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Bryan Perry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: | 
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I know this has been covered before; but I have some specific questions. I have narrowed my search to the 2 Argo 8 wheeled machines. Mainly because I Duck hunt and routinely there are 4 of us going with all our gear and decoys in tow.
1.If the Response is loaded to the max, will the 18 b/s engine turn this vehicle in high range or in deep mud? I hear it has trouble. Is the Conquest better?
2.Is the 18 hp motor the most powerful engine that Argo will put in the response? Why don't they have engine upgrades?
3.We hunt around beaver dams with lots of beaver stakes and some submerged stumps and rocks. Is the skid plate on the Conquest necessary? I hear its a $400 option on the Response.
4.Have any Conquest owners had any problems with the 20 hp Kawasaki engine? i.e. with the radiator or fan? Does the engine driven fan just eat up the 2 additional hp that this engine has?
5.What are the bearing extensions that come on the Conquest and do I really need them?
6.Do most people like the Goodyear Runamuck tires or do they replace them with more agressive pattered tires? We hunt a lot of marsh and slough with deep mud hear in Oklahoma.
7.Is the Conquest worth the additional $1700 in up front cost we it comes to ressale value? |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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Briggs. Lighter, simpler under the hood. Has pull start.
Conquest, sophisticated. Charging system mimimal, may need alternator kit. No pull start.
The effort to turn an argo 8 is more related to the transmission design. Driving style is the answer. The trick is to get the belt engaged before turning, That means give throttle and wait till the vehicle moves an inch before using the brake levers.
It's nice to have the extra layer of material as a skid plate. Not that you would ever go through the hull, but when you scrape and drag the bottom it's nice to know the plate is taking punishment. Have it factory installed if you get the response.
Bearing extensions come/are available on the 4 end axles. Most important for axle support when you stretch tracks around them.
The rumamuks look wimpy, but I have driven my response with them anywhere the rawhides go. The runamuks also give the best ride, and are sized to wrap tracks around the argo 8's.
What part of the state are you in, I'm in Tulsa.
The response has at least 2 different final drive ratios, via different model transmissions. The Conquest may have then too. If you are going to load heavy, the lower one may be for you. I have it, the distributor and dealer convinced me I'd need it it for high altitude use with tracks. |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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Brian, good questions. For the tires, i know that the runnasucks (yes, I mean runnasucks not runnamucks)don't like mud very much. They don't catch the mud very well. Rawhide 3 tires may be better but I have also heard that they are shit in the water. The skid plate is a great option and worth the money. The underside of my ARGO is scratched and marked to hell on the skid plate and if it wasn't there, their would be no underbody. As for the resale value, I think that it is pretty close to the response. They are both good machines and since the conquest is the highest model, it is likely the best one in terms of quality.
In my argo magnum, the 18 hp engine does have some difficulty when heavily loaded and throttle opened. You will notice a power and or speed reduction overall. The way I think of it is like this: in a car, towing a heavy trailor, you have to accelerate much harder than usual to compensate for the weight. In the argo, if the throttle is already fully opened, you can't compensate so it is slower but you can rely on it to get you there. (my argo anyways)
Hopefully this helps |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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In addition to my last post, your best option is to test both vehicles and test each ones capabilities and other considering factors and decide based on that. Personally I like the looks of the response better but I think the conquest is probably a better machine |
Bryan Perry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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Roger S., I live in OKC. What dealer did you use?
Have you had any problems with the Response? I'm leaning toward the Conquest since if I need put a skid plate on the response; they're less than $1000 dollars dfference in cost to have the "top of the line".
David K., I'll likely tryout the runnamucks first and if they don't do the job I'll buy a set of tires from Richard C.
Do most dealers come off the list price for these machines? Buying one at list is like paying MSRP for a car. There has to be a large mark-up in this line of vehicles.
Thanks for the responses! (pardon the pun!)
Bryan |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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I got a post card from a guy in, I think, Edmond who is a Dealer. I would go to Argo's web site and find the Distributor for us. Gene is his first name, he's in Iowa if I remember right. E-mail him and ask for OKC area dealers. He can also answer any and all questions about the 8's. |
Bryan Perry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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I test drove both a Response and a Conquest yesterday. They are both impressive machines. Surprisingly, the Conquest was quite a bit slower than the Response and had less punch off the line (my brother and I drag raced them). The dealer could not explain this difference in performance to me. Maybe the Conquest had the low ratio transmission as discussed above. However, one would expect if that was the case, then the Conquest would have a large advantage off the line and would be over taken on the high end. Anyone know why the Conquest seemed to have less power? These were both brand new machines.
