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HomeGrown Mav IV
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: | 
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Hell on six wheels
I bought a used t-20 form a Max dealer in Sioux Falls for $250. Once I got it I was shocked to find that it was a origional Borg Warner. It actually has the Borg Warner stamp on the housing. It also says patent applied for on the tranny housing. I would estimate it's age at approx 29 to 33 years old. After going through it everything inside looked great and was well within spec. So basically a seal and gasket kit later I have not only a functioning T-20 but also a piece of 6 wheeling history.
It has been running flawlessly in my home made MAX IV for the last 3 years.
Sometimes you do not have to spend $800.00 plus dollars if you take your time and look around. |
HELLONSIXWHEELS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Homegrown----the key words here are borg warner.
my attex has an old borg warner t-20,my newer max
has a "skid steer" t-20.i have had more trouble
with my newer max t-20 than you could imagine.all
i have done to the borg warner in the attex is change the fluid on a regular basis and it has been trouble free.
recreatives has changed a number of things internally in the t-20 over the years.the input
shafts are no longer supported in the center.the
drums now only have 3 small holes bored in them for fluid transfer,the old drums had 3 elongated
holes.this alone on the new "skid steer t-20" is
what i believe causes the tranny to overheat and
glaze/burn the bands.if the fluid cant get there fast enough then it cant do its intended job which
is to keep tranny cool and lubricated.there are more differences but i am not a tech that works for recreatives and i will not project myself as one. these are the more obvious changed that have
been made to these tranny in recent years.
maybe recreatives wasnt selling enough parts
for the t-20 so they decided to make some changes
and strum up some extra revenue from the public.
all i can say is borg warner still makes one of
the best transmissions in the world.why mess with
perfection?? |
ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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HEY HELLONSIXWHELER:
since t-20 DOESN'T contain any internal oil pump of bafle device to "circulate" oil across internal parts it's just a matter of splash action.....i don't think that the size of the drum holes will make a significative diference...it's how the heat transfer from internal component to the ambiance trhu atf fluid via t-20 housing so you better "double check" ammount of atf on t-20 and most important how to improve fresh/cold air thru t-20 housing......most of enclouser aatv machinery were designed with fresh air circulation devices, via air engine cooling system resource.......check for proper HOT AIR duct to guarante as much as possible the hot air extraction from machinery deck.....basically the "warmed air" from t-20 (produced by heat exchange from t-20 housing to surounded air)is supposed to be absorbed by the engine cooling intake and them drived out of machinery deck THRU HOT AIR DUCT....
also "uppgrade your t-20 cooling efficiency by add another quart of aft oil for a total of 1/2 gallon..that way the internal machinery will be inmerged on liquid and heat transfer rate will be 22 times faster than by air/splash...at least works for my max who by the way work always over 80 degrees of ambiance temp...... |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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also inprove the hot air duct with food warming device and you realy have somthing, heh heh |
rickstoys2000
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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My max4 is old,has the disc parking brake. I'm having trans problems,I think all my linkage is worn out. The bars that move the plungers don't look right.The RH stick does nothing.It turns both ways but very hard to turn right. Does anyone know where I can see pics of the linkage from the sticks to the trans.I think my brakes are out of adjustment. It has a 18hp 2cyl briggs and it seems real slow,,top speed 8-10mph. Also where can I get a blueprint of a T-20 trans? I'll be asking alot of questions about this so THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY HELP!!!
Rick |
rickstoys2000
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Can anyone tell me if the "bar"(C-channels) that are bolted to the plungers are supposed to be bent to the right? My shift levers are hooked to the inside of the "bars" and both are bent to the right. I put some pics of this on my webpage.If somebody would look at them and explain about the spring adjustment it would sure help me.
