Route 6x6 Discussion Board: Argo 8x8 Avenger

Route 6x6 Discussion Board My Favorite Machine: Talk about you favorite ATV and Why. Argo 8x8 Avenger

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JBC

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I just got the February/March 2004 issue of Outdoor Life and noticed an ad for:

New Argo: 8x8 Avenger.

A new Argo born of a pioneering spirit.

Launch: Ottawa Boat, Sportsman's, and Cottage Show, Lansdowne Park, Feb. 26-29.

I checked Argo's web site and no information. Anybody here anything else?

Jon Hoath

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

It should be avalable for sale in mid february. it is a pretty awsome machine. Jon

leorobinson666

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Heard from my friend that drives truck that the new Argo has some real nice styling changes - bigger tires, Koehler engine and looked real mean. He really liked it !!!

He also mentioned that there was something on the steering that looked different but he couldn't get close enough to be sure

Eddie Beddingfield

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Sounds like a new model that odg needed,unlike the overpriced Centaur.I hope the pricing will not be as outrageous as the Centaur. If it isnt Im ready to sell my Response ,fast!!!!!! Eddie

Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Eddie, Why in such a hurry to get rid of your Response - I thought that you think your machine is GREAT.

Jon Hoath

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Eddie,
Dont put a for sale sign on that response yet!

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I think that this new machine that ODG is putting out should be tested before you all sell your machines and get a new one. I can't wait to see what it looks like and what people think about it. Im sure, it will get critisized in every which way like every machine does, but it will likely be a more powerful machine, and have a different style than what we are used to. The Centaur is a different division of ODG so it can't really be considered in the same class as a MAX or ARGO. It fits into a category along with all the other 6x6, 8x8 industrial work horses. (I can't think of the name of them right now- the other machines like the Centaur) If anyone gets a picture or something, please e-mail it to me.

Eddie Beddingfield

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I would pick any Argo vehicle over a max anyday. Eddie

Eddie Beddingfield

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

John, If it is like my Bigfoot only in a 8x8 I will be looking at one.The 22's on my Response are ok for tracks , but I never run them.So if I could get a bigger tire on my 8x8 I would be happy. Eddie Sorry I couldnt make the Haspin ride I had to work that weekend.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

LET ME BE THE FIRST TO BRING THIS TO YOU ALL!!!

I FOUND A PIC OF THE NEW ARGO AVENGER ON THE NET JUST A MINUTE AGO. HERE IS THE LINK- NOT SURE HOW PEOPLE WILL TAKE THIS- NOT SURE HOW MUCH I LIKE ITS NEW LOOK, BUT I LITERALLY NOTICED THE PIC AND OPENED UP THIS BOARD AND DIDN'T TAKE A GOOD LOOK- http://www.ontariosnowmobiler.com/press.htm

REACTIONS?

Eddie Beddingfield

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Fred, The 8x8 will hold me , my wife, daughter and 2 dogs.No max vehicle will do that.So yes I will choose Argo hands down every time. Also they redesign for what the customer wants,8x8,6x6,hyd brakes,bigger tires. They just dont stick a bigger motor in and call it a new model.I dont have trans problems or trans adjustment,no frozen throttle cables,no bearing failures,no weak or broken frames,and I thought your machine was great.

Roger Smith

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Way to go,David. Looks like they added about 6" to the wheelbase to fit the tires. I'd put a set of 25 or 26" Titan Tru Power tires on it, like Troy's Max4.

But, then again, for $17,000 (I heard from a source I can't reveal) :) Think I'll put some 23" tires on the Response and call it good. Eddie, we have a couple tire options. Buy a set of Bigfoot 9" wheels, and trim a 1/4" tread off the crown of some 25/12/9 rawhide III's. Goodyear specs them at 24.1" and we have axles on 24" centers.

Or agricultural tires like Troy's. That would be 12" Max k-rims with Titan 23" tires. Only drawback is very short sidewall with 12" wheels=very little suspension.

Been looking at Kenda Dirt Dog atv tires, a chevron mud design. Found a 25/12/9, it specs at 23.1" tall, oddly. And 9" so should fit the bigfoot wheels. Have to get my hands on a wheel and tire to see.

The Avenger looks cool!

Howard Hoover

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

David, I read the article about the new Avenger
it has some body changes and a new transmission.
As I said on one of my posts I thought that the
transmission technology is one of the things that is holding the amphibious ATV's back I wonder how much better the new trans is? I'm glad to see they are trying to improve in the transmission department.

Jon Hoath

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Eddie,
We will be at haspins several more times this year. Next ride I go on their probably wont be untill may or june, just sold my house and am building a new one so, that is going to tie me up for a while.
Howard,
the transmission tech. is not the problem in the argo, it is the hp. I put a stock 23 hp briggs in my bigfoot and it feels like a chevy 350 in their compared to the 18. acceleration climbing is real nice. no power loss when turning either. argo trannys as eddie said are practically maintence free and will last longer than most anything else on the machine. I wouldn't change anything about the design, and you are not going to see much difference between the avenger tran. and the regular tran... More hp is the answer.

Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

That looks like a real nice machine. I was hoping to see a new 6x6 soon with more ground clearance and true six wheel drive. I will say the fact that ODG makes new models is the one thing I like about Argo. RI just shoehorns a bigger engine in a 30 year old design and calls it good (although the 2000 model year changes were nice). The Avenger looks completely new. The front end will take some getting used to but it is new and aggressive. The steering levers look like one piece and the article mentions handlebars. It looks like the two levers will be gone and a set of bars will just pivot on one point like a quad?
I'm very interested in the transmission. The existing set up is by far the worst feature on the Argo. I hope they have something revolutionary so I can add the Argo line right next to the Max line.
It looks like the new handle bar design will have a brake lever which is probably why they mention hydrolic disc brakes (this is only speculation). This should make it safer for downhill travel. I just hope they aren't made for controlling a differential transmission.

Eddie Beddingfield

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

If I can swing it I want one!!!!! This is the neatest looking 8x8 I have seen. This is just what I have been waiting for. Thanks ODG. Eddie

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

It looks like they have changed the steering levers this time. When you look at the picture, their looks to be some sort of bar that holds something together. Im not sure if I like the front end of it or not, its just a brand new look and im sure their is a reason they went with an angled front end. It looks like its shorter than a Conquest, but we just have to wait for ODG to get their info on the site - who the hell knows when that may happen though.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Eddie, don't you want to find out what specific things have changed as far as innerds of the thing? I think its more aggressive looking, but still not sure if I like that front end. I do like the lights though, as long as they aren't the sealed beam lights!

Big Wolf

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I like the looks of the new Avenger, however, I would have to agree with John Hoath on his analysis. The New Argo Avenger should have been introduced with much more horse power than just a 23 HP Kohler. If I were the lead design engineer on that project, the entry level engine would have started out with a 25 hp Kohler minimum, and then step up into the 27, 29 and 30 plus HP Kawasaki liquid cooled engines. And then later down the road introduce another dirivitive with a couple of deisel engine options.

This would have been the ideal apportunity for Argo to kill the 8x8 Conquest, and introduce the Newly redesigned "Avenging Conquest" or perhaps the Conquesting Avenger" and new king of the 8x8's.

I have to tell you guys, there is nothing like the feeling that you have more than enough power to get the job done. I know some guys knock R.I. for shoe horning bigger horse power into and old body designs, but I have to tell you, it is a real good feeling when I strap into that new Max IV-950T machine of mine and take off. It feels and handles like you are strapped into one of those jet boats with the huge car engine in the back. I am telling you the entire rear end of that machine is all engine! When I kick it in the rear end, that two barrel Makuni carb inhales a deep breath of air, and off you go like you were shot out of a cannon, and your at 35 MPH in no time flat.

I have always liked the Argo's, although I do still have bad feelings about the costing structure issue. But that's a whole different discussion topic, that is better left to discuss around the camp fire at one of the upcoming summer time ride events.

I think that both companies Argo and Max could use some new blood, perhaps a Ford Motor Company Truck Design engineer, that can show them both how to design a killer machine front to back, and get all aspects right from day one. They could both also use some new blood for marketing talent, perhaps that fellow that was Iraq's former interior minister, you know the master of spin and jive! Now that guy could sell you any thing for what ever cost and make you feel good about it also!

Eddie Beddingfield

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

David, I know this has been in the design stage and testing for over two years. Im sure ODG has done their homework, they wouldnt just slap some piece of crap together,and call it a new model.When dealers have them I will go look. Eddie

Damen T.Hill (Argoss)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

looks kinda like somebody let an argo and a maxx breed(also looks like someone smacked it in the face with a shovel), but other wise not to bad

leo robinson

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hey BIG WOLF, from what I know of the Kohler engines, what is on the press release is a 25hp engine even though ODG doesn't say so.

It looks like the Avenger should climb stuff better with that front end.

Big Wolf

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I went back and read the news realease again, this time I slowed down, and did not speed read it. After reading it again, it does say that the engine will be a Kohler liquid cooled and that particular engine will be covered by a 3 year factory direct warrantee.

One can only hope that they have considered offering some other bigger engine options at some point in time. A machine of this size and class can easily handle some excessive horse power. Even if that means installing a custom riser on the hood area to fit a larger engine in it.

I think it is a great looking machine. Nice styling job! Has a very tough and rugged look to it! That front end looks great, it has that bull dog look to it! The front and rear approach angles are much better as compared to the 8x8 Conquest unit. Hopfully it will have some 26 or 28 inch big tires on it for better ground clearance.

This is definately an excellent candidate to be transformed in Big Wolf's Custom Cave. After being transformed and unleashing its inner animal, I dont think any one would even consider parking a 4x4 quad or snow mobile next to it, for fear of being eaten alive by this beast!

P.J.

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I think you'll find 25" tires and the Kohler engine should be 25 horsepower. You are absolutely right about the front and rear approach angles. They wanted to make water entry/egress easier. Looks like a great machine. Can't wait to try it out.

Just like the Chevy/Ford (and now Chrysler again) competition in NASCAR, maybe this will stimulate other manufacturers to try to better the competition. Hey R.I., consider this a shot across your bow.

Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Anybody seen the specs on this machine yet? Wondering what it will weigh? PSI on the ground and machine balance is what allows one skid steer to out perform another. If it is less than a thousand pounds, they might have a winner.

Eddie Beddingfield

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Fred, PSI on the ground is ok for floatation,but for pulling and most conditions Psi dont mean crap.

Eddie Beddingfield

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Fred, PSI on the ground is ok for floatation,but for pulling and most conditions Psi dont mean crap.

JBC

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

New info on Argo's site.

1/26/2004
New ARGO 8x8 Avenger
We are pleased to introduce the world�s most advanced amphibious lightweight off-road vehicle. The new ARGO 8x8 Avenger is designed for those who demand the very best and combines comfort and ruggedness with unique and innovative features.

http://www.argoatv.com/

JBC

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Eddie, I respectfully disagree with you. Mud, snow, sand, shale, gravel and soft dirt are the most prevalent conditions we use these machines on. Crossing ice, crossing living vegetation (pastures, hay fields and wild meadows), crossing swampy areas and climbing inclines without spinning the wheels are areas low PSI on the ground are imperative. Sure, if you are running on roads PSI on the ground doesn't matter, but when I'm driving on a road, I use a pickup.

I can understand why you say PSI on the ground isn't important. When a machine can't compete with certain aspects of another, it is the pat answer that that spec doesn't matter. Max is in a class by itself when it comes to balance, PSI on the ground and power to the wheels.

Eddie Beddingfield

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Fred,I use my aatv's on my property, creeks trails,etc. I have been on many rides also.95% of the time PSI doesnt mean a thing.Hook a light weight vehicle to something ,then hook the same vehicle with more weight it will out pull the lighter machine. Why do farmers load weight on thier tractors? Most mud, snow, sand, shale situations 1or 2 hundred pounds wont make that much of a difference.

