| Author |
Message |
    
Missouri's Max and Argo Dealer
Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 140
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.69
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 06:42 pm: | 
|
I just picked up the new Argo Frontier. I am thrilled to see a totally new 6x6 on the market. The Frontier has everything the Argo ever needed and more. This machine is done right and it's a beast! Everything on it is new so I don't really know where to start.
The tires are custom designed by Argo and they are 24x10x8. A 24" tire on an 8" rim makes for a really smooth ride. The tread design is similar to a Runamuk, but the tread is much larger. It is the perfect tire for an amphib - smooth ride, excellent water speed, and great in the mud. They have tackled steep lake banks and slick hills with ease (see my action pics below). I'll rate the tires at a perfect 10.
The engine is a 23hp Briggs. It has the recoil pull starter for backup. This engine has the power that the Bigfoot has always needed. Combine that with the new Avenger transmission and this Frontier will really go. Top speed is excellent as I'm sure this is the fastest Argo on both land and water. Also, high gear is all you need. Leave the Frontier in high and you've got excellent speed plus more power than you can use in the tough terrain. Low gear is still there but I have not used it. The machine has more than enough power to go up all hills with ease in high. No more shifting from low to high all the time like in older Argos. I love to here a powerful engine sing, but my only complaint might be that the engine is a bit loud. I'll give the engine and trans a 9 out of 10.
The body is all new. It is similar to the Avenger but different. The wheel base is extended from the old Bigfoot for a smooth ride, better stability on hills, and better approach and departure angles. The extra padded bench seat, extended wheel base, and new tires make this the most comfortable, smoothest riding 6x6 ever. The rear cargo area is the same size as always but passengers have more room because of the redesigned backrest. The Frontier has the large hood like the Avenger but is improved with the two Jeep style latches to hold it down. It also has the easy access drain plugs that you can unscrew from the back of the machine without pulling the floorboard. The dash has new grab handles and a cup holder on each side of the vehicle. Cup holders in a 6x6, what more can we ask for? This thing has one sexy body, I'll give it a 10 out of 10.
One nice surprise was to see axle bearing extensions on both front and rear axles. That makes for long bearing life and one tough machine. The Frontier will run standard plastic Argo tracks or the new rubber track.
What don't I like about this machine? I really don't know. The Frontier has the comfort and ease of use of other Argos with the performance of a Max. Smooth, stable, agile, fast, powerful... It's everything a 6x6 needs to be.
See it in action here:
|
Bud
Intermediate Member
Username: Budtx
Post Number: 53
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 167.230.104.90
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 09:33 am: |
|
Looks good, Brandon. What is different about the tranny in this new Argo? Is it not the "three wheel drive" that I have heard about in the past? |
Chuck McGhee
Intermediate Member
Username: Chuck_050382
Post Number: 60
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 12.170.193.98
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 11:33 am: |
|
So from Argo's web site looks like they removed the Bigfoot Model.
Any word on the cost for a new one? I like the idea of the 23 hp instead of the 18. |
Eddie L. Beddingfield
New member
Username: Argo2003
Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.8
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 11:43 am: |
|
The 6x6 and 8x8 Conquest models are also gone.Looks like if you want a 8x8 you have the Response and Avenger.The 6x6's are the Vanguards and the Frontier. |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 23
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 11:48 am: |
|
Have some detail oriented pictures you can upload??? |
Missouri's Max and Argo Dealer
Intermediate Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 141
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.66
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 01:02 pm: |
|
The new Argo trans operates the same was as the old one with the differential to steer. The advantage of the new trans is the fact that it doesn't slip into three wheel peel nearly as easy as the old trans. I hated that old trans from day one but I'm really liking this one. I never babied this new trans through slippery terrain and it kept all six turning. I had a Bigfoot floating in the lake in high gear at idle. I can reach over the side and hold on to one tire tread with my fingers and stop that side from turning while giving it throttle. I can't hold it on the Frontier.
Available Argo models for 2007 are:
Vanguard, Vanguard 2, Frontier, Response, Avenger, Avenger EFI. Argo prices cannot be posted on the web so just call a dealer about the Frontier. I will tell you they got the price right at less than a grand more than the '06 Bigfoot.