Thanks
Rick
see pics@ www.geocities.com/rickstoys2000/index.html--Yahoo photos--MY Photos |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Rick, your photo link doesn't seem to work. Isaac's post of Sept 27th above (and a couple of others also above) explains how the t-20 works and if you will block up your machine and check it as suggested, you will be able to know if it needs adjustment or not. You can get repair booklets from Richard, from RI or from any max dealer. The U channels angle out just a little being closer together at the top than at the bottom. Levers hook on the inside, springs hook on the outside. Make sure you have brake and neutral and when in gear that the power gets to the wheels (adjusting the distance of lateral travel is the easiest way to adjust the bands - make sure you have neutral after adjusting. |
rickstoys2000
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Sorry about the bad link. Try this www.photos.yahoo.com/rickstoys2000....The index.html will just get to my webpage then you have to click on Yahoo Photos then click on My Photos to see the pics. I've decided not to try to take this Max away from the house until I but a winch and a trailer. If something happens ,I have to be able to get it back home and right now I can't get it in the back of my truck. I think once I get it "close" to being correct, I'll pull the motor and go though the trans and start replacing all the 'weak' stuff, but first I want make sure that I'm not throwing money away.
Rick |
stevie
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Where can i buy a used t20? and whats a good price for one in good condition |
Sam keys
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Stevie:
Try richard as he has rebuilt trans in stock or parts
Sam Keys |
Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Got a question for Richard or Fred - How much horsepower can the T-20 handle, and how heavy a vehicle? I know this will sound odd, but on the way home from work yesterday I got thinking about parades, and started to wonder about building a full scale working model of a WWI tank for Veterans Day, etc. Using a T-20 would make steering much easier, but what are its reasonable operating limits? Anyone know? |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Sorry Douglas, I don't know how much horsepower or weight the T-20 can handle. If someone else doesn't answer your question, you can call RI and they will tell you. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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IN THE 70'S ATTEX DID HAVE AT LEAST 1 100HP ALCOHOL POWERD RACER,
AND WE KNOW MANY MACHINES ARE AS HEAVEY AS 1000 LBS WITHOUT EVEN THE DRIVER OR STANDERD AMOUNT OF BEER IN A COOLER ONBOARD,
THEY CAN PULL 1000LBS OR MORE AS WELL, SO I THINK YOUR COVERD, NOW WHAT IS IT YOU PLAN TO BUILD THIS THINGY OUT OF?
PLYWOOD??
IF YOU CHOUSE TO LEAVE THE SCALE SLIGHTLY AND GO FOR THE UNMISTAKEABLE SIMALARITY END OF YOUR FULL SIZE MODLE YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO MAKE USE OF AATV TRACKS AND STUFF LIKE THAT TO SAVE YOUR PROGECT FROM SINKING INTO YOUR BACK YARD AS A NEVER FINISHED DREEM, |
Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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David, I'd been thinking in terms of using heavy flanged roller chain with shoes riveted across them for the track. AATV track would have a number of advantages. Thanks for the thought! As for materials, I'd been thinking of steel channel frame and sheet aluminum skin. Plywood gets heavy! |
Attex Bob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Douglas: You will have to worry about breaking other things like belts and chains long before you will break your T-20. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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douglas, sounds great! do take lots of pic's
maybe you can release the imagination of others |
Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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David -
Thanks for the vote of confidence! It will be a while before I can make real progress on the day-dream, though. My wife & I are about to start building a house, and I will need to take a night school welding class before I can build the frame. My problem is I am a professional computer nerd, not a mechanic. |
James
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Hi, i am looking for a used or rebuilt Borg Warner T-20 skid steer tranny... If anyone has one and would like to sell it, please email me at: vista12@bellsouth.net
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MarkfuntothemaxHarding (Promoza)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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I know this mite have been asked befor but here it goes on a t-20 witch bolt do you use to adjust the rear band top or bottom at 1 time I knew it's been almost a year now since I have had it out I even put 6 new 26" tires on it + the 12" rims did that at xmas time so going to get it out this weekend and it is slipping in reverse the t20 was rebuilt last fall so now I need to adjust it some thanks so much |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Mark, if you will check the archives of this thread, you should get your answer. If not, email me. |
jojo
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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I have been through the archives but still no answer to my problem. My t20 is apart on the bench because one of the bottom plungers was pulled out too far and all the tranny fluid leaked out. It did get hot but did not sieze!!!
