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terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: | 
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i spent sunday afternoon hacking parts and doing some fabricating. i spent this evening finishing up the fabrication. i should have all the parts painted and put together tomorrow after i get home from work. i took some pics along the way. look under "t-20 split" on my pic page.
ill finish taking pics tomorrow as i finish the final assembly.
http://photos.yahoo.com/th3mud |
mudbug1
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Terry,,,I am very interested to know how your current project works out,,since the majority of the people on this forum board, seem to think that what you have now done, to your stock T-20 shift linkage, will not be of any great benefit over the way the factory originally designed it.
I did talk to man one time though, who had modified his Max II shift linkage exactly the way you have modified yours now. He also told me that he was VERY happy with the end results! He said he really liked his new shift set up ,and would not be going back to the stock Max shifting linkage set up any time soon.
Yes, maybe in the majority of the applications that a person would use a Max for,the stock shift linkage set up would work just fine, but,I can also think of "certain situations" where a "modified" shift linkage set up,,like the one you have now designed ,,,would be greatly appreciated when the time comes
that it would be needed.
Please keep us all imformed how your current project works out,and the places you can now take your Max IV,,that before you made this modification, that you could not! |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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i finished the project tonight. while i had the floor out i made some floor supports like the ones in the new max iv. no more saggy front floor pan.
i took it for a test ride and the first thing i noticed is that it takes alot of grunt to start off with the tranny split. i tried to spin in a circle and had trouble getting started. after i got the thing going it just kept getting faster. i was spinning so fast i thought it might flip over. but laugh! oh man, that was fun! that one spin was well worth the time i spent on it. it also drills nice holes in the ground with islands in the middle. |
Howard Hoover
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Terry, Is it necessary to have four shifters for this modification or can you do it with just two?
Your pictures look good but it says there is 33 of them but it only shows 21 do you have more that you haven't posted yet? |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Howard, Check Terry's pictures again. If you will examine them all, you will see that there are only two shifter levers (those two long things are steering levers (or laterals). Also, if you will count the pictures you will ndeed come up with 33 (several have 17 in the description). |
Louisiana Mudbug
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Terry Harrison,
Since you have now taken the plunge and modified your stock Max shifting linkage,I am most curious as to what you are now able to do with your Max that you were not able to before? |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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howard,
there are only 2 as fred said, and i renumbered the pictures to avoid any confusion.
david,
for one, i can spin in circles and laught till i wet my pants.
the second thing i can now do is change gears on a hill without having to use the foot brake. by leaving one side in gear, i will always have brake on that side, forward or reverse.
when blazing trails, i come into situations where being able to turn around in my tracks makes it eaiser to get out of a tight spot.
it is also easier to shift. to back up i only put in one side and clutch the other, if one side wont go in, instead of rocking, i just put in the other side. there will always be one side that will go in. heck...just having the option to split shift is cool, it adds to the fun. when my buddy split shifts his, he can back up and pull forward without stopping or shifting by clutching the opposite side when moving in that direction. i havnt tried that yet. ill do some riding this weekend and ill know alittle more about the capabilities and advantages of the split. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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terry,
glad to see mods on max, if it can't be modified i don't want it either.
2 question: excuse my ignorance , but does this mod allow 1 side of t-20 to run backwards and the other to run forwards????????
allowing counter rotating turns???????
shane |
Bob Eells
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Terry,
Would your set-up work in a maxII. I'm not sure if the stick configuration is the same or not. Maybe you know. If so would you be willing to make a kit for us guy's that are not quite as talented to fabricate this set-up? I would be able too follow directions to install it with out too much difficulty. I was looking at your pics and it seems to be a really nice installation. One thing that is very annoying about the T-20 is it is sometimes a pain in the *#$$*&*$ to shift!! I have been stuck a couple of times when it decided to not shift.Thanks!! |
Howard Hoover
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Yeah I forgot about the forward and reverse lever I thought it was a picture of new steering levers that I was looking at I guess I had a brain fart
and I did see all the pics thanks. |
Louisiana Mudbug
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Terry Harrison,
I think the shift linkage modification, that you have now done to your Max,,will serve you well in the coming months, when you use your Max for hunting or pleasure.
Please continue to keep us all imformed about your Max,and what it is now capable of, and also, the extreme places it will now go,and get out of too.
