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Missouri's Max and Argo Dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 160
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 02:51 pm: | 
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Missouri just got the biggest snow since 1995. We have 10-12" on the ground with drifts even deeper. It's the perfect snow to test out the amphibs. I had my '97 Conquest ready to rock with full top and heater. I drove through the yard and it was what I expected. It went ok but steering was difficult and I got stuck on drifts. I had to get out the other models to see what they could do. Up next was the 27hp Max IV with 26" tires. It went good but those 26" tires weren't able to really get anything going for reasons I can't understand. Back to the garage, and there sits the new Frontier. I begin driving in the yard and it is steering like it's on solid ground and flying through drifts with ease. I drove it EVERYWHERE and performance is unbelievable. It flew across the field at top speed with over a foot of snow trying to slow it down. I drove it through the wooded trails and up and down hills. Plenty of wheel spinning power for the new custom tires to take me where I pointed it. The lower body design made the difference. High ground clearance and the approach design is perfect. Even when snow was trying to go over the front tires it just kept going. I have some pictures that I'll post soon. You have to see the Frontier in action to believe it. It's the new king of the 6x6 world. |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 180
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 08:01 pm: |
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Was wondering how much snow you'd get, Brandon. Started to post yesterday and tell ya to get the super tracks on the conquest. I got hammered in Tulsa, 60 miles north they got 15". Nothing compared to our northern friends, but a big wet record setting eary snow this far south. Oh and a thick ice storm base before the snow topping. We had a week of sunny and 70 before this hit! |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 181
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 08:43 pm: |
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And about the frontier in the snow, the runamuk and new argo tire are funny looking, but won't clog the tread easily like the mud tires mounted backwards we use. |
Missouri's Max and Argo Dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 161
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 09:17 pm: |
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*PICS* Yes Roger we got a great storm. I don't like cold weather but all this snow makes it worthwhile. I was out in it all day long with amphibs and trucks.
First is a pic of the Frontier in a drift that is over 14". It's the only machine that would go through that much. Second pic is my Conquest by the lake. The water is only half frozen but a few more days of low temps in the single digits should make for some great amphib ice skating.
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Derek Hubbard
Member
Username: Justmax
Post Number: 42
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 11:01 pm: |
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TODAY IS A SAD DAY
MaxRules is now singing praises about an Argo. I understand that Argo has raised bar for all AATVs, but I hope RI can come back strong with something new for the Maxes |
Mike Maroni
Intermediate Member
Username: Micmac
Post Number: 81
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 11:49 pm: |
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I'm curios for more info on why the 27 hp Max did poorly. I wonder if the larger tires raise the gearing enough so you can't get enough wheel spin. Brandon any additional info on the Max |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 206
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 02:10 am: |
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I think the 27 Hp Max IV is a PSI on the ground issue and a throttle issue. The 12" wide tire on the Max provides more flotation than the 10" Frontier tires and with the light front end, it was kind of like hydroplaning. If Brandon would put about 400/600 pounds down low in the max, it would hug the ground like the Frontier appears to and get traction from the ground. From Brandon's picture, the Frontier has no flotation at all and is just powering through like any traction vehicle would. If one machine is on the dirt and another in the snow, the one on dirt will go better. I don't think gearing or lack of power is the trouble - too much power and no traction is the problem. Low PSI on the ground in certain conditions can be a detriment.
Snow performance depends entirely on the consistency of the snow and will change from day to day. Anyone planning on going through all snow conditions over a foot deep should plan on tracks regardless of the brand of skid steer. It would be interesting to see how snow conditions and vehicle loading affects vehicle performance. |
John Prince
Intermediate Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 67
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 11:15 am: |
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Well, let's see now, maybe we've all forgotten who really is he best snow machine.... |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 182
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 11:50 am: |
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Bet there's no dirt in the frontier's tracks, just snow or a layer of ice under that. So much for:
"but I tell my customers that a Max IV with 26" tires will make it through 11 inches of anything"
I guess that is with the optional 500 pound lead plate in the foor? 
Would be interesting to see a IV or a II with the argo tires in that snow.. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 207
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 12:57 pm: |
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Roger, There doesn't have to be dirt showing to be down to dirt.
I could have sworn that Brandon said 10 to 12 inches and a drift over 14" -- seems like that is fairly close to over 11". He also said the Max went OK, but that he was disappointed in the tire performance.
You forget that Brandon is not a big guy. The 12" wide tire provides at least 20% more flotation than the 10". The weight of the frontier is in the front. Looking at the picture, if that is a 24" tire, the snow is at least 18" deep and the frontier did not climb up on the snow at all. Had that been a picture of the Max (just stopped, with no wheel spin), the front wheels would have been resting on a level higher than the back wheels. Next time Brandon, take a yard stick with you and stick it in the snow before you take the picture.
I agree about seeing the Frontier tires on the Max IV (doubt that they would fit on a Max II). The Frontier outweighs the Max IV by at least 100 pounds. With the narrow tires, it would cut the Max PSI on the ground a fair amount, still not equal to the Frontier, but closer. That's why I suggested the extra weight in the Max to equalize the PSI on the ground. There is no practical way to make the Max as unbalanced in weight as the Argos; besides why would you want to.