Now i need to know why the plunger was pulled out that far.. Does the linkage stop the throw of the plunger or is there a clip on the back of the plunger.. or last but now least, does the band stop the plunger?? How is the band attatched to the plunger and how do i know if i need new bands? |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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The band stops the clevis (plunger) from coming out, there is no clip. The band attaches to the anchor pin, wraps around the drum, and hooks to the clevis with a small roll pin. If the band is not broken, I would assume the wear on the band and drum caused it to extend out to far. By running out of fluid you probably need a full set of bands at the minimum. How long was it run dry? The drums will get chewed up in no time. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Well Jojo, If your tranny is apart, you should have your answer! Only two reasons I can think of that your plunger would come out far enough to leak. A broken band or terribly out of adjustment. The band hooks to the plunger with a roll pin and the other end is hooked over a mounted pin. The band is what holds the plunger in. You need new bands if a band is broken (replace the broken band) or if there is no friction material on the band.
If you haven't split your tranny in half yet, your best bet is to buy a repair booklet from Richard or RI. If you don't want to do that, take it easy and remember how the parts go. don't force anything. Have the tranny sitting on the right output sprocket (block it up so it stands there with the driven pulley up). Loosen the bolts holding both halves together and lift the left half off of the right half (set the left half on the driven pulley). The left half has a center plate that holds all its parts in (the right half doesn't. If your problem is on the right side you don't have to open the left half. put lots of Vaseline on and between the two o rings on the plunger.
When you get it back together, adjust the bands by turning the bolts in. Keep the channel bars straight up and down and adjust for 3/16" of movement of the brake bar away from the tranny case when both plungers are all the way out. |
jojo
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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It looks like the band had fallen off the bottom of the back of the drum allowing it to be pulled out. The bands are not broken and have some surface on them. I will try reassembly after work and see how it goes.. Thanx for help. Still alittle confused on the adjustment though.
jojo |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Jojo, Check to see if you can figure out why? The pin that anchors the bands should be such that the bands can't slip off. Has someone been in it before?
For the adjustment: Have both plungers out (use a big screw driver or pry bar). You should be able to move the brake bar in and out away from the tranny case 3/16 of an inch. When you get the tranny back in the machine and hooked up, make sure you have neutral in the middle of the lateral travel. |
jojo ( - 24.237.117.154)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Thanks, and it was rebuilt 2 years ago by the person i got it from. Im sure he did everything correct, he is very thorough. It seems like the max is a high maint. machine. Is this the case or once everything is fixed will be reliable for a bit?? I am using it on a moose hunt later in the month i hope..Thanx again for the timely info and help, I will probually need more in the near future.
jojo |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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jojo, You didn't say what year your machine is. I personally don't think max are high maintenance, but I take care of my machines (I expect a lot out of them, but do it all slowly and if something need attended to, I do it NOW). If a machine has been neglected and a lot of things are wrong, EVERYTHING that is wrong needs to be attended to. I personally have never had a major problem, but I have never put on over 300 hours on any one machine. I've had some machines come in for work that were in pretty tough shape, but once I figure out all the problems areas (causes for the problems) and fix them, they seem good to go for quite some time. I have yet to have a machine that I have gone through come back for additional work. Could be they do their own, but I would think they would call for parts. |
Bob Eells
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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JOJO,
The max is not a high maintainace machine per sey. It is very important that you perform routine maintaince on a scheduled basis. If you don't do it routinely these small problems build up and become BIG PROBLEMS... I like to look everything over from fluid levels and chain systems to doing a visual with the floor removed about every 10-15 hours of operation. I don't know what caused your tranny problem but I can tell you with confidence that the T20 is about as bullet proof as it can get with a machine of this nature. I have had several machines with this trany and have never had a failure and i used to run the old two stroke machines a lot harder than my 2000 max II. I won't presume to cast doubt on your assesment of the previous owners ability but perhaps he missed something or something wasn't right before he had a problem
. Like I said with annual fluid changes with average use (100-200) hours per year it is practally impossible to hurt this transmission. If you continue to have a problem after you repair my advice would be to call Richard Clark the guy who owns this website and talk to him. He is a easy fella to talk to and knows all these atv's inside and out. You might even consider having him rebuild your tranny...you won't be disappointed. But don't let these problems sour you on any 6 or 8 wheeler. They do quite well when everything is right. I guess I'll get off my soapbox for now.Hang in there!! |
jojo ( - 24.237.94.186)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Ok, thanx, i put the tranny back together as prescribed and all seemed well, the plungers were ok and the bands seemed good. Got the tranny back in the chains on and rotated the tires a bit to check it out.. after a few rotations i noticed when i pulled the stick the bottom plunger on the clutch side pulled out beyond the o-ring. This is a problem!!! When i was inspecting the parts i notice a pretty good groove in the drum on the side that is a problem. It has a groove maybe and 1/8" where the first band is. I figure the groove is driving the band off the end like a screw and allowing the extra legnth thus the plunger will pull out with stick travel applied. Does this sound legit?? It was perfect on the bench,, could not pull the plungers out too far. they seemed to stop. Now the task of unbolting everything and so on.. will have it apart tomorrow after work,, again.. If i need a drum where do i get one and how much can i expect to spend on on????? used? new?? i just want this done for the moose season.