I will have some detailed pictures later today. I posted a link to my action pics in my first post, but they must have been to good for the moderator since he deleted the link. I don't see an option to post pics in this discussion like before but I didn't want to clog it up with a bunch of pics when the simple click of a link will take care of it. |
Richard Clark
Senior Member
Username: Route6x6
Post Number: 161
Registered: 02-1997
Posted From: 74.129.212.121
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 01:34 pm: |
|
Brandon
If you would bother to read the messages about
condition of this board you would see that it states no live links at this time, you were welcome to upload images, we really do not like your comments " I posted a link to my action pics in my first post, but they must have been to good for the moderator since he deleted the link."
Please follow the rules if you want to post here, I was told by Richard to just delete any mesages that had live links, but since you post a lot and are a good 6x6 user, I just deleted the link instead of the message, please give us a break when we are having trouble with hackers as we are providing this board for the entire 6x6 community. Thanks
Sam Keys
ROUTE6x6 MODERATOR
I will cc Richard Clark on these messages |
Chuck McGhee
Intermediate Member
Username: Chuck_050382
Post Number: 61
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 12.170.193.98
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 02:20 pm: |
|
The New Argo tires look like a runamuck with a lot more tread. |
Missouri's Max and Argo Dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 142
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.27
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 02:55 pm: |
|
That's ok Sam, you know I just like to give you trouble. Richard's message about no live links was not yet posted so I didn't know not to post a link. I still can't believe the trouble this board gets with hackers, what gives!?
I see the pic attachment feature is back so I'll just post two pics for now. I'm still working on the detail pics. All the action pics can be found on the Frontier Action page of RealATVs dot com.
 |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 131
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.234.151.232
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 10:07 pm: |
|
Brandon, measure the height on those tires sometime, I'm curious what else they might fit. Too tall for a maxII? Would be nice if they were wider, but had to be made to fit the plastic tracks,I suppose.
I'm also curious what 8 maxIV wheels/tires would do on an avenger..? |
Missouri's Max and Argo Dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 143
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.86
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 10:12 pm: |
|
Here are some up close detailed pics. I've posted several more with the other action pics. What do you guys think? Is it a Max killer?
 |
Eddie L. Beddingfield
New member
Username: Argo2003
Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.199
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 10:26 pm: |
|
Does anyone know what these tires will cost apiece ? They would make a Bigfoot turn easier, not loose much ground clearance, and would be much lighter, with a better ride. Eddie |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 25
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 08:34 pm: |
|
Those were great pictures!!! Couldn't help but run one of them thru photoshop to be your new decal sticker |
Jack Ouellette
Member
Username: Beungood
Post Number: 24
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 64.12.116.199
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 08:56 pm: |
|
What is the Performance and top speed compared to the Avenger and Max 4? Price? |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 27
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 11:44 am: |
|
Also, as I read your explanation about the transmission in the new Frontier not slipping into 3 wh so much, I wondered if that is same transmission Avenger uses?
Also, been some comments about Avenger having enough power uphill, needing to get lower gearing. So, I wondered how the Frontier compared going uphill? All I have around here is steep uphill and need to make this next purchase the right one. After all, Argo isn't exactly giving these machines away for free. |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 133
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.234.106.233
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 12:39 pm: |
|
The frontier uses the new trans same as avenger. One test drive is worth a thousand words, you can mentally debate this decision forever. An 8 will handle steeper uphill and down, and logs better than a 6, period. If you can drive around the logs (you already are in the vanguard) then a sporty/cheaper 6 will make you happy. |
Missouri's Max and Argo Dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 144
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.16
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 01:55 pm: |
|
The cost of the tires has not yet been determined by ODG. My distributor couldn't even buy any yet. The Frontier tire does fit on the Max II. I measure that tire at about 23.25" with 3psi. The Max II would ride smoother and swim better with the Argo tire than the 22" Rawhide III. Also, the Frontier has so much tire clearance that even the 26" Max tire will fit. It wouldn't ride very good but that would be one tough mud machine!
I believe the Max IV 27hp is still the fastest amphib on land... smooth land that is. It wouldn't surprise me if the Frontier could actually be driven faster in most terrain just because it rides so much smoother. The 27hp Max IV with 26" tires is probably still slightly faster in water than the Frontier. It would be close as this Frontier is faster than any other Argo. Land speed in the Argo brochure for the Frontier is 24mph and they put the Avenger at 20mph. That seems a bit below actual speed, but the 4mph difference is probably accurate. I think the Frontier is the fastest 4-stroke Argo ever, although the Bigfoot with the H trans is real fast (but to under powered to do anything in high gear).