I am curious,,,do you now have to come to a complete stop,when you turn to the right or the left. Has this modification that you made to your Max,s shift linkage, made turning while moving better or worse? |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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shane,
yes.
bob,
my friend has a max ii and he said it was much easier to split his max ii than what i had to go through to split my mav iv. if i need to, i can take pics of his and e-mail them to you or post them with my stuff. send me a e-mail & let me know what you want. harrison@magnolia-net.com
each max is alittle different. the parts would have to be custom fitted. the reason i say this is because the measurments i got from another split max iv didnt work on mine. it got me close but i still had to change it.
mudbug,
the thing still turns as it did before. what i was talking about when i said my friend could go forward and backward without changing gears was when the t-20 is split shifted one bank of tires is in forward and the other bank is in reverse. by clutching the reverse side and mashing the throttle the side in forward moves the max forward but not in a straight line, because only one side is driving. it slowly turns to the clutched side. then by clutching the forward bank and pulling on the reverse side you can back up, but it would slowly turn to the clutched side. you couldnt drive around like this for obvious reasons. it is just a different way you can maneuver with the split t-20. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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terry,
please post the max2 pics to richard so he can put them on r6x6 so we can all see them.
shane. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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guys / fellow builders,
i just got a great idea,
what if you put stronger springs loded in the forward position and extended the shift levers on the max to be foot operated to shift one side to reverse so you didn't haveto take hands of stix.
shane |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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shane,
i sent some pics of my max iv to richard a while back and he has not posted them yet. it could be a long time before you got to see the max ii pics if i sent them to him. i think ill post them on my page so you can see them as soon as i get them. i will also send some to richard so when he does decide to post pics again he will have them too. my friend also has duals he puts on his max iv and his max ii. i called him last night and he said he would let me know next time he puts them on so i could come over and take some pics for ya'll to see.
i dont understand where you are putting the stiffer springs for the mod you have thought up. i can see the foot operated shifter, but why the springs and where? a rocker pedal like a foot shift on some motorcycles, mounted forward on the floor could work.
how about a hand brake, like on 4-wheelers, mounted on the left steering lateral? it would take some fabricating to get the calipers to fit, and one would have to remove the brake handle from the steering lateral any time one wanted to check the fluid level , but it might be worth it. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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terry,
thanks for pics when posted.
yeah i like the idea of duels, pics thanks.
i don't have a max, but know enough of the inner workings to comment that's why i thought this up.
max has spring assistance to push stix / laterals forward ( i think ),if then make em there,
my idea was to replace them with stronger springs and load them in the forward position ( to hard to explain i think).
just muck around with removable stuff till you get it right.
and then use left and right foot pedals to levers to push to select reverse on 1 side or the other without fully coming to a stop.
the 4 wheelers hand brake idea is great but would your hand be strong enought to select with this small lever? maybe make a larger lever based on 4 wheelers ( i knew they 4x4's wern't compleatly useless ) he.he.
shane. |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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shane,
i was talking about a hand brake for the max like the hand brake on a wheeler. replace the max cable operated calipers with the hydraulic calipers from the wheeler. mount the brake handle, virtical, on the left lateral.
the lateral's spring load can be increased by adjusting the eye bolts that the springs are attached to, but that would cause an increase in operator fatigue.
the need to shift right before stopping, to avoid hard shifting, is elimnated by splitting the t-20. one side will always line up. trying to shift while moving could be risky, sounds like it would increase the chance of grinding or breaking something.
i did some looking tonight and i think i found a way to install a jackshaft, so i can easily change the gear raito when ever i want, with little trouble, but alittle messy.
changing the driven sheave to a larger one will put the belt too close to the bottom of the tub and the belt will get wet any time any water gets in.
changing the output sprockets on the t-20 to smaller ones will cause some power handleing problems, i think. the ones on there now are about as small as it can stand. any smaller and the sprockets might split under heavy load.
changing the axle sprockets to larger ones will put the chains on the floor to pick up trash and wear holes in the floor.
the option of going to a smaller tire is out of the question.
moving the engine over and installing a small transmission is possible but i dont want to move the engine, but, knowing i will have several gears would be really cool. low, super low and super grunt! yea!, that might be worth the effort. the jackshaft would be so much eaiser, but, changing sprockets would be messy. i just wish i could have my cake and eat it too. |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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bob,
i tried to reply to your e-mail but the e-mail i sent was returned twice. so...
