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Eldon Carpenter
New member
Username: Eldonrc
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 02:45 pm: | 
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Hi: I'm new to this discussion forum and new to Argo.
I recently saw Argos at an ATV show and was taken by their capabilities.Can some owners offer me tips on which machine is best,the 6 or the 8 and perhaps some restrictions of each.I would appreciate any information you can lend Thanks EldonRC |
momobigfoot
Member
Username: Momobigfoot
Post Number: 46
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 05:13 pm: |
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Both great in my book,but 8x8 will be little more stable over ruff terrian. And more room for people and supplies.Rick |
Jerry Nuss - Illinois MAX dealer
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 650
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 09:06 pm: |
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You would need to decide why you want it and how you plan to use it. I like 6x6 machines but I like to play with them, others will swear by the 8x8. |
Eldon Carpenter
New member
Username: Eldonrc
Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 10:00 pm: |
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I appreciate the input.Actually I'm leaning to the eight wheelers for reasons of more cargo space and I'm told capable of a steeper incline.The 6x6 would be best going thru untrailed forest because of shorter turning capabilities.In the eight wheelers there is a Frontier and an Avenger.Avenger is the premium machine no question and premium price too.The air cooled Frontier has no cab heater capabilities but does have recoil start for emergencies. LOL I wish when I decided to buy something there was only one model .:-) |
Jerry Nuss - Illinois MAX dealer
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 651
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 01:56 am: |
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It sounds like you have decided on the 8x8 without even knowing it. I have not seen a 8x8 slowed down by tight trails. With a good driver they will go through just as tight of stuff as a 6x6. Yes more cargo space and better on the uphill and down hill. You can always fab up a cab heater on the air cooled machines by running a fan over the exhaust and adding tubing to increase the surface area on the exhaust.
The Frontier 8x8 is a very nice machine. The efi Avenger makes it a consideration too. What is your elevation? If you are in an area with elevation changes or are at altitude the EFI is the way to go. |
Len Cater
Intermediate Member
Username: Lcater
Post Number: 65
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 05:50 pm: |
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I would go Avenger if planning on using tracks since it has the axle extensions on front and rear. No track, Frontier 8x8 is a nice machine. |
Eldon Carpenter
New member
Username: Eldonrc
Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 09:28 pm: |
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The new Frontier has axle extensions as well front and rear for 2008 but the tracks only fit over the 24 inch Run Amok tires.To have the benefit of tracks and Rawhide III tires you need the track plus two suits of tires.A lot of the savings from Frontier to Avenger are gone.
Not really an elevation issue here, Jerry but again it is a consideration with travel over the long term.By the way Jerry seeing you are a Max dealer,the Argo dealer I talked to spoke very highly of the Max,especially in the area of the Max steering system. |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 368
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 09:44 pm: |
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Is there a reason you'd want a spare set of rawhides on the fronty? I can't think of any. |
Eldon Carpenter
New member
Username: Eldonrc
Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 09:46 pm: |
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My mistake Len........the axle bearing extensions on the Frontier 8x8 are only standard on the front; on the rear they are an option.The difference in price from the Frontier to the 700 Avenger is $2500 so
when thinking of flexibility the dealer was right,the Avenger is a better buy.The 750 EFI is $3800 more than the Frontier.Probably worth it over the long haul. |
Eldon Carpenter
New member
Username: Eldonrc
Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 09:54 pm: |
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The Rawhides are 25 inch but with the lug type tread I am told they give closer to an inch more clearance than the 24 inch run amoks.The dealer told me the Run Amoks are better in the water.A guy with an '05 Bigfoot for sale told me the Rawhides were better in water.I am told by everyone that the Rawhides have better traction.A good question though Rogersmith as outfitting an 8x8 with a spare set of wheels and then think about buying rubber tracks........we're talking big bucks. |
