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charlieharrington
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: | 
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Is there anyone out there that has experience with the polaris ranger 6x6 ? The few owners I have talked with about them rave at how well they go through swamps,mud etc,but when you spend 10,000+ for the rig sometimes it alters your judgement.Oh,I was driving down the road north of wasilla, ak. and off on the side of the road i could see an argo 8x8 stuck in a wet swamp he was trying to cross, his only lifeline was a set of railroad tracks dissecting the swamp which he appeared to be using as a winch anchor!!! is it just the runamuck tires and do 26 inch tires really make these 6x6 and 8x8 walk the walk? |
MaxRules (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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People also rave about how great their 2x4 Honda goes through mud. The thing is, they don't have anything to compare it to. The Ranger is not as good as the other Polaris 4x4s in mud. It is much heavier, underpowered, and over priced!
You saw an Argo 8x8 stuck. Big deal. 8-wheelers are not that good in mud compared to 6x6s but they all get stuck. 26" tires help but it is the man behind the sticks that makes the real difference. |
mikelevero
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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I need help!!!
WHAT YEAR DI ARGO STOP PUTTING 440CC TWO STROKES IN THEIR NACHINES.
please e-mail me at mikelevero@home.com |
Speed
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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To help get a picture of the difference between 'true' six-wheel drive and differentiated six-wheel drive, find a local 4x4 club and join them for a ride. When they get to a 'big' mud-hole (by their standards) watch for three different actions. Those with open diffs will quickly come to a stop and spin two tires while the other two just sit there (Argo driven improperly). Those with limited slip diffs will drag their brakes to transfer some of the torque to the wheels just sitting there (Argo driven properly). Then there will be those that have 'true' locked diffs in both axles, and 'true' four-wheel drive, that will spin all four tires at the same speed as they get the farthest through (Max driven properly).
I had a '94 Wrangler with Lock-Right diffs front and rear. I went through a mud puddle that I hardly noticed at the time back to a killer deep-water puddle. I was afraid I was going to drown-out my Jeep so I stopped. Unfortunately, I couldn't back-up because I was facing downhill and just spun all 4 tires. A long trip to the main road (walking) allowed me to attract the attention of a group of 4x4's. The open diff vehicles had to be pulled out of the first hole. The limited slip guy's got about 1/2 way through the first hole, and backed out on their own. We finally found another fully locked vehicle with the CB that could get back to me. I could have sold lockers for $1,000 a piece as they (6 different trucks) watched as we both easily drove back through that first puddle.
That is the difference between Argo and Max and why I am now looking to get a Max (tired of stopping for fear of drowning out). |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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well speed thats a nice story and all but you forgot that a max(anything with a t-20 ) still hasent true 6 wheele drive , it canot stear while under power to all the tires, that would be true 6 wheel drive huh, now them 4x4's have frount tires that adjust ther coarse and can stay under power with all 4, try again though,
ooh amphicats had it, attex /baker hills did too, probly many more also,
but not 1 argo or max has it or prehap's ever will,
(unless you count the centor) |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Speed,
I guess i dont understand your point in your story. Do you own an argo? Have you driven one before? you use very poor reference with the trucks. And last I knew an argo was amphibious so how can you drown it out?
I ride with a lot of max guys and we always have a great time, but they cannot go any more places than i can. as a matter of fact the max iv is the only max ( with the 26 in tires) that can go some of the places my bigfoot can.
what you are failing to relize is any one can drive any of these machines and make them look good or look bad. driving skill is 99% of the game with these machines and from what your saying you obviously haven;t driven max or argo very much. |
MaxRules (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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While mudding any vehicle, you would normally pick a strait line through when the mud is very bad. I never attempt to turn any vehicle when in deep mud. However, you can turn the Max slightly and keep the true six wheel drive. This is a skill very few 6x6 riders have. The idea is to slip one side slightly so that it turns slower than the other.
Speed is exactly right. True all-wheel drive vehicles go farther than those with a differential. I also see this a lot when riding 4x4 quads. Anything except a Polaris has a differential so it is only three wheel drive. The Polaris uses a unique type of true four wheel drive system and is always superior when the going gets tough. That's why I bought one.