ill get some pics and post them for you to look at. i havent looked at the max ii set-up yet, but i was told it is real easy and could be done in one afternoon. after i post the pics and you get a look at what it takes, if you still think you dont want to try the mod for yourself let me know and ill see if i can put together a kit for you. |
Bob Eells
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Terry,
I checked my e-mail service provider and they are temporarily out of service due to an equiptment failure. I can send but not receive e-mails. Should be repaired by late sunday afternoon they say. I am interested in the pictures however you want to do it.Thanks!!
ps.
I read your post about horsepower through a T-20 and from my experiences wathching the NATVA races back in the early 1970's I do believe that some of the racing Attex machines with the 500 cc motors that were modified for racing were putting out upwards of 100 HP. Those machines down right boogied!! They weren't good for regular use though like trail riding. Maybe some of the "Old Timers" know for sure. Maybe Richard Clark has some info on this subject since he is in the business. I do remember that Max made a limited production machine called the "black max" that had a all black upper body and a very potent 2 cycle twin that was quite a handful to operate. They didn't make too many of these and I think this was Max's attempt to run with the high powered Attex's at that time. I often wondered if any of the black maxes are still around. Oh well take care and am looking forward to seeing your pictures. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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bob, black max wow.
terry, from your post jan 16,
sorry for late reply, there isn't a lot of room left in themax for mods.
seems like you've don the most that's possable allready, oh well.
maybe try a t-20 from a machiene that's no longer in production, swamp fox, hussler, ??? anything that had a low power out put engine is bound to have a more powerful gear ratio,
and if it's a t-20 then chances are it will fit without too much installation hassle , and it shuld perform simmilar to the t-20 you have just more power and a little less speed.
and you should be able todo the t-20 split with it too.
or like others say more powerfull engine.
if you'r rich / mad you could put a blower on it this is bound to increase the power up to 50% more.
then in hills you need more power because of the thinner air ,it's been said before but:
an engine at sea level with 100hp will only in the rockies mountains have about 50hp,
if you put a blower on it 100hp again .
this is only an example i think 50hp is enough for a 6x6 , 8x8, unless it's twice the weight than the max, argo s.
shane |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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shane,
i thought that an engine build up on a kohler command was immpossible until i finally found someone that has high performance parts, and i mean high performance. they do it all from custom cams and stroker motors to super flow carbs and custom heads. but it aint cheap. i talked to ri again today and decided to try the stall kit for the clutch before i dropped a wad of money, i dont have, on parts, i cant afford. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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terry,
good idea , no point in having a really powerfull engine , if the problem is in the driveline, or somewhere else.
shane |
6x6aatv
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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I think this is an awesome great idea.
I got some pics from a guy who had a split on a Max II. It was sold on E-bay a year or so back and I had him send me the pics of the split but I cannot find them right now.
I have a Max IV and I can tell you that being able to "spin" would be a great advantage when you need to "power out" of some ruts. Whether it be deeper snow or mud, being able to drive both sides in opposite directions will be a huge advantage.
I have only had my IV for about 3 months and have been thinking about splitting it.
Thanks for the great post and pics.
I will post the pics of the Max II split when I find them.
I will also post some pics of my oil filter mod.
Later, David |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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one thing about the split...... when you splitshift, the max iv does not want to start spinning right off. it will just sit there and bog the motor if you dont clutch it and let the revs build up first. on slick ground it will take off and spin so fast you will think it will flip over, and you better hold on and try not to pass out from laughing too hard. in loose ground it does ok, but on grass or other hard surfaces it will not start spinning from idle. im working on setting mine up to spin from idle, weather it be from gear reduction, increased clutch stall rpm, or more horsepower. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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terry,
you'r right higher stall clutch will work.
shane |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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i finally got the pics of the max II split shifter. it looks very easy to do the mod. the fella that did the split said it only took an hour to complete. the max IV took days.
i havent used it much so far but i must say the split was well worth the days i spent completing the modification.