Brandon, how about a picture of a 26" Max tire side by side with the Argo Frontier 24" tire so we can see the difference in height and width. Actually, how about a side by side of the Frontier and the 27 HP Max IV from in front of or behind which would also show the difference in bottom and clearance. I might add that I have no idea and it is possible that I will be helping to prove that the Frontier is a superior machine (which I have my doubts). |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 208
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 01:13 pm: |
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John, Great picture, but just how good is a dog team in five or six feet of "cold smoke" powder? |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 183
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 01:56 pm: |
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I'm just having fun with ya Fred, I ride with Max's all the time, occasionally get to drive one, and appreciate what they can do.
Brandon and I measured the frontier tires at 23 1/4-1/2" |
Jerry R. Nuss, Max Dealer in Illinois
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 395
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 02:08 pm: |
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We need to put together a winter ride in a place with lots of snow and get several machines together. My expectation will be nothing conclusive will be decided. But everyone will have fun. It will come down to operator skill and tires. |
steve young
Member
Username: Gearhead
Post Number: 32
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 04:33 pm: |
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BRANDON it is really nice of you to take time out to upload pics and tell us the differences between the different machines,ground clearence,tire size,etc. all under the same circumstances. We would never know unless we had access to them all.We all got to see the FRONTIER in action first here; from your post. THANKS AGAIN |
Missouri's Max and Argo Dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 162
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 05:24 pm: |
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It looks like the 26" Max IV tire is great in the mud but poor in the snow. I bet the IV will go better in snow with the 25" Rawhide III. The 26" tire just doesn't have snow traction but I wouldn't give up the fast water speed or mud traction just for a little more snow plowing. The IV's underbody seems to hold it back considerably more than the Frontier's body. I drove both machines across the front yard in 10-12" of snow, each machine in untouched snow. Hard to believe, but the IV's top speed was barely half of what the Frontier was able to achieve. I varied the throttle on the IV but top speed was top speed. It was like a boat on water, with the Frontier having the V-haul and the IV having a jon boat haul. The resistance difference is easliy noticable. Also, the Frontier does drive on top of the snow pretty well. The picture above was just to show how deep that drift was. Once I drove across it, the machine wasn't that far in. I did in fact take many of my pictures with a yard stick in front of the vehicle.
All in all it was great fun seeing what each machine would do. The IV would get you around and through many places but the Frontier was just a blast to drive. On top of that, I am very suprised in its performance and how it drove so easy and went places nothing else would. I can't wait to see one in the mud next Spring.
Anyone else playing in this snow? |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 184
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 05:41 pm: |
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Wonder if the front edge of the rear skidplate on the IV held it back? |
Jerry R. Nuss, Max Dealer in Illinois
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 396
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 07:48 pm: |
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I doubt the rear skid plate was the hang up. I think it was like Brandon said the way the lower tub has a step that has a flat front. I imagine it was like plowing through the snow and pushing snow instead of going up and packing it down. |
Jerry R. Nuss, Max Dealer in Illinois
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 397
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 07:58 pm: |
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And the tires. The tires specifically designed for an amphibious atv have to have some R&D behind them. Hopefully they will get some out that are non exclusive to Argo. |
Derek Hubbard
Member
Username: Justmax
Post Number: 43
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 08:46 pm: |
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I have a few questions for everyone.
Has anyone put Avenger tires on a Max IV? The Max 26' tire with the tighter spaced lugs might pack up faster with snow and become a slick with the loss of traction. The Argo 24' tire have lugs that are more spaced out for better cleaning? If I am wrong please tell me. I do agree with Brandon on hull design. What works in the water should apply to the snow. How do other machines react in deep snow? Brandon geart pictures ,please post more if you have them?
Derek |
Mike Maroni
Intermediate Member
Username: Micmac
Post Number: 82
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 08:42 am: |
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Brandon,
If you get a chance, I too would like to see a side by side comparison picture from the front of both the Max and Frontier.
Thanks
Mike |
Chuck McGhee
Intermediate Member
Username: Chuck_050382
Post Number: 96
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 07:11 pm: |
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No snow to play in here just cold. I spent two nights this last week to get the argo ready to plow snow and then it misses us.
I agree with Brandon, on not liking the cold, but if its going to be cold it should at least snow. |
Missouri's Max and Argo Dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 163
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 08:21 pm: |
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I will get some side by side pics of the IV and Frontier later this week once the snow is gone.
RI once sold the Max IV with the 25" Rawhide tires. They ride better than the 26" tires but are slower in the water and seem to not go through as much mud. RI doesn't have a 9" rim for that tire now so I'm sure we won't be seeing it anytime soon. RI probably needs to change things in other areas before they worry much about tires. But, maybe they could consider getting ride of the useless 21" and 22" Max IV tires and selling only the 26" tires or 25" tires with tracks. |
Bud
Intermediate Member
Username: Budtx
Post Number: 65
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 01:15 pm: |
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My son Josh and I played in the snow this past weekend. We got a measured 13" at our place.
When I arrived home on Friday evening, I found Josh trying to dig the Max II out of a deep drift. He only has 2 speeds: Stop and Wide Open. He hit the drift at top speed and high centered.
I dragged him out with my truck, and he did not have any more issues.
I got stuck twice the next day, once climbing out of a creek bed and high centering on a log (I winched out) and once hitting a drift at moderate speed. I was able to simply to back out of the drift.
Sorry, but no photos! I always forget to take pictures.
Bud |
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