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Kurt Wagner
New member
Username: Karmasoft
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.100.203.25
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 06:46 pm: | 
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Hi,
My wife and I recently bought a cabin in the Wasatch mountains of Utah. I spent hours and HOURS comparing a side by side type ATV (Mule, Rhino, etc.) to 6x6 / 8x8 such as Argo and Max.
We ended up buying a Mule Trans and Litefoot track system. It works Ok but doesn't get up the steep driveway, in deep snow where our cabin is. Very disappointing. Its a lot of fun and easy to use but doesn't get the job done. We get about halfway up the driveway, but it turns steep and the mule w/ tracks just dig in from there.
So I bought a snowcat. Our budget was $5,000 so I got the best I could for that price. Actually its pretty cool but its late 1950's early 60's design is pretty uncivilized. The previous owner resotred it, and everything works but its loud, a rough ride, smelley, and overall just plain harsh. It does get all the way up the driveway however, and so far, there isn't anywhere it can't go.
But my wife isn't happy with it. She doesn't want to go to the cabin because she dreads being a passenger in the snowcat. She enjoyed riding in the mule w/ tracks, but of course, not getting all the way up the driveway is unacceptable. I don't blame her. Driving the snowcat is fun, but somewhat nerve wracking.
So now we're considering selling the mule w/ tracks AND the snowcat. I feel like I'm back to square one.  Would a 6x6 or 8x8 work for us? Keep in mind the snow is DEEP, at least 6 to 8 feet deep, and the maybe a foot of powder on top of that.
Our neighbors on both sides of us have snowcats. The neighbor behind us has an argo conquest, but their driveway isn't as steep. Please help.  |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 152
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 10:15 pm: |
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Kurt, You don't say how steep is steep. What I would do is get your neighbor who has the argo to come try your driveway. If he can make it up then you can feel safe getting an argo; if he can almost make it up, you can feel safe getting a Max. If your drive is 30 degrees or less, I think you will be okay with a Max (you might have to go up it almost empty once to make an imprint).
A max IV 900T (out of production) or a max IV 950T will have more ground speed (momentum) than any of the other skid steers (as will an 850T max II if what you need to carry will fit in the max II). The new max IV track has 1" lugs and should climb much better than the 3/8" lugs we have been using.
This all boils down to PSI on the ground and balance of the machine - meaning total weight of the machine (and contents) divided by contact area of the drive system on the snow. None of the tracked quads will give the performance of the tracked skid steers (and of course, Max will give the best performance of the skid steers with the Argo Avenger almost competitive). |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 136
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.209.98.55
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 10:37 pm: |
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Kurt if you contact a guy on this site who signs himself as Brian in Fabulous Utah he may be near you and we know that he has a cnquest that he is very happy with. W.Philip |
Kurt Wagner
New member
Username: Karmasoft
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 170.148.92.18
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 12:35 pm: |
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Thanks for the responses. I'm not sure how steep in terms of angle. If it was stretched out in ski terms it would be a black diamond.
That's a good suggestion regarding my neighbor's conquest. I know they would let us try it on our driveway because they let us test drive it last October when we were shopping. I haven't seen them all winter though, but I will look out for them.
Short of actual experimentation how will 6x6 / 8x8 with tracks compare with a snowcat in performance? Here is an approximation of our snowcat - the cab in the one pictured here is about 66% the size of ours. I think the track however is similar in dimension, ours might be a little longer.
http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/VE_Photos&CISOPTR=185 4&REC=15
Just by eye-balling it, do you think a 6x6 / 8x8 could climb as well in deep snow as the snowcat? I would guess not, but I don't really know. Clearly the snowcat is heavier...
Also, we haul wood, gear, cargo, people, etc to and from the cabin. I realize the 6x6 / 8x8's don't have the "on board" cargo capability of the snowcat. Are there towables people use with their tracked 6x6 / 8x8 for hauling cargo in the snow?