on trail rides when everyone bunches up because of a hole the quads have to winch across, the kids come calling wanting to ride. the spinning in circles thing is basically all they want to do. which is fine with me... it keeps me from having to pull winch line or help push the quads across the hole. that is one sure way to get wet and muddy. now that i have a max my wet and muddy days are pretty much over.
bob, i tried to send the pics to you but your mail is down again. i posted a new topic with a link to my pic page where the pics can be seen. look under "max ii split" |
Bob Eells
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Terry,
Thanks for the pictures. You are right about this being very easy and a straight forward modification. I can't believe I did'nt see this for myself. I guess I could'nt "see the forest for the trees" so to speak. Iam going out to the shop and do this today. Thanks again!!!! Keep spinnin them donuts!!! Bob. |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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mudbug1,
i went on a ride sunday and was able to do somethings that i could not have done without having a split t-20.
it was getting dark as a quad went through a deep hole and got water in his carb. because the trail was narrow there was not much room between the quad and the trees. i was able to pull into the narrow space beside the quad, splitshift, and spin so my lights would light up the card for some quick work to get the carb drained and the quad running again. having to winch a dead grizzly sideways in the trail to allow lights to shine on the carb would not have been as easy. maneuvering in tight spots is where the split t-20 really pays off.
i also used the ability to hold the brake on an incline while i shifted one side into reverse so i could reposition myself to get a drink out of a cooler on the back another atv. i was able to back up beside the cooler with only one side in reverse by clutching the forward side as i backed up. these may seem like small things, but its really nice to be able to do them. |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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bob,
yes, it is easier than i expected. i wish the max iv would have been as easy.
one thing about the donuts.... dont spin too long in one place, if you do, you may need a winch. i was by myself, in a sandy soil clearing, with nothing to winch to when i learned this. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Terry, You have convinced me that a split T-20 would be nice to have. I still would want it with both levers together so that they could be locked as one shifter most of the time. I would want to have to push a button or something to get them to shift independently. Couldn't what you did be done by cutting one shift lever in half (the shifter lever would have to be a solid piece (couldn't be pipe) but I think factory issue is solid - isn't it?)? Would spring loaded be a help or hinderance?
Maybe if it could be a fool proof system that would make getting hung up and not able to shift a thing of the past, RI would adopt it and incorporate it into future Max. The fact that you could keep part of the tranny in gear when getting off a hill would be worth it in my mind.
I'm getting to old and spent too much of my life going in circles to want to be able to spin in place, but the other stuff interests me. |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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fred,
the shifters are made out of hollow stock. im not sure how you would use the springs on the shifters, i dont see how they would help. most of the time i shift the t-20 one side at a time, a lock would just get in the way. with my set-up, if i want, i can tighten the lock nuts on the allthread that runs through the inside of the shifters so the shifters are bound together by the force applied by the tighting of the nuts. this will enable me to shift both levers with one hand. in order to split shift would require extra force to seperate the shifters.
i think a locking shifter set-up, like you want, would be difficult to fabricate and difficult to operate.
on the fabrication side:
it would require a complete redesign of the shifters and shift shaft to allow both shifters to be located side by side, which may cause an issue with clearance for the shift rods, would require disassembly of the steering componets to make room to work, and would take 3 to 4 times the effort to fabricate. it could be done but imo will just complicate both the fabrication and the operation of the shifters.
on the operation side:
having both shifters side by side would require one to switch hands or cross arms to shift in some situations. fumbling with a shifter lock, in the dark, with one arm under the other is not only awkward but time consuming. the set-up like mine, having the shift levers next to their steering lateral, makes a user friendly set-up with ease of hand placement and simplicity of operation. the only thing to remember is not to pull both shifters out of gear at the same time. this defeats the purpose of having the split, and could leave you between gears, rocking just like old times. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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OK Terry, I think I have it figured out using your system. On your anchor pipe (pivot point of the shift levers) where the two levers meet - on one shift lever, put a notch and on the other put a grove. Shorten up your anchor pipe so a spring can go on the outer side of each lever. The levers would be locked together and either lever would shift both side together. To split shift, one would have to slide the shifter to the left just a little or the right just a little (depending on side) to release the grove/notch lock. If one wanted it to always be split shift, put a washer type spacer between the two shifters negating the notch and groove lock. I would make the spacer slotted so it could be inserted or taken out without dismantling.