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

eddie,
fred's right psi does matter, if you read all of fred's posts you will agree to, just because he's a dealer doesn't mean he's saying stuff to get a quick sale and run, he knows what he's talking about and will be around for a long time.

the only time psi doesn't matter is on roads, and you can use a 2wd car there.

low psi allows you to float on mud, not sink to the bottom and get bogged.
have you ever seen a 6x6 go through where a 4x4 had just been bogged?????

have you driven some where and stopped in mud and got out only to sink up to your knees ???, that's psi on ground.

TRACTORS: the reson they load weights on a tractor is to stop the frount from flipping from extra weight on the back end, you shouldn't use a tractor untill you understand this or you might flip it, like so many dudes new to tractors.

tractors and 4x4's dont need low psi they sink in mud and use thair weight and speed (of spinning wheels not actual speed) to dig down to solid ground to get grip, and if there isn't anything solid they get bogged.

a solid 1 ton block of lead will sink in water.
but if you get that 1ton of lead and flaten it out and turn the sides up it will float, it's called a boat.
shane

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

eddie,
hook a 4x4 to a 6x6 in 6 foot deep mud,
then unhook the 4x4 when it starts to sink, that's psi.

the 6x6 floats on mud , that's psi.
shane

Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Uh, Guys? Regarding tractor weight, sometimes farmers add water to the rear wheels for more traction. If you have good ground, more weight means more traction and more pulling power. However, on soft ground more weight means a bigger tendancy to dig in or sink. It all depends on the ground conditions and what you are trying to do. BTW, same is true with the amphibs. Whether the Max 2, Max 4, Buffalo, Vanguard, Bigfoot, Response, Conquest, Hydrotraxx, etc is best depends in large part on what you want to do with it. I still say that no one machine is always the best choice under all conditions.

P.J.

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

While Fred argues that PSI is the most important factor in determining the relative worth of a machine, credibility is what determines the worth of a person's words. This new machine hasn't hit the market and, without even seeing one let alone try one or even read the specs, he bashes it.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

What are the odds that the bashing and constant rivalry will end in regards to who has a better machine...

I think we should all (including me) just stop the bashing and when we can actually get a hold of the new machine, test it out, maybe Richard will test it even and then we have a true opinion about its abilities and how it compares to other machines.

Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

PJ, You sure have something in your craw. How in the world did you get a "bash" out of my above posts - unless you know the new machine is heavy. It is possible to have a machine like the avenger weigh about a thousand pounds or less and with an improved drive system, bigger tires and new shape, it well could be a great machine. I suppose my comments about PSI on the ground and balance do irritate you folks who own heavy machines with engines in the front, but don't say it doesn't matter. You can say it doesn't matter to me or it doesn't matter to where I use my machine, but in certain conditions it matters a lot and the lightest, biggest tired machine is going to be the one that gets where he wants to go on his own power.

Are you ever going to do a profile in the owners section?

argoguru

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

HEY SHANE
BEFORE YOU COMMENT ON FLIPPING TRACTORS AND WEIGHTS AND SUCH, YOU SHOULD REALLY LEARN A LITTLE ABOUT THEM FIRST. Being the grandson of a fourth generation farmer and farming all my life, I will tell you weight on tractors is for traction, not to keep them from flipping over. cloride in the tires and front weights on a front wheel assist tractor are for traction. In my experience with 6x6 driving I could have used alot more psi on the trails and places I ride, slippery clay surfaces and such. Not to say psi wont sink you in some stuff, but more most of the time would help me out. I put 100 lb. bags (2) of sand in the back of my bigfoot to plow snow, and it helps considerably, we just recieved about 15 inches and I have been plowing for 2 days straight. Maybe the terrain is different in montana, but in michigan and indiana psi helps more than it hurts, from my experience. some people who haven't owned and rode many hours on both max and argo should really keep their opinions to themselves, you cannot judge a machine from a brochure, and so called expert opinons are coming from mouths that have not owned and rode both. abviously doug has or has the common sense to know each machine is different and each will be better/different than the other depending on the use.

argoguru

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

John Martin

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I just saw the prototype Agro Avenger at the local Boat Show. Unfortunately I did not have my digital camera with me, only had a 35mm disposable with me, or I would have posted some on the web. The tension only builds for those who have not seen it yet. I will tell you a little about the machine from looking at it: Its does have a better looking, heavier looking front end with more of a hood rise somewhat related to the front hood of a Max II. The rise is probably needed for the 25hp liquid cooled Kohler engine, I thought it looked very similar to the Kawaski engine used in the MAX IV. The motor has a nice looking small truck-like radiator that should work great for heater system. It is the best-looking Argo I have ever seen. The price is pretty step, $13,500 give or take a few big ones. It had the 25� Raw Hides with enough extra room for running some larger tires possible. Another interesting feature is that the front and rear axles are slightly higher than the middle two that is supposed to make it work well with the track kit that will fit on the 25" tires. I guess they were making it like a tank track, slightly higher on both ends. The steering system was the biggest change I noticed on the new Argo. It has motorcycle-style controls with a twist throttle on the right and a brake control lever on the left. The twisting of the handle bar copies the action that the two levers used to do to turn left/right. I am not totally for sure on the transmission, but it is supposed to shift allot smoother than the old style and still have the two ranges. I was under the impression that it is still step up like a limited slip design(dont't know for sure). Unfortunately, it was an 8X8 instead of a 6X6 but my source said they might possibly make the 6X6 the same way if the new design works out. They also had some off-rounded shaped front headlines that I could not tell if they helped or hurt the overall look of the new frontend. For a front engine AATV design, the Avenger puts the other Argos to shame on looks. Sorry about not getting the pictures. Ride on.

Eddie Beddingfield

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I still say take the lightest machine and the heaviest , If you are in the knee deep mud both machines will be on the belly and probably hung up.If one goes a little further it wont be by a few feet.

Big Wolf

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

What you have described sounds really good! The staggered height of the front and rear sets of wheels, being higher up as compared to the middle four wheels sounds very interesting also. It sounds like the new wheel set up will mimic a pair of hockey skates, which will allow it to pivot much smoother on the middle sets of wheels, giving it much improved agility and smooth quick response for turning, and also dramatically reduce the amount of drag of eight wheels and or tracks when turning. That makes very good sense!

It sounds like our Canadian friends and engineers have made some real nice improvements. You can also check out that new Kohler liquid cooled engine on Kholer's web site at www.kohler.com. It is very much like the Kawasaki liquid cooled.

All the other new stuff sounds good also, the handle bar steering, etc.

That new front end design, love it, it has that retro look to it, a modernized design of the old style truck front ends.

Now the only items left to finish it off is to design a more stylish yet robust looking body armor and roll cage, and an optional matching hard top or rag top, and a few other small added features here and there, and it would be the baddest looking 8x8 on the planet!

Add a little bit more jazz to the new name "The Conquesting Avenger", and snap some great promo photo's of it towing a big F-350 dually turbo diesel out of the mud hole, after a long hard day out in the remote bush or on the farm. And a few other shots of it with a couple of big Caribou Bulls or a Bull Moose strapped across the hard top, with the tracks on plowing through the deep snow and mud. And then a couple of shots of the unit performing beach patrol with bikini clad life guard ladies at the wheel, on the beach in Rio De Jeneiro, and toss in some new and exciting marketing phrases, it should sell a half a million copies.

Oh I almost forgot to mention to include some video of a couple of units being dropped out of a cargo plane, and parachuting to the ground ready for action some where.

With the added spiced up looks and marketing and phrases to grab your attention, it will drive you crazy until you finally just go out and buy one.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I have to say that I don't quite agree with the steering lever change. I always loved that feature about the ARGO and it was just so unique to ARGO (and MAX and those countless other amphibs out there) now its gone (sniff Sniff) Be interesting to see some pics of it at different angles and in sites on the net. SOmeone buy one and take gazillions of pics and send them to all of us!.

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

argoguru,
ok, i retract what i said about tractors,
i know nothing about tractors,

but i'm not retracting what i said about 4x4's,
psi on the ground.

pj,
there's nothing wrong with valid critisium, this is how good machienes will be built.

douglas,
same thing on the tractor speech mistake.
and yes not 1 machiene is for all purposes.
i wont drive to work in a 6x6 4x4 or tractor.
car for road,
4x4's are for dirt roads without deep mud,
6x6 anywhere off road with the least damage to soil.
i could go into a big speach about soil erosion but it can be looked up elsewhere.

david berger (Davidrrrd)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

yah and tractors have like 4 feet of ground clearence too!

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

dave,
that's it rip into em!
i hope you know somthing about tractors thou?

eddie,
on your post dated: 29 jan, you say the lightest will still sink,etc,
that just means they haven't built one light enought yet to take advantage of psi.

i'm shure the new argo will be good.

talking about problems with these machienes will help manufacturers improve them, if they take note.

if we all lived in a world where everything was 100% accepted without question we would be ruled over by 's party by now.

shane.

Roger Smith

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Is that why Recreatives used hollow axles and a bushing instead of bearing, to save weight? After all, PSI is everything? Just kidding. If Fred looked inside an argo floor pan he'd see what the weight difference is, some serious drivetrain strengh and thicker body. Seems obvious the argo is better built in construction; the max better designed in balance and steering effort. Argo seems to design for maximum usable space. Wonder why Ontario Drive & Gear doesn't have a more sophisicated tranny, they'd have to buy a patent on an existing design?

david berger (Davidrrrd)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

well they both have stuck to there trany's, after all the whole machines are designed arround them, but it wouldent hurt to work on introing something new and diferent in a transmition, as an option at first of coarse.
something for the future, im shure some people would willingly try out expirementel tranys for each company,

fred sain

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

ENOUGH!! Everyone has an opinion- The real topic was THE NEW AVENGER!!!!!!!!! ARGO has been testing this machine for more than two years, everyone that I have talked to who has had the chance to drive it say it is great. Steers very easy, lots of power. I am Arkansas Argo dealer. We should have them in stock by FEB. 20th Priced at $14999.00

John Martin

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

That's higher that what I heard. I'll stick to old school and just have to hear about how good it is. Sometimes I wish I was loaded but I never lose sleep over it. Goodluck

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I said it way above all these other posts, but I have to agree with Fred Sain about the constant bickering on this board. Stick to the topic, wait for the things to go on sale, test it, then make your judgements.

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

john martin,
eurica, that's exactly right,

it doesn't matter how good a new (or old )
machine is, if we can't afford it then it's compleatly usless. :-)

fred sain,
i guess it's all speculation untill we can actully drive one,
but in the end we are all just talking about how things could be improved. not nocking it for fun or something.

roger smith,
psi and strength are enemies of each other,
the more strong you make it, the more it weighs.

everyone,
well i thaught up a new tranny that doesn't ifringe on anyone's copyright so how hard can it be?.
p,s, it can counter rotate , and it's mechenical not hydrolic,
and on plans it appears to be fully fetherable (but need to test this before saying for sure).

the one drawback is it only has 1 gear ratio.
will give details when prototype is built in about a year.

in the post above i named a hard line political party of germany from the 1930's and it got cencored out,
so that's why the last line of that post doesn't make any sense, not my fault.
i think my mail program censored it.

shane

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

dave b,
yeah give you and me a new tranny for testing for free grate idea, i like it.
i'm sure if it survives it will be tought enought.
:-)
shane

Roger Smith

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Fred Sain, do you have a website. My old link to your site doesn't work. I'm in Tulsa..

