| Author |
Message |
    
Anonymous
Posted From: 69.204.93.70
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 09:51 pm: | 
|
I have 13 acres of waterfront forest. Some marsh, but lots of hills. Soil is sandy and soft. Most of the time I will be transporting people.
I've been leaning towards Argo just for the extra people carrying capacity, but does the differential type drive hurt them on the hills? Would a Max be better at maintaining traction? |
Sean McConnell
Junior Member
Username: Bookm
Post Number: 19
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 65.93.215.175
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 01:24 pm: |
|
The key to Argo's success is it's transmission. Remember, Argo was a result of Ontario Drive & Gears' expertise in Gear and Shaft manufacturing for automotive and commercial use. ODG took their massive knowledge about gear systems and built a pretty cool maching around their bulletproof little tranny. Most of the Argo's from the early seventies still have their original "box", and aside from worn shifter positioners, still perform as new.
Everything else is basic "stuff" others could buy or fabricate. I'm sure the T20 is a quality piece too, but if I'm back in the "thick stuff", I want to know that the manufacturer of my machine has more into it than just good purchasing and assembly departments.
Just down the road from the Argo plant, they built the Roughriders (late 60's). The drive system (not including the engine, which is under the seat) takes up the whole back end of the machine... Belts, pulley, shafts, etc. all over the place. It's a hoot to see! No wonder Argo promplty put them (and most others) out of business after just a couple years with their planetary system, LOL. |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon Price)
Intermediate Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 55
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.26
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 04:06 pm: |
|
I don't think Argo's success has anything to do with their tranmission. Their marketing is top notch, and they do a great job at fooling customers into thinking they are buying an Argo with "all wheel drive" or a drive system that "provides continuous torque to all axles." The Argo trans is the *only* real downfall of that vehicle. It is almost perfect but they won't swallow their pride and admit that transmission just plain sucks. And no, it's not bulletproof by any means.
The Max IV is the best hill climber in the amphibious world. The 26" tires give better traction than the Rawhides and the bigger engine allows more speed and power for hills. 6x6s are at a disadvange for hill climbing compared to quads. Loose or slippery hills require lots of wheel spin and speed. Our 6x6s just don't have the horsepower for that wheel spin like the quads, but the Max IV 27hp comes close. It has the power and traction plus the most important thing for any off road vehicle... true six wheel drive. |
Sean McConnell
Member
Username: Bookm
Post Number: 21
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 69.159.216.86
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 09:05 am: |
|
Argo FAQ re. drive system. Perhaps a "cut-&-paste of this thread to their "contact us" page could provide better technical info on the subject.
http://argoatv.com/products/faqs.asp?QID=1191
I don't quite understand the "continuous torque to all axles" arguement. Seems to me that if you're turning on a dime with EITHER machine, you have just eliminated all torque to one side.
I read in another thread that if you high-centre one side of an Argo off the ground, only the air-borne tires will turn. I've never tried it, but even if this were so, wouldn't I just apply brake to the air-borne side to transfer drive to the other side? Seems to me, regulating torque from one side or the other (via the brakes) is the basic control function on both machines.
In our company (Land Surveying), our Argo's are used by many different crews, and NO one (including me) has ever complained about a lack of drive on one side or the other. They do, however, compliment them on the cargo space in back. Putting the power train up front just makes good sense for hauling equipment and/or passengers.
There's a lot of Argo customers reading this thread, and to suggest they were all "fooled" into buying an inferior product is a pretty bold statement. To say an Argo transmission "sucks" seems a tad unprofessional, too.
But "anonymous" asked for opinions, and that's what he's getting, LOL. For people-carrying capacity, there's no doubt an Argo8x8 is most suitable (in MY opinion). |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon Price)
Intermediate Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 56
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.81
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 01:07 pm: |
|
I would agree the Argo is a great commercial use vehicle. It goes most places you need to go, but fewer places you 'want' to go for fun. It really wouldn't bother me so much if ODG wasn't in complete denial of how the transmission operates. My quote of "continuous torque to all axles" comes directly from the Argo in Action video. I quote this from Sean's link above:
"All models are `All-Wheel Drive`. At no time are any of our axles allowed to `free-wheel`. This means that the operator has complete control of all 6 or 8 wheels, all the time."