The main problem that I have with the split shifters is fear that one or both sides will not be fully engaged and internal (expensive ) damage will occur. I have had several people tell me their tranny has popped out of gear (scaring the heck out of them) when in fact, they just didn't have it fully engaged. You know that you can feel it click when it is fully engaged and it cannot pop out of gear, but if it is just partially engaged (using 1/4 or less of the gear face, it will work and appear right, but it isn't. The gears will hold up for a while abused like that, but at some point, there will be an expensive rebuild required. Also, the way I use a max, there are only a handful of situations that I would want to be able to split shift. I back out of the shop, back it onto the truck and go to wherever I am going to be using it. From the time I drive it off the truck, the only time I use reverse is to show the customer that it does back up (and show them how to go in reverse)and to back it back on the truck. I also always park in reverse with the nose of the machine pointed up hill. Granted, every now and then, I will encounter a situation that I want to back out of, but usually I will want to back straight out having equal power to both sides.
What do you think, is my idea doable? |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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fred,
i think your idea would work, but i dont think the slot washer would stay put (what would keep the washer from rotating around with the slot in the upward position causing the washer to fall out?). there needs to be a matching set of notch and groove, 180 degrees apart, to even the load exerted on the notch when its not seated in the groove. be sure to make the notch large enough to prevent premature wear. it will take some trial and error to find the correct length for the shifter anchor pipe/spring combination and notch size. when the anchor pipe is shortened and does not go through the frame rails the 3/4" allthread will flop around in the frame rail holes. a bushing (1/4" or 1/8" piece of anchor pipe) will need to be installed to keep the allthread snug in the frame. the bushing can be held in place by two washers on either side of the frame.... something like this, from left to right: locknut,washer,bushing(through frame),washer,spring(slipped over allthread),washer,shifter anchor pipe(left side), shifter anchor pipe(right side), and so on. i can see this in my head, this will work.
when you get tired of the lock just take the shifter apart and install a washer between the shifter anchor pipes. after you have the split completed and use it for a while you will see that the lock is unnecessary and a hassle. you will realize that the split shifter lessens the chance of partial gear engagement that is mostly caused by the single shift lever to begin with. soon your fears of internal (expensive) damage will dissapear and be replaced with the joy of knowing you are using your t-20 to its fullest potential. |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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one more thing.... the poeple you talk to that had their tranny pop out of gear had a single shifter, right? what do most of us do when it wont go into gear and the rocking is not working? the only thing left to do is bump the throttle. well guess what... one side is partially engaged and the other side is not engaged at all. let the gear grinding begin! imo having a lock on the shifters is preventing the ability to operate the shifters independently, defeating one of the purposes of having split shifters.
the ability to operate the shifters one at a time is an advantage when just shifting from forward to reverse. by shifting one at a time, if one will not fall into place, put it back and shift the other, because, it will go. then, while applying pressure to the one that will not go into gear, bump the throttle and it will fall in also, without a fuss, nice and smooth. being able to shift like this is what helps lessen the chance of partial gear engagement. with the shifters locked together, you are left rocking the boat to get it in gear when you should have taken advantage of the split to begin with.
if you do well with fabricating, the split can be your dealer installed option. "yes old so and so from the next state, or ri for that matter, can sell you a max II for alittle less but do they offer the th3 split option like i do? say, do you have kids? they will love this... hop in" (ok...you can leave off the th3). as easy as the max ii split is you may want to consider increasing you profit margin with that option. from what i have been reading you guys need any advantage you can get over the factory anyway. because the max II is so easy, i suggest that you split a max II first to see what having a split t-20 is all about before you invest all that time doing r&d on a not so easy max iv locked split. |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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i have had the split t-20 for a while now and i really enjoy it. i dont see how i got by without it. it was well worth the time i spent on it.
i finaly took the max to the dealer to get the spring kit for the drive and driven clutch, i bought last year, installed. the kit will give me a higher stall (2200rpm i think) for more low end power. we'll see. |
Vaughn
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Terry please let all of us know how the new clutch kit works. |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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i finally got around to taking my max iv over to eldorado to get the clutch kit installed and to get a few other things done that i dont have time to do: the fluids and filters changed(engine/tranny), the plastic(cracked) throttle changed out to the metal throttle, split collars installed around the sprockets(insurance for the long run), chains adjusted/lubed, and a full grease job.