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

john m,
and and big wolf,
the info you gave is grate,
lifting the frount and back wheels slightly will aid turning and reduce the power drain from friction.
well done ogd.

i thaught about this same thing lifting wheels about a year ago to make turning easier, on my 8x8 design.
but decided not to lift the frount and back wheels , but the middle 4 instead.

because if ther'e (frount/ back) not on the ground you could roll or flip easier on a steep hill or going fast and hit a dip in the track.

for this reason i thought "raise the centre 4 wheels instead" this would mean the outer ones were down and in contact for stabilaty,

and on rought (ruff) ground the centre wheels will come in contact for more grip allso on the top of bumps.

i don't know if my design would be good for tracks thou?

and when you go in deep mud the middle wheels will contact also for the extra grip needed and (dare i say it?) extra psi,
oh well raised middle wheels are one of my designs,
i had to say it before anyone else thought of it and claimed it as one of thair own.
you could never guess my other design features thou, so you'll have to wait. :-)

i wish i had a chance to read john m, and big wolf's posts ealier,
but was wasting my time talking about vehicles we won't see on 6x6 rides ( tractors , 4x4trucks and such).
shane

Laurier

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Does anyone have a photo of the new ARGO Avenger? I looked all over the web and have not found any.
Laurier

Big Wolf

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hey Shane,

Back in my younger days I bought a pair of roller blades to skate around with the wife and kids for exercise and so on. Any way, if you can still find a pair of roller blades that do allow the front and rear wheels to be adjusted up and down, you can try them and experiment with how they handle to get an even better idea of handling and agility. What the adjustable wheels do is allow you to set up the skates for different applications, for instance to play street hockey, they raise both the front and rear wheels for more agility and quicker movement response, and also reduce the amount of drag on the ground. Now if you were to just skate straight lines like ona a track, you can just raise the front wheels only, which reduces the drag and friction on the front, and also allows you handle little bumps and cracks in the road better. In the case of speed skating on a very good track you would lower all the wheels down, to take advantage of the high speed bearings to take advantage of the added smooth coasting between strides.

I realize that this discussion note is not completely relative to the Avenger discussion, however, some of the same theory does apply though.

When you talk about lifting the front and or rear wheels up off the ground, we are talking only small amount of clearance, but not enough to cause a major imbalance or rocking, just enough to clear and reduce the amount of drag for doing turns and so on. I am not sure about the amount of wheel lift needed for off road applications.

If ODG tested the new avenger for a period of a couple of years, and did look closely at some of the tracked vehicle available out there, then hopefully they found the ideal set up for off road use.

This is a very interesting modification that they have come up with, it will be interesting to find out just how well it will work out. I would definately have to go visit our local Argo guy up here, and test drive one of these machines at some point in time.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Laurier, Look up higher in the posts. I posted a website that had a small picture of the new ARGO Avenger that you are looking for.

bigkodiak

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

For all of you that can't make it to the Eastern Outdoor show in Harrisburg PA. I will be there on Sunday. I will take as many Pics and get as much info as I can and post Pics on my site. WWW.BigKodiak.com.
Russ

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

big wolf,
yeah i figured it would only be up an inch or 2 as i didn't notice the lift in the photo.

argo idea is slightly better for turning and alot better if you want tracks, and = to mine on rought ground.

please note i'm not knocking argo, actully i think it's an improvement on all previous s.

but i believe my idea is still better than a normal 8x8 with level wheel centres , for turning and reduced friction and more wheel contact in rough ground.

even though i know this argo is better than my design for turning , mine is better than normal argos.
i like the lookof the new srgo, looks like it will be better getting in out of water.

did anyone get wet with the pre- 2003 s when getting in out of water???

inline skates test,good idea too.
shane

bostatv

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

For those of you that have questions about the new Avenger, hold on to your hats. It will be interduced first in Raleigh, NC at the Southern Farm Show on Feb. 4,5,6. This is a great new machine with alot of the abilities of the Centaur and a lot less costly. I think you all will be very surprised at the price tag that is on the machine. It is quite abit lower than I expected. It will also be on display at the big sportmans classic in Harrisburg, Pa starting on Feb. 7, 2004. Looks like the wait is over. "Where ever we go we Argo"

masteratver

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

BOSTATV

If you want to show the new machine off, you
should send the information to Richard for
posting in the event section.

Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I have always liked ODG because they change models and make some improvements. ODG, in my opinion, is our only hope for an Earth shaking revolution in the amphibious ATV market. With that said, I believe they have bombed out for the second time in a row. The Avenger is a cool looking machine with good improvements. Let's face it though, it is a complete redesign and somehow they came up with the same big pile of crap. No suspension, no jet pump, poor tires for water travel (amphibious vehicle, remember?), and a spider web of chains. Reguardless of the brand name, I am not impressed.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Brandon, Im taken a chance writing this or getting my head bitten off by others on this board- not mentioning any names or anything! Im sure someone on here will argue it if I don't and not that I think it really matters but when you start adding stuff to the vehicle, you add weight, and we all know that that will just start an arguement. You add a jet pump, someone will say thats its not sufficient enough for the vehicle and it will be to hard to engineer for the ARGO unless you do a total re-design. Max can do the same thing, that is if they ever decided to update their machines other than just dumping in a new engine every other year or so.

Im my opinion, if you want the perfect vehicle, either get a job with either one of these manufactors and I don't mean just as a dealer (no offence intended to anyone here) and make the changes as someone who came from the outside and now has access to the inside. DO something about it, or build your own machine to your liking, with what you want on it, engine where you want it etc. etc.

Ya, it may sound like im just throwing garbage out, but thats the way I feel from reading these boards and the opinions of others. Quit complaining and stick to the constructive criticism.

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

brandon,
suspension adds weight.
these aatv's are the best there is untill someone comes up with something better.
shane

JBC

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

You got me thinking with that post.

Howard Hoover

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

The owner of Recreatives was writing a book on all the different kinds of AATV's and needed information for some does anyone remember how to get to the page with the list of all the aatv's
that he had posted? I don't remember his name or I would do a search on his name. I know it is not an Avenger topic but thanks anyway if you can help.

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

jbc,
i meant compared to quad bikes ,tractors , 4x4's
, buggies, and dirt bikes.
shane.

Laurier

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Does any one know if all other 8x8 ARGO will have the same wheelbase, like we find on the Bigfoot and the Vanguard. All so does this mean that we will see a change in the design of all the upper haves of the ARGO?

Roger Smith

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I think the conquest and response line will stay the same.. said a dealer.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Roger, that is good to hear in my opinion. Although I haven't seen it in action, I don't really like the idea of the steering change that the new AVENGER has. I have always liked the steering levers that ARGO has always had and to me, thats one of the most unique things about these machines. People see mine and ask how you turn and stuff cause they don't see the gas pedal, brake pedal or steering wheel, just two levers.

bostatv

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hi everyone,

I just picked up my first Avenger and have taken the time to drive it and get more familiar with the machine. I have read a few comments regarding the new steering system. You may wont to drive it before you make a finial decision. It is very responsive and can easily be driven with just one hand. The power and aceleration is outstanding and if you are a Argo owner or operator, you may find yourself over steering the machine because of its responsiveness. I have used the Argo products for over 20 years and other than the Centaur, This is the best I have had the pleasure to drive.

bigkodiak

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I am not crazy about the loss of the steering levers either but the stationary bars could have other advantages:
Levers won't break during a ride
Larger people can ride without hitting their belly.
Handicapped people may have better control

Just a couple of off the top of the head thoughts.

RickMMMMMoMoBigfoot

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Howard Hoover, look at the bottom of the page on Events & Messages.Rick

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

laurier,
the wheel base has to be a little longer to fit the larger tyres now,
don't worry it won't make much difference,
it may be better.
shane

Howard Hoover

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Thanks Rick,
Thats just what I wanted
Howard

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I found out some true info on the new AVENGER today. I talked to someone down at ODG this morning to ask some questions about my machine and some parts it needs and we got talking about it and it is definatly a 25 HP kohler, brand new tranny- totally different to be more like a car tranny- this is a fact!!! and the steering is now make like a snowmobile (handlebars with the brake on one and throttle on the other) Yes, the wheeles are elevated on the front and back to eliminate some of the bearing problems and to turn easier but still give 8x8 drive capabilities and have all 8 wheeles driving. They still have a couple things to work out, tracks are one of them. They are trying to make tracks work with the rawhides but havn't got it finished yet. They should be available with the AVENGER within 6 months or so. I am going to try to test one out at the end of FEB when I go up to the cottage again. I found a dealer up there thatI can deal with directly now and he has the equipment to do everything. He will have the Avenger in next week and then I can test it. Also, the Cottage Life Show in TOronto is at the beginning of March, and the ARGO is always there. I have to go to the show anyways as Dad has an exhibit in there, so I will take tons of pictures of everything, from every angle etc.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

One other thing. Just to clear things up a bit I also found out the list price for the NEW AVENGER. It is going for 18500-19000 Canadian for the vehicle with many options and new features. It is very reasonably priced for what they have done to it now. They are also putting more options out for the other ARGOs but they wouldn't tell me what kind of options until later.

Now a question for anyone running Rawhide 3 on their machines. If these are supposed to be amphibious vehicles, why the hell are they putting tires that don't propel in water well on. Everyone I have heard from says that they go backwards if the throttle is too high, and if its too low, it just sits there.

Laurier

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Bostatv Ilooked all over the ODG web site they only talk about speed in the water but not on land. Is it any faster? Also if you take alot photo's post them so we can have better look. Thanks

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

david k,
that sounds grate.
another question to ask the argo dealer is:

will the new avenger gear box be made avalible for the old argo's so people can upgrade?

i'm guessing it's not but it's worth a try and who knows some one might convert one by doing a bit of cuting and welding.

please get back when you get the answer.
shane

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Shane, From what he told me, it sounds like the new tranny is made specially for the design of the new AVENGER. I doubt that it will be seen in the current models of ARGO vehicles, but if it works out, it will be in the future models and im sure well see some upgrades to the current tranny in the old ARGOs but just not a totally different tranny. I am going to get back to the guy late today to get some more details and hopefully some more pictures as nobody seems to have any yet (ODG finally put 2 on their site but it doesn't show more than the front end) I am going to try to get down to New Hamburg next weekend to take a look but its a bit of a hike for me from Toronto. Actually, now that I think about it, its about the same distance to the plant as it is to the cottage so its not that bad. 2.5 hours tops. I think I will try to get in contact with Ron Bass down there and organize something. Hopefully, I will be able to get down there and find out everything on the new ARGO AVENGER and future vehicles.

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

david k,
thanks , i'm sure someone will come up with a way to make it fit in old 6x6's if it is as good as they say,
maybe someone with a machine shop could make an adaptor to make the new gear box fit???
shane.

Laurier

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

David
I like the idea of the wheeles being elevated on the front and back to eliminate some of the bearing problems and to turn easier. If this works real good on the Avenger will we see it on all 8X8. I notice that the Avenger has the same wheel base as all the Other 8X8.

mike martindale (Wetsu)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII like it!!!!!!!!!!!

Roger Smith

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

It has to be a longer wheelbase.. it has taller tires than a response or conquest and at least as much space between them. My guestimate is 6" overall. They raised the end wheels to reduce turning resistance.. but is the tranny still an open differential.. what I'm curious about.

barryhh3f

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I would not be surprised to see ODG start using the new tub as the basis for all the 8X8s. Look what they did with the 6 wheelers after they stretched the tub for the Big Foot. It makes a lot of economical sense. Just as converting all the other ARGO products over to the new gear box and steering system. Prove it in the 8X8s, and as the production of the new gearbox system ramped up. Cut cost by putting them in other models.

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

guys,
lets not make guesses, let's just state facts,

so we dont confuse people ( like me)
shane

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

guys,
when the factory people go on rides ,
we should have a good look at thair 6x6 8x8

as they could have new experimental parts in them for testing.
shane

Damen T.Hill (Argoss)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I got a hold of an argo dealer, and he said there going to be about 14grand. I am going to be buying a new argo 8x8 this month or next, but what I am wondering is which is better for farm hauling a response or a conquest? I am getting a a powered dump box for whichever I get. my local dealer is getting his first delivery of avengers
on the 13th of this month, so I am going to look at them just for kicks, but I think I will get a response their cheaper and you can find a briggs dealer any where in the us, not ture with kohler or kawaski. i like the avengers higher towing and hauling capabilitys, that would be nice but not worth 4 grand more.

Vaughn

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

ODG has all the info up on there site on the avenger now. It looks like a very nice machine.

La-Mudbug

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

( David Keeso )

you have stated, in one of your most recent postings, that the new and soon to be released Argo "Avenger", will have a "completely new" and "redesigned" transmisson?

I would like you to ask the Argo dealer you mentioned in your recent posting, how exactly this new Argo transmission differs from the currently designed transmission,,that now comom in all Argo,s?

Richard Lamp

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I have a copy of the Avenger brochure, here are the dimensions and capacities:

Length 119 in.
Width: 60 in.
Height: 46 in.
Wheelbase: 72 1/16 in.