Will definitely look out for Brian, thank you for the tip! |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 154
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 01:27 pm: |
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Kurt, I can't tell much from a picture (neat machine though). My guess is a tracked Max will go where a snow cat will go. You won't be able to haul as much in a skid steer. Need to compare weight, track (contact area) and horsepower. I have seen lots of different sleds to pull behind with cargo. How much you can tow will depend on snow consistency, traction and amount of slope. It takes traction or momentum, sometimes both to get one where one wants to go. Usually, the more used a trail or road is, the better. |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 4.182.135.104
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 07:29 pm: |
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Hi Kurt,
We have a cabin in the mountains in California. We used to get in by snowmobile but switched to a Conquest with tracks last year. Our Conquest can go where the snowmobiles got stuck, the only place I had trouble is on a very steep hill that had ice with slush on top. In the winter of 2005 the snow conditions were terrible 6feet of snow then drop straight down to the dirt where the snow got washed out, the snowmobilers were rolling there machines over and the snowcat was a very rough ride due to rideing up high but are Argo was comfy while we hauled in other families and pulled out snowmobiles that got stuck
attached is a picture of a ride that year due to the heavy wet snow there were down trees everywhere
Brian |
philipatmaxfour (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 216.209.98.55
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 10:30 pm: |
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Maybe you could ask your neighbor behind you to give you a ride up your driveway in his conQuest. You can,t be too shy if you,ve got the nerve to admit on this site that you bought a MULE TRANS. I,ll bet he,s so proud of his Argo that he,ll be delighted to give you a ride. W. Philip Cox |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 24.230.110.143
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 08:41 pm: |
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kurt, i have a maxII with 16hp i have the tracks that richard sells the plastic type. I use my max to pull my ice shack I have the sled type of ice shack it is about 6 feet long and 2 1/2 feet wide. with all my fishing gear it wieghs about 250. i take two other people with me and their fishing gear. my max has no problem with deep snow and a lot of wieght. you can buy even bigger sleds like the one i have 8 feet x 3 feet you can get the sled and hitch for less than 200 bucks. you will not set any speed records but with trcks you can go almost anywhere. they also make heavy canvas covers for these sleds and i love mine as it keeps snow and slush out of my sled. |
Kurt Wagner
New member
Username: Karmasoft
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 67.42.23.200
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 10:16 pm: |
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Hi,
Philip, pretty funny. Not only will I admit I bought a Mule Trans, I admit it was a HUGE mistake!
Here is a picture back in the first few days of winter, the cabin in the background is not ours, its the one next door.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b296/karmasoft/Mulecat.jpg
After four months of not using the Mule, I went today to start it up and see if it could get to our cabin. To my amazement it started right up, awesome. Less awesome was the fact someone tried to steal it from the winter parking lot, as the key hole for the ignition was pried out, and wires below the dash were loose. However, my key could reach back to the switch, and the battery wasn't dead. It started right up.
So my wife and I travelled 1.5 of the 2 miles back to the road where our cabin is. All of that distance was plowed, and basically dirt road since the snow on the roadway has melted. No problem for the Mule. Unfortunately, the last .5 mile to our cabin is not plowed, and there is a 5! foot differance between the plowed road and the unplowed. The Mule couldn't make it up the "ramp" so to speak. It made it 80% of the way, but then just dug in. Crap!!!!!!
This vehicle would be great in the right circumstance, but the snow is just too much for it where our cabin is.
Here's a couple pictures of our snowcat:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b296/karmasoft/TrackMaster_FacingSouthWithFrie nds0.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b296/karmasoft/Trackmaster03.jpg
The road from the winter parking lot to the unplowed portion of our road is dirt / mud. The mule made it all the way through the dirt / mud, but got stuck in the snow ramp, where the unplowed portion of the road begins. I had to dig for 15 minutes to get it unstuck.
I don't think its a good idea to drive ths snowcat on the unplowed dirt / mud road. It probably would be all right, but I just don't know. We *need* an all season vehicle.
I'll be calling my neighbor with the Argo Conquest tomorrow to see if he can get up the ramp, and back to his cabin! We're crossing our fingers! |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 160
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.208.194.120
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:29 pm: |
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Kurt, Thank you so much for the pictures. When I got tired of trying to find the snowmobile I looked at the mountains in the extreme left rear of thet picture, beautiful! I sure hope that you are able to find the machine that you need. W. Philip |
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