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MaxRules (Brandon_price)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: | 
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Rumor has it that Argo has some nice improvements lined up for 2002. Matt Oxender's new blue 2002 Argo Bigfoot had some of these improvements. The older Bigfoots were quite slow (listed at 24mph), slower than a stock 14hp Max II. It wasn't hard to see that Matt's Bigfoot was very FAST! I would not be suprised if it was moving at 35mph. We could see that the exhaust was different but no one knows where they got all that speed. ODG has a huge new factory and I wonder what they have on the drawing board.
I have heard the Bigfoot 8x8 will be out soon. They have designed a new tranny for the Argos. It is designed to be super heavy duty for the new Bigfoot 8x8, but will it feature true all wheel drive?
The Bigfoot 6x6 might get that little 18hp replaced with the 23hp Briggs. The 8x8 could have anything from 26 to 35hp. |
argo guy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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I have heard the the new tranny is a t-20 copy. Go figure. At least there should be no differential action. |
Argo Bob
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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My argo dealer said that there is a 10 wheeler due out this spring. He said it is going to be 2 wheels better than 8. He didn't have any info on the powerplant. I can't wait to get one. |
John Hamilton
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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I've "known" about ..some of this for awhile but lost total track of ..my source.Brandon,what improvements besides the bigger motors will there be?The tranny improvement.....is it a TOTALLY NEW design?I remember being told it would have true-full time six wheel drive like the RI products.Don't ask who told me because I don't know who he/was.I ...at one time was going to become a dealer but couldn't get over things such as price,and the 3 wheel peel thing,etc.
Now that things are changed forever here in America due to the attacks how well does it look for ARGO?Perhaps more people will buy "made in the U.S.A." now (if we can keep our shirts on our backs).This would be good for RI but what do THEY have in development besides stuffing a bigger motor into a current Max models?
Anymore info on ANY models?Hmm...found the "new" ATTEX yet or is it dead for good?If no new models come to the scene....the price will have to drop soon or the AATV(as we know it) industry will cease to exist in the next few years.Why....there are plans for...gulp...amphibs in the future of the "quad market"! |
ARGOGERU
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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what purpose would a ten wheeler serve? if the body was extended another twelve inches it would be useless in the woods or other places were manuverability is a must. odg needs to do more work on the eights before they even contiplate two more wheels. and then their is the price, a conquest cost more than most compact cars so it is very probably a ten wheeler would enter the relm of the midsize/full size truck market. the motors are 99% of the problem with argos. they have the right designs of bodies and frames but need more ponies! and every one is in agreement the prices need helped also. i drove the 8 wheeled bigfoot prototype at humprey and it had a 27 hp motor (kolhler i believe) and it felt like it only had 5 horse power! I dont see an eight bigfoot for a long time. ron bass did say that a six bigfoot with the 20 hp. liquid cooled kawasaki would be in production soon. I will be interested in the price that will go for. |
Mark Talarico
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Brandon,
I have held off buying an argo for the simple fact I had heard of ODG coming out with a better model of the Conquest. I like the fact that the rumor mill has it that the tranny will be similar to the T-20. While I had test driven both the Max and the Argo, I preferred the Argo Conquest for the simple fact that that it fit my needs better.
Maybe ODG will supply the Conquest Bigfoot (if that is what they call it) with the 25hp Kohler.
The dealer which is located where I live
was kind of tight lipped on giving any information on the new lines coming out. Guess he is wanting to get rid of the older models first.
Maybe some other Argo dealers can shed some light on the options that these new machines might be equipped with. I myself would like to know.
Since duck hunting season is close by for myself I am definitely in the market for an Argo.
Happy bouncing, and keep the info coming. |
Genes Argo Sales
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Don't tell anyone but odg is coming out with a line of 4 wheelers. It seems they want to go in a different direction. |
Paul Leonard (Duk)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Dont tell anyone! You put it on a message board for crying out loud....hehehe. |
MaxRules (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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I can't wait to see all the replies from that one. But, there are many possibilities. If ODG were in fact making a line a 4-wheelers, I doubt they would be the conventional type we all know. A smaller, amphibious vehicle with four wheels might be something they would make. ODG does not have the people power nor the building to make a big line of quads. After over 33 years making amphibious 6x6s, I don't see the company jumping onto the quad bandwagon. It could happen but I think it would be a bad thing for ODG and the entire 6x6 industry. ODG did once make a 3-wheeler (back in those days) called the Taurus. It was far beyond anything Honda had in those days but by the time it was ready for production, 3-wheelers had bit the dust. Instead of going to the assembly line it went to the crusher.