MaxRules |
Al
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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I have to agree with you Brandon, I have 2 polarises, and they easily go through mud holes most quads get stuck in because the front wheel with traction stops turning. I bought an Argo because I got a good deal, but I have already seen the same problem with it. Granted I probably have allot to learn about driving it, but I had a very hard time getting out of a pond because as soon as I got traction with one side, it stopped pulling. ARRGGH O!!! I hope I can become skillful enough at driving it to compensate. |
Al
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Speed,
How do you "drag your brakes to transfer some of the torque to the wheels just sitting there" in a 4x4 truck?
Al |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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BRANDON,
in most part you are right, but when it comes to six wheeling I disagree. driving skill is everything and I could take an argo any where i could take a max. driving skill goes a long way with trucks also. I have had a few of those. |
mr. tinker
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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some people don't know that a regular rear wheel drive vehicle with a differential type rear end only drives the wheel with the least traction.the reason for this is because when turning the inside wheel travels less distance than the outside.try turning a four wheel atv slowly with a non-differential [straight] rear axle. the front end always pushes a little when turning.next time your rear wheel drive vehicle with a differential gets stuck try applying the parking brake slightly. this will fool the rear end into thinking it has equal traction and will sometimes allow you to get through some mud or snow.it will allow both wheels some drive.now think about a vehicle using a differential type main drive. it will prob steer more smoothly i am guessing.but could give you less traction in CERTAIN conditions depending on operater and conditions. |
V. Greg Hintze (Floodrunner)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Speed, Huh? Like others here I don’t get it. It’s usually kind of fun to read other’s opinions on the 3-6-all-wheel drive issue but why revive this thread with that gibberish?
And Brandon, you’re a Polari owner now?? In spite of our past differences the fact that you’re an intelligent guy has never been an issue, only how you’ve chosen to use it. You’ll surely make an impression with insults and arrogance but you’ll not win friends or arguments that way.
Here’s where the rubber meets the turf. The vast majority of 4x4 ATVs don’t have rear differentials. Even though the rear “pumpkin” on a shaft-drive machine is often called that, even by it’s owners, it is not capable of “slipping” one side in favor of another. It simply transfers the directional turn of the drive shaft to the axle shaft, equally to each side without prejudice. It has no discretionary powers whatsoever. It is a transfer case.
Front wheel drive on 4x4s is accomplished through variety of means, and we seem to be getting more and more flavors to choose from each year. Without writing pages of description I’ll simply say that unless a machine has a true locking or locked front diff (some do) Brandon is right. Whether you love it or hate it, Polaris has the only other true all wheel drive system. I understand Visco-lock comes pretty close but I’ve no personal experience to confirm that.
And Brandon is right on the money with his assessment of the T-20 vs. Argo’s diff. Max is 6-whl drive until you turn (yes, you can turn slightly without full disengagement of one side of the drive train) and it’s pretty tough to say the Argo has 6-whl drive with it’s differential tranny. Although at the hands of a skilled operator the machines are probably equally capable, given their differences in tires, ground clearance, weight, etc.
Although they don’t float (right-side up), Polaris does have two 6-wheel, true all-wheel drive machines. The Sportsman 6x6 (like a quad with 2 extra wheels and a cargo/dump box) and the Ranger. They share the same 500cc power plant but the Ranger’s “golf cart” configuration limits it to very specific usage. I really can’t imagine it as a trail machine and will again, have to agree with Brandon. Unless it just happens to be the right tool for your job it is big, heavy and expensive.
Oh, and a Very Merry X-Mas to All! |
Mike Longest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Everyone:
Does this mean that Brandon (007; Yes I remember your
past) has now left our group, I sure hope so.
Mike Longest |
MaxRules (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Hey Greg, glad you finally learned how to turn your Max with true six wheel drive. It will really help get you through some of that mud. About two weeks ago I bought a '99 Scrambler 500 4x4. It is fun to have both a 6x6 and a 4x4. The type of riding is so different with each machine. I love the ride and feel of the Polaris. In my high opinion, it's the best thing on four wheels. I guess that's one thing we can agree on.