Load capacity: 1150 lbs
Towing capacity: 1800 lbs
Shipping weight: 1195 lbs

Speed 22 mph on land and 2.5 mph on water.

The brochure does state, "Power to all wheels for optimum performance in challenging terrain."

Looks like I'll be buying a new toy. Hope the wife forgives me.

Laurier

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Roger I was all over the ODG web sit and the specs on the Avenger state the same as the other 8X8's. They may have made up for the room by raising the front and rear tires, leaving the the over all distance the same. Or they for got change the specs on the web sit. Has anyone heard of any thing about this? I can't wait till I get back home off of this Peace keeping tour so I could run down to the deal and spend some time checking it out.

Louisiana Mudbug

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I recently went to the Argo website and searched for any new "updates" concerning the new Argo Avenger.

According to the current Argo website information ,the new Argo Avenger has :

an all new state-of-the-art automatic high & low range CVT transmission.

Is this safe to assume then, that the new Argo Avenger will have an automatic transmission similar to what is now being used on most current ATV 4-wheelers?

If so,,will this new Automatic "CVT" transmission designed for the Argo Avenger, have a belt drive set up, similar to what is curently used on most 4-wheel ATV,s or will it be like the hydrolic set up used by Honda on their Rubicon without any belts at all?

Also,,since most of the current 4-wheel drive ATV,s use either a limited slip differential or a postive traction, all wheel drive system like the Polaris,which one will the new Argo Avenger use?

Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

The Avenger's transmission appears to be the same basic trash heap as the Argo has had for 30+ years. I just checked out the specs and they read:
"Belt-driven,Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) maximizes engine power to the transmission with high and low range forward,neutral and reverse,compactly housed with an efficient planetary differential."

I'm sure everyone noticed that last word... differential. Surely they have forgotten to update that info on the specs page, even though ever other spec is changed. Words cannot express my disappointment. I thought this was THE machine. What were they thinking???

bostatv

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hi Everyone,
We have just finished the Southern Farm Show and decided it was time to put the new Avenger through its paces. Some of my concerns were how stable it is in the water and how well will it preform in very soft mud and\or swamp conditions since tracks are not readly available. The machine has preformed beyond expectation. In the water the machine is much more stable than I have been used to with the other Argo models. The machine handled great with 4 adults in the water. The normal unstable feeling with 4 people was no longer there. I also found that unlike most models that the Avenger will back up at a reasonable rate to get you out of a corner. Far as the mud and swamp condition I have tested the Avenger in thus far the machine has not hesitated to transverse with ease. Most of these areas I was in today,the Conquest for instance, would have had to have tracks to get through. The transmission has been very forgiving in the shifting ability. It is very smooth to shift from gear to gear with no scraping at all. The transmission is still a planatary transmission which uses the same principle as the old transmission. The idler chains have also gone to #60 single roller with the addition of auto chain tensioners on the front chains as well. The belly of the machine is somewhat tunneled which helps quite a bit in the very soft stuff. I also must say something about the new steering. It takes only a moment to get yourself very comfortable with its operation. Much like the handle bars on a bike with the throttle on the right and the brake on the left. The machine steered very well with 4 adults as well as 4 kids weighing an average of 100 lbs each. The steering is much easier to handle since it can be steered with just one hand and the effort is much less than the Conquest with simuliar loads. This is most likely due to several things including the center tires being lower as well as the extra horse power. The climbing ability was very good as well . Im sure this is due to the aggressive tires as well as horse power.The drain plug design has also been changed. Now we do not have to remove floor pans to access the drain plugs. They simply screw into the rescessed areas in the back of the machine from the outside and are positioned low enough that they drain very well. We also used the machine after dark and the head lights worked very well and spread the light far and wide. The only down fall I have found so far is that the machine is much higher which is a plus in all other applications but a downfall as far as getting into the machine. The new Avenger is very impressive and will be an addition to the commercial line of vehicles.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

La-Mudbug

If you want the dealer he is based in Allanford- about 3 hours out of Toronto (North) and I can give you his number. Or give Ron Bass a call down at ODG He is the plant manager for the ARGO division or something like that. Anyways, he is very high up in the company and can answer any of your questions. E-mail me at argo_mag@hotmail.com and I'll give you the dealer's number.

bostatv

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

In response to a very recent post talking about whether to by the Avenger for farm use aposed to a Conquest or Response. Go ahead and spend the extra 4 grand and leave off the dump box for now. It will be money very well spent and will pay for itself in its ability above the response or Conquest. I have had a n Avenger since the first of Feb. It is faster, more ground clearance, more horsepower, more stable in the water, easier to steer and more capable in very soft terrain.

Preston

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Brandon, James Bond, 007 whatever today.

There you go again being a A hole.
For someone who is alway trying to sell, you need
to learn to keep your mouth shut when it comes to
slaming things that you do not promote

Preston Boyle

Preston

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

EugeneKochnieff

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hey Brandon,

Gee mate you would think reading you posts that a differential is the greatest engineering mistake of all time! Quite simply there are millions of vehicles that would not be driveable without one, yes they do have limitations but if one diff is bad then the two inside a T-20 must be twice as bad!!!!!!!

Louisiana Mudbug

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

(bostatv)

Since you now currently own an Argo "Avenger", how would you describe the transmission used in it, when compared to Argo transmissions used prior to this new model?

This tranmission is:

1.limited slip" differential

2.limited slip differential, with a push button "all wheel lock" like used on the Yamaha
Grizzly,s or current Polaris atv,s?

3 Is it all wheel drive all the time?

Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

According to bostatv, the only transmission improvement is smoother shifting. Is this correct? Argo's new state of the art tranny shifts smooth?
I'm not knocking any brand of vehicle here, just the same as I'm not blinded by one company's poor attempt at making something new. The vehicle is nice but by leaving the tranny as a differential, I feel they have wasted their time. I was going to sell the Argo line and have nothing agaist them. I know my distributor very well and had the pricing set for a Bigfoot and Vanguard 2 and maybe one 8x8. I just can't bring myself to offer a product I don't believe in. I thought this new Avenger would change my opinion of the Argo vehicle. There is no way I'm going to praise a company for a half assed attempt. They could have done better and we all know it.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Preston

Wasn't it Brandon that said last week that he was thinking about starting an ARGO lineup with his MAX dealership?

At the same time, Brandon, don't you think you should test before you bash?

Now, lets all cut the crap and stop the constant fighting- everyone go test a new AVENGER, then complain about it. The only thing any of us can judge (with the exception of the few that own one or have use of one) is the looks of the new AVENGER. I think it does look pretty cool from the front, but I would love to see from the back and from a higher angle so you can see everything

bigkodiak

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

PHOTOS ARE HERE......WWW.BIGKODIAK.COM
Under the showroom link you will find numerous photos of the all new Argo Avenger. I will be writing a report of what I have seen, the GOOD and the BAD.
Overall the machine is very nice.
Russ

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

THEY FINALLY PUT CUP HOLDERS IN THE DAMB ARGO- HOW LONG HAVE WE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS TO HAPPEN??? ITS ABOUT FRIGGIN TIME THEY DID THAT- THATS LIKELY ONE OF THE MOST WELCOMING THINGS THEY COULD HAVE DONE IN MY OPINION!

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

guys,
this is mostly guess work

facts only please

no one can knock a new vehicle without either testing it ,
or seeing a exploded diagram of the parts and specs.

or at least a video (they could fake by edit when it gets bogged).

i'm of for a few days of hard work so can't reply.
shane

Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

"THEY FINALLY PUT CUP HOLDERS IN THE DAMB ARGO- HOW LONG HAVE WE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS TO HAPPEN??? ITS ABOUT FRIGGIN TIME THEY DID THAT"

David,
Please don't tell me that is what you have been waiting for? To me, having a cup holder is a dumb idea. When I go riding or when I am on an atv ride, a cup holder isn't going to hold any type of cups/bottles without spilling them. I guess if all you are going to do is just ride them very slow and on not that extreme terrain, then I guess that is ok, but to use these atv's the way they are built to be used, I can't see anything staying in a cup holder. I will say that I do like the looks of the new Argo and as soon as they get to dealers, I will take one out for a test ride. Also, David, you might not know Brandon that much, but I would say that there isn't 5 people on this board with more experience then him when it comes to 6x6's. He might be young, but He knows more about both Max and Argo's then most dealers do. I am not by any way trying to bash you either David. I am sorry if I said something here to get you mad.

dt5428

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I did not realize that there was a special way aatvs had to be driven.I use mine for hunting and work and have installed cup holders in our Conquest I think it is a great idea.As far as spilling they have a couple of new inventions out which are called caps or lids they work great if you need a picture of one let me know.LOL.I just wrote this because I am tired of anytime someone types something on this site you get bashed about it.How about some constructive help here.The poor guy from G.M. wants to buy an aatv and I did not see anyone helping him or encouraging him to buy one.You all can get your point accross without bashing these people everytime they have comment and this includes the Max and Argo dealers.

Later,Dan

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Midwest Atv's, your right, I havn't been waiting for cup holders. I very rarly have thought about it. But when I do go out for a ride in the summer, their are times when it would be nice. I am not off road a huge amount and I enjoy just riding around the area and those are the times when a cup holder would be nice. I have spilled a can or two of coke many times before in the ARGO from trying to free both hands to drive and putting the can down on the side. It is a welcome addition that proves that ODG listens to its customers requests. By the way, where did ODG get its design ideas from. When I look at the new AVENGER, I cant help but think they were looking for the MAX style.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Roger Smith

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Cupholders!! Ye haw! You don't have to drive with one hand anymore, with a rubber o-ring on the twist grip to make the throttle stay. Hey Mike Martindale! This Avenger will let you throttle and steer with one hand, allowing free access to the drink holders, or possibly the cooler behind. This brings up another overlooked Argo virtue. My 8 wheeler has more beer storage than any max. You might be able stack it high, but my storage starts a couple inches up off the hull. If you do pile on as much as I can, I'll challenge you to follow me up the side of a slope and do a doughnut. First machine to roll loses :)

shane forsythe (Shanefor1)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

dan dt5428,
the reason i knocked the mad shopper is he wants something for nothing,

if all people agreed with him then the dealers would be broke by now ,

just look at the mess max dealers are in out competing each other , driving 50 miles to do a demo then being under cut by some dude on the other side of the country,

or worse undercut by the factory after doing all the advertising and demo for them,

or worse a customer buying on the net and not getting his machine because the dude was a crook with some crim friends pretending to be happy customers, in reality they get a cut of the takings.

i'd to be on a ride with one mad shopper, when the engine's turned off you would still hear the wineing.

well i think he's probably bought a 4x4 by now,

when you tow him out for free just watch out that he doesn't keep your rope.

david k,
why not put a esky for drinks, you know the ones they plug into cigarette lighter.
shane.

Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hey David, I was just joking on my previous post. I have actually taken a cup holder for a car and connected them on some max's for Customers when they ask. I alway use a 20oz or 24oz bottle with a cap and they fit right next to the seat and unless I get air under the tires, it will stay there most of the time. I just talked to the Argo dealer around me and he doesn't know when he will be getting one in stock. I would like to see one up front and drive it.

bigkodiak

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Richard Lamp
I was researching all the data on the AVenger and did find the same specs as you have on your brochure.
There is a HUGE mistake in the wheelbase measurement. It is the same as what is listed for the Conquest and Response.
The minimum that the wheelbase can be is 75 inches.
Midwest
I am talking to the East Coast distributor, as soon as he gets one I am going to take a test drive. He is expecting 15 of them (or so he says) by the end of the month to fill dealer orders.
I will be posting a report on the overall appearance and finish of the machine on my website later today. Hopefully I will have a full blown test drive report in the next two weeks.
BigKodiak.com
Russ

Richard Lamp

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Russ,

I'm heading over to the website for your impressions. I've placed a deposit on an Avenger and if things go well I'll have it in a few weeks.

Richard

Louisiana Mudbug

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

( bigkodiak )

I tried to go visit your website:

www.BIGKODIAK.com and also www.bigkodiak.com

but no such luck? I tried both uppper case letters and also lower case letters as well,,but Yahoo could not find a match for the web address you posted here for either one of them?
Whats up with this?