"Don't tell anyone" I told you that even though this is posted on the most popular 6x6 message board in the world!
MaxRules |
John Hamilton
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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So the 8x8,perhaps named after a mountain-Suzuki like OR simply the Yeti...a bigger(more wheels?)and alot older "version" of the BIGFOOT story...underpowered?A Triton PREDATOR has ALOT of power so why would a top scale ARGO feel as such?
A 4x4 quad from....ODG?Well the market IS calling for quads.Perhaps we will ...finally see...a CUP HOLDER!!
Most of the major "quad" makers HAVE an amphibious quad in testing or atleast on the drawing boards.From what I was told the biggest problems in bringing them into production is rider misuse/govennment.This caused the demise of the 3 wheeled atv in North America.......
Brandon,what does RI have "new" in the works that...you have heard?Anything?ODG...a quad...nope..then agian who knows.
Hmmmm.....a form of suspension for a 6x6 or 8x8?Perhaps....a nimble hydrostatic unit?Something the PEOPLE can afford to actually buy?Well... |
Argotony
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Well if the T-20 rumor is true then you Max guys should be scared. If the Argo gets a T-20 style trany and a bigger motor the Max 6x6 will not sell. The quality of the Argo is undisputed and the only flaw is the trany and a little shy on ponies. I hope it happens because I will trade my Bigfoot for a new model.
Tony |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Tony, surely you jest! It is PSI on the ground and balance that makes the difference in performance. Now, if Argo would go to standard duals, get a T-20 type tranny, put the engine in the rear and sell it all for a price that is comparable to Max, then they would have something. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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And also Tony, Why are you Argo guys always looking for something better? I keep trying to get my customers to trade in their old machines for a new one. Most every one tells me, "Why should I do that? There is nothing worong with this one - it is more of a machine than you told me it was and does everything I want to do." For the record, most everything I sell is with the 18 HP Briggs and the Max IV out sells the Max II almost 3 to 1. |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Fred,
Argo and max owners are looking for more hp more than anything, we both have the same engines in the machines. and just the facts here their are twelve maxes for sale on this web site and only 4 argos so who is really looking for something better? the numbers answer the Question. after all you seem to be a man of fact. just thought i would let you know. |
Travis Chrystal (Travisch)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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and also tony, if you were to trade your bigfoot in on a max you would also have to get a set of tools and spare parts. Fred's only comment ever is "PSI on the ground" yet my bigfoot goes anywhere my maxiv will with ease. |
Eugene Kochnieff
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Here's my two cents worth.
I hope the new argo DOES not use the good but old design t20!!! The way to go is a smaller version of the Centaur tranny; superior to both T20 and open Diff. I partially agree with fred about balance but think a front engine rear tranny would be better than the max design, after all the engineers at ODG if they have any pride will want to better the competition not equal it. Add a PTO to the rear mounted tranny for implements or a Propeller and 6x6 buyers will be saying Max who???
See Ya Eugene. |
Chris
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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This discussion spins a couple of questions... sorry if they seem a little uninformed. Everyone seems to want more HP, my Buffalo is only running a 20HP, but it's got loads of power and can pull just about everything. Does it have a different gearing ratio or something? I can't imagine what to do with more power on it.
Eugene mentioned a PTO, now there is a valuable addition. I could see an argument for placing it in the rear and in the front, I'm not sure which I'd want. (Visions of a snow blower in front come to mind!) The propeller in back is also a nice idea. Has anyone developed a PTO type addition to any 6x6 yet? |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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OK guys:
Argogeru - Maybe a max gets better performance out of the same horsepower? And a quick look at the classified, I see most of the Max are for sale by dealers and a lot of "sold" Max. I will agree that there is a learning curve to driving a max and some people never get the help they need or are not willing to invest the time to become proficient (but that is lack of operator ability not lack of machine capability).