I was really hoping to see a new tranny in the Argo for 2002. If it just had the one simple feature of true six wheel drive, I would buy one. The Argo's differential has a slight edge on 4x4s with a differential because you can control the Argo with the sticks. Apply the brake to the side that is spinning. That will kick the power to the other side and it is possible to keep all six spinning for a short time. In theory, an expert driver could keep all six spinning all the way through a mud hole.
Sorry Mike, I'm here to stay. I think you are all alone over there. You will be hearing a lot more from me in the future. I'm just getting started.
MaxRules |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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just geting started and still wrong, heh heh heh,
in a lab you can slip one side but not while you bouncing along, it just is not predictable or usfull in any way, just drive somthing thats realy "true 6 wheal drive" and you will give up that silly speach!
all that lab stuff like "under just the right conditions you can slip one side" sounds alot like "under the right conditions you can transfer power to the other side" (as in an argo's case)
seems to me your just proving my point that neather company has it to sell!
(unless you count the centor) |
Speed
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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argogeru,
The point of my story is that, like the Argo 6x6 misnomer, most 4-wheel drive trucks (jeeps, etc.) are only really two wheel drive in the worst conditions. Just like an Argo 6x6 is only 3-wheel drive in the worst conditions. An open differential will transfer the motion to the wheel that will take the LEAST amount of torque. The Argo uses such differential so that braking one side will allow the other side to spin.
The Max does this quite differently. Max clutches each side separately. If you don't disengage a clutch, both sides are being driven from the same shaft, which will transfer the motion to the wheel that will take the MOST amount of torque. In order to turn a Max, one must disengage the clutch on the side that is going to drag putting the vehicle in temporary 3-wheel drive. But, when NOT turning, Max has max torque to the wheels with max traction. As you travel off-road, max traction is constantly changing from side-to-side and wheel-to-wheel. As long as you are not disengaging a clutch, 'real' 6-wheel drive will automatically apply torque where you are getting best traction. A 6x6 with a diff requires constant and continual input from the driver applying the brakes to one side then the other in a search for this max traction. |
Speed
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Al,
A vehicle with a limited slip diff can be 'fooled' into 'thinking' it has traction by dragging the brakes (speaking metaphorically, of course). A limited slip diff needs something to push against in order to 'lock' the clutch packs together. This can be accomplished by a light application of the brakes to get the clutch packs to grip. This will put friction between the side with low traction and the side with max traction, allowing the transfer of the engine torque to the ground and moving the vehicle forward.
This same action can be done in an Argo without limited slip diff because an Argo has separate brakes for each side (whereas a 4x4 truck has a single brake to both sides). The Argo operator can apply a brake to the side that is spinning which will make it the side that will accept the most torque. The diff will then transfer the engine torque to the other side where, hopefully, there is some traction. |
Speed
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Argogeru,
I am afraid of drowning out my Jeep. I am thinking of switching from a Jeep to a Max. I have driven many vehicles including an Attex and the Max. I would love to try an Argo, but am unable to find one within driving distance (Central Florida). I am going by the literature from Argo, the posts on this site, and a video comparing the two from a 6-wheel site in Michigan (I think a Max dealer). If I am misinformed, I would appreciate a source that would rectify this for me. Thanks. |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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I would like to know about this six wheel sight in Michigan, I live here in michigan and anyone who did a video comparing the two I bet is bias.
let me know who made this video so I can get it and see. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Speed, there are videos from events where fun was the order of the day and not a sale's pich for any brand over another,
any of John shwabs or my videos from Humphrey,NY
or the "spring fling"videos from Pete Cagles for example.
from these it can be seen that there all compaireble and capable pluss they can play well together,
fear not and continue you serch for an argo to try out,
some places exist where you can only find amphicats, attexes or scramblers for that matter,
there were over a hundred diferent types of 6x6 machines sold and whats most prevelent in any one erea may not be in another at all,
also many AATV owners are sadly unaware of route6x6 and could be driving around your town on days your not,
i know theres 4 within 10 miles of me but i cant find them, i just keep running into people who have sean them,
good luck in your quest. |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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speed,
like I have told other people on this page and elsewhere, when you are spending this kind of money you had better test drive all the machines first before buying even if you half to drive a distance. I drove 4 hours to drive an argo and was very glad that i did. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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ooh speed max t-20's dont have clutches on each side, if they did they might work better, they use a self energizing band, thats why you cant fether them as you would like to or as you need too, it's all or nothing,
if ever you have the chance to drive somthing that has the ability to operate as a skid stear but that is fetherable you will understand then how poor the drivability is in the t-20,
there clumbsy and harsh and prehaps in certin conditions more dangeros (steep inclines)
the beter handling and smother controled types of AATV transmitions are not found in argo or max vehicles at this time (unles you count the centor) |
Speed
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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argogeru,
I have seached extensively to no avail. The factory refers me to a place in Maine. Maine! I can't get there in four hours in a jet plane!