Glad you enjoyed the pictures. Everyone have a great Labor Day holiday. |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 134
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.234.106.233
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 02:34 pm: |
|
Thanks for the info, Brandon. Will be interesting to see if the new tires stay on the bead as well as the runamuks. I like to run less air in the back. Is the max 8" wheel 8 or 8.5 wide? The k rim might have the rim exposed a little more on the narrower tire than the narrow 7" wide argo wheel |
Mike Maroni
Intermediate Member
Username: Micmac
Post Number: 58
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 204.188.172.194
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 08:20 pm: |
|
one thing I noticed that is nice is the valve stem is deep inside th wheel protecting it. |
Eddie L. Beddingfield
New member
Username: Argo2003
Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.65
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 10:49 pm: |
|
Brandon,Thanks for the info,Pass the price along when you here something,as I may want to convert to this tire and rim combination on my Bigfoot.Eddie |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 29
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 05:16 pm: |
|
I know about the test rides etc. Unfortunately the distributor here sits on a paved cul de sac. So who cares how any of these vehicles perform on pavement? thats what I have a Toyota for?
I pretty much agree without being on one that an 8 wheeler is going to go over obstacles better than a 6. Just stands to reason, shorter wheelbase, only 6 tires, you are going to bounce over with 6 and more easily teeter totter over with an 8.
I do go around big obstacles now with Van. But, generally that means going off the trail, either steeply up or down, a steep sidehill U Turn to get back to trail. That is every bit as dangerous if not more so than rolling over the top of a log. And, I see plenty of downed logs, rains with a passion here, got 50 some inches last year inside of 3 months, takes out culverts and trees and even washes the trails in places.
The other issue about the 8 wheeler is that its longer, a bit more trailer to hold it, sometimes a trail is going to be too narrow and that extra foot or so means backing up which is often more dangerous that doing a pivot U.
Its a toss of the coin for me, won't decide till I get back and see them both together. |
Jerry R. Nuss, Max Dealer in Illinois
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 347
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 70.106.220.39
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 01:08 am: |
|
If you are really serious about buying one a decent dealer would take you out for a real test ride. I load one up on the trailer and take the customer out run it through an area where they an ride along over challenging areas. Then after they have ridden I let them take the sticks.
You are absolutely right looking at one on the showroom does no good besides let you pick based on what you like from what you see and not what it will do.
I have never seen anyone with an eight wheel Argo be handicapped by the length. On rides with six and 8 wheelers the 8 wheelers wiggle right through between trees.
Since you are hauling clients the 8 wheel version seems like the better choice for comfort and seating position. |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 30
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 03:00 pm: |
|
Thanks. I haven't quite made that decision yet, six vs eight. I've had of course five years on the Van six in pretty inhospitable country, know no matter what I buy its going to be a lot better. I like what I'm hearing about the Frontier having lots of uphill pull power. Sounds like with Avenger I'd best buy it with the lower gearing.
That turn around comment good to hear. The issue is, as I'm sure you know, there you are, a dead end on a narrow trail, one side you back into the embankment, the other you turn into a frisbie with about 100' of vacant air in front of you. You would like to make a U turn but its tricky. On my Van II you got to be under way, momentum, to have a chance at it. You don't want to go into reverse because you don't have a lot of room and its twice the trouble as a easy pivot U in the middle of the road.
I liked what I saw "on the pavement" with the Avenger, looked like even being longer it would pretty much do a pivot U turn. I'm hoping the Frontier does the same.
All of the above just gets a bit more tense, by the way, when you have a customer who's probably never even ridden a quad with you. That U turn has to be effortless. |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 34
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 11:29 am: |
|
Test drove new Frontier yesterday. Since it utilizes same transmisson as Avenger, it appear as though you could brake one side yet apply power in a stopped situation and continue turn?
Also, anybody had any experiece with B&S 23 hp engine in steep ascents(60%+...I do a lot of that unfortunately living here). I know with my 16hp had to had carb rejetted, flot changed so I would cut out engine? |
Missouri's Max and Argo Dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 146
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.65
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 09:34 pm: |
|
John, you can turn while stopped on all Argos. There is quite a bit of resistance trying to do that so the machine really just needs the power to overcome that. Argo has less power to the tires when turning because of the differential. The Frontier's 23hp engine and Avenger trans helps a great deal for doing a stopped turn so that's probably what you noticed. All Argos can still do it.