Travis - Boy, I sure wish you guys with decade old max would not be so naive as to think that parts do not wear out or that there have been no improvements. Just what is it that you have to fix all the time that requires all those tools and spare parts? I take water, a lunch and my web straps when I go out (used to take extra gas, but never needed it so quit taking it). Tell me what you are having problems with and we can probably solve whatever it is. And you need to try tougher terrain if you can go where ever you want to go! keep looking until you can find some place the Argo won't go - then try the max (of course you can't have the 21" rawhide tire on the max and the 25" rawhide III tire on the bigfoot, although it is probably an equal match,) and expect the max to outperform.
Eugene - Now what Argo needs to do is to come up with a 24" wide tire and put the operator seat and controls in the back - it will take an engine the size of the landtamer, but hey, it might be comparable to the max in performance. |
Argotony
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Fred,
I guess unlike you I am not an expert on "ground PSI" so I won't comment on that. As for balance I think the Argo Bigfoot is very well balanced I see no problems with mine. I think everyone with a 6x6 would like something better it is called imagination. Everyone is looking for the perfect machine. Maybe for you the Max IV is the perfect machine, but I don't drive demos in a parking lot either. I will tell you this, I would not trade my Argo for the best Max IV you sell. And as for the price, well the Max IV 18hp was more than my Bigfoot was. The only Max cheaper was the Max II with 16hp or less and it does not have the load capacity my Argo has and cannot sit four people or carry the same cargo amount. Oh yeah and Fred the reason your customers don't want to trade their old machines in is because they have the same poor design and are thousands more in cost.
Tony |
Tom Janizuski
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Fred,
Why is it that in this entire discussion board there is no mention of Argo machines having dozens of difficult mechanical problems?? No bad bearings, chains, axles, holes in the body? And what is more unbelievable is that you have all the answers. Between you and Brandon Price you could solve world hunger and put a stop to terrorism. Ever thought of a career in politics??
Tom |
matt435
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Fred, I have a new argo bigfoot and a new max 2.
They both have there positives and negitives but you are always bashing the argo? I own both and enjoy both. Why can't you have a better attitude about this subject. I have been to the humphry ride and the attica ride twice, rode all day with the max factory guys and they could care less about what you ride. It is the fun of the sport you should think about, not the one sided view. Matt |
P.J.
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Get ready to eat your words Sowerwine! The new Argos are going to be introduced to dealers in December/01 or January/02. Even if they could go 100 miles per hour, fly, and do your income taxes for you I'm sure you would bad mouth them for some nonsensical reason. Is your BIG MAX overcompensating for some other little thing? There are those who say your attitude stems from being denied a dealership by ODG. Well? |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Matt, I sell Max, period. Nothing else. I do it mostly for something to do, but mainly because I like the machines. I did a lot of research before I chose a max for my ranch use machine over an Argo. I try to stay current on what others offer. IMO, max has no competition yet. I have no ill will against Argo but have watched two Argo dealers quit selling the machines. Why, I don't know, but my guess is that they did not sell.
I drive Fords, I raised and showed Quarter Horses for about 35 years and Angus cattle are the only bovine. I drink Pepsi and I am a conservative Republican. Guess you are right, I am one sided. I have been a competitive person since my years in school athletics. Guess I am what you call "brand loyal". Besides who would all these guys have to argue with?
P.J., call Tom Tomlinson at Point's West Argo in California - he will answer that question for you. |
mr. roadwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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hey argonauts, why don't ya all listen to what fred and brandon have to tell you, ya might learn something. i found both them guy's know their subject.
maybe you guys just can't stand the fact ya all got stuck with 3 wheel drives!
oh yea PJ, i heard that fred was a real hit with the women back in his college days! |
MaxRules (Brandon_price)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Once again Fred deserves a round of applause. I couldn't have said it better myself.
I anxiously await the release of the new Argos. I give all off road vehicles an honest chance and I'll be proud to own an Argo if the new models are truly revolutionary.
Next summer my Max will be three years old and that is the longest I have ever kept one ATV. I'll probably be buying a new AATV by then. May the best vehicle win.