RickMoMoBigfoot

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I've put a cup holder in my bigfoot a couple of years ago (for my 32oz.ers).It works find for me.I can go everywhere that the others go and havn't lost a drank yet.Rick

Big Wolf

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Well guys I gave it some more thought about what to rename the newly relesed Argo Avenger. David Keesso has once agian inspired me to give it more thought and toss out this other possible new name.

"Sasquatch" The Avenger has Arrived!!!

I realize this is just another name for Bigfoot, but it does instills the thought and vision of an even bigger Bigfoot. The grand daddy of all Bigfoot's!

bigkodiak

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Mudbug
Just type the site name WWW.BigKodiak.com into your address bar. Yahoo does not have my site listed even though I have submitted it numerous times.
The "First Impressions" article is now posted.
Big Wolf
I love the idea of the "SASQUATCH" It would be a great nickname for someones machine.
Russ

wetsu102

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

well boy's i just got a post card from odg,inviting me to go test drive the AVENGER!!! at my local dealer. and according to the post card it is all wheel drive.
and i had a cup holder in my bigfoot for a little over a year before i sold it.and the only beer i spilled was when i rolled down the hill at deepwater last year. thats what happens when you try to drive with 1 hand and drink with the other.ya hahaha.i'm going to try to get my dealer to let me test drive the AVENGER down at deepwater,so i can explore the new possibilities.if he dares.

bigkodiak

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Wetsu
The Avenger is 8 wheel drive just like a Bigfoot is 6 wheel drive.
I brought this up when I looked at the Avenger. The Avenger still has a differential. I did inquire as to a locking diff. but was told that they have "played with it a little" but at this time have no intention of implementing one.
Russ

Roger Smith

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

The avenger specs at argo's website look accurate now, not just a copy and paste of the response/conquest. Shows the wheelbase as 79". The other 8 wheelers have been/are 72". I think the overall body length is the same as the previous 8 wheelers.

Howard Hoover

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Russ, What kind of differential does the Argo use? You can use several kinds of lockers. I am still in the planning stages of my build and I think I will use a lock right locker if I can find one to fit they don't require any special tools to install they even showed how to install a lock right locker on Horse Power TV today I thought now there's a coincidence They stay locked all the time until you turn and then they disengage! Or you could use an air locker and you could have an air compressor also that is needed for the air locker to run tools inflate tires rafts or an air mattress in your tent etc. I have never been in an argo and don't know how it would effect the steering but i think you would need a unit that would disengage in order to steer.

mike martindale (Wetsu)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

well my dealer doesn't have one yet. and may not get one for a while. he wasn't sure when.he didnt even have the free video tape of the avenger. he did however have nice looking conquest he wanted to sell me.i had to leave,before my next stop would have been divorce court.

fred

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Brandon: I find it hard to beleive that you are a dealer for R.I., or anything else that has to do with sales. You do not bash the competition, to sell your product, ask any salesman!

Roger Smith

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Fred, Brandon's thinking of taking on the argo line, so maybe he's critiquing his own product :)

He's just disappointed the tranny isn't everything it could be.

Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Well, last weekend I got to see the Avenger in person. Its a very nice atv, makes the Conquest look small. I have to say I like it. It would be better if it came with full time 6 wheel drive like the Max. I do think it will out perform any other Argo out there with no problems. I do wonder about its trail riding capabilities, since it is bigger then the Conquest, I think it might not work on some of the trails and off road parks that we have rides. I guess I won't know until someone buys one and brings it to a ride. One thing that I did notice that I didn't know about it before. The seat is 1" farther back and 3" higher. I think that is good for big/tall people, but might be bad for small/shorter people unless you have a roll cage and seatbelts on to keep you in the seats. Oh yea, the cup holders are on the passenger side, I didn't see a cup holder for the driver.

Louisiana Mudbug

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

( Midwest atv )

I recently visited "Big Kodiaks" Amphibious website, and veiwed several pics of the new Argo Avenger,and I like it as well!

Its a Fine looking amphib for sure,,no doubt about that!

I was disapointed though,,that this newly designed Argo only comes with a newly designed tranmission case,,but with the same internal gear setup.

If this bad boy had a tranmission that would allow full time 8 wheel drive,,then this would be the best for sure ,and also give the Max line of amphibs a run for their money!

As to your recent posting,,about the front seat being 1 inch farther back,and also 3 inch higher as well, I would have to assume that this is because of the raised hood, that is now needed to cover the new 25 hp liquid cooled Kolier that comes in it.

Eddie Beddingfield

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Why is it everyone wants to redesign the Argo transmission? I for one dont think there is a problem with a proven design.Look at the last time you have read about failures in this trans. ,they are very reliable,with no adjustments. They are also simple to operate and maintain.I think in the near future you may see a cable operated locker like the Warn unit for 4 wheel ATV's available for this trans.You would be able to lock it in a strait line and release it for turns.

Mike Longest

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Eddie

I agree the ARGO trans and system for the
most part works well

Mike Longest

Roger Smith

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Sure, the argo trans, and all the rest of the driveline is bulletproof. The gripe is the open differential. First time I went riding with others, John Martin and his Dad in Max's, it was obvious that all wheels turning was the thing to have for swimming in mudholes.

A push button locker, that's on my to do list.

John Martin

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Just like in full size vehicles with open diffs; you lift a tire and you are screwed. I have noticed they are coming out with more types of electric/magnetic, and cable lockers instead of just the old ARB air lockers. The Toyotas and the Jeep Rubicon are great examples. Maybe they will be able to rig up one of those in an Argo. If they do it will be one heck of a machine. I think Argo ought to try a rear engine version. I would like to see what they would come up with. An Avenger with a locker-now that's a good idea! For the price of these machines, anything you got is better than nothing. Ride on.

Howard Hoover

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

You can put a locker in the differential your self if you know what kind of rear end it is. There is more than likely some kind of locker for it!

Who knows what type of rear end it is??????

Attex Bob

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

A locker in a skid steer. Hmmmmmm, I think I'll pass.

Going down a hill with it locked in and you come to a cliff on the right side and need to turn and can't get the thing unlocked in time...... Nope, I think I'll pass.

dakota

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Funny you mention the Jeep Rubicon .A bucnh of Argo guys where up on the rubicon trail when Chrysler was testing them.The result was the trail won , and all 5 had to be towed out.

John Martin

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Any hardcore 4X4 will have lockers in front and rear differentials or welded spools if they want full time four-wheel drive. They have new lockers that are coming out for all types of applications have the ability to be locked and unlocked at the flip of a switch like what would be needed in the Argo Avenger. If you drove an Argo with a well-engineered selectable locker, you would never go back to the open differential transmission that they currently have (at least I never would). As far as the Jeep Rubicon-Lockers can and will cause parts to break, mainly because both wheels are spinning at the same rate (locked). If you are going to use lockers in an extreme environment then you must also upgrade your running gear i.e., u-joints, axle shafts, bearings, transmission, clutch, etc. Maybe the current Argo transmission with a locker would grenade and fold up under the increased traction just like the little Jeep Rubicon apparently did. ODG should have developed the Avenger with a new transmission that had a selectable locker or another traction aid that allows for all wheel drive like the Max and then they would have a nice piece of work. Open differentials are the weak point of the Argo brand as far as I am concerned.

Marc Stobinski (Jerseybigfoot)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

There is no way you are going to fit a locker in the Argo planetary differential. No spiders, no room.
The skilled Argo driver does not need a locking diff. The AATV beginner may find a T-20 easier to drive and not get stuck.
The T-20 driver would have to rethink how to drive an Argo. I have had both and there is even a big difference in T-20 Max with latteral springs and T-20 Attex /Hustler with out springs.
The new Avenger uses a single T-bar to steer and a motorcycle hand brake lever making braking available during turning. With this arrangement its possible to reduce wheel slip by dragging the brakes (old school limited slip}.

Richard Lamp

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I take delivery of my Argo Avenger in the morning. Anyone in Colorado have any suggestions on some decent trails? I live in Colorado Springs area.

lcater

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

David (Argomag), I am trying to send you an email as I am looking at an 8X8 Magnum and have some questions. Can you please post your correct email address or email me back from the link?
Thanks

Len Cater (Lcater)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

David (Argomag), please email me from the link as I have an email to send you.I am looking at a Magnum and have some questions.
Thanks

Roger Smith

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I don't know, Richard. When you find them I'll come out from Tulsa to ride with you.

I've been reading www.colorado4x4.org for a year.. lots of 4WD trail info. I guess your argo will have a high altitude jet? or is that add on.

I'd like to go to Holy Cross City, it's too rough for my 4WD.

Richard Lamp

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

lcater,
You should be able to reach me at:

lamric@rocketmail.com

Richard Lamp

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

lcater,
You should be able to reach me at:

lamric@rocketmail.com

Richard Lamp

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

The Argo dealer here in the Springs is going to show me some trails. As for the high altitude jetting, I'm currently at 6300 feet and don't seem to have much of a problem here. I'll let you know when I take it to a higher altitude.

Richard Lamp

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Tim Wheeler (Tnmwheel)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Richard I live IN north west CO and know of some trails around here to ride. Let me know if you would like to get together for a ride. Idont know much abought your area as far as rideing, but would be willing to come down there if you finde some. I found one trail last summer just north of here in WYO that is 42 mile round trip. Its in a area of old ghost towns, with lots of history. Tim

fred

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Ran the ARGO AVENGER for 4 hours saterday, in 200 acres of flooded timber. The new steering is great, you can drive with one hand easily. The transmision is a lot quieter, and seems to keep both sides engaged, with much less effort. The power and the ride are both outstanding. The area I rode in is where I duck hunt, I have always managed to get around in it with the other 8x8s, but the AVENGER makes it no challenge at all. BASH ALL YOU WANT!! ODG has a home-run on the market.

bigkodiak

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Tim
I am planning a trip to WY this summer. I wasn't planning on bringing my Argo but I might be persuaded to with a traail like that.
Can you get me some more info?
Russ

Tim Wheeler (Tnmwheel)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

bigkodiak sent you a email on WY where are you located?

Richard Lamp

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Roger and Tim,

I travel a lot and would like to take both of you up on the offers to go riding. Email me and I'll provide you with a contact number.

lamric@rocketmail.com

Roger Smith

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Well, that's 4 of us that could get together. I try to go to Colorado at least once a year, usually the Fall, to 4WD, hike, fish. A Spring/Summer aatv trip would be nice if we made that happen. I have tracks so a snow trip would be fine, too. I'll e-mail you guys soon.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

lcater

I sent you an e-mail back- sorry, I've been away for a couple days so I didn't see your post for me. I am home for a few days so I'll keep checking my e-mail

tnmwheel

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Richard,Roger,& bigkodiak Sounds good,this will be the first chance Ive had to ride with other AATVers usuealy ride with 4 wheelers. They wait for me on the smoother parts and I wait on them in the really rough stuff. Any one who would like to come would be welcome. Its a preatty remote place the closest "town" is around 20 miles away. The road there is paved till you turn off to camp then its about 2 mile of dirt. When I get my old computer working agin I will post a picture or two from the area. From middel of July on would be good for me. There might even be some snow drifts left op high. Heck I'd like to go to Holly Cross also, went to Marble last summer & rode the Lead King Basin trail it was preatty good also. I am in the owners list in Co

Len Cater (Lcater)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Got it David, thanks. I have been out of town for a few days at the cottage running my new (new to me) 2001 Argo Bigfoot! What a hoot.
As for cup holders, I have a couple of old landrovers which have no cup holders, and have found the best thing to use are bicyle bottle holders. Available in many colours, and if you choose a style which has the narrower bottoms to them, they will hold cans as well. I figure they will mount nicely in the front corners, next to the firwall (once I check for anything behind).

Wes Kay

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hi all. I just drove the Avenger today. I was impressed. I love the new steering. The machine turned very easily even on dry pavement. I could steer the machine and use the throttle all with one hand. To stop the machine there is now a hand brake like a bike would have. Works very well. Machine has lots of power and is very quiet. I was quoted a price of $15400 plus tax for the base model. I have had an older 8x8 for quite a while. Time to get a new one.

bigkodiak

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Wes
The machine I looked at was $13,900.
Russ

argoguru

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Wes,
what state are you from?