thanks again
jojo |
lawprssman
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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jojo, sorry to tell you but you ran it dry too long. you need to replace the drums and the bands. the plunger should not pull out beyond the oring. the oring holds the trany oil in. i know max's with 10 years on the trany with on problems.
Contact 6x6 for parts. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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jojo, If when you get it apart and the band is loose again, check the length of the band anchor rod. The bands should not be able to slip off the anchor rod when everything is together and right. The groove is not good, but my guess is that it is from an earlier problem. You can get a drum from Richard Clark. If the band has friction material on it, I don't see how the groove could be made by that band. I don't think there is enough room for the band to slip off the side of the drum - for some reason your anchor rod is not effective. |
jojo ( - 24.237.118.26)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Ok, i will check the rod, but it seems ok. I think the band is slippin off the back bottom. It is the very first band and that is where the groove is, causing the band to drive itself off the drum... I talked to richard today and need to take it apart tonight and order parts if needed.
jojo |
hellon6wheels
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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hey doug in your question to hp to a t20 i know it can hold a 670 rotax with out a problem thats over 80hp but are you sure you want that mutch power in your machine i took mine out because it wouldnt climb a steep hill at all and it just wanted to spin and jump up and down but as far flat tracking and easy trail riden is was a blast also you best be ready for riping out your chain adjusting mounts out of the frame spliting jack shafts and ripping jack shafts out of the frame and breaking center axel bolts and spending the money for very good chain good ouch o yea you will open a big ole can of worms when you do this to a abs body machine 6x6 ben there done that |
Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Hellon6wheels -
Thanks for the insight. If I ever pull off what I have in mind, I won't have the bouncing and frame problems you descibe - I'll have a whole mess of other problems instead! |
jojo ( - 24.237.94.186)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Got lucky and found a tranny in a dudes shed locally. It was in pieces and a borg_warner. Missing one band...Used one of my bands and got it installed last night. I think i adjusted the bands correctly by pulling them out and had 3/16" between the case and the arm.?. It seemed to work nice but i have some clicking from the chains. Seems to be worse when braking? Also is the tensioner in the back around the drive chains supposes to be like a swing arm. Mine has a weight on it and swivels up and down and the sprockets mesh on the chain?? it hangs up on the way down. Thanks a million for the info and advice!! I sure it saved me a ton of money on labor.. and now i know the machine in and out.
jojo
One last thing, How much can an axle be bent before the is a bigger problem. 3 of mine were loose and one is bent a bit, maybe 1/8" wobble at the hub. They are solid axles with the protectors on the outside.
jojo |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Jojo, sounds like you have the bands adjusted right. I call it a brake bar (it is what moves the plungers in and out). Your adjuster sounds like a rudegoldberg device. The final drive adjusters are a sprocket on a bolt and slide up and down. The primary drive adjusters are a bolt adjusted by two nuts that pull a sprocket into the chain.