Who can honestly say that is not a total lie? When traction is different from left to right, a differential gives power to one side and the other FREE WHEELS in neutral! Sure, you can use your steering brakes to transfer power to the other side. This works fine for being high centered, but not for mud. You can transfer power left to right with your brakes but having power on one side or the other just doens't work in mud. Not to mention the huge power loss a vehicle has while steering with a differential.
Argo has changed their steering for the better with the handle bar replacing the levers. With that change and the changes in the Avenger and Centaur, I think ODG is slowly and QUIETLY trying to sneek away from the differential transmission. Let's hope. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Intermediate Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 97
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 03:18 pm: |
|
Brandon, let's not forget the saying: "when given lemons, make lemonade". Argo is trying to make it sound like a bad thing if a set of axles free wheels at the driver's command. When one is wasting major horsepower every time they execute a turn, it only makes good marketing sense to try to make that appear "good". People who drive argos do not know that all skid steers are not laborious to drive (ever notice how those who have used both always say how much fun a max is to drive, how sporty and athletic they feel?). What I really don't understand is why when the machine is underpowered to start with that they would promote wasting what little they do have. It's just like the two speed tranny - if your machine won't climb a hill in one gear, you put in a two speed tranny (gear it down to a crawl for it to perform) and market that as a "good" thing. I will have to admit that for a first time user, the argo appears easier to operate and it is more like a conventional vehicle; but why saddle yourself with an inferior performer for however long you are to own the vehicle just because it will take a while to learn how to operate it? Take turning for example; if you can't make a smooth easy turn with your machine, you tell people that turns are suppose to be rough and jerky. I will never understand why Argo doesn't offer bigger engines and bigger tires, especially when hauling cargo is what they sell. Of course, I guess when you are really selling a little pickup (that lacks the PSI on the ground numbers to really go most anywhere) performance isn't that important. Has argo made the winch standard equipment yet? I sell the winch package as insurance; and think it is amusing when I talk to my customers a year or so later that most have never used the winch. If they have, it has been to pull something else out or to drag something to the machine; hardly ever to get the machine out of a bind. Wonder how many argo owners can say that?
For the fellow who started this thread, you speak of soft sandy hills. What is the grade you want to travel over? A sandy environment is tough and you will want the biggest, widest tire you can find. You will also want as much ground speed as possible. Better check out both machines prior to purchase (at least check all the specs and buy the one with the lowest PSI on the ground). It is possible you will need a solid rubber track if the sand is too deep. Being able to put more people in the machine really isn't an advantage if the machine won't go where you want to go with all the people in it. Please remember that PSI on the ground is determined by total machine weight divided by total contact area of tires or track and that the design of and balance of the machine affects actual PSI on the ground. |
david berger
Advanced Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 197
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.145.227.196
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 04:33 pm: |
|
brandon i wish you hadent sliped with the "true six wheel drive" bit in another post, up till then i was with you some,(nether max or argo has it)
and who was it that wound all this shitstorm up again anyhoot, i must comend fred for his 1000 words without stooping to the "true six wheel drive" statement like you, however i beleave this copy and paste:
(and the changes in the Avenger and Centaur, I think ODG is slowly and QUIETLY trying to sneek away from the differential transmission. Let's hope)
im not certin but i do beleave it is the same trany in the avenger but has diferent controls before the trany.
the centors not a slow quiot sneak, it's a totaly diferent drive altogether witch i might add is or is a shit load cloaser to "true six wheele drive"
(adgil as hell abeit as heavy as a tank)
someone correct me if thats wrong,
don't get me wrong , i drive t-20's myself, have said i found em clumbsy and clunky but i have found a way to drive them i can live with,
i liked erly attex tranys and amphicats ect..