The video is from: Superior Off-Road ATV's, Inc.
8365 Belding Rd. N.E.
Rockford, MI 49341
Phone: (616) 874-8207
website is: www.maxallterrainvehicles.com
Go to video clips, comparison by using the buttons. It is called argovs.avi. It first shows an Argo with the left side off the ground and spining with the rights on the ground and NOT moving the vehicle. It then shows a Bobcat with one side off the ground but the other side moving the vehicle. Finally, it shows a Max IV with one side up and moving the vehicle with the other side.
I was thinking this whole thing over while off-roading this morning and realized one important difference between the Argo system and the 4x4 trucks. The trucks have two diffs while, I assume, the Argo with only one. The biggest problem with the 4x4's, that I have experienced, is when left front and right rear drop into holes and spinning wildly leaving the two tires firmly in the dirt with no torque applied. This, I belive, would be impossible with the Argo. In fact, the Argo would be putting power to all six tires in almost all conditions, except where one whole side loses all traction. I wonder how often that happens? |
Al
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Speed,
Thanks for the tip on 4 wheel drive truck diff's. I hadn't thought of that. I have experience with 4 wheel drive quads, and laugh at most of them when the rear wheels are spinning, and one front tire spins with no traction while the other sits there. I will have to suggest the brake dragging trick next time. Now I got a good deal on a used Argo, my first AATV. It is a well built machine, but in some cases, I fear it will suffer a similar fate. At least on it I can drag the brakes on only the spinning side.
By the Way,
That place in Maine is probably a distributor, and they may very well have a dealer in Florida, this is the way Argo handles distribution, they give you the name of their distributor, who in turn refers you to a local dealer.
Al |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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speed,
I know of the place you are talking and like I said it is bias. when do you ride a 6 wheeler on three wheels? I do once in a great while but the last thing i am worried about is good traction when on three wheels. Their is alot of talk of argo and 3 wheel drive but It has never been an issue for me and my bigfoot. I bought the argo #1 because i thought it looked like a quality machine all around and #2 the transmission. In my opinion an argo tranny is much safer than a t-20 going down and up hills and a few other areas. hydralic disc breaks are great for slow decents down long ragged hills.
I would try the argo home page www.argoatv.com and see if you can find a closer dealer than maine. I know their are dealers in south carolina and mississippi. thats alittle closer than maine. good luck. |
RickMoMOBigfoot
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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speed,I used to live in s.w.florida.My first dealer demo ride was this company in Riviera Beach . It's in west palm beach county.That's just north of Ft.Lauderdale area.This company has and use's all kinds of Argos.They spray plants and wild vines that are going out of controll in the glades and swamps for the florida conservation.phone #'s are 561-845-5525 and 1-800-327-8745.I don't know the name of anyone there,I think i talk to Jeff.? but not sure.But call during office hours they where very nice.They made appoinment for me on a Saterday to test drive.they was normally closed Sat. and Sun.Plus they contacted me when they got thier first Bigfoot model.They was wanting to bring it over to my side of the state to test in places that i rode at.I got a Bigfoot this past June.love it .Company's name is G.W.P.INC. good luck RickMoMoBigfoot |
MaxRules (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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The video shows how the Argo differential functions compared to the Max. You would not normally be on three wheels while riding, but that is not the point. The differential will cause three wheel drive when the traction or resistance is different on either side. The driver has to juggle the sticks to keep both sides turning, although usually not all six at once. It is possible but rare to have all six wheels turning in loose terrain.