If you are on loose stuff, a bent axle is just an annoyance. It does put extra strain on your bearings and wears out tires faster. If you drive on hard stuff, it well wear out bearings and tires real fast. If it were me, I would fix them (a good welding shop can straighten then out with a press for you). Check your lock collars for tightness and being "not broken"; make sure your bearing flanges are uniformly tight at about 20 foot lbs torque (use a short handled wrench so you don't twist off a nut).
By protectors on the outside, do you mean bearing cages? |
jojo ( - 24.237.129.75)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Ok, thanks a bunch for the info. Will change the axle, i have a few extras. What do you consider loose stuff or hard stuff? Do you mean gravel and pavement?..
jojo |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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jojo, by loose stuff, I mean soft dirt, mud, sand, forage, etc. By hard stuff I mean hard pack dirt and gravel roads. I don't think skid steers should be used on pavement or concrete. |
jojo ( - 24.237.129.230)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Yeah ok got it. My drive chain tensioner in the very back was torn off the frame where the bolts go through to adjust the drive chains on the tranny. they pull the sprockets into the chain and apply pressure to the drive chain. the entire back was ripped off the chassis.. kinda a pain but is back together and everything seems smooth. Only question is how tight should the drive chains be? How hard should you pull the other sprockets into the chain? I noticed that they seem tight in the front where the pressure is applied and the slop is in on the back side.. I dont want to get them too tight and wear something out and not too loose. I noticed them ratcheting when they were too loose... I looked throught the archives and didnt find anything on this....???? Almost done.. thanks again
jojo |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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jojo, I'm sure how to adjust chains is on this site in several places, and it will be here too.
Have the machine off the ground so all wheels on a side can move freely (I block the machine up with all six wheels off the ground). Rotate the wheel until you find the tight spot (on each chain) and tighten to about 1/2 inch of deflection in the middle of the span. I slide the adjusters down snug on the final drive chains (tightening then just partially) and then rotate the wheels to make sure it is right; on the primary drive chains, I adjust the sprocket in checking constantly until I have the correct tension. Chains are better off just a little too loose than a little too tight (except in the case of new chain and then they can start out snug).
On lubrication, I use chain saw bar oil and put it on with a brush. Too much lubricant just makes a mess in the bottom of your tub. It is important to keep the chain troughs clean (especially void of tools, bolts, rocks, shell casings, etc, etc.) as if something gets picked up by a chain it can be expensive (if you have seat belts, keep the loose ends fastened as seat belts get sucked in too). Also, just dirt causes the chains to run in grit and they wear out way faster than they should. I'm not one for washing out the inside of the machine (or the outside for that matter) as it gets water on parts and in places that it makes problems (solenoids, choke cables and throttle cables do not like water). A good shop vac keeps my machines in order and if I have been out in the moisture, I spray WD-40 all over the chains, sprockets, inner parts of the axles and frame - when it is dry, I vacuum it out.
Where your chains were jumping teeth, you probably should check for worn or nicked teeth on the sprockets. Rough spots can be dressed up with a file, but if there are any broken teeth, the sprocket should be replaced.
Your machine appears to be a machine that was not tended to when it needed to be. When one lets things ride several things go wrong and as each system starts to fail it causes another system to fail. A machine can be just worn out, but that would take many thousand hours of use. If one will tend to the chains, sprockets and bearings with the same regularity that they do engine oil, these machines will last almost forever.
What year is your machine? |
jojo ( - 24.237.120.75)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Ok, thanx again. Im not sure the year, but it has a different engine in it. 16 hp tec. It has all the upgrades and seems to be in nice condition. Just a few maintenance problems. once it is all fixed it should be in good running order. I just keep finding broken stuff...I do believe that one thing led to another and poofta lots of broken parts. Now all is good after i change the axle and get the right tension on the chains.. I have a 2000lb. winch on it right now can you give me a idea of the right winch for it??
jojo |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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jojo, You can call RI with the serial number and they will tell you the year. It must be a 1989 or older as I think they started using the Briggs engine in 1990.