much smother and controlable.
but the few times i tryed argo's i found them maniacle and hard to predict stearing whise.
god love thoughs who put up with them,
but none of us can truthfuly say that one is better than another. there diferent as apples and orenges< (misspelled)i have bin to a good number of organized events now and also some privet rides as well with people with all kinds of aatv's
im not alone im shure in observing that everyone made it threw same places ect..
it was more the driver and in at least my case maintanence that made any diference between wether they made the whole trail or weekend or not.
nothing whatsoever to do with design, ..so lets just let this stupid thing die.. what say you all??
p.s. please parden me i havent time today to re-read and correct mispellings ect..thanks! |
Dennis F. Saskowski
Member
Username: Sasko
Post Number: 34
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 67.23.117.26
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 04:36 pm: |
|
Anonymous,looks like things are getting a little sticky and competitive here.Both makes of machines would serve you well.Get the biggest motor available,especially if you run tracks.Argos look a bit more finished and and higher -tech,Max is more simpler in mechanics and looks and in my neighborhood cheaper in price. |
Dan Taylor
New member
Username: Dt5428
Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.14.169.110
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 05:31 pm: |
|
Fred,Fred,Fred,Once again I read your postings and may indeed agree with many of your points of view. But once again I have just visted your website and cannot find one picture of your max in deep snow. For that matter I do not see any of your pictures that are doing anything an Argo can not due. I think you need to stop doing math and start taking pictures.I can send you a few pictures of our Argo stuck. If you say for one minutes you cannot stick a Max then I suggest you have not put your Max in that type of terrain.I will say in closing that if Max and Argo would combine the best of each machine you would have one very nice piece of equipment. So get off of your high horse (Max) and put your machine to the test so we can see some pictures.If you remember I asked you several months ago about the pictures on your webstie.
Later,Dan |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 200.248.64.15
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 10:18 pm: |
|
Dvid Barger,
Your spelling is terible. tri typing in a progrim lick your emale or word procesor and check for spelin mistakes than clik and pste it to the form. |
philip w.cox
Intermediate Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 51
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.208.194.49
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 12:36 am: |
|
UNREGISTERED GUEST: You are correct. David,s
spelling is terrible, but he takes the time to post often and is available for technical advice
and it,s so nice when people tell us who they are.W. Philip |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 200.248.64.15
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 05:01 am: |
|
Phillip,
I was just trying to be funny and help David out. The reason I know how to spell-check and paste is I spell worse that David!
David I sincerely apologize if I offended you it wasn't meant that way. Please keep all your good info coming. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Intermediate Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 98
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 11:55 am: |
|
Dan, I will work on getting better pictures. Most of the time when I am in trying conditions, I am by myself and that doesn't make getting pictures of a max in action very easy. I have also been in enough bad situations that I seldom get in a fix anymore. I'm getting old enough that some things just aren't fun anymore.
The math is important - at least making the right decision before you purchase is. I really don't care what skid steer someone buys or uses. What really bothers me is when a party buys a product expecting certain abilities and then finds out he didn't get what he thought he was getting. I can't force people to do their homework, but when I see low hour machines for sale (that are not dealer units) I know that someone doesn't like what he just bought. My job as a dealer is (to the best of my ability) to have satisfied customers. I need to educate them as much as I can about the machine before they buy from me and I also need to educate them after the sale on how to get the most out of their purchase. I am only aware of one customer that I failed and we voided the transaction.