while they were working on it they found two of the bolts holding the tranny to the frame were sheared off on the right side and the two left side bolts were loose and wallowing out the holes in the frame. i remember feeling a chatter but thought it was the bands, i didnt know it was the tranny shifting around. i could have done some serious damage if the other two bolts had broken off. keep in mind i only have around 50 hours on the 2002 machine. ri uses grade 5 bolts instead of grade 8 and to make matters worse the bolts are threaded all the way to the head. they also loc tite the bolts into the tranny housing making it extremely difficult to remove the broken bolt left in the housing. if you have a max iv and you drive aggressive(or even if you dont), you better check your tranny bolts. their fix is to weld a 3/8" plate to the frame to increase the thickness of the frame area where the bolts go thru and use grade 8 bolts with an unthreaded shank at the head to ride in the frame insuring a tight fit. im also having an additional support installed to the top/rear of the tranny that will bolt at the top of the tranny and weld solid at the frame behind the tranny. i noticed that he keeps a stack of fabricated repair plates for the frame on the shelf along with a patteren for the additional rear support. they have seen this before on other max ivs that are driven hard.
they did get half the clutch kit installed on the drive clutch and lined it up with a another 900t for a comparison. off the line it pulled out in front by a length and top end it continued to pull ahead. it had the other machine by three lengths before ending the run. he said it was a nice addition and he couldnt wait to install the spring on the driven clutch to see how it would do.
it will be this weekend or early next week before i get it back. i cant wait. i still have to change out the small battery for a big marine battery and finish the pontoon project before duck season gets here. i finished the pontoons but i still have to finish the fabrication of the removable brackets and mounting hardware. oh, and i still have to install a bilge pump or two. |
terry harrison (Th3)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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i got the max back yesterday and went for a short test ride today. the clutch springs make a big difference. before the spring kit if i split the tranny and tried a doughnut in the grass i would have to roll forward alittle to help the tires break loose so it would spin, if i didnt the motor would just bog and the tires would not move. now with the spring kit installed the motor doesnt bog but it will smoke the belt (the tires still wont break loose from a stand still in the grass). off the line acceleration is much better and it pulls harder under full throttle. the only thing is the engine rpm may be too high for putting around on the trail. im going to drive it like it is through duck season and if i cant get use to the higher rpm then i may remove the red driven clutch spring and put the stock green spring back in or try a different combination of springs till i get the rpm down a bit. after a short 30 min. ride, from what i gathered, 2200rpm seems just a bit high. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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grate job terry.
you'r work is going to advance the 6x6 industry if they take notice.
i hope some one also reads this that can help me.
i have invented a drive system that has instant forward reverse and brake both sides split and it behaves (performs) like a hydrostatic unit.
it has no oil / fluid.
so you can be going forward hit reverse on 1 side do a 180 degree turn then go or hit reverse on both sides and go backwards in the direction you were previously going forwards.
all without stopping to change gears.
you could go up a small steep slope and if you were about to flip just hit reverse and go down instantly.
no rolling over.
you can't do this in a 6x6 that you have to stop to change gears in.
it would have the same top speed as max/argo has due to it's mekenicle make up.
and no oil or liquids to burn you.
it would have normal revs like you'r max/argo and you just hit the throttle when you need the power (i,e, no continueus high revs like hydrostatic usully has).
i origionally thought it up when i found an engine we could use in these (it's light and powerfull) called the tesla turbine.
which my 8x8 will have when i eventully make it.
i know i can make 1 for myself as all the parts are "off the shelf" (allready in use in cars etc.)
the only thing stopping me is money for bearings, sprokets, chains, wheels, steel.
but i will get there eventully.
as for production to sell:
i won't let the cat out of the bag untill it's patented / or i'm 60 and don't need the money anymore.(i'm 32 now so that's a long wait.)
any company thinking of making one by guess work, forget it all the parts have been in existance in cars trucks and tractors for around 40 years and noone has thought of it yet.
but dont have the funds to patent and/or make them.
these units could be installed into max or argo's (new and old) if i got past the money problem.
and yes i would let a company make it (paying me a fee of course).
any seggestions anyone.
ps i'm in australia.
shane forsythe. |
Howard Hoover
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Shane, I was just wondering if you got my email I sent you about your trans idea?
