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Marc St-Cyr
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm: | 
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I was out for a leisurely tour in my 2001 Argo Response last night when I shut off the engine for a few minutes to enjoy the quiet outdoors. Ready to leave, I turned the key and nothing happened. I opened the hood to make sure the connections were Ok. They were. I banged the solonoid a couple of times. No luck. I was getting ready for a long walk home when I remembered seeing someone start a car by shorting the solonoid wires as a kid. To my great pleasure it started. Any ideas where to look for the source of the problem.
This is the second time this happens to me. It happened to me several months ago, but started after we rocked the argo a couple of times.
Any help would be appreciated.
Marc. |
Dan Harriger
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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Normally, and I repeat NORMALLY, if you have to short across the solonoid, it usually means that the solenoid has gone bad. Rocking the Argo in the past and getting it to start MAY mean that you have a loose connection. Check the tightness of the connections at the solenoid, the starter, and the battery. If all of those are good, then you probably need a new solenoid.
If you want to test the solenoid for conductivity, disconnect the wire leading to the starter and hook up a voltmeter with the positive to the starter connection on the solenoid and the negative to a good ground. Turn the key and see if you get close to 12 volts across to the voltmeter. If you don't, I'd replace the solenoid. It may be burnt (arced) at the internal connections and not sending enough "juice" to the starter. |
Steven A. Makitra (Slammy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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Gee Marc, Must be they don't make them like they used to. My 2001 MAX IV does the same thing! I havent checked to see if this is a warranty item but I'll guess not (electrical part). I've been pull starting mine. I guess I'll call to find out. Good luck with your new machine-Slammy |
Al
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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The Solenoid is like a 12VDC operated switch. When you turn the key, you connect a low amperage 12VDC current to the solenoid. The solenoid then connects the high amperage circuit to your starter. I assume you "shorted" the heavy wires, and you, in effect, bypassed the solenoid, and connected the high amperage circuit to the starter. If this is the case, I would say you need a new solenoid. If you "shorted" the smaller wires, then you bypassed the starter switch (key), and that is where the problem is. Solenoids use electromagnetic force to close the circuit, and can become borderline functional, and certainly sensitive to temperature. |
Attex Bob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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I have to agree exactly with Dan. Had a Chevy I had do it about every 20th start. Changed the solonoid; no more problem. One more thing to check is the voltage at the battery when it does its thing. Should be around 13.3 or so? If its lower than that and the solonoid contacts are just alittle burnt, it won't turn the engine over. |
Marc St-Cyr
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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Thank you very much for the speedy replies.
Yes, I was shorting the heavy wires.
I have also tried shorting the low current wires, and that also worked.
The smoking gun appears to be the starter switch. I'll test that tonight.
Marc. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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WETHER PLAYS HAVIC WITH STARTER SWITCHES,
YOURS MAY BE WORN OUT, |
Al
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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"Yes, I was shorting the heavy wires.
I have also tried shorting the low current wires, and that also worked. "
If shorting the smaller wires worked when the key would not work, it must be the key-switch. But if you tried this when the key would start it also, it doesn't tell you anything. The solenoid can work sporadically, and be susceptible to temperature variations. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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FWIT on the solenoids, I have found that if they get well soaked with water (and are not dried out in a warm dry room or over the summer), that they will not work when the temperature is below freezing (above freezing they work fine). I can't tell you why, but I had two and know of three more that had this problem. |
Dan Harriger
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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Fred, a solenoid is nothing but a small electromagnet. When you turn the starter switch, the current creates a magetic field in the solenoid and closes an internal spring-loaded switch (the spring keeps the switch in the normally open position). The internal switch is usually just a large metal contact and connects the 2 large wires (battery and starter) so that maximum current can flow to the starter with the least resistance. This is done so that you don't have to put the maximum current through the ignition/starter switch and have more potential for shorts, burns, fires in the starter switch. When the solenoid gets soaked with water and the water freezes, it freezes the internal switch in the open position and the electromagnet cannot create the "pull" required to break the ice and close the switch/circuit. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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Thanks for the reason Dan - maybe someone will check to see if their solenoid is frozen open before they throw it away and buy a new one. |
LAWPRESSMAN
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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I HAD A CUSTOMER BRING ME A MAX 2 THAT WOULDN'T START. WELL THE BATTERY WAS SHOT, SO I INSTALLED A NEW ONE, BUT NOW THE SOLENOID WOULD JUST CLICK. I JUMPED THE BATTERY LEAD WITH THE STARTER LEAD AND IT STARTED. SO I DRILLED OUT THE SOLENIOD RIVITS AND FOUND THAT THE GLUE THE WAS HOLDING THE COIL IN PLACE HAD RAN TO THE BOTTOM AND WAS STICKING TO THE CONTACTS. I WIRE BRUSHED IT OFF AND USED SCREWS TO PUT IT BACK TOGETHER. WORKS AS GOOD AS NEW. I THINK HEAT IN THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT MADE THE GLUE RUN TO THE BOTTOM.
IT LOOKS LIKE THIS COULD BE A PROBLEM WITH MOST MAX AATV'S THAT USE THIS BRAND OF SOLENOID. |
Attex Bob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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Now thats what I like to see. Not just replacing the solenoid and call it good; because that fixed the problem. You found out what made the solenoid fail. Thanks again for doing this so we all can learn. |
BrettBonner
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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Lawpressman -
I can verify your diagnosis. I have replaced 2 solenoids in my 2001 Max with the Briggs & Stratton original. On the third failure, I also drilled the rivits and found the glue, cleaned it out, and replaced with pop rivits. Now I have a spare.
However, I decided to get rid of the problem. I finally wised up and went to AutoZone and picked up some no-name brand. Works great and the problem solved.
My initial stupidity reminded me of the old GM commercial that suggest you replace the failed part with the identical GM Delco part. After doing that several times, I finally decided that the original GM parts really weren't that good because, after all, they kept failing. Using the same thought pattern, I finally decided to go with AutoZone.
Give me high quality parts from NAPA or AutoZone over most factory originals just about anyday. |
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