The 23hp engine does have a completely different carb from the older 16hp and 18hp engines. I am really hoping it completely fixed the Argo's fuel starvation problem on steep hills. Right now it looks like it has been fixed. I took the Frontier up some steep hills and it did great. So far so good, but I'll have to wait for a demo Frontier to really know. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 215
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.208.194.156
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 09:42 pm: |
|
I looked long and hard at the new Frontier at the International Plowing Match last Thurs. Do experienced people think that by venting (making holes) in the brake discs it will not be a problem to eliminate the brake cooling fans? Great that Briggs increased the alt. output by a lot! Surely the pop riveted body joint that makes a 6 wheel out of an 8 wheel body will not be the case for long. Everything else looks very good to me. John Prince, you use your machine for bussiness,The Avenger rides like no other machine, it makes passengers comfortable, it has proved itself at many rides, and the 31 E.F.I. is not affected by altitude or incline. I don,t think it's sporty enough for everybody but it sounde like the machine made for your purposes to me. Then again my 2 cents is worth about that. W.Philip Cox
Brandon , what do you think about the Frontier's brakes? |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 216
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.208.194.156
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 09:46 pm: |
|
I looked long and hard at the new Frontier at the International Plowing Match last Thurs. Do experienced people think that by venting (making holes) in the brake discs it will not be a problem to eliminate the brake cooling fans? Great that Briggs increased the alt. output by a lot! Surely the pop riveted body joint that makes a 6 wheel out of an 8 wheel body will not be the case for long. Everything else looks very good to me. John Prince, you use your machine for bussiness,The Avenger rides like no other machine, it makes passengers comfortable, it has proved itself at many rides, and the 31 E.F.I. is not affected by altitude or incline. I don,t think it's sporty enough for everybody but it sounde like the machine made for your purposes to me. Then again my 2 cents is worth about that. W.Philip Cox
Brandon , what do you think about the Frontier's brakes? |
liflod
Advanced Member
Username: Liflod
Post Number: 105
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 151.201.211.103
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 02:11 pm: |
|
I was checking out the new drain plugs. It looks like they could be adapted to my Max IV or any other machine by drilling a hole and bolting them on. |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 35
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 02:23 pm: |
|
Yes I am also considering the 31 EFI. What I liked about the Frontier best of all, frankly, was the ease of access into the front seat, can literally pull myself into it instead of stepping into it. That is of such interest it may overcome all else as I have bum knee and need to minimize ingress/egress.
I agree 8 wheels has to be a better ride and I guessed also that the fuel injection a complete way around the starvation to the carb situation, though I easily got around that with my 16hp by rejetting and resetting the float. Of course, that's after coming to a dangerous stop mid hill and having to back down that hill. One always learns the hard way.
I have a few situations I encounter where I can be at 60% slope, go briefly to 75% and almost beyond where gunning the engine will often see the rear or front wheels off the ground. Sustaining that kind of slope maybe 200 to 300 feet is a test of nerves and machine. I don't go there for the fun of it, believe me. One of these days I'll put together the topo of that trail so you will be better able to visualize it. |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 137
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.234.145.121
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 05:50 pm: |
|
Seems the drain plugs would work on anything, Lance. They'd be a little more exposed to rocks and stuff.. the avenger body has a recessed pocket for them.
No disc brake fan? that's hard to believe.