MaxRules |
John Hamilton
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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WHOA!!!!!!!I said WHOOOOOAAAAAA!!!This has gotten OFF topic.I have to agree with Matt435 on this one.P.J.,do you have ANY info on what will be offered?Tom,this has nothing to do with terrorism,Brandon or Fred.They can have their say here just like you and I.We ALL should be more concened with improvements in the AATV industry...not about what is better,etc.You have made some good points and nobody should say different.That was a good post.Travis,say what you may but I need ONLY TWO different sized wrenches or sockets to work on my Max II.I like both machines but both ARE different in many ways.Now imagine what it would be like to work on a hydrostatic 6x6/8x8..or more wheels.A GatorGrip socket would be the answer....NOT!These are machines and WITH maintence they ALL should work for many,many years.All have/will have problems because nothing...and I mean nothing is truely perfect.If it was then only so many would be built and sold since no more would ever be needed.The company that made such a vehicle would cease to exist in a very short time.Enough on that ...for now.
Eugene and Chris!!You both have spoken of the future.However it probably will not come directly from ANY company directly making an AATV.Rokon 2x2 cycles have this option but not in the marine capacity mentioned here.It will be up to us ...here on this board to be the 1st to the market with a cheap,usable PTO unit for all AATV machines.One question as to a propeller....how will we steer?With OVER 100,000+ different vehicles in use today this might be a plorable goal(profitable!) to seek.One of(or more)us here may be the next "WARN" of the 6x6/8x8 world.If you have an idea let us(those here on Route 6x6) be apart of it.I'm thinking....grant(?).It's like football people.It isn't just the people playing that makes it a success $$$$$-wise but really and truely only the fans.We are the fans of the AATV world.
So what DO the "new" ARGO vehicles have...new?And the same question goes towards the RI vehicles.Who knows....maybe a design by Richard beholds our future?What about "spy photos" of these vehicles?Other sites have these for "quads".Small it may be but unless this market continues to progress at a fast rate....it will die.Look at the flat fender jeep.It lasted for many,many years and now there is no REAL JEEP.80+ percent of present ATV buyers/owners don't know nor have heard of let alone seen one of these awesome machines. |
Ken Thompson
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Guys,
Well I had both brands and my Argo has not broke down one time. I have rode over the same terrain and the Max broke down at least a dozen times why? I say quality and that is a fact not to be disputed by anyone. But when you bring up the facts you are called a liar right Fred.
Ken |
Eugene Kochnieff.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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John Hamilton,
For an add on prop drive hydralic is the way to go for universal fit.
A simple pump/motor with basic reversing valve is all that is needed, two variations are needed based on the different Rpm/power bands of 2 vs 4 stroke machines.
I guess if you could run 5 Hp to the prop virtually any AATV still in use could be made to move quite briskly through the water.
5 Hp would also limit heating of oil but the lines could be metal, run outside the body just under or over the axles lengthwise along the side, and hence water cooled!!!!
Steering is an interesting problem, obviously a rudder is the most effective but not very practical (particularly in mud), although a small thrust vector rudder could be incorporated into a prop guard. A swivelling hyd motor is an alternative but mechanically more complex, stress loads etc taken into account.
Then there is the cheapest but likely least effective method of steering, using the wheels to steer in the water as is done now, messy noisy and slow to react.
just some thoughts.
PS I admire Freds brand loyalty but wonder if he would conceed that an argo or anything for that matter was superior to a max even if faced with overwhelming evidence on his terms, psi on the ground, balance etc.
PPS I cant say i agree with the contention that psi on the ground is everything either on purely engineering/physics grounds.
Put simply if you follow this train of thought if low psi is good very low psi is better thus no psi is perfect. now there is a problem with this as with no psi there can be no traction and therefore no forward movement (assuming you are on level ground and if you are on a slope you are going down hill with no control and no brakes)!!!!!
Now there is an AATV with no psi on the ground (technically extremely low) it is a hovercraft; this machine has no brakes can only handle very gentle slopes and is very poor to steer!!!!!!
So basically the much quoted lowest psi on the ground of the max is just marketing hype capitalizing on the max's specification. There must be a point where lowering psi becomes detrimental by reducing traction and increasing load and stress on the axles etc.
The issue of balance however is very appropriate but once again not as simple as might be thought,
The balance of a vehicle will vary greatly between
minimal load(1 small Driver) and maximum load( as specified by the manufacturer) It is standard engineering practice to specify for worst case so an Argo will seem front heavy minimally loaded but much more balanced fully loaded, where as a Max will seem better unloaded but fully loaded the load must be more evenly distributed into the passenger areas to maintain even balance.