I don't mean to fuel the fires, but I know the max line is a superior performer (excepting only the new argo avenger maybe!) to any and all skid steers on the market today. I also know that not everybody needs the abilities of a max in order to enjoy a skid steer and have it do what they want to do with it. |
Eddie Beddingfield (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 207.117.33.134
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 12:25 pm: |
|
Fred, How can you say superior machines when there is at least 10 to 1 failures in your machines. Bearings,frames cracking, trans that need adjustment,and usually leak. If you would actually open your eyes and look at the other machines,you would see how they arent the pieces of crap you think they are. Wow I got thru that without mentioning Max or Argo!!! Crap I just did.... |
Eddie Beddingfield (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 207.117.33.134
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 12:29 pm: |
|
Brandon, If you are trying the Sowerwine sales strategy ,Everything other than a Max is junk ,quit it doesnt work. |
Dan Taylor
New member
Username: Dt5428
Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.14.169.110
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 12:30 pm: |
|
Fred,have someone follow you in an Argo and while they are stuck they can take pictures of you. Then you can take pictures of them being stuck.You could kill two birds with one stone.
If I ever make it to Montana for a hunt I will look you up. We end up in Colorado most of the time.
Later,Dan |
Sean McConnell
Member
Username: Bookm
Post Number: 22
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 69.159.216.86
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 12:36 pm: |
|
Look, I don't want to argue about this any more than the next guy, but I have too address the previous statement made by Brandon... "a differential gives power to one side and the other FREE WHEELS in neutral!". That is just plain wrong! Maybe so in a '75 Pinto, but not in an Argo.
The differential transfers power at an even 50/50 split left and right sides. It takes considerable resistance on one side (ie. brakes) to affect that 50/50 split and reduce torque on one side or the other. So to say Argos are free-wheeling on one side, any time the levers are both forward, is not correct and ought not be a consideration when making a purchasing decision.
I worked at ODG and assembled some of these trannies. I know MY facts are correct. If anyone has a technical document (not here-say) proving me otherwise, I'd really like to see it. |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon Price)
Intermediate Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 58
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.56
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 02:48 pm: |
|
Sean my quote above is correct, that is the operation of an open differential. Sure when traction is equal the differential will transfer power 50/50. This is how the vehicle drives a strait line or swims in a lake with both sides turning. You are trying to ignore the fact that harsh off-road terrain rarely provides even traction. When an open differential has greater resistance on one side, that side free wheels in neutral and the other side gets the power.
I just had a guy bring over an Argo Vangaurd for carb repair. It was only a few years old with low hours. It had been sitting a while and had a gummed up carburetor. I did all the repairs and test drove it through the woods on my Max trails. It performed great and the steering was easy on these woods trails. The owner came over later to pick up the vehicle and I drove him through those same trails. I COULD NOT BELIEVE the difference in performance (or lack of!!!) My passenger weighed less than 200 pounds, yet the Argo worked hard and bogged on turns in high gear. Simple trail riding was more of a chore with just one more person. Seriously under powered with that 16hp Briggs. Put the Argo in low gear and you have plenty of power... but the speed is far too slow and the trans screams louder than the engine! I have that exact same engine in my Max II. My Max idles around effortlessly with two people plus cargo!
I drove him out in the lake. Again the Argo worked great swimming around. We drove back to the bank to leave the lake. It was a very simple exit with only a small ledge. I took it strait but the Argo jumped to the side and was unable to climb out. The right side stopped turning as it wedged on to the bank and the other was in the mud. I quickly used the brake steering to transfer power. The Runamuk tires and lame differential drive had a heck of a time with that little bank and it really suprised both of us. We finally made it out after going sideways and spinning all over the lake bank for about ten feet. I rode my Max down there right after this happened and of course, it drove out of the lake with no effort or wheel spin. I have tried to like the Argo, even considered selling them. I just can't do it knowing the difference in performance. Max is far superior. |
Philip Croff
Member
Username: F14crazy
Post Number: 49
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 24.56.201.68
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 07:07 pm: |
|
My Amphicat is full 6 wheel drive when I shove both sticks forward |
Larry Houghton (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 69.90.48.65
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 08:00 pm: |
|
SEAN: That how traction assist works on cars.The brake is applied to to the slipping tire. On a set of plantaries the output shaft and input turn as one until the outer ring gear is held. This causes the planetaries to rotate inside the ring gear and outer shaft stops turning or slows down depending on force applied. On differential styles of diffs. ie. car diffs. power is 50/50 until one tire starts to slip then that tire gets more torque and tire spins out and other tire sits still.This might help you guys a little as the Max is as close to 6 wheel drive as you will get without going to hydrostats. Bubba will love that comment. |
Sean McConnell
Member
Username: Bookm
Post Number: 23
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 69.159.216.86
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 08:04 pm: |
|
Actually, ODG made the transmissions for Amphicats in the mid-60's. This venture is what launched ODG's entrance into the 6x6 market with the introduction of there own 6x6 (the Argo) in '67.