Thanks Howard Hoover |
terry harrison (Th3)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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i spent some time behind the sticks yesterday, about 3 hours worth. i covered 6 miles of trail looking for ducks and didnt find any to speak of, but i did learn a bit more about the clutch kit. with both the drive clutch springs and the driven clutch spring installed, easing down the trail rpm is too high. rpm is also too high for easing around in the water. its great for racing or real aggressive driving. i pushed it to the limit running wide open down the trail through mud holes and drifting around fallen logs and stump holes, it really pulls hard comming out of mud holes. i am impressed with the difference the kit made. it reaches top speed quicker, it accellerates harder off the line, it recovers speed quicker when you get back in the throttle, it makes it feel like a race wheeler. its great, in fact its too great, its more than i wanted. i burned alot of gas and most of the time i have passengers and cant drive like that. i have yet to put it in deep, boggy muck mud to see how it reacts compared to the stock spring set. at this point i would not recommend both sets of springs unless you run tracks, pull heavy loads or plan on racing.
after duck season i plan on reinstalling half of the stock springs but leaving in the red driven spring. i hope this will lower the rpm somewhat at engagment but retain the delayed shift pattern. |
Greg Lawrence (Greglawrence)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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terry where you at concerning your duck situation? wed and sat my partner and I shot 12 gadwall each day. 4 limits. Its a decent start to our season, but Im sure theyll be gone this weekend... |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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howard yes ,about my 6x6 trans.
i only check e-mail about once a week as i use an internet kiosk.
to all.
featutes: forward, brake, reverse,/ forward to reverse wothout braking.
*full split each side.
*progressive power on(ease the power on /or full).
*no planetry gears.
*common parts + 2 parts fabricated per side (easy for home handyman.
*easy to build /fix.
*100hp no oil (only bearings to grease)
*light
cost:if you can weld $300.australian dollars(500american)complete.
design:it has 1 input shaft and 2out like a max(if you can compare it.)
gears:you can put a box for hi and low on the input shaft and a belt/chain and torque converter if you wanted. (but these are not needed and add unessacery weight).
power: it can be built small for a 6x6 100horse power, or
bigger to handle any hp that's required of it.
so if some nut wants to make a 6x6 with grader tyres or from earth moving equiptment they can.
size: my trans is about 2x the size of a t-20.
reliabilaty: it has a back up system built in , so you can get home without affecting performance.
if a part breaks (unlikly)you will hear it.
it could be replaced by a home handyman within 2 hours.
parts: will need to be replaced after 3 years but they are only the cost of normal bearings.
it has bearings that need greasing, but needs no oil (or teflon etc.)
hope this helps
can anyone help with patent money or another idea to get this made without me being ripped of.
i had an idea of selling plans but still need some way to stop a company from copying it.
any ideas?
thanks shane. |
terry harrison (Th3)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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felsenthal national wildlife refuge @ crossett arkansas. how about you?
i talked to a few who killed some gadwall too. mostly before 8am, then nothing the rest of the day. we have a cool front coming thanksgiving, i hope that will push some greenheads our way. |
Greg Lawrence (Greglawrence)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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yeah very few greenheads here yet.. 2 more limits of gadwall and two wigeon on sat. @ a nwr here.. but its about a 3 mile walk in and 3 mile walk out.. thats where the birds be at though. shot a banded gadwall sat too.. this last front blew in some wigeon too. heh I have a lease that is 18320 ac. and i shot 3 ringnecks there a few weeks ago, some of the other guys shot a couple of geese and 2 ducks so far. we have rice fields and rye grass.. Im killing birds in the salt water marsh. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 306
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 199.246.2.9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 10:53 pm: |
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Message to Terry Harrison. The last that I remember reading regarding your "split the T20 cases" project was that you were having trouble keeping your T20 bolted to the frame. Do you now have the system working reliably-especially in the Max IV? W. Philip Cox |
Bob Eells
New member
Username: Reells
Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 72.35.50.20
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 09:39 pm: |
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Philip,
I split my T-20 last year in my maxII. I have had absolutely no problems at all. It was a very simple procedure on a max II. As I recall Terry had done it on a max IV without to much difficulty. In fact I contacted Terry a couple of times before I did it. I haven"t seen Terry post here for a long time. Hope he's still 6-wheeling. |
Mike Maroni
Advanced Member
Username: Micmac
Post Number: 121
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 204.188.172.194
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 10:14 pm: |
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I think I saw Terry's max iv on ebay a wile back but I could be wrong |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 308
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 199.246.2.9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 07:56 pm: |
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Thanks Bob. So we know that the modification can be made to work reliably. That,s the important part. Terry said that it was a much more involved process to modify the Max iv. He posted pictures of the mods as he did them, It was beyond my abilities but I was hoping that there might be enough interest that someone would offer it as a kit. I am supposed to be selling my Max but the split cases would be hard for me to resist! W. Philip Cox Maybe Terry is somewhere, still spinning in circles! |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 314
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 199.246.2.9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 04:30 pm: |
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Great news, Our friend Terry Harrison answered my "e" mail-- He is still 6 wheeling--still using his split T-20 and other than rolling over or busting a bearing his machine and he are fine! W.Philip Cox -- He calls his riding style " balls to the walls" I like that. |
TH3
Member
Username: Th3
Post Number: 38
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 4.131.73.141
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 10:57 am: |
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im still around.