MaxRules |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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brandon,
Have you owned an argo? you act like your very educated on them, but your not. We dont half to juggle our sticks to get all wheels to turn. I suggest you buy the humphry video from 2000 and 2001. Myself and 4 other friends with bigfoots are shown in ramonas big hole and if you watch all six of our tires climbing threw the thick clay and old tire ruts are spinning. unless you own one (argo) you should keep your supposed expert opinion to yourself because you dont know what your talking about. next time at the badlands lets hook up out machines and see who can pull who, just for fun. if you owned a bigfoot like we know you want to your opinion would take a 180. |
Ken Thompson
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Brandon,
I have an Argo with tracks. I went up a steep ditch and when I got to the top both tracks were digging ruts into the side of the ditch. In a previous post you said that you could grab one side of the tires and they would stop spinning. That is BS and I can prove it. You grab one of my tracks and you will have no arms.
Ken |
roadwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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ken, i think brandon was referring to that test done in the water to show how the open differential will transfer the power to the side with the least amount of resistance. |
bigkodiak
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Ken
As an Argo Bigfoot owner...I lubricate my chains with the machine running. Jack up one side of the Argo (left or right) and give it some throttle the elevated tires spin with no traction to the tires on the ground.
Russ |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Yes sir, Bigkodiak, when given lemons, make lemonade. |
Frank Novatsky
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Speed,
It looks like Iron Horse Motorsports in Tampa, Florida ( phone 813-854-5611 )will be offering the Argo line of 6x6 and 8x8's. We are currently a Max dealership and will continue to sell these machines also.
The Max II is more of a sport type machine, being light, nimble and somewhat quick/ fast. The Argo Bigfoot is more of a utility or hunting machine, a bit slower but also built some what heavier. Both machines basically use the same engine and are reliable and safe. Both can, and are, used for sport and utility.
As for the type of transmissions used, a skilled driver at the sticks can get either machine through areas that you or I would be hard pressed to walk through. Each gearbox has it's merits, it all comes down to what the operator is comfortable with. I would not let the gearbox issue be the deciding factor in a purchase. |
6-wheels
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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I wish all you Max and Argo owners would stop fighting with each other. The quads are the real enemy. You guys should realize that your type is a rare breed, and you should not be trying to do away with each other. You need all the 6x6 ATVs you can get. It doesn't matter that the Argo has a diff. trany, and the max doesn't, or that the Max is faster. I don't own either, but I have doen my homework, and came to the conclusion that quads aren't going anywhere, any time soon, unless somehting new cam come along, or the 6x6 industry can somehow reclaim its glory and start booming again. All it would take is for money to be poured into the stale 6x6 industry, and then the 6x6's can give the quads a one two punch that they deserve. What I mean by stale, is the fact that the quad industry is growing and growing, and the 6x6 industry is playing catch up in the market. They are always two steps behind. Don't fight. |
Ken Keyes
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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BEWARE IF BUYING TRACKS for deep snow.
I have sank thousands into my Max II in tracks windshields, tires, etc. DO NOT BE FOOLED. These things are TOYS and TOYS only. All of the statements that they can go anywhere especially with tracks are false. Beleive me I know. I depended on these statements and it almost cost me my life last winter in very deep powder snow. They do not have the traction, clearance or power to handle this stuff and will greatly disappoint you. If you want to run in deep powder. you Must buy a good snowcat made for such. These ATV's with tracks will really disappoint you I promise. They are fun in the summer though.n I hope by posting this I will save at least someone a whole lot of grief. |
Joe ( - 24.75.42.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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I have a 20hp Max II with tracks and top and windshield. I've ridden in 4ft of fresh snow with it....never got stuck. Yeah it does use up the hp and you have drive smart....but is makes it through the deep snow 10x better than my 2002 Polaris snowmobile does. I even use the Max for year round trail maintenance for our local snowmobile club. I can get either machine stuck in seconds if I drive like an idiot. Use your head....and most of all, be safe and never ride alone! |
Howard Hoover
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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I had a max 2 with tracks I never took it out in the snow with the tracks but I went through the deepest mudholes and never got stuck. I did have a flat tire one time so I had to pick up the track and put it in the back. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Ken, Tell us a little more. Where do you live? What year Max II? What model (engine)? Were they factory tracks? Did you have the whole system installed?
Tell us what happened. How much weight in the machine? How much driving experience?