To sum up my thoughts on the Argo/Max debate (no really, I'm done this time! LOL), so long as BOTH companies prosper, I'm happy. Stiff competion makes for better machines.
Perhaps the Max Factory (not Max Factor!) could take a que from Brandon's example and create the same basic scenario at shows and events. Demonstrate how Argos have trouble in circumstances that Max's do not. Perhaps even post a video demonstration on their website. To take down the "big-dog", you have can't just talk, you have to let people see for themselves. I could easily be convinced if I saw an actual technical demonstration.
For the original poster of this thread, you may find the "Application" page of interest at Argos's site:
http://www.argoatv.com/applications/applications.asp. There are plenty of pics and vids attached to each application sub-page. Max's website is here: http://www.maxatvs.com
I'm sure either new Argo of Max machine will do more than you would have ever expected ;) Good luck, and happy 6'n! (... or 8'n). |
Rogersmith
Intermediate Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 61
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 4.244.96.133
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 09:31 pm: |
|
Brandon and Fred, I'll agree the argo tranny is power robbing in turns, requires stick to slow a spinning side, and pre Avenger models have noisy straight cut gears. The avenger trans is still a differential, with helical gears. The low steering effort is from the 4 center axles being lower. It needs a low range for turning with heavy loads.
After driving Jon's maxII and having a blast with a quiet T20, I'd like to have a clean used one as a second playtoy. It also made me appreciate the good features of the argo trans that I took for granted. Low range lets you crawl up or down steep slopes with complete control. And argo has brakes out the behind ANY time, none of the t20 nuetral=driveline disconnect=nothing but a cheesy poor designed footbrake, making a gearchange on a hill an interesting experience. And if a max had a low range you'd use it. I see max's slipping belts all the time in tough spots.
I know a max is a better swimmer in a mud hole, but what's this crap about it being a better climber. Neither of you guys in a II or a IV could have followed Greg Orr's avenger or my response up the slopes we clawed our way up at Haspin this weekend. If you feel different, bring it on any time for a comparison. Or ask any of the 20 argo/max people who came.
And Fred, don't make the mistake of test driving an Avenger. It's ride is luxurious. Any bad back guy will love it's ride. I do have replacement dense foam that'll fit the max seat bottom and back, as well as argo's. John Schwab has it and says his back is much better after a long weekend. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Intermediate Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 99
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 11:31 pm: |
|
Roger, I'm sure you are right about the ride on the Avenger. Those 25" rawhide IIIs are the very best skid steer tire ever, in my opinion (assuming the tires stay mounted). Are the Avenger tires staying mounted all right? The replacement foam sounds interesting, but the air pillows (I think) are a better option. You actually are "riding on air".