Eg you can get a ton of bricks into both a pickup truck and a sedan but the truck will take the full load in the back and be balanced but the sedan will need to have the load shared between the trunk, rear and front floors.
Stepping down off the soapbox now.
Eugene. |
jim bausch
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Argotony,
Throw your Argo on a set of scales. A Max II 800T is has 54% of it's weight in the rear, a Max IV 900T has 51% of it's weight to the rear (surprising isn't it?), and an Argo Bigfoot only has 36% of it's weight in the rear (a little front heavy?). All vehicles had a full tank of gas. This was obtained with my Max II, some friends vehicles and a $2500 set of longacre digital race car scales. Just a little info for everyone. |
Chris
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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John,
If you want to talk about future improvements, you should talk to Oliver. I think he's got a profile on this site to contact him. He's quite the visionary and has lots of ideas. He's got a Buffalo like mine, likes it but isn't satisfied. If you want to talk improvement opps, give him a yell. |
DAVE JOHNSON (Motoys)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Wow, you guys are brutal!(not JH)
I am new to this site, and I love these 6 wheel things. I ride my toys very hard and thus I have to repair them often. My 6 wheelers are no exception.
I am interested in the alledged improvements by ODG. What has been proposed here would be great. My bigfoot is a nice machine, but it is not as fun as my MAX. The only thing that scares me is the cost of these improvements. When MAX improved the drive train on the 2 passenger the price went up almost $1000.00 that year alone. I wanted the improvements and bought one. This past year when MAX came out with the 20 hp. it jumped another $1000.00+. I saw this unit at a dealership and it looked awsome but where do you draw the line on what you spend vs what you get?
ODG will offer a nice product if and when they come out with what has been described here but what will the cost be? $15,000. We all agree that these things are alot of fun but both my Bigfoot and MAX II together barely cost me $15,000. Furthermore, my fourwheeler, dirt bike and jet ski alltogether only cost me a little more than $15,000.
It is a sad reality for a funloving cheapskate like me--YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR AND YOU PAY FOR WHAT YOU GET. |
fred sain
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Fred; Surely you jest!!! PSI Argo Response 1.67 Engine in front, sure feels safe climbing hills. PRICE!!! I can not believe you even brought that up. Tranny, well one out of four is not bad, Argo could gain alot of power with a tranny upgrade, (supposed to be in the works.) This is the first time I have ever responded to Sowerwine, but he needs to use fact not fiction. Fact: four Max dealers in and out of bussiness within 50 miles of me in 5 years. We looked at Max in 1997, even brought one in to try it, by the time you add all the Max upgrades, it was much higher than Argo. P.S. The Max reminded people too much of the Hustler, made Max hard to sell, which was built about 40 miles from me. Now that i have had my say. I apollogize in advance for anything that sounds negative toward any ones machine. This is America where we all have choices, use yours and use the machine you like. |
Argotony
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Jim,
Well a litle nose heavy is not all bad. For one thing this ground PSI deal is interesting. If I had little ground PSI as Sowerwine describes, then it would seem that the machine would not go as well in mud. If you go through a soupy mud hole the machine would set on the top and the tires would spin out the lose material leaving one high bottomed. That is why the Argo is so superior. I go through a mud hole and the extra weight in the front allows for continuous traction. Watch an Argo go through a mud hole, it just bull dozes the mud out of the way. The Max seems to high bottom much easier. And Jim the % of weight in the front or the rear does not affect the performance of the machine. It is not unstable in water, mud, snow, or climbing hills.
Dave Johnson,
What makes the Max funner than the Argo? I ride with all different brands of 6x6 old and new. Everyone likes their particular machine for some reason but everyonehas fun.
Tony |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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More response:
Ken Thompsom (if you really exist and are not just a made up name); I did not call you a liar, but your failure to answer my questions cast heavy suspicion on that possibility. You are the one who said you live in Montana (if you won't give me the city, give me the county). You also said you bought a 900T Max IV and your brother bought a Max II. Please tell me when and from whom. statements do not become facts until they have been proven indisputable - all I am asking is for you to prove your statements. When you won't, you don't have much credibility.