The Conquest is quieter but this isn't a huge deal to me.
I am thinking about getting the Advange Wetlands camo. Does anyone know how durable this is?
What brand and size winch comes with the Argo winch kit? |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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The camo is just a print on the hdpe. It should be just as durable as the rest of the body. It is hard crap and doesn't break easily, trust me, I have driven in to rocks with very sharp edges on them and driven away wiht only a tiny scratch. |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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bryan,
the conquest is geared lower on the jackshafts I believe. The reason could be many. on a response, you can tweak the governor and get quit a few more rpms. the briggs comes off the line about 3600 rpms, mine is know at 4200 rpms and it is a totally different machine. the difference was unbelievable expecially with top end speed. tire pressure could be it to, though it shouldn't make much difference. responses and conquests are 5 to 7 miles per hour slower than the 6 wheel conterpart. my bet is that you are a better driver than your brother. See if the dealer tweaked the governor on the response.
the winch kit is a 2500 lb. superwinch, But if I were you I would just buy the winch bracket and buy a warn at cabelas or someplace for half the price the dealer will charge you, plus you will get a better quality winch.
you can raise the rpm on a conquest from what a few have told me but i do not know a hole lot about kawasaki motors. I would only buy the conquest if you wanted lots of heat in the winter time, i.e. the heater kit. briggs are cheaper to maintain and alittle more simple to work on. however the motor is quieter than the briggs so if you put a top on it and a windshield, noise will matter also. the tops hold in alot of noise from the engine and drivetrain. noise is better than cold and wet though. I would also make sure you are using a reputable dealer that is going to be around in a couple years when you need something. the dealer should know and be able to tell you about gearing, and overall operation of the drive train. Does this dealer service what he sells? that is clue number one. I spent alot of time on the phone with my dealer restoring my 82 and with just general questions when I bought my bigfoot 5 years ago, and from that I have learned to take apart and put back together most any argo with no problem. a good dealer is important. |
Bryan Perry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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Argogeru,
When you say the briggs comes off the line at 3600, you mean the assembly line; right? How do you tweak the govenor? If you could get an additional 600 rpms out of that engine safely (without harm to the engine), I can see how that would be an advantage in top end speed. I don't think the dealer had tweaked the governor on the response.
I have decided to buy the response for a number of reasons: no perceived power difference, price, simplicity, ability to pullstart. |
Red Wolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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Hey, does anyone know of a cross over number for my oil filter? (Argo Conquest 20hp kawasaki eng.)
Something maybe in a Fram or similar filter? Thanks..... |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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bryan,
good choice, the governor spring is conected to the linkage of the carburator, you simply bend the flange back just a little, and then i would check the rpms with a tac..
odg sends these machines off the line at app. 3600. I would not go any more than 42 to 4300 rpms..
the pullstart is the responses best feature over the conquest. |
petie
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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The engines in new machines can be slightly "out of tune" or not at optimum tune. Proper carb float level, jetting, etc can make a difference in responsiveness and power. |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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Would more rpm give you more speed and torque or just speed. Can it be done with an 88 Magnum 8x8? Mine already goes 30 kph on the road and it is only rated at 28 kph. |
Bryan Perry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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Argogeru,
I just ordered my camoflauged Response this evening. It may be 1-2 weeks before it arrives; I can't wait. I'll have to tweak the governor when it comes in.
I'm having them put rawhide III's on it. I hope these are the best tires for the muck and mire that we hunt in.
Has anyone had any experience with the argo trailer in water? I may have to get one with all the gear we bring along. |
Bryan Perry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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David K,
Tweaking the governor to increase the maximum rpm would give you more speed. However, it should not give you more torque b/c the maximum torque for the briggs engine has already reached its peak even before the 3600 RPM limit.