Don Millington (Donsargo)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Wes,
I am going to the Deepwater Mo. ride next weekend and will bring my in stock Avenger for evaluation. I am anxious to see how it does. Hope to see you! I was at Deepwater today checking the campsites and it sure looks fun and muddy.

Richard Lamp

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I took my new Avenger out for the first time today. Went to a construction zone and ran it through its' paces over loose dirt mounds and through rock lined drainage ditches. I was impressed, the Argo's capabilities exceeded I was willing to attempt.

Big Wolf

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hey guys,

Please keep posting more detailed updates of the performance and opinions of the new Argo Avenger. I would like to hear much more performance and handling stuff from the poeple and dealers that have them and are putting them through the try out.

As much as I like the performance and ability of my new Max IV-950T machine with the 27 HP Kawasaki liquid cooled engine, I still have a desire and need for a larger capacity 8x8 machine. That 6x6 Max 950T is a great machine for most of the stuff that I need and use it for, but I still want a larger machine in addition to owning the Max 950T.

Bubba

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Howdy again from Alaska.I do enjoy all of the postings. I have spent a lot of miles this winter in my partners argo and really enjoyed that too.I suppose that we took a dozen trips into the back-woods on fishing and wolf hunting trips.
I see all of the excitement about the Avenger. Kool!! I noticed what the price was in some cases. Well, I'm still sold on the old Hydro Traxx.I paid a whooping $13,500 for it, and got hydraulic controls. I don't need to re-design my tranny because I don't have one. I don't have any chains to lube because I don't have any. I turn nice smooth "round" corners by simply adding a little power to one side.Why, I can make the tracks on one side go in opposite directions as the other side by simply reversing my sticks.I guess that I will probably never go back to the skid-steer simply because I'm lazy and at my age, I don't care to be jerked around.Some may say that I'm about to get drinched in boiling oil, but I have never been able to get the oil much over warm. I can handle "warm".
I still marvel that everyone seems to want to hang on to the old skid steer concept. I suppose that to each his own.I do feel like an out cast some times because the Hydro Traxx is so "different" that we just just don't fit in very well.Since I don't have any maintenance to do , I just sit and look at it when I'm not out busting swamps.My good-looking wife can't understand why I don't sit and look at her with that same gleam in my eye.I do,Hon, I do!!
Bubba

Big Wolf

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hey Bubba,

Please keep posting notes on your experiences with that Hydro Traxx machine! I read all your postings and I like the information that you provide about your machine, it's some good stuff. I will be checking into the Hydro Traxx in more detail as I have time available. I did E-mail Brian at Hydro Traxx and asked him to mail me all the information and a video tape, however, he did not do that for waht ever reason. Maybe he thought that I was not serious enough to send the information too. I will probably call him and make the request once again!

I still like to hear much more about the new Argo Avenger also! It's always good to check out every thing avilable out there on the market.
During my last visit at our local Argo distributor's place, I was not able to see and try out the Avenger. I have been talking with John Hoath over the phone on occassion and picking his brain about the new Avenger.

Rumor has it that Argo has been working on and trying out some new Kimpex Brand rubber tracks for the Avenger. It also sounds like they are trying some very wide tracks, even wider than the current plastic super tracks, for even better weight distribution in snow applications, which is very good to here. I also hear that they are experimenting with an aggressive molded tread pattern on the rubber tracks for better traction and better performance in water application with tracks installed. If they do mange to pull off these new items, which I think they will, they may just turn a game winning home run into a series winning grand slam!
Of course this information is just off the cuff non official discussions.

I was going to buy another Max machine, a Max II with the big engine fully loaded from R.I., to use as a second demo machine, however, since my recent experience with their business practices, I am letting the Max stuff die on the vine!

Although I do like their products particularly my Max IV-950T machine, I just cannot keep doing business with some one that I can't trust any farther than I can physically throw, or drag out back and whip the piss out of, and then shake hands, walk back in and continue doing business! For those reading this message please do not misunderstand what I am saying here, the latest R.I. products are very good stuff, they build very good quality stuff today, they are not as luxurious as the Argo or Hydro Traxx products, but they are good products and will work just fine for you, the factory tech support and parts support is excellent! I just have way too much business experience to listen to a sales and marketing person blow smoke up my back end, and try to lure me into making bad business decisions to support a loosing cause!

When R.I. gets serious about setting their pricing structure down lower where they really should be, and also leave them there, and stop trying to prey on and lure unsuspecting dealers into making bad choices, then they will have reached a higher level, and sell much more product and solidify their business position and market share.

R.I. or any one else, do log on and say what you want to say, and do what you what to do fellows. I just tell it like it is from my own perspective, and I do know where the crap hits the pavement!

Please do continue to post the messages about the performance of the new Avenger and also the Hydro Traxx machines! I do like to read about them!

I will also continue to post my experiences and photos of the Max IV-950T machine, for those who do want to read about and see it.

At some point in time I will eventually pick up a larger machine, maybe even both the Avenger and the Hydro Traxx, who knows. When ever I do get on a buying tear, it's always a good one to watch!

Later fellows!

Bubba Hunt

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hey old Big Wolf,glad to see you are still thinking.I am impressed the way you study things out and I appreciate your open-mindedness.Personally I usually have to learn things the hard way. Today was a nice example. I took off my tracks and put those big, tall 27 in High-Lifters back on.I needed to know how they would do in this sloppy-wet snow. I done pretty well in the stuff until I decided to dive off in to about half-way-to-the-butt stuff.I am glad it was in my yard and no one seen it. I am also glad for that 4500 lb. wench. My neighbor has been getting stuck in his snowmachine, but not nearly as stuck as I got.I was glad that I could wench myself at a 90 degree angle. I was able to do it as I reversed my wheels and spun around.I do believe that I can wench at more than the 90 degrees. I'll probably find out if I keep messing around in this stuff.I do these things to see just how much I can do. It is like when I learned to fly, I practiced stalls so I could learn how to deal with them.This is the way I learn what my abillities are and what my machine can do.I much rather get stuck up here on my mountain than in some swamp 30 miles back in the pucker-brush.It is also a good idea to have someone handy that can jank you out.
So far I haven't been able to break anything on this critter. If something is weak, I will find it.I really would rather use the big tires this moose season because they are better in the rivers and lakes. They also work well in most boggs and tall grass.What I would like to do is get my dogs on a good rubber track. I'll keep looking.Gravel is rough on these plastic tracks, and I don't like the noise.Well, I'm off to do some more playing.
Bubba

Big Wolf

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

We need to mail you a digital camera, so you can start taking some nice photo's of your adventures up there in Alaska! It looks like we will stay down here in the lower states area, to camp and hunt and so on for this year. I want to get some more shorter trips under my belt and keep testing all my gear and stuff before we make our first drive trip up to Alaska. I need to get a hitch installed on the rear of the fifth wheel camper to tow the ATV trailer, and I need to get some road time and experience hauling the double tandem set up. Hopefully we will be coming up there either next year or the year after, maybe late summer or early fall.

We want to fish and camp our way up there and back, and I would like to bust a couple of nice Caribou bulls and maybe a nice Bear while I am up there.

Your non skid steer rig should be ideal for running a set of those 15" wide or wider Kimpex rubber tracks, like R.I. makes. I know a Max dealer down here that makes his own rubber track kits for the Max machines, and he has the cast aluminum wheel guides made also. The only question is the width of your 27" tires, will they fit on the 15" wide rubber tracks, and still have enough room to mount the aluminum wheel guides on the sides. If there is a width and fit problem, you could turn the wheel guides around to point the opposite direction which may allow for a wider tire to be used.

If you want the contact information for this guy, just let me know, or you could ask Brian from Hydro Traxx to get with this guy and check out the feasibility of making a set of tracks just for your application. I am sure they can find a way to make them work for you.

Talk to you later fella!

Bubba Hunt

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Big Wolf,I do have a digital camera if I would use the thing. I also have a few fishing pictures so maybe I'll send them. I don't intend to use the 27 in tires for the tracks. I use 22 in tires for that. Yep, I would like to get that address from you. If you want to send it to my e-mail, that would be Kool.
Keep me posted when you want to wrestle a bear. I am writing a book about growing up back in the brush. If you would like to take a peek at the transcript let me know. There is a lot on how to keep from getting tuned-up by a bear like I did in 1986.
I also know where those Boo's live along with a few moose. Speaking of fishing, the world record king was caught in front of my place. I believe it was 98.7 lbs.
Bubba oldbearhunter@gci.net

DanC

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hey Guys,I didn't read all the post above so sorry if this has been asked,but,has any body tried to fit the new Avenger steering system on to an older Argo??
I was looking at the system at the dealers and it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to do some mods to it to make things work
What do you guys think,or am I way out in left field on this
Dan

Big Wolf

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Bubba I will send you the contact information for that guy via e-mail. The 22 inch tires should work just fine with the rubber tracks and cast aluminum wheel guides. R.I. uses the Goodyear Rawhide 21x11.00-8 tires when using their tracks. The real key item is the width dimension to fit and space the side wheel guides on each side of the wheel properly. He can make them what ever length you want, and little extra to trim off for proper fit, and then you make the final splices end to end.

I would defintely like to read your new book transcripes one day!

cchadgill

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hello Everyone
I have just purchase a new Argo Avernger with
most of the toys. ie.. Winch, Super Tracks, mud flap,
22"tires and rims because the super tracks will not work
with the 25", and out board motor mount. I have a 96 a
marsh it am turning into a duck hunting club. The marsh
is over grown with reads and cattails. I have water from
3inches to 3 feet. Bottom ranges from hard sand to a
muck that you can sink in over 3 feet. I lost a set of hip
waders out there last year. I will be using my Avenger
this weekend out there and would like to find some
place to post the photos. If there is any photo shots that
anyone would like to see just let me know. Would love
all the help I can get and would like to give everyone
the chance to see what one can do..
Thanks

DanC

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I'd love to see the pic's if you can e-mail them to me that would be great
I just finished a total rebuild on a 83 8x8 and I've yet to try it out,sure would like to see what they can do
If anyone else has any pic's of argo's that the would like to send feel free
Thanks
Dan
dancoulson@shaw.ca

Louisiana mudbug

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

( cchadgill )

Yes,,I for one,,and I,m sure others would too,love to see some good action pics and also the mudding ability of your new Argo Avenger. post em here so we can all look .... hint, hint.

Big Wolf

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hey Bubba, I e-mailed that information to you, so let me know if you do not receive it!

Yes sir I would like to hear and see more of the Avenger in action photos. If you are not able to get them posted here on Route 6x6, I can post them either on my web site server or create a new photo album on my cable and internet providers server, Comcast.net via their Snap Fish photo album. The Snap Fish storage and posting method is a bit too restrictive for my taste though, I am forced to e-mail an invitation to view the photo albums to myself, and then cut and paste a link for others to sign in and view. It works but its a bit stupid to be forced to do it that way.

You may be able to post photos for sharing and viewing on your own internet providers server, who ever you are signed up with like Yahoo, MSN, AOL and so on. I have saw such photos posted that way.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Well, I finally had a day off and an opportunity to go down to New Hamburg to the ARGO plant and test the new AVENGER. All I have to say is "WOW" compared to my MAGNUM, this thing isn't even comparable- its totally different, but at the same time, very similar to mine. As strange as that sounds, thats how I felt about it. The steering is extremely easy to use and get used to, the thing has tons of power and the first thing I noticed when Bob Hunter was driving was that when he started up a hill, and he turned, he didn't increase the throttle at all or decrease, and the ARGO just kept going- no power loss at all, not even for a second.