Have my 18hp briggs engine out and saw the puny stator winding in the charging system, I'm surprised it puts out 16 amps. Wondering if we can retrofit the 20/50 alternator hardware to the 16 amp models. Would be nice if all it took was a different stator. But dunno, probably a regulator too if the stator swapped. Not clear if a heavier wound stator would make more amps. In a car, the stator windings were the same and the size of the rotor windings (magnet) made the difference in alternator output rating. Briggs has fixed magnets in the flywheel outside of the stator instead of a rotor winding. |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 36
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 10:04 am: |
|
Here is the topo route that is probably steepest run I've had to make. also including picture of customer getting out, deciding he'd rather walk  |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 37
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 10:14 am: |
|
The steepest rise in that route is 120' elevation over a 230' run. I don't know exactly what that is in degrees or per cent. Fred would probably know. All I can say is the wheels are bucking in the air, the passenger has to walk, and the carb better not starve the fuel. |
Chuck McGhee
Intermediate Member
Username: Chuck_050382
Post Number: 63
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 12.170.193.98
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 10:37 am: |
|
John,
Since you are hauling customers, maybe an avenger with the rear bench and a full roll cage would be a good idea. Then you could also enclose the cab for the cold winter rides. |
liflod
Advanced Member
Username: Liflod
Post Number: 107
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 151.201.211.103
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 10:40 am: |
|
The more you post, the more it looks like the EFI Avenger is for you. The 8x8 does not bounce as much as the 6x6 going up hills. The EFI will not starve going up hill, and if it does, the 8x8 will be much more stable backing down a hill. Somewhere in this message board are pictures of Roger Smith and Greg Orr climbing hills in 8x8s. If you get to watch either of them in person, you will see the hill climbing advantage of the extra length. You will loose traction before you flip over and most of the time you'll avoid the situation the 8x8 can't climb.If you add a roll cage, you can use it to help you get in and out of the machine. Also sounds like a business expense  |
Chuck McGhee
Intermediate Member
Username: Chuck_050382
Post Number: 64
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 12.170.193.98
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 10:46 am: |
|
120' rise in a 230' run is a 52.17% slope or 27.55 degrees |
Jack Ouellette
Member
Username: Beungood
Post Number: 25
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 205.188.116.8
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 03:02 pm: |
|
What type of business or activity are you using this machine for? |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 193
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 03:31 pm: |
|
John, I could have sworn that we went off road on stuff steeper than what you state is your steepest. Chuck is right with the math: it takes 120 feet of rise in 120 feet of run to be a 45 degree slope (100 percent grade). As far a machine limitations or causes for concern, I don't think you have any. Any engine or model should not have fuel starvation problems (assuming a clean system). I still think your tire pressure is part of your handling concern. The bigger the machine, the more secure people will feel in it and the heavier it is, the smoother it will ride (again assuming correct tire pressure). |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 138
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.234.159.4
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 04:19 pm: |
|
Fred, the argo's have had a common problem with fuel starvation. I thought it was a settled issue that the cause was the briggs vacuum fuel pump wouldn't pull gas from the tank on a steep incline. I have raised the float slightly with no affect, only an electric pump cured the problem. Maybe it's a briggs issue, as now I think about it I've never seen Greg's avengers starve when he get vertically inclined. Maybe the kohler pumps better. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 217
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.209.144.9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 08:08 pm: |
|
Roger- I guess I didn,t ask that question very well. The Argo Frontier that I saw ,did not have a brake cooling fan. The rep. said that with the new "vented" discs a fan is no longer required. Do you think this will be the case? W.Philip Cox |
Missouri's Max and Argo Dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 147
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.100
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 09:40 pm: |
|
It will be interesting to see if the Frontier will end up needing a brake cooling fan. I can only hope they put enough time on the machine and abused it like most owners will. The steering brakes work very well but the hand lever brake has never been very good on the Argo handle bar steering. It may be even worse on the Frontier as it is almost useless. I rarely use that brake so it isn't much of a problem unless maybe you needed a 'panic stop'. Maybe they'll come up with a new brake soon. |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 38
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 03:19 pm: |
|
So how do you brake the frontier going down a steep hill? On my Van II I am in lower gear, keeping up a minimum rpm for backpressure and using the sticks to brake? Are you saying that the handbrake on the frontier is not as effective as say sticks or do you use backpressure of engine also???? |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 39
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 03:23 pm: |
|
A couple more replies:
Fred, could be we were on steeper stuff. I hesitate to think I was on steeper as I wondering if I should have my head examined.