Jerry Nuss - Illinois MAX dealer
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 652
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 10:52 pm: |
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From what I have heard the Frontier tires are great swimmers better than the Rawhides. |
Missouri's Max Dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 268
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 11:28 pm: |
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The Avenger also has the skid plate standard ($500 option for Frontier) in addition to the front and rear axle extensions. Also, either vehicle can be outfitted with either set of tires as a factory option when you order. The Frontier 8x8 is a great machine but the value is just not there over the Avenger. In 2006, I could sell a brand new Response 8x8 for $10,000. The Frontier 8x8 is a much improved vehicle but now just two years later, it sells for $13,700 and rising. That is nearly a $4000 price increase for a vehicle that is basically the same with updates it should have had ten years ago. |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 369
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 12:38 am: |
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Eldon, I guess I should say I've ridden in group rides for years, saw the first avengers and frontiers in action. I havn't seen a frontier 8 in person, but imagine there will be situations when it'll outperform an avenger. It's lighter overall, less front heavy. There's no way I'd put rawhides on it. The rawhide 25 is really closer to 24 anyway, and you'll be adding a 100 lbs to the machine in wheel and tire weight. Ground clearance means something, but the line you choose through an obstacle can make more of a difference. The only time I'd mount rawhides would be for a parade on pavement. Whoever told you the rawhide has better traction doesn't get out much. The argo tire is better in mud, snow, sand and water than the rawhide, from what I've seen on the last several rides. Not to mention the ride quality. It's a funny looking tire, but it works very well. |
liflod
Advanced Member
Username: Liflod
Post Number: 163
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 08:23 am: |
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I recently watched a couple Frontiers in action in the snow. I watched in amazement as a Frontier just climbed up a snow covered hill. It had some tire spin, but it would spin bounce, dig, move forward , spin, bounce, move forward.
I also looked at the tire's footprint in the snow. The tire tread never lost touch with the ground. People talk about the old balloon tires that just wrap around anything and gain traction. I could actually see how the Frontier tires wrap around everything they run across. The Frontier was running 2 psi or less in the tires.
I think they are more fragile than the Rawhides, but you, as the driver, need to pick the line that gets you to the end without undo stress on the machine.
There are way too many decisions to be made in picking tires, but great traction, water speed and a great ride are pretty much on the top of the list. If you plan on running a lot of sharp rocks, the Rawhides would be better.You would sacrifice something.If you don't plan on swimming with your machine, than the tire list gets a lot bigger. |
Eldon Carpenter
New member
Username: Eldonrc
Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 04:18 pm: |
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I sure do appreciate the input folks.you have been very helpful in narrowing down this relatively big ticket item for me.The skid plate is a must in my opinion,I wasn't aware that it was not standard on the 650 8x8 while it is on the 650 6x6.The guy telling me that the rawhides swim better had one for sale with rawhides,that sometimes sways facts.The price is close enough on the Avengers to go to the EFI,the 8x8 Avenger trumps the 8x8 Frontier.The price difference from 6x6 650 to 8x8 750EFI is $6500.The dealer has a used 700 Avenger if its a terrific buy well maybe.
But you sure have helped me with the math. |
Len Cater
Intermediate Member
Username: Lcater
Post Number: 66
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 11:31 pm: |
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I'll add a bit more to this.
tires - everyone seems to be ranting about the 24's. I have the 25's and we've had nothing but pain with them. The sideways cut way too easy. I think I would rather have the 24" and 1/2" less clearance then the 25's.
skid plate - if you are running rock trails, I think it is essential for peace of mind. It's plastic so it can puncture, but I've yet to see that happen.
alternator or recoil - does the Frontier have an alternator? I see if has the backup recoil starter which in the older models meant no alternator just the magneto type charger? If winching is in your future, you'll want the alternator.