A 2000 pound winch ought to work fine. The Rule that RI used to use was 1400 lb and was more than enough. Remember on winches, the rating is figured with the cable all the way out on the first turn on the drum. |
maxindetroit
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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JOJO, dont forget to lube the bearings and all the other lube points, also you might want to try a product called chain wax, for your chains, you can get it at any motorcyle shop, it stays put, as it is waxy, and doesnt fly around and get everything spayed up with oil. As for the chains, I agree with Fred a little loose is better then a little tight. Good luck.
Jim |
jojo ( - 24.237.94.186)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Well thanks for everything, just got back from a 2 day trip with the max. Went 12 miles into the mountains to put up moose camp. With all the info from everyone i was able to do multiple repairs on the max. After almost 25 miles everything seems in order.. Just noticed that one stick moves further back than the other... almost 2 inches. not sure why. Only broke 2 shear bolts, unfortunatley one was in the back. Oh well,, i was told to use grade 8 bolts on the axle pins,, the axles are solid.. ??? is this ok or too much. ? thanks again.
jojo |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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jojo, You should not be breaking shear bolts and the factory uses (I think) 5 hardness (the harder the bolt, the more brittle). Check your bolt holes for slop and sharp edges. Make sure you have solid bolt in the hole (threads break real easy). If you aren't using factory issue bolts, you might need to buy a longer bolt and cut off the threads or use some washers to take up the space. Keeping your axle bolts tight helps to prevent hole elongation. If you have very much elongation, you can buy some washers from Richard to fix the holes or fill them with weld and redrill. Make sure that your chains are not too loose, putting all the strain on one bolt. Usually something is wrong if you break shear bolts.
On your tranny, it probably means that one band is worn more than the other. Check your adjustment again for movement of the brake bars Keeping them as straight up and down as you can. If it is when pulling back, it is your reverse drive and forward brake band. If the bands are adjusted correctly, you can change the linkage right at the lateral (but, if it was equal and now is not, it is a band). |
Bob Eells
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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JoJo,
I agree with Fred. You would think that a grade 8 bolt would be stronger. It is but not when used in this type of application. Like Fred said they are harder and are therefore more brittle. Bolts are made for expansion or compression strength not necessarily lateral loading. A grade 5 bolt works because it tends to "give" in a lateral stress position and therefore is more prone to bending. Grade 8 does not accept any bending before it shears off. Another rule of thumb is not to excede the rockwell number of one type of steel over another. It is better too keep the hardness or rockwell of two metals as similar as possible. Solid axles are very close to grade 5 bolts in harness. If axles were heat treated to grade 8 hardness we would be breaking a lot of axles. I also agree with Fred about the importance of using a "shouldered" bolt and not letting any threads get in contact with the axle as the treads tend to act as a small saw blade and will hog out the axle hole. I also will snug these bolts when I lube and check chain tensions.You don't have "reef" down on these bolts for tightness either because when you tighten axle bolts too much you stretch them and they are more prone to breaking them. I use a nylock nut and only tighten to 25 FT.LBS of tork. Hope this information is of help and good luck. Sounds like you are getting a handle on your maintaince problems. Remember that these machines are very dependable but because a lot of "machinery" is used one one weak "link" will lead too multiple failures if not caught soon enough. And it isn't much fun walking out of the BOONIES when something breaks. |
jojo
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Well after another trip into the woods i have decided the max is not for me!! Broke a main drive chain off the tranny, 2 hr. fix...was able to fix it because i had extra chain and links. Not to far after that busted the shear bolt under the clutch,, fun fun. 30 min fix. made it moose camp. a 2 hr go is now 4.5, and allot of work. The next morning a half hour from camp, the right front axle came out, loose bolts were the cause. 2 hr. fix and off i go. about a half mile from there the wheel busted the hub right off the axle. Now im 5 wheeler again. This is turning into allot of fun. About the only extra part i didnt bring was an axle. Never considered it. the entire time and on all the trips my buddies with 4 wheelers and polaris 6 wheelers are helping me work on this machine asking how long i was going to do this. ? . After thinking about how many man hours in preperation and work on the max, and how much time it takes away from everthing else I decided i am done with it. And i have decided that people who own these types of machines are in denial about technology. Why keep beating yourself up over the 6x6 just to do it? Must be a cult thingy.