my maxIV was not on e-bay.
i dont think you will see a kit for split shifting the maxIV. each maxIV is different enough that a fit all kit would be a nightmare. besides the t-20 in the maxIV WILL COME LOOSE when you start split shifting it. with the split shift mods the t-20 will have to be boxed in on the frame. after i split mine and started using it the t-20 came loose from the frame shearing the mounting bolts off inside the case. plates were added to increase the thickness of the frame and the mounting bolt was increased up to the next size. after putting more hours on the meter the t-20 twisted out of the frame again. more braces were built and the frame was boxed in under the t-20. this last time i busted a bearing but thought the t-20 came out again. after taking everything apart the t-20 was still in place(thank god) but a rear inside bearing had exploded-pieces of grease covered bearing all over the place. evidently that bearing was not "balls to the wall" proof.
on the other hand, a maxII is very easy to split and the t-20 is mounted different in the frame from the maxIV so split shifting doesnt twist the t-20 out of the frame like on the maxIV. ive got some pics of a split maxII t-20 posted on here somewhere. |
isaac eisenman
New member
Username: Tropicjungleboy
Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 201.224.139.175
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 11:39 am: |
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terry:
according with your last post t-20 hold the extra torque but frame or bearings on the max ix won't. so no useful reason to get split t-20 funtion on max ix unless to get broke down on noman's land. |
TH3
Member
Username: Th3
Post Number: 39
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 4.131.79.16
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 03:59 pm: |
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isaac,
each time the t-20 broke loose from the frame i was able to drive the max back to the truck. when a bolt breaks the t-20 will shift around letting you know something is wrong but will still be secure enough to drive back if care is taken. my max has never left me stranded. knowing how much it has been modified and how its driven, this is very impressive to me.
i have talked with my max dealer/mechanic about what is happening and we came to the conclusion that the frame flex it too much for the way the t-20 is mounted in the frame when the tires are counter rotated. the mounting bolts first come loose then the t-20 starts shifting around eventually breaking the mounting bolts and/or letting the bolts back completely out of the t-20 case. the forward mounted brace supports that connect from the top of the t-20 case forward to the frame act as a pry bar on the case adding additional force to the load applied to the t-20 mounting bolts. after welding a c brace to the rear of the frame that connects to the top of the case, i removed the forward mounted brace supports, eventually completely boxing in the frame under the case eliminating any frame flex around the t-20. now if any thing happens it is suspected that the frame will have to break ahead of the boxed in area before the t-20 will come loose again.
dealer/mechanic said the RI bearings sometimes just give up because they are cheap/small. he has seen the same bearings give up on unmodified machines. besides, during the last ride i stood the machine up on its back in a violent manner, possibly landing hard enough on one axle to crush that bearing. there is a very good possibility that the bearing failure was not related to the split shifting. and yes it made it back to the truck with a destroyed bearing without chewing up the chains or sprockets, i drove slow and only turned when it wasnt popping. alot of stick work to keep it from popping and a slow go but doable.
to try to answer your question as best as i can..... to split a maxIV without modifying the way the t-20 is mounted, in time you very well could "get broke down on noman's land". |
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