Your post is just a bash, there is not enough information in it to be a justifiable complaint.
I have been using tracked Max Machines since 1995 and selling them since 1998. Prior to the new track, I did not feel comfortable in selling the old style tracks to be used in deep dry snow conditions. I use and have several customers who use both Max IIs and Max IVs with the new track and they go well. All of my posts are factual based on personal experience and I take offense to your insinuation that I have lied. If you read my posts, they advise staying off the throttle in deep stuff and I say it is easy to spin yourself stuck in deep dry powder.
Even the machine you recommend, will get stuck if you don't drive it right. It is all about PSI on the ground and the Max is as good as most any machine made. |
Fred sain
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Ken, I agree with Sowerwine. Don,t get on the site and bash without the facts. I am a Argo dealer, but I have run the Max with tracks. I thought it did what it was supposed to.
I do not like the constant bashing, of 6&8 wheelers know matter what brand. We, the 6&8 wheeler owners & riders are a very select group of people who are not afraid to go anywhere!!! I would hope that we could behave better than a banty rooster!! Use this site for what it was intended, to exchage information, that will help us all. |
Preston blake (Wannamaxblake)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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If i had an older model max iv with the weaker axel and the smaller axel barring would it be possible for me to up grade those to the solid axle and the bigger axel barring? If so what would the cost of all this be?
and if there are any other up grades could somone please tell me what they are and there $$
thanx |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Preston, Hollow axles can be replaced with solids. Can also drive a solid rod down inside a hollow one and weld five triangle gussets from the flange to the axle (between lugs) and make homemade solids. You are pretty much stuck with the smaller bearing as the holes are different. I won't say it can't be retrofitted, but with frame and body holes close but not exact, it will cause strength and leakage problems. Richard has solid axles, but I don't know the price. Factory axles are $129.45 plus freight. You can replace the regular chain on Max IVs with the o-ring chain for about five times longer chain life and less frequent chain adjustments for a little over twice the price. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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preston in adition to what fred has writen you have yet another axel option, you can ask local machine shops to fab up some for you, i got some made for $75.0 a pair!
he cut old hubs off my tube axels and then welded on solid shafts and driled and bored to finish them, also he did the 5 gusets thing and outfitted it with a deeper bushing pocket + a grease fiting that alowed me to refresh the grease in my bushing area from inside to prevent contaminated grease from ruining bushings.
i still wasent satesfyde with bushing lifespan because my 38hp engine cut drive train parts lifespan down a bit quicker, so i did the following upgrade to replace them:
you can put the inner bearings in older models, you only need to fill the c chanel on pasenger side with 1" squair tubeing and drill threw the squair tubeing and fraim on pasenger side to mount the bearing, it will be the inch ferther from the end of the axel but big deal it works just as good, still 10 or 20 times better than a crapy bronz bushing, and drivers side they mount flush with fraim with just driling the fraim to bolt it on, i recomend an axel with a good bushing as a means of aligning the new bearing with fraim to mark your drill points.
im thinking on sellnig "how too"video and or installation kit some time up the road,
recreatives sells there inner bearings for $37.00 each!
i got same size bearings for about half that!
of coarse i substituted a none locking coler for my inner bearings, who needs the hastle of a frozen locking coller on an inner bearing,
even thou when both are locking type they shair the thrust load i dident see it worth the posable problems with locking coller up the road some day.
maybe i would if i owned a sawsall. |
CSRichmond
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Fred, thanks for the Oct. 25 post re: axles.
I've just bought a MAX II, mid eighties, I think, s/n 7665, with hollow axles and Tech. 16HP generally in good shape except for the final drive components.
It clearly needs bushings and bearings before anything else so I'm trying to do some homework before "surgery".
Question, I can imagine how to do it - BUT - is there a prefferred method of going from bushings to inner bearings (or not possible)? |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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CSRichmond, According to my data, s# 7665 would be a 1985.
I'd say david berger's above post is the way to put in an inner bearing on a max II (all Max IVs have inner bearings, not bushings). Having the axle correctly aligned is most important for chain life and to keep leakage at a minimum. On a max II (with inner bushings), if putting a rod inside a hollow axle, remember to leave room at the end for the bushing. I also like david's idea of a grease zerk in the axle if you use the bushings. I might add that bushings last pretty well (bigger than normal engines and tracks would be reasons to put in an inner bearing. |
CSRichmond
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Fred, thanks for the quick post regarding the serial number and bearings.