Yes, Eugene, I am big enough to take some heat if I am proven wrong (several posters have said they were going to do that, but we are all still waiting for the evidence). If a superior machine surfaces, I will give it acknowledgment. Your discussion on PSI on the ground is interesting (a sled comes to mind), but I don't think any engineer really has to worry about that problem yet. IMO, several makes of the machines are unable to lower their PSI on the ground because of the weight of their machines and the limitations of axles, bearings, etc. etc. I absolutely agree with many of your comments on balance, but the load of bricks stuff is not balance, it is ability to carry a load (the sedan's load will be better balanced) . There is much more weight on the rear axle than the front axle when that truck is loaded and vice versa. IMO balance is the ability to keep the load evenly distributed so that each individual tire is carrying the same weight. If the operator is aware of such, it is much easier to keep a max balanced than some other skid steers (all can be balanced if the desire and ability is present). But Balance and real PSI on the ground go hand in hand. Front heavy or rear heavy or balanced has a big impact on performance whenever flotation is important- regardless of "on paper" numbers; IMO uniform PSI on the ground and balance are what enables performance (when flotation is important) assuming adequate HP and traction.
Fred Sain, Where do you get your information for saying a Response exerts 1.67 PSI on the ground (ODG's web site says 2.1 - and I doubt if that is uniform and how can two machine with different weights and the same tires have the same PSI on the ground?). If you looked into becoming a max dealer, you know why 4 max dealers have failed. The market is too small and the margin is too thin. You would have to sell five max (ten with the cut throat internet pricing) to make what you earn on one Argo. Yes, if I was a salesman at all (if the max doesn't sell itself, it doesn't sell) and in it to try to make money, I would sell Argos. I offer a satisfaction guarantee on machines sold off the place here and I can't do that with just any machine. |
Paul Leonard (Duk)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Im new to this message board, but it sounds like we have a high spirited group of people here, with quite a bit of knowledge....or at least opinions...hehehe. When I was a kid in school we used to argue which was better a Chevy or a Ford,,, and a John Deere or A International Harvester tractor... Nobody ever did win, but we sure had a lot of fun disagreeing. Thats what makes this world an interesting place, everyone is a little different, and has their own opinions. I don't have any experience with argos, and just go my first Max a week or too ago. But I can tell you one thing!..I like riding it better than or just as much as my 4 wheeler! And if any of you are near me (Arkansas) lets ride sometime! Paul |
John Hamilton
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Thanks.....I'm not the "BRUTAL" type.
Not being one sided here so I'll let it rip.
Max....a dealer can purchase a machine for around $300 TO $700 less than suggested retail.I have seen this "retail price" increased..I said that right....by alot of dealers.I can't speak for Fred since I don't kow what he even charges.
Argo.....When I was thinking about becoming a dealer I could buy ANY machine ODG sold for atleast $1000 below retail.The same thing I said on the Max above goes for this as well.
With the costs to produce these machine...even in small,small amounts by automotive standards I can see why and understand how RI and ODG are still around.Take a look at what the machines cost "new".
Eugene,nice post.As for PSI..fill the tires of a PREDATOR with Helium(right?)and the machine will ALMOST float in the air but still have traction to move!!!That was sarcasim....on the P.S.I. arguement taking place.
This topic has evolved into something other than "2002 ARGOS".It reminds me of discussions on Ebudo.com ..... |
motoys
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Argo Tony,
We all have different toys for different uses. For checking on the growth of my Christmas trees I use my dirtbike I can run between all the rows and be back to the house in 10-15 min. The four wheeler works well for the light trail riding with other four wheelers we ride a lot of abandoned railroads and we can use the speed. The MAX and Argo are best suited for the swamp, marsh and hunting. Where these things can go is very impressive.