The other option is of course going with a low mileage used Avenger. Many times people buy them but find out they want the speed of a quad and sell with low miles. Good way to buy and if under 100 hours, not much change of getting a lemon. |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 370
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 12:15 pm: |
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The newer Vanguard twins offer a 20-50 amp integral charging system(Frontier). They charge at idle! I think nice used machines are the way to go. In a few years a frontier 8 for $8,000... |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 495
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 01:45 pm: |
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hey Len, What Roger said! Unbelievable. The new 23 Briggs charges like nothing before. The Avenger seems to charge at just off idle but the new Briggs has charging down to a sience. |
Len Cater
Intermediate Member
Username: Lcater
Post Number: 68
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 02:28 pm: |
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Nice then. My old bigfoot was good for one winch and then the battery needed charging. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 496
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 07:55 pm: |
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Len, I was doing multiple winching with the Avenger idiling at slow and I killed the battery and the engine. Now I set the idle up a bit when I'm winching. I am thinking about installing or having a dealer install Argo's new hand brake. Have you or any other Argo owners thought about that? |
mike kirouac
Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 43
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2008 - 07:59 am: |
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Phil, do you have an alternatoe kit installed? I have an 08 and the hand brake works awesome. It will hold easily so far on any hill I have been on. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 497
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2008 - 08:53 pm: |
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hi Mike, no alternator kit. except for multiple winching, I don't know if one is needed on the avenger efi? The alternator kits that I have seen on Conquest 8 wheelers looked a little elaborate ; extra seperate alternator and long belt added onto top of engine. Are they neater on the avengers? About the hand brake- glad to hear thar it works well- I need something to hold my machine in place while I winch other things and machines. |
mike kirouac
Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 44
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2008 - 09:32 pm: |
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The alternator kit is under the engine. can't really see it. I have yet to buy a winch. I will be doing that shortly. Do you know if the winch kit is hard to install? |
Len Cater
Intermediate Member
Username: Lcater
Post Number: 69
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 09:40 am: |
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Phil, I was looking at it and I like the idea. The current locking brake is not that great (never was). What I want to do next is get a tonneau cover made for the rear to keep limbs etc out when no passengers. We had the full top on the Conquest and found we did not use it that much. So prefer a snap over cover to keep the crap out. Anyone see one or had one made? |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 498
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 12:54 pm: |
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Len, I like the rear cover idea. I got the full top for winter but intend to take it off soon. It is way too expensive for running through the bush in the summer. Your rear tonneau could be a tight fit snap on or more of a little tarp tied to the rear side rails (if you have them installed.?) I will like to see a picture of what you decide.
Argo say not to use the hydraulic hand brake for long periods to avoid causing a cylinder leak. I would prefer not to be the first guy to retrofit a new parking brake but it seems a good idea. A "LINE LOCK" was suggested but that would keep the brake wheel cylinders under constant pressure.
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philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 499
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 02:14 pm: |
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Mike, About installing a winch on your efi. Installing a kit is pretty straight foreward, but not simple because of the re-inforcing bow, added plates inside and outside where the bow meets the winch etc. The wiring requires a switch on the handlebar tied to the ignition switch. You may want the remote switch receiver and the little antennea that hides under the dash in the engine bay. If you go that far you may as well run the wires and quick disconnect to alow the winch to be used front and rear. Argos' kit comes with instructions written in English and lots of pictures, no prob. really. But somebody asked about FABRICATING their own mount, that is another kettle of fish unless you have a kit to copy, I can,t see how a guy could get it right. If you do the rear mount winch thing,after you have fished in the mud to get at the winch,I can send you a picture of a rear high mount off of the hitch. happy Riding |
Brian in FABULOUS Utah
Intermediate Member
Username: Brianprovo
Post Number: 59
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 05:56 pm: |
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Len, A couple options from an archive of pictures I have:
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Len Cater
Intermediate Member
Username: Lcater
Post Number: 70
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 11:06 pm: |
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Very Nice black one. I think I may take that photo into a local boat top maker and see what they can come up with.
Thanks |
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