The engine s/n indicates it's an '86 but it could have been added later.
I do envision myself using this in the winter (on my property in NH) which means snow which means "install tracks", I think.
The factory track kit (which I have not seen) comes with extra, outboard bearings.
I assume these are to take up the extra tension load caused by the tracks themselves as they fit tightly over the tires - correct?
Do they fasten to the body/frame or merely "lock" onto the axles and keep the axles separated, so to speak? |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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CSRichmond, Yes, the new track kit comes with tracks, extenders, bearing cages and an axle support rail. The bearing cages bolt over the existing bearing flange (axles have to be pulled to install bearing cages) and the axle support rail bolts to the outer side of the bearing cage (in essence moving the stress point from right at the body to about 8" out closer to the end of the axle. I don't think the current bearing cages will fit on the smaller bearings used on your machine. I would not advise the 15" rubber belt tracks on your vintage machine (you could use the old style track if you can find a set, but plan on bearing failures). Yes, the tracks fit tight over the wheels and the real stress comes when the machine makes a turn. |
Preston blake (Wannamaxblake)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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thanx david n fred , this site has really givin me alot of information about these machienes. After reading all the posts on the discussion board I'm sold on the Max IV 18hp or higher with the 26inch tires.
I'm only 17 so Im trying to find out as much information has I can to prove to my dad that these machines are the best and most versatal in any invierment so I can talk him into getting me one for christmas.
I hope I dont bugg anyone with questions but I guess that is what this site is for so I was wondering how the braking systeme works on the maxiv. is the braking in the transmission? or is it seperate? I was wondering this because if the braking was in the transmisstion wouldnt be a pain in the ass to put new brake pads in it? or being that there contained in a dirt and grime free atmophere like the transmission would it be seldom that they'd go bad?? just somthing that i was wondering because I'm not sure how the braking system works on these things. and to apply the brakes is with the two main handels or a differant one.
thanx |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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preston the brakes in the trany will laast for years and years, no matter what you throw at them, if you buy a newer modle it migh have frount disc brakes on the frount axels too!
this is an improovment offered just since the begining of this melenium, or decade as you might rather look at it.
an older one than that might have weak go-cart brake, saposed to hold you in place during shifting of trany if your on an incline , (because shifting between forward and revers on a slope is dangerous and not advised)
this frount brake is not ment to slow or stop the machine, the trany brakes are good for this,
however the disc brakes mentioned above actualy can slow and stop machine under most conditions,
not too shabby as they go , it just took recreatives 25 years too long to upgrade too them.
only thing i can add per your questions :
if youd like to convince your dad even sooner you might pic up some videos from the rideing events
of the last few years,
alot of folks taped parts of the events, maybe someone would send you a copy of the tapes thay made,
or you can order tapes from john schwab or myself.
john and i each have a number of event videos to chouse from.
my e-mail info: davidrrrd@yahoo.com
~or~
heres johns e-mail (ihope) jsschwab@localnet.com |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Preston, To add to what david said, the tranny uses bands wrapped around drums running in ATF, not pads. When one has mastered the T-20, you forget about the foot brake (about the only time I use it is to rock the machine to get the tranny to go into gear). The best way to know what a skid steer can do is from a demonstration with an experienced operator. Next best would be david's or John's videos. |
Preston blake (Wannamaxblake)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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i got the max video from http://www.homestead.com/maxatvs/ its pretty good. it has a lot of differant invirments in it, but it showed a lot of snow footege and living in Rhichmond virginia theres not that much snow so I'd like to see what it will do in my climate and on hills and stuff,is that 45 degree angle the factory says they can go on more mello then the machine can really handle?? becuase my four wheelers wheelbase is a lot shorter then the max iv and I now I've been up much steeper then 45 degrees on it .
How much do the tapes from you guys cost?? and how long are they??
thanx
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david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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mine usualy run 2 hour's and johns as well,
some even longer, a genuin value at under $20 for ether johns or mine. so use the e-mail links for our indvigual title lists. |
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