The reason I stated that the MAX was more fun than the Argo is because it is. It may be my own opinion and I can only base it on how I feel driving each machine. I like the balance of the MAX, the additional leg room and the saftey aspect. I can jump into this machine and let it rip. The Argo is a bit larger and does feel nose heavy especially when I have the roll cage on it. Plus, have you ever bumped you knee just right on one of the levers that hurts. Now, my wife likes the Argo quite well, but she is a careful driver and does not let it rip. Each has a style of driving unique to itself and either can be fun to different people. Some have fun driving a brand new Caddy but I would have more fun driving an '72 Grand Prix with a Big block 400. Not much of a ride but a whole lot of fun!! |
John Martin
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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I have never even been in an Argo, but I drive a Max II and think it has great legroom. It feels sporty and I think the way you sit in the Max II allows you to be in the best possible position for tough riding more than if I where in an Argo or a Max IV. Then if you have the 25 Kohler in a Max II you enter a whole new realm from what I saw at the September Badlands ride. Can't wait to see what the Argos are coming up with for the next year! |
ARGOGERU
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Lets all just be friends. |
rockroy
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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2002 8x8 Bigfoot: Does anybody know for sure if ARGO is really coming out with the 8x8 bigfoot for 2002? I am chomping at the bit to get the conquest, but love the ground clearance and tires on the big foot. My dealer says it will be "years" before it comes out; he of course wants me to buy now!!! Any input is appreciated.
larry@lvrcorp.com |
argogeru
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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rockroy,
the bigfoot 8 is a long way from going into production. I drove the prototype at humphrey and it is an auwsome machine but the 27 hp motor is not even close to enough power to turn that thing. they are putting a 6 wheel conquest into production supposidly this fall or next according to ron bass the plant manager. they had one their and it was by far the most superior machine their. lots of power and liquid cooled. cant beat it. they are probably going to go with another tranny in the bigfoot 8 also, they had modified the regular one in it a couple of times to try different stuff as far as shifting. I can not even imagine the price the are going to ask for both of these machines, it will probably knock the wind out of the normal man. |
fred
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Argo is being more than tight lipped about any changes or new products that they have in the works. I am one of their biggest dealers, and ODG has not confirmed anything with me yet. ODG did the same thing with the Centaur, would not confirm until they put it on the market.
Sowerwine you were right on the PSI, the 8x8 is 2.1 I also see your point on balance, with Max engine in back people in front. But with the Argo engine mounted in the bottom of the machine, I do a demo with a 6x6 floating in a pond, with myself and a passenger in the front seat, I can stand up and walk around the edge of the machine without taking on water. I always thought that was pretty good balance. |
george gorman
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Hey everbody this is what you don't see at the rides because everone is more interested in having fun then what you drive. About the power problem with the conquest they must have left that one out of mine. I have no power problem it has done everything I have wanted it to do and suprised me in the mean time. Every body have a great time with what ever you drive. And look forward to whatever ODG and RI come up with George |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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well fred sowerwine, you should try that same stunt then on your demo's, "walking around the vehicl in the water," heh heh, max vehicles are a little like a cork, they bob n tip all over the place, nnot so balenced in the water,an argo may tip forward but maxes tip backward and the vents are there right? i know i wouldent try it for any money,(i cant swim) |
Mike
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Hey everyone, go back to the beginning of this thread and read about the proposed Argo improvements such as the t20 transmission and the 10 wheeled Argo. The thread started in 2001. Anybody have something new to share on the board in these areas? What about the 23 hp Briggs motor. I seem to remember someone recently posting that he bought a new Argo with a 23hp motor. I can't find out anything on the ODG site about the engine. Fact or fiction? |
David Keeso (Argomag)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Mike. Their is going to be a new bigfoot on the market soon. it is supposed to be a 8 wheeler, but I don't know what improvements they are going to put in it. The current bigfoot is a cut off response- exactly. The frame is a little different to allow for the rawhides but thats it. I don't understand how they can stretch the bigfoot out without making it look identical to the response, with different tires. they might as well just put rawhides on the responce and call it a bigfoot. The 10 wheeled machine story is bull crap. I talked to ron Bass and he said "I don't know who told you that but its a load of horse crap" I can't comment on the t-20 but I don't want one anyways. I think the 23 hp was matt's and it was an engine swap with several other upgrades but someone else will know better. |
Roger Smith
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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The bigfoot wheelbase is different than the vanguard and response/conquest 8's.
bigfoot's axles are 25.75" on center
the others are 24" on center
so at least the frames and lower tubs are different. Can't fit 25" tires on 24" centers |
Roger Smith
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Well, after looking at argo's specs, looks like all the 6 wheelers are 25.75" on center and both 8 wheelers are 24". Wonder if you can fit 25" tires on any argo 6. |
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