What i would like to do though is thank everyone on this board that helped me work on the max time after time. I found all the info right on the money. Thanks again, and im on the way to the polaris shop..
jojo |
Big Bob Hall
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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JOE
Well that is what you get, take a junk machine, rig it to the hill, then call it junk when it breaks again. Sounds like hillbillys to me.
I guess it then machine is so bad he will sell to one of us, for next to nothing , since the machine is junk. I bid 2$
Any more bids??
Big Bob Hall |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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jojo, your drive system is out of wack. You do not break chains and axle bolts when the system is working correctly (and yes, bolts and lock collars need to be tight). All of the problems you speak of are adjustments or new parts. A fourteen year old (or older) machine that has not been maintained is not a good spokesman for the brand. Try using a fourteen old Polaris and tell us how it works (oh yeah, there aren't very many).
You are free to use a quad (many do when they have the terrain that will allow for one) but you are not being fair when you judge the brand by a many years out of production, poorly maintained, machine. Current production machines (and older machines that are kept in factory specs) are not maintenance intensive. I personally have never had a major failure and I'd guess I have well over 1000 hours of use; a lot of it in terrain that will not tolerate any quad for very long.
Good luck with your Polaris, but please do whomever buys your machine a favor and tell them that the drive system needs to be put in order by someone who knows how to align chains and sprockets and that will do the whole job right (at this point in time, it very well could take new everything). |
Mike Longest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Jojo
Better call Richard as he buys machines all the time
Mike Longest |
funtothemax
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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JOJO like with anything it needs to be worked on due to it's age I have a 1975 RIM the brother to a MaxIV we are talking 29 years old yes it has broken axle bolts and I have replaced a axel put new outer bearings in but you must fix the problem that are causing them to break so take it from me and many others things have to be checked time to time to keep them from messing up even a human body trust me I know that for a fact. I didn't check mine as often as I should have it gave me a stroke @ 35 years old what a wake up call do you know the history behind your machine ???? |
mr. tinker
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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have you ever heard the saying "you could tear up a steel ball with a rubber mallet"? well you probaly do not have much driving experience with a 6 wheel machine. i have a mid 70's max and it was pretty much not maintained when i got it.took me months to get it the best it could be. i learned to drive it gradually. it will not do the things a modern max will do as far as ability to withstand abuse. it still amazes me how it can go over things without even struggling.i know now what things that i do that cause the most wear and tear. i have two atv's and they do things the max cant and vice versa.i have only broke one axle bolt and broke one chain in 4 years. i solved the axle problem by putting two bolts per axle.keep the chains adjusted and lubricated. the chain broke on me because i was driving on blacktop and it was stretched to max wear limit.i think you would be better off with a new atv or max and try to keep up on the simple maintenence. also know the limitations of your machine. |
jeff moore
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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a little help please?? :-) i just bought a hustler. i have some trans. trouble. it's a skid-steer. right lever travels too far, and barely drives the sprocket. plunger comes out of bottom of case, on rightside, past o-ring. it looks like it has gear oil in it. i purchased the manual from richard. soooo...uhhh... i'm still a little fuzzy on the adjuster bolts in the channels.even after reading the book, and some messages pertaining to jojo's machine. email:rainbowtrout@gci.net. kinda sounds like band worn or slipping. any tips, before i open it up, would be greatly appreciated. thank you
jeff
970-231-0806 |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Jeff, It might be just adjustment if the right lateral stops both directions. There is suppose to be Automatic Transmission Fluid in the tranny (it is pink). If it is the wrong fluid, you will probably have to take the tranny apart, clean everything up and start over with ATF. If the fluid is right, you can try adjusting first and if that doesn't fix it,then tear it down.
Assuming the fluid is right, to adjust: Each plunger has a bolt screwed into it (a metal keeper the depth of the bolt head holds the bolt in place). If your laterals are spring loaded, take the springs off, (most Huistlers don't have springs). Move the plunger so the bolt head comes out of the keeper and turn it in by hand (they should turn easily and if they don't, they need to be taken out and the threads cleaned up and dressed so they do turn easily). Turn the bolts in to reduce the lateral travel, starting with the bottom bolt and trying to keep the channel (brake lever) straight up and down. Adjust (with the top and the bottom plungers both out) until you have 3/16 of an inch movement between the brake lever and the tranny case. When you are done, make sure you have a neutral with the laterals in the middle of their travel (If you don't have a tranny neutral, the bands are too tight.