I also talked to Ron Bast while I was there and he was describing some of the new features of the AVENGER and why some things were the way they were. As most of you know, the front and back wheeles are slightly elevated and that is for the turning on any terrain. Because the tires are so big, and heavy (believe it or not) raising the front and back up just a tiny bit helps the ARGO pivot so much easier. I had an opportunity to turn the vehicle around on pavement outside the plant and I compared it to mine. With mine, to get it to move from a standstill on pavement, it takes almost half throttle to get it moving, the avenger, no more than a quarter throttle. Their is also an accelerator pump on the AVENGER that is standard. This is to cut the delay from when you open the throttle to when the vehicle moves. No more reving up and then the vehicle goes. It just goes when you first open the throttle and it goes very smoothly. The frame of the AVENGER is now tubular as opposed to the old square type that is in most of the older ARGO vehicles.

As far as accessories go with the AVENGER, the tracks should be out within 5-7 months, and they will be rubber and will not require tire and wheel swapping to get them on. Their is also a chance, not at all promised, but its in the works- a remote control winch, but real remote control- no wires to deal with- more like the remote for a car to lock and unlock the doors. Thats what they are working on right now.

The sales for the AVENGER are exceeding their expectations and they are now having minor trouble keeping the other ARGOs selling. Bob told me today that they are only making the other vehicles on a order type basis- customer wants one, its made for them, not making more than their are orders for. He was also telling me that the dealers and distributers are looking at a June delivery date for the AVENGER and as long as October for customers to get them- yes, some already have one, but their is a long wait list now.

Another thing to note that you may or may not have noticed is that on the front seat their used to be a section that was raised just about 2 inches higher than the seat(right under the seat back, thats now gone for a very good reason- TAILBONE DAMAGE GONE!! With that piece gone, you can sit much more comfortably and the seatback is slightly higher and angled better so you do not have to reach as far and you are very comfortable. The final drive system is different than the other ARGOs, it now had a different chain than the others were using- used to be the double RC50 then it went to I think single rc60 and now its something else except for the very front chains (they looked like double rc50 but I wasn't 100% sure and the chains from the brakes down to the other are the old style.

Also, the new tranny is almost silent. Ron Bast told me that as the engines they were using became quieter and quieter, you would notice the tranny sounds more and more and it almost would sound like a whine. I could only hear it once when the engine was idle and the argo was rolling down a hill as part of the demonstration. Their is also a little pocket on the firewall for storage or for whatever fits in (sunglasses, cell phone, garage door opener, etc.) Their is lots of legroom for the driver and except for the ARGO being slightly higher up to get into, the way the side is lowered and raised in places is a major advantage than the climbing in over the side to get in the back.

Overall, I was extremely impressed with the new AVENGER and unfortunatly, I forgot to stop off at a drug store to get a disposable camera after realizing I forgot mine. I will be going back in a few weeks to go for a tour of the plant (no time today) so I will try to get pics then. When I have a chance, I'll scan the brochure for the AVENGER and post it with Richard Clark.

Have a great weekend all!

Motown's (Bigwolf)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hey David, did you get the opportunity to test out the Avenger in water during your visit to the Argo Factory? I am curious to hear and know more about how it performs in water with respect to stability and so on!

Every thing else that you have shared about it sounds very good!

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

(Bigwolf) No unfortunatly they don't have much in the way of water at the plant. The last time I was there, they did have a small area deep enough to float but since ODG expanded and built the new building (the gear division) the test area was greatly reduced and now its only a big hill, and a fairly round area to drive around in and up the hill, it gives you enough of in idea how the machine works there though. When I go up to the cottage next myself, I will stop in at the dealers up there and test it in water. Bob Hunter did tell me that the Avenger is now much better in water. It still sits low in the front but thats simply because of the engine being in the front. The tires are a lot bigger than the normal tires used and as a result and also the fact that their is 8 means that the ARGO had to have more than 20 hp which is why they now use the 25 hp kohler engine. They have also made the engine compartment much easier to navigate through while working on the machine. You can easily reach down the front of the engine to do what needs to be done, and with the firewall off, you can get to the chains and tranny much easier. The only thing that I didn't really like was the new shift lever on the AVENGER. It is a different one now that is more like a H shift pattern. I found it slightly hard to get into gear but that was also because the one I drove was a prototype and it gets used to try different things (accessories etc.)

One other thing to note with the AVENGER is the battery. It is now under the seat and still has a storage area as well. Its not as big as the older ones but its slightly deeper to compensate. When you look at it, it looks like the gas tank is much bigger but I don't know if it is or not.

Their was one other important thing to note but I can't remember it right now so when I do i'll post it. Overall, I found the avenger to be a very solid vehicle, with the same feel as any other ARGO but with very distinct characteristics and modifications that make things easier. The shipping weight of the new AVENGER is 1205 lbs. The conquest shipping weight is 1025 lbs. That is without accessories.

Richard Lamp

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Bigwolf,

I took my Avenger into the water and it feels pretty stable. It's definetly nose heavy but makes decent headway, turning is a whole different story. I recently ordered a 6 hp outboard motor and mount and expect delivery before the end of the week.

I have some pictures if you're interested.

lamric@rocketmail.com

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Richard, If possible can you please send me a pic of the Avenger in water?

If possible, my e-mail is argo_mag@hotmail.com

Thanks in advance!

Motown's (Bigwolf)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hello Richard,

The stability in water is a key point of interest for me. Just looking at the brochure photo's, the bigger tires and the new tub shape should make the Avenger feel even more stable in water. The slight nose heavy feeling looks like it would balance out real good with some weight in the back end, like some gear or even one passenger back there.

A 6 hp outboard should push it along much more efficiently than the wheels, for near shore fishing or duck hunters.

I am waiting for the Good Doctor "Argoguru" to get an Avenger, so me and Dan can pay him a visit and abuse, I mean test drive his machine.

I would definately like to see your photo's of the Avenger! If you would like me to post your sequence of photo's up on Comcast and Snap Fish photo album and also provide a link for others to access and view the album, I would be glad to do that.

My e-mail address is listed in my user profile, which you can access by clicking on my user I.D. on this message thread!

I have had a couple of Argo dealers e-mail me and also call me by phone just to talk and share their experience with me about the new Avenger also. I think that is just excellent for them to do that kind of stuff! They were not trying to sell me any thing, they only wanted to give me their honest assessment of the machine.

I hope that others will continue to do the same and share their experience and honest assesment of new model products. I know the fur does fly on occasion here, but it has been very good lateley, when the discussion stays on the subject at hand.

Motown's (Bigwolf)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Richard your photo's look real good! The Avenger does not appear to be very nose heavy at all in the photo's.

That is a good looking rig you have there!

I am wondering how it would look after I got my hands on one and did some customizing work to it!

I would definately have to give it a new nick and call it "Sasquatch"!

DanC

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Richard, the pic's you sent me didn't show up,just got a blank screen.
If you get a chance can you try again
Thanks
Dan

Richard Lamp

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Dan,

I'll send each picture as a separate email, maybe that'll help.

Richard

poluras

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I would like to see a picture as well
thanks troy twbalduc@mtu.edu

Richard Lamp

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

DanC,

I sent the pictures to you a second time, they were returned because your mailbox is full.

Motown's (Bigwolf)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Well I see that Argo has just announced this month that the rubber track kit is now available for the new Argo Avenger. According to the news release that I read, it said the new rubber tracks are 18" wide and have light weight molded polycarbonate wheel guides. It also mentioned that the tracks will work a little better in water applications also.

Sounds like it is a real good rubber track kit!

Motown's (Bigwolf)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hey you fellows that own the new Argo Avengers out there, please keep every one posted on how they are performing for you. I for one do enjoy reading about and hearing about how the new model machines perform.

I try to provide periodic updates regarding the Max 950T also, for those that want to read about it!

Thanks

Bill cripe (Bcripe)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Does the avenger need a track kit or is it good to go the way it is?

MUD MAN ( - 65.1.52.98)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Bill Cripe

If you had a max 2 or max 4 you would not need a track kit because max is the best.Second argo.

Rogersmith (Rogersmith)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I would guess the kit has the standard argo wheel spacers used on the plastic supertracks. That would be it. No need for a max style external hardware kit to brace the bearings and axles. Argo uses an alloy axle bearing extension housing that moves the outer wheel bearing closer to the wheel flange. They're standard equipment front and rear on the top models, standard front/optional rear on everything else but the entry level vanguard.

Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

What Roger is saying is that the Argo Avenger already has bearing cages on the front and rear. It will be interesting to see how the Argo axles react to the rubber track on the Avenger. With the front and rear wheels raised, they will be under constant pressure two ways (not one as the Max system is) meaning down (trying to align the wheels) and "toward the tire next to it" as a result of the tension of the track going around the wheels. Every time the front and rear axles turn, they will be stressed. I'm a little curious how the middle two axles will hold up on the wheeled model because they will be supporting most of the machines weight usually. With tracks, they will have the tension created by the weight of the vehicle as well as the tension from the track (again trying to align the wheels).

I think there will be tremendous pressure on the front and rear axles when the machine is turned and the Avenger will not have the benefit of an equal part of the machines' weight on each tire as the front and rear tires are off the ground by about 3/4".

I'm also having a hard time in my mind trying to figure out what the ground pressure really will be as most of the machines' weight will be carried by the four middle tires. The machine will not have as good of flotation as one initially thinks or as a simple calculation might indicate.

Time will tell. Don't forget that the Max did not start out with the bearing rail and bearing cages (or new forged steel axles and flanges) when the new rubber belt track came into being. All that came later. My guess is that Argo too, will tie all the axles together with some sort of a rail to spread the work evenly to all four axles on a side. I also bet the bearing cages become standard on all eight wheels.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Fred, the one thing to remember with new avenger is that the front and rear wheeles are only up slightly higher than the middles. I have driven the new Avenger at the plant in New Hamburg and I thought that the vehicle would have problems too since its all in the middle wheeles but thats not the case at all. With the front and back wheeles slightly raised, it allows for the ARGO to turn much easier, as soon as the terrain changes slightly, the front and back wheels have ground contact and are working, or when their is any added weight to the empty machine, the wheeles are all on the ground. WHen you are running through rough terrain, each wheel is working on the ground. When you look at the machine on level ground (say a factory floor) the front and rear wheeles are obviously raised, but so slightly that even when you put one person in, the others are in contact again. I don't think they would have developed a new track system that put added strain on the drive system. If anything, having the front and rear wheeles off the ground slightly, gives less drag while trying to turn from slow speeds (actually, surprisingly less drag, you can turn with much less throttle even on hard packed dirt and paved surfaces and it eliminates the hopping that we sometimes see in these tires when you turn on hard ground. The Avenger is a very solid machine, and even though when i first saw it I was very hesitant as I saw that they replaced the old chain setup with much smaller chains but as soon as I drove it, i knew it was actually better, easir to get it going, easy to turn, takes only seconds to get the steering figured out, much smoother etc.

By the way Fred, if you go to the ARGO website and look at the article about the new tracks for the avenger and look at the pic, you can't even tell the front and back wheeles are slightly raised.

Rogersmith (Rogersmith)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Oh Fred.. the sky isn't falling, no need for the doom and gloom outlook. If it wasn't for argo setting a standard, your max would still be rolling on hollow axles spinng in a BUSHING. How lame is that. But it saved weight, and psi is everythng! (chuckle) Just having fun with ya..

I got inspired by the avenger's staggered axle heights, and redrilled/bored the frame for the 4 center axles on my Response, lowered them a 1/2" like the avenger. Just came back from a test drive, and it's the best mod I've ever dreamed up. It was tough to turn with the bigger tires and wheels I added, now it steers with less effort than the stock runamucks. Rides smoother and climbs better.

David Keeso (Argomag)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Ah Roger, how do you think your ARGO will stand up long term with your modification?

By long term I mean bearings, chains, sprockets, axles etc- were all those taken into account or did you just go for it and see what happens?

Dave Johnston

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I made some comments on the AVENGER on the RUBICON elsewhere. I had thought of just putting slightly SMALLER tires on the front and rear and seeing what that did. It would be the same as changing the axles in regards to which tires touch the road, but the smaller tires would turn a bit faster so may wear quicker. One problem I noted with harder tires was "resonate frequency" where you get bouncing with the tires and it just seems to keep getting worse as you progress. By changing tire size, I think that issue would be less of a problem as the tires would "bounce" at different frequencies. Since I am now about to change to my WINTER driving set up, I will give the tire sizing plan a try. Will let you all know how it works.