Avenger I think would be better but the price point on the Frontier pretty much decides the issue for me. I hope everybody's wrong about B&S engine still starving with the latest model and I hope it goes downhill at least as safely as the Van II. Maybe I misunderstood the hand lever vs steering brake. Somebody maybe can explain. |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 40
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 08:43 pm: |
|
Missouri Max and Argo: I am trying to picture the difference in my mind between the hand lever brake on the Argo handle bar vs the steering brakes? Since I use sticks now, the steering brakes can be pulled back simultaneously for a good brake. But on the newer version, Frontier and the rest, it appears as though you can only pull back on one side or the other, not both at once? So I presummed the hand squeezed brake did both at once? Have I missed something here? I know how to use engine back pressure in low gear just fine, but I'll be heading down some very steep inclines and am hoping you can set me straight??? |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 139
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.234.97.90
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 10:20 pm: |
|
That's right John. Question seems to be how good is the hand brake. |
Chuck McGhee
Intermediate Member
Username: Chuck_050382
Post Number: 65
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 12.170.193.98
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 08:09 am: |
|
I know on my bigfoot the hand brake works very well. When I first got the Argo and wasn't used to it I actual braked hard enough to do a stoppie. Going across the yard in high gear and grabbing all the brake. (my dog ran out in front of me) |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 41
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 09:36 am: |
|
Going down a 25 to 30 degree slope(50 to 60%+ incline), it is white knuckles all the way. You are trying to crawl at 1 or 2 mph max. You have to be in low gear, back pressure on engine working, and you have to be using the brakes all the way, I have the sticks all the way back on Van II. Are you doing that with the handbrake? With the new single handle bar system, you can't pull both sides back simultaneously like the old sticks unless I'm missing something here, and if you pulled one side back, you are braking one side and turning? So, what is operating those brakes? I presumed the handbrake squeeze on the handlebar operated all those brakes? So does squeezing that handbrake operate all brakes on all wheels just like I was pulling both sticks back on older system? For me that is crucial question.
Hopefully somebody can answer that out there. I suspect all the handlebar systems are the same so it doesn't matter whether big foot or frontier or avenger for that matter. |
Chuck McGhee
Intermediate Member
Username: Chuck_050382
Post Number: 67
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 12.170.193.98
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 10:58 am: |
|
Squeezing the hand brake applies both brakes which is the same as pulling back on both sticks. Turning the handle bar one way is the same as pulling back on only one lever, causing the machine to turn. |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 42
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 11:04 am: |
|
Thanks for quick reply. I guess I have gotten pretty used to the two sticks though I admit that pulling sticks back to brake, slight release of one side or other to make downhill turn all the while keeping rpm high enough to engine back pressure is no mean trick on a steep incline. I can't imagine the new arrangement any more difficult, just different arrangment. Though you know the sticks had one nice attribute: the customers figured you were some kind of heavy equipment operator to run the thing. Now I see it looks like every japanese quad out there-anybody can do it...except maybe when the incline looks like a rollercoaster. |
Chuck McGhee
Intermediate Member
Username: Chuck_050382
Post Number: 69
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 12.170.193.98
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 11:22 am: |
|
with the new handle bar it is easy to drive how ever operating smoothly still takes some practice. My friends that ride quads haven't been smooth when they try and drive it. |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 43
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 03:31 pm: |
|
It took me a number of hours to feel 100% with sticks, especially in very steep terrain. I expect a bit of a learning curve but I am thinking it will be easier than sticks.
Back to this brake business, what everybody's been saying about needing cooling on brakes is sure to apply to me. As I get into very steep country, I have to keep rpm as high as possible in low gear for back pressure but not so high as it makes me go faster. Then I'm holding brakes all the way, just letting back enough to go down. I have been in steep enough terrain with fresh spring grass that I have actually started to slide even though I was moving. That is defintely over the top too steep. |
Chuck McGhee
Intermediate Member
Username: Chuck_050382
Post Number: 70
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 12.170.193.98
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 04:02 pm: |
|
John, from the sounds of it, if the property was a clients you would have a good place to have a ride so we all could test ourselves and our machines.
I have actually been thinking about beefing up the cooling fan some. Because I figure if it needs it for the simple stuff most people use these machines on, it REALLY needs it for what I do with mine. |
Chuck McGhee
Intermediate Member
Username: Chuck_050382
Post Number: 71
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 12.170.193.98
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 04:04 pm: |
|
that should be if the property wasn't a client's.
proof reading after hitting post doesn't work very good |
John Prince
Member
Username: Jp400
Post Number: 44
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.231.136.240
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 05:27 pm: |
|
I always have full access to one or more ranches so no problem for myself or another rider. Smallest ranch now is 600 acres, largest 1400. And none of them even know what the word "flat" means. |
My Favorite Machine: Talk about you favorite ATV and Why.