Interesting post you just made above. Don't hold your breath, but I will make it to one of your events one of these years. |
Tory Gardner (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 64.9.67.27
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 12:39 am: |
|
Hey Roger
I'll back you 100% when it comes to the superior steep hill climbing or backing down ability of the Argo 8x8 in the hands of extreme off road veterans like Greg, Jon, and your self vs any Argo or Max 6x6. I believe their main mechanical advantages are having most of the weight over the front axles and their longer wheel base. The Max 2 is much more agile in many other area's and has a better power to weight ratio but it just couldnt compete against the 8x8's ability to climb what seemed almost straight up in the mix of loose sandy/ wet slick tired top soil/ and fresh layer of autumn leaves. Haspin seems to be the altimate proving grounds for the 6x6 and 8x8 machines due to having soupy concrete like mud and wet quick sand like sand traps depending on the area your in to go along with steep slick hill climbes. I know this for a fact since I could have counted the times I've had My Max 2 stuck with one hand over the last three years but that was before I arived at Haspin. You can multiply the dificulty of traversing this terain by 10 after it rains. Its an awsome place to off roading if you enjoy pushing your machine to its limits and somtimes past like I do. To any one who reads this if you go to Haspin install a roll cage because youll need it. I did! |
fred sain Arkansas ARGO Dealer (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 67.54.200.199
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 09:30 am: |
|
You guy's at it again!! Argo vs Max
Hey Brandon! What happened? Last time you e-mailed me you wanted to sell Argo's
Fred you still should get every award that Max offer's for loyalty.
Fred is right the Argo weigh's more than the Max, so where does the weight come from? Could it be that the Argo is made heavy duty? Just a thought! |
david berger
Advanced Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 199
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.129.36.83
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 11:37 am: |
|
phillip c, some if not all amphicats have many degreese of power to chouse from,
so before your sticks are fully forward you should be traveling forward, if you were zipping down a trail or up a hill and wanted to stear a little left or right, you could, by chainging how hard or how far each stick was forward without ever haveing to go into nutral,
you stear more sharply with the nutral and even sharper still with vairying amount of brakes as well, the vairing amt of brakeing power has an advantage goin down hills too!
this is one of a few makes and models with supirior controle over currently produced vehicles and qualifys better as true 6x6 drive than them.
it's a shame huh, they had it 30 years ago and you cant buy it from the 2 leading manufacturers still arround today. |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon Price)
Intermediate Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 59
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.79
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 12:24 pm: |
|
Fred Sain, I have considered selling Argos as I stated in my last post. You gave me lots of good info and I was really going to order three or four Argos. I think that proves I really do like the vehicle, but I am seriously disappointed with their performance in "Max terrain". I am also not 100% confident in the overall layout of Argo's distributor and dealer setups.
Argo 8x8s and hill climbing. The legth of the vehicle does allow it to climb very steep grades. I have seen this but only on very dry, solid ground. It can creep up a very steep hill as long as it can hold traction. The weight and slow tire spin won't allow it to go up extremely steep hills with loose traction. I do believe the Max IV is best for those type of hills. Longer wheel base than a Max II and the 26" tires grip slick hills better than the Rawhides. I've seen a IV go up a muddy hill that my II with 22" tires would just spin out.
Fred Sowerwine don't worry about that Avenger. It's an improvement with the bigger tires and an engine with 'enough' power. It's just another Argo when the going gets tough.
David, I think the only reason you make those statements is because you haven't driven a new Max. The T-20 operates completely different than it did just a few years ago. It is so smooth and featherable you wouldn't even know it was the same basic unit as they had before. Trans chatter has been eliminated and there is no quick grabs like before. I can barely even drive an older Max these days. That jerky steering reminds me to much of an Argo! Adding limited slip additive helps those trans slightly. With a new vehicle, it is easily possible to turn one side of the T-20 slower than the other (for true six wheel drive turns). I do it often and I do realize this was impossible with older units. |
david berger
Senior Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 202
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.129.36.83
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 02:32 pm: |
|
yes brandon i have this past summer, my old units realy beat to death and folks keep telling me to go with a 4 stroke, but the few times it has moved at all it still flew by the 4 strokes,now this is with my engine saying no-wayyy -ohh-go-awayy ~ jus - lett-me-dieeee, you can here it clearly in my last released video.
but at olean this summer i did take a spin in a maxII tricked out with one of thoughes hopped up vangards with rev kit and more done to it.