If you have to open it up, block it up on the output shaft on the right side (with the driven pulley up). Lift the left half up off the right half as it has a center plate in it that keeps everything in place. The right half is open and everything will fall out if you lift it of.
Good luck in your endeavor. |
stevenivaud (66.103.164.5)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 03:34 pm: |
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97 maxIV..help i'm stuck in forward..cannot get it out of gear..no neutel or reverse...was working fine ..parked it in heated garage in forward now cant get it out..runs fine turns great ..just can't get it out of gear...HELP |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_Price) (69.27.205.28)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 07:41 pm: |
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It is possible for a T-20, on rare occations, to get stuck in gear. I assume your shifter will not move and your linkage is not broken. Drive the vehicle around for a while and pull on the shifter every few minutes. With any luck it will come out of gear and be back to normal again. |
ralph cummings
New member
Username: Ralph_cummings
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.195
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 06:49 pm: |
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i have a 2001 maxIV it was pulling hard to the right but now it drives straight but have no control no that side in reverse i am looking for any info and schamatics for the T-20 trans if anyone can help my email is hhoundman1973@aol.com thanks alot |
Richard Clark
Moderator
Username: Richard
Post Number: 6
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 12.202.144.12
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 07:46 pm: |
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Ralph
I am Richard Clark owner of this ROUTE6x6 and Richard'S Relics ATV parts site
We have the T-20 manuals available free on ROUTE6x6.com
I also stock all T-20 parts at deep discount prices, we also
can repair your trans if you desire,
We stock tons of T-20 parts along with most MAX parts
--
See my ATV parts website (listed below) for more ATV parts.
I have the world's largest supply of new, used and reproduction
AATV parts. We have most parts for most machines. Please call
on phone for details.
Terms:
We accept Visa. Mastercard and Discover Credit Cards, along with Money Orders
For your protection we only accept USA credit cards by telephone authorization.
--
Thanks,
Richard Clark
_________________________________________________
ROUTE6x6
4846 Quarry Rd
New Albany IN 47150
812-944-1643 9am- 6pm Eastern Time Monday-Friday only
Please NOTE EXTENDED HOURS
PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE ADDRESS IS FOR MAIL USE ONLY,
I keep no machines or parts at the above address. Also there
are no business hours at the above address.
Visit my ATV parts website at:
http://members.aye.net/~rclark/Parts.html
Visit my ROUTE6x6 website at: http://www.route6x6.com/ |
Philip Croff
Junior Member
Username: F14crazy
Post Number: 13
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 24.56.201.68
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 10:25 am: |
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I'm going to be running Mobil 1 ATF in my Amphicat tranny. I've heard problems about AATV transmissions not dealing with heat well. It's expensive but mine takes slightly less than a quart anyway.
Any good synthetic ATF would be much better for any transmission over conventional. Previous owners (though probably has been in pieces for the past 10 years) didn't change the fluid much and it has some grit in it. I'm changing it like every time I run it to clean it out (with conventional ATF). Will soon switch to Mobil 1 when I'm satisfied with the fluid's condition. |
Ray Kohls
Advanced Member
Username: Bw6
Post Number: 101
Registered: 02-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 07:01 pm: |
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Didn't know where to post this question, but any of you AATV history buffs know if any manufacturer ever built a front engine model with a T-20 transmission?
If you please either post a pic or direct me to it.
Thanks |
Dave Evans
Intermediate Member
Username: Dozer
Post Number: 83
Registered: 01-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 02:36 pm: |
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Ray
A T-20 can be put is front or rear, run either way Forward for Forward or for reverse. |
Ray Kohls
Advanced Member
Username: Bw6
Post Number: 102
Registered: 02-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 08:54 am: |
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Thanks I was wondering about that, what about the laterals would they operate backwards? |
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