Rogersmith (Rogersmith)

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Hi David, I posted earlier but it never showed up. I might start a new topic about it sometime.. don't want to tie up the Avenger thread.

Bubba Hunt

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Howdy again out there AATV land. I've not had much to say for a while, and I didn't want all of my old "Home Boys" to think I had croaked or something. The truth is I have been out bagging up tons of moose meat, yanking on some king salmon lips, hauling 10 cords of wood up out of my canyon, and all with my old Hydro-Traxx.So far I haven't been able to break anything.I was sure I could break a chain, sprocket, or something, and then I remembered that it is all hydraulic. I was glad to put my fears to rest, especially in grizz country. I always waited until dark to come up out of the brush and walking wasn't an option. Getting too old to pack out much of anything.
My hunting partner managed to set his A--o on fire. He didn't get burned. It did cost him a week of hunting.
Soon we will be teaming up and going after some wolves as soon as it freezes up. Then we will be out yanking some fish out of ice holes. Sigh...so much to do and only 9 monthes of winter to do it in.
It is only 11 monthes to moose season again and I can feel my neck starting to swell already.
By the way, I found all three of those grease zerks on my HT. One was on the brake handle and the other two are on the steering levers. I just hate having to bother with greasing those things every year. It sure cuts into my "PLAY" time.
Hey, my book, "The Wilderness Trail" is out in most book stores.
George "Bubba" Hunt,shadowmountainoutdoors.com

Howard Hoover

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Do you wear ear plugs when you take that thing out ? I would because I don't think I could stand the constant reving of the engine for very long.
What engine do you have in your machine? hey you know if you have one with the diesel engine you can get a kit or convert it yourself to run on used vegetable oil.

Howard Hoover

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

With all that Bragging you've been doing your bound to end up stranded somewhere it doesn't matter what kind of machine you have sooner or later a man made part will break or wear out or something and those Grizzly Bears you've been talking about might just have some Bubba for dinner!!! Now wouldn't that be something to write about in a book.

Bubba Hunt

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Howard, yeah, I know that someday it will break, and I already have some ugly scars from getting beat up by a griz in 1986.They put me back together, mostly.I did write about it in my book and there is a picture of it on my web site. You'll notice that the blood on my boots isn't from the bear, it's from a hole in my back.
I do brag a bit about my HT, and I do wear ear plugs due to it being a 30 hp Generac air-cooled, which I don't particularly like. I did put a pipe and another muffler on it, so it is fairly quiet now.
I did get a log caught in my track in a mud bog and it broke the track. I always carry extra parts, so I was only down for an hour. I'm going to get a rubber set.
If you want some serious bragging, scroll through these postings.It does strike me kind of funny that when I brag a little about this old Hydro-Traxx, it sure does stir things up.
I'm just an old Alaskan Swamp Rat who has been through the aatv wringer since the early 70's, and I do enjoy messing with my aatv brothers. Most of them don't pay much attention to me anymore.
Come on up and we can go get into some real aatv trouble. Ice fishing will start as soon as the lakes freeze up.When we get in 20 miles at -30, and the snow drifts and hidden logs beat us up, maybe you'll appreciate how tough this old HT actually is.
My book is at www.authorhouse.com, under "The Wilderness Trail", if you are interested in traplines,bear-moose hunting,back country living and that sort of thing.
I always enjoy hearing from you fellers.
George "Bubba" Hunt, www.shadowmountainoutdoors.com

dt5428

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Somebody woke the hibernating bear.LOL

Howard Hoover

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Bubba I've read your posts before it doesn't bother me that you brag I was just trying to be funny.

I have made a few posts on this site it's been a while though my computer was down & I've been working on my own ATV project so I haven't had much time to read or post anything. I've got my ATV project mocked up with a frame built out of 2x6 wood to see where I will have to put things etc. but I did get the frame rails made and I had the axle holes etc. cut on one of those water jet machines I have a Smithy Lathe Mill Drill but I never could have cut the holes so accurate and clean as that machine so it was worth it. I bought Rims & Tires they are 28x12x12 ITP Mudlites I need to buy my engine before I can go much farther. Howard

Bubba Hunt

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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Howard, I've given a lot of thought on how I would build a machine.Some how I would try to build a frame to hold the wheel motors that could be welded on each side to get the ground clearance up. Or maybe build the body inside of the wheels so taller tires could be used to get it up off of the ground. That's probably the easiest. It's people like you who will untimately build the best machine, not some engineer.My hat is off to you and I wish you all of the support. With all of the "knowledge" that is available on the web site, I know it will be done.Keep it up.
Bubba www.shadowmountainoutdoors.com

steve young
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Posted on Saturday, August 05, 2006 - 05:25 pm:

Well after 920 hours in my 2000 argo conquest I sold it last week and yesterday picked up my 2006 Mossy Oak Argo Avenger.So far I love the difference in steering ease with less power loss and more power to get up to speed easier.The main reason I wanted new was after that many hours of the whinning transmission spur gears and reverse idler gear it was time for some helical cuts WOW !what a difference, no transmission noise !The slack adjusters on the front chains were long awaited. The winch having the ability to move to the rear with 3 pins and plug is fantastic.I will keep you up to date on any problems or mods to my Avenger for anybody who wants to know.

Jack Ouellette
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Posted on Saturday, August 05, 2006 - 08:32 pm:

What type of transmission did you go with? I hear they have different types for different applications. What type of speed can you get out of it? what kind of water speed do you get?

steve young
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Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 07:41 am:

Jack I have the standard ratio because I didn't think I would run tracks alot. The speed seems about the same as my Conquest (though it was tweaked a little bit)My buddy followed me on his new 4 wheeler with a speedometer and I would go about 26mph and I think the Avenger is about the same maybe a little less ;as for water haven't found any yet but will let you know on this post.I always believed these machines are plenty fast enough for the serious areas they were designed to be run in.

Jack Ouellette
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Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 05:02 pm:

What would be the differances performance wise between the trans? Can you still run the tracks with the standard set up? What is the top speed of each? I dont much care how fast they go was just wondering what the differances were.

steve young
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Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 08:07 am:

The speed with the 3.3:1 would be a little slower as for the tracks you can have them on any machine.If you ever had supertracks on a machine you would feel alot of power loss on hills.The different gearing would be like making the high gear position lower but not as low as the low gear and so forth.If you plan on running tracks at least 50% of the time, the lower gear ratio (numuralically higher) is for you.As for water speed I took it down a creek yesterday and it seemed a tad bit faster than the Conquest though the tires are brand new; but it seemed to have a better stance on land and water hence:ARGO

STEVE
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 12:12 pm:

Just some nice pics of my travels last week-

philip w.cox
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 11:11 am:

Nice pictures Steve. I haven't been doing much riding lately because I've been doing a lot of travelling. Had Mr. Sills test fit an Avenger into my 10 foot trailer yesterday. Won,t go !!,I need to cut a hole at the front to let the winch hang out so that I can get the doors closed. Book says Avenger is 1" less than 10' but obviously that does not include the winch or guard. Do you have any thoughts about putting Frontier tires on the Avenger? Is your water speed getting better or worse as your tires wear in? W.Philip Cox

STEVE
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 12:11 pm:

Philip-I don't feel the water speed has changed as the tires wear I now have 175 hours on the machine and it's not even a year old!As for FRONTIER tires I think would be great on the machine the old runamuks were alot more fun in the snow than the rawhides and the new tires are similar tread to the runumuks,they would last longer, swim better,ride nicer,fit any track configuration or tire chains! the only downside I feel would be the slight ground clearence loss as the machine would bottom out a little more and on an 8-wheeler it has a longer bellypan and weight to get hung up a little easier.All this said though I am thinking of a set myself.

Rogersmith
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 01:06 pm:

You guys can contact Orr's All Season Argo in Indiana and talk to Gregg Orr. He put a set of frontier tires on a avenger and was pretty enthusiastic about them. Very fast in water, great ride, lost a 100 or more lbs of vehicle weight.. this was about a year ago when we talked. I bet it was a better mud tire too. Could have a better sidewall then the rawhide. Ground clearance loss.. the frontier tire is around 23.5, I havn't measured an avenger tire. The rawhide will wear longer if you skid the back wheels around while plowing on pavement, etc. In the dirt I don't think wear would be a big deal.

philip w.cox
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:37 pm:

HI Roger, I am not able to contact Orrs all season Argo via their web site. Have you got another e-mail for Greg Jr.?

Rogersmith
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 09:26 am:

All I saw was a phone #..

Lets give this to John Schwab since he has unlimited long distance calling, and see if the Orr's have an e mail you can use. Save you an international call. Maybe John can get an updated report about how Gregg feels about the tires and post it here.

Becky Orr
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 06:23 am:

Hi Phil, I was just checking in and saw our name mentioned. I have not had much time to do much reading. When you called and left a message a couple of days ago, you did not leave a phone number for a return call. You can call back at 574-867-8500 for Gregg. Or you can email to argoorr@skyenet.net. Becky

philip w.cox
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 12:27 pm:

Becky, Nice to hear from you. You and Greg(Sr.) are two of the people I have fond memories of when I think of 6 & 8 wheeling. I hope you are both well. I will call Greg tommorrow as today has gotten away from me. W. Philip Cox

1000 HOURS
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Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 01:32 pm:

Now had my AVENGER for 1 year and turned 250 hours I am very happy with the abilities of this amazing (This century designed) machine.

philip w.cox
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Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 01:15 pm:

Congratulations Steve, It's hard to beleive that you hold down a full time job and a marriage and great kids too. When did you ever get time to build your own trailer? I am mailing the pictures of our last ride today, honest. W, philip Cox\

popjpeg{22757,Larry,s tent}

philip w.cox
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Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 01:36 pm:

again-

1000 HOURS
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Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 01:39 pm:

Thanks for the praise PHILIP I can hardly wait to see the pics what a beautiful spot that was.

My last comment on the above post, I wanted to see if I could get a rise out of old FRED but he's not biting this board needs more traffic but it seems they are going to 6x6WORLD forum instead but all there dicussions are mostly MAX and the T-20 over and over again.
We need a new site for just ARGO's!

Dave Evans
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Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 03:36 pm:

Steve Lots of the regular guys are busy this time of the year, don't see them on any boards. I don't like the board either, so clickish.
Why not talk ARGO here. I have a 1999 6x6 Vanguard that we use all over the farm, we use it to mend fences and feed the Turkeys on the open range. Our Argo is called Big Red, wonder why? Red has been a good machine, needing only general upkeep. We this your first Argo? Dave

philip w.cox
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Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 11:24 pm:

Steve, I am told that your cousin bought a brand new YELLOW Frontier. If that is true,will you be able to get him to come to a ride? No Frontiers since we lost touch with Luch. I wanted to get him into the water once without his tracks. W.Philip Cox------Tell your cousin that I approve of his colour choice

1000 HOURS
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 08:16 am:

PHILIP- Yes this is true, and he probally will come on our rides. We ride together all the time on the atv club trails down here.Yellow is a great color!

Jeff McBrayer
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 08:36 am:

Phillip and 1000hours, as in my other post, I am coming home from the Army next week and ready to buy an new argo, where did you get yours and were they good dealers, or know of any good aew Argo dealers. Jeff McBrayer

philip w.cox
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 02:46 pm:

Jeff,Next week can,t come fast enough! It is so good to hear of our guys coming home. God's speed to you my friend. I did not answer your other post because I (and 1000 hours) are Canadians in Ontario. We have a great dealer named Don Sills. Your profile says New Mexico but if you live in Indiana, you may want to phone Dan Leonetti at Leo"s All Season Vehicles in Ohio. Dan has been a co-sponsor for a few years and in 2007 ran the Ledges Argo Off Road Event in Ohio by himself. Dan rides with the best of riders and knows our sport and our needs. He is a good guy and worth talking to. Some people think his name is LEO but that is a short form for Leonetti. Dan's number is 440 285-1730. Some body has already mentioned Fred Sain's Argo who are active on this board and obviously involved in the sport. Again, congratulations on coming home,and, Thank You. W.Phillip Cox