it did not stop exelerating at 20 mph like factory units, nope this bayby had speed, and it did throtle steer witch is what im most interested in, i should have taken it on a longer test drive but it did need some inprovements, like the chain adjusters were blown apart already, this i dont falt it for, enoph power for me i already knew was way more than some drive components could take. but till i winn a lotery i will have to try to fix my poor old machine, i have a rusty but strait old fraim to put in when i get the last axel loose, i have fixed exaust manifold and have new engine mount and 2 stroke exaust for first time,it just might run when i finaly get it put together. |
Sean McConnell
Member
Username: Bookm
Post Number: 28
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 65.93.24.99
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 11:21 pm: |
|
Oh this is gonna' hurt LOL... (tail between legs)
I just finished disassembly of my '76 Argo... trans is out... and the dang thing is a freewheelin' planetary system. So while I'm removing my foot from my mouth, please accept my appologies to those I debated (Brandon, Fred).
HOWEVER!!! Managing the power balance between right and left using the brakes, apparently performs the same function as the clutches in my GTO Posi rearend. Since the power has to go out one side or the other, mechanically balancing that power seems to at least mimic a "true full-time 6x6".
I'll have to try out a Max sometime, but I've never even seen one around here (pretty much Argo territory... just 10 minutes from Argo plant). We could never use a Max for work though, because we need to load it up with steel survey bars, and the lower we keep the load, the more stable the machine on steep grades. |
Rogersmith
Intermediate Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 66
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 4.244.102.186
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 03:18 am: |
|
I'll agree with Brandon's paragraph about climbing. We were on virgin slopes with vegetation/timber, as well as hardpack trails, but if it's slick I wouldn't bet against a max. Last Fall, Jon drove his II up a gooey little hill the 8 wheelers would spin on. And the IV's tires and the Titans Troy had on his IV were the best mud tires I've seen that still swam well.
Sean, you can feather the sticks on an argo, but when the spot is so tough that losing any momentum is enough to stop your run.. that's it's weakness. I found the argo diff on really slick/frozen surface makes for a very quick effortless steer, though. Can have an unusual blast skating/sliding through the woods in 8 wheeler. |
Larry Hoghton (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 69.90.48.77
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 07:50 pm: |
|
Sean: If your ever up in the Lindsay area let me know.I have a Max IV. I've got a hundred acres to play on, should find some place interesting. |
rich dauman
New member
Username: Ritchie
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 12:02 am: |
|
HI, ive owed several max's 2maxIV.I own 300 acres of swamp,woods,rocks,sand.I cant believe i've wasted so much time wrenching on the max's.Junk in my eyes now that i bought a argo conquest.Much more superior than the max's in all aspects i have found.If you want to play in your front yard ,get a max .if you want to go places,anywhere, and want the reliablity,and the fact you will get back with out breakage,get a argo! any one ,old or new is much tougher then the latest max out there.Dont waste your time with a max if your a serious off roader! Thus ends the reading. They should becme partners with dodge! In the dictionary dodge means to avoid.Same goes for the min i mean max |
tom bo smith
New member
Username: Snowman
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 08:59 pm: |
|
hey has anyone weigh the front wheels on a argo frontier 650 6x6,to a max 2 or max 4.which one is lighter.Does the engine in the front or back mean that much????????? |
Jeff bar
Advanced Member
Username: Argo8x8
Post Number: 182
Registered: 03-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 08:22 am: |
|
Tom I have a ARGO 8x8 Response, i really like it and I am keeping it, but the MAXII with it light front end weight is a better performing machine.
Sorry ARGO guys, the Max is a better performer but I feel the Argo is better built.
Jeff Bar |
Timothy Schotanus
Member
Username: Mudbuster
Post Number: 23
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 07:11 am: |
|
I agree with Jeff. The argo is a well built machine but I will challenge anyone with my max. I love the mud and win the water race every year at Oleans. Wish they would open up again. |
My Favorite Machine: Talk about you favorite ATV and Why.