I'm not sure if you can do this to an '88 model. Does it have a briggs engine. Most small engines like this have a simple kind of governor. |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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My engine is an 18 HP Kohler engine. (is is red) it is the same engine that they put in the 8x8 vanguards i think and definatly the 6x6 Magnum
By doing this adjustment though, do you loose anything performance wise?And could it cause problems in the long run? |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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Also, to gain more speed, would it help to have the drive chains (chairs from axle to axle) tight? Most of mine are very loose and almost at the end of the tensioner span. If they were all replaced, as well as the idler chains, would it speed it up? As is, it goes about 30 Kph |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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David,
You need to change your chains if they are loose. You will ruin sprockets,bearings, and pretty much everything else. the chains must be tight. |
Bryan Perry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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What do you guys lube your chains with?
Does anyone use synthetic oil in their briggs crankcase? What about synthetic 80W-90 in the Argo transmission?
No doubt synthetics prolong the life of moving parts; I'm just wondering if there is a reason synthetics should not be used. |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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I went full snythetic this year on argo eng and trans.
The synthetic has much more oil pressure when hot, as compared to the same brand/weight of normal oil. IE, it isn't losing it's viscosity with heat. |
Bryan Perry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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Roger,
What brand did you go with? I'm thinking about Amsoil since they have such a good name in the racing community. Here's their website address:
http://www.amsoil.com/ |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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I happened to choose Castrol... |
Bryan Perry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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I took delivery of my camo Argo Response last evening. It is camo'd inside and out and looks great! Even though I only got to ride it a short time in the dark; it is AWESOME! Even my wife who really doesn't like the outdoors thought it was cool. I can't wait to take it into the water and mud.
Can you really not use the briggs motor at full throttle for the first 8 hours of operation like the manual recommends? Anyone know what brand of oil is in the briggs from the factory? |
Bryan Perry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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Also, does it hurt to use the winch to tie down the front of the machine while trailering the Argo? |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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Winch for a tiedown-- bad idea!!! If the winch is too tight, over time it could damage the axles or frame. one thing is take a chain, run it from the front of the trailer to the back. Secure the chain and then attach the winch to that just enough to make the cable taught but not tight.
WHERE ARE THE PICS OF THIS NEW MACHINE?? WE (AT LEAST I) WANT TOO SEE PICTURES! |
Bryan Perry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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I'll likely take some pictures this weekend. However, I don't have a URL to post the pictures on.
If you don't use the winch to tie it down in front, where do you tie to? The axles?
What tire pressure do most people run in the Rawhide III tires? Right now I am running 3 psi. |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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I'm not saying don't use the winch to tie down the front, I am just saying it shouldn't be tightly cranked though. The idea of running a chain from the front to back and hooking the winch to that and tightening it will raise the chain and not pull the ARGO front down. To tie it down, I would think that using the lower body would be better than the upper. The trailer hitch would be a good point also. if you have a tow hook, you could try that.
3psi in the rawhides is fine. You can run up to 5 psi but that may be like running steel wheeles. You don't want them hard, but not flat either. Personally, I never go higher than 3 psi in my tires. I try to keep them all at 2.5 - 2.75 psi. I use it a lot on the road and off road and this works best! |
mike martindale (Wetsu)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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congrats on your new response bryan, ratchet strapps work ( i think ) best.to hold down my bigfoot. as far as tire pressure, i'm sure i read on this site that, for at least the first 3 hours you should run those rawhides at least 5 to 6 psi. to get the beads to seal. i could be wrong, but it is working on mine. you really don't want to throw a tire while it is still new ( trust me ) this has a way of dampening your spirits.
mike |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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Brian, I don't know if it is true or not, but I have heard that with the Briggs engine, you should run it for a while to find out if any adjustments need to be made. Congradulations on joining the ARGO CLAN with a few Max ATV dispersed between. |
Tom Jones (Unregistered Guest)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 07:15 pm: |
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I recently got my Argo Conquest 8x8 with the SuperTracks/ice cleats and pretty much every option for it. I did not have much time on the snow or ice so i removed the plastic SuperTracks.
I would like to ask how well the Rubber Track Kit works compaired to the tires for dense steep forrest areas and how well does my plastic SuperTracks stand up for non winter/snow use. |
fred sain (Unregistered Guest)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 08:07 am: |
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Brian, do not turn up your RPM,s before you break your engine in. The engine comes from the factory set at, low max RPM,s for a reason, after break in you can turn it up a little.
EVERYONE!! I have been using a plastic welder to repair holes in ARGO,s for two years, it does a perfect repair, you can not tell where you repaired it. I got it from snap-on tools. |
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