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Justin
New member
Username: Getwilde
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 07:46 pm: | 
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I'm a new owner of a old '93 Max IV, with Briggs Vanguard 18hp engine. We just got it back from the shop, and took it for a ride yesterday afternoon. (It ran great except that it wouldn't idle after having run near full-throttle. If I gave it a little gas, and let it 'calm down' for 15-30 secs, then it would idle again okay. The mechanic suggested it might be a bad spring in the clutch? I noticed the new belt he put on looks wider than the old one. Could either of these be related?)
Anyway, this morning it was 10 F degrees, and we couldn't get it started. We hope to use it daily to get to and from the house/cabin. I suspect the cold weather is affecting either the battery, or the engine, or both. Would an engine block heater and/or a battery heater resolves our starting problem? Has anyone here put such heaters on their 6x6 (adhesive, magnetic, dipstick, or otherwise)? Good idea? If magnetic or adhesive, where's the best place to attach it on the engine?
Thanks in advance.
- getwilde (In Utah's Rocky Mtns) |
Dennis F. Saskowski
Advanced Member
Username: Sasko
Post Number: 158
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 08:18 pm: |
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Justin, heaters would be e temporary fix for a poor battery or too heavy of oil or carburator icing which a block heater wouldn't help anyway.My max is stored in a barn or outdoors for the week ends on adventures in 0 degree weather. It starts,same for my snoblower.Your carb was sucking the cold air at high speed and iced, you stopped the fan wasn't pushing in cold air as fast,carb thawed and your idle returned to normal.Fresh gas bought in the season it is used is a big factor. |
Justin
New member
Username: Getwilde
Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2008 - 12:25 am: |
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Thanks for the reply Dennis.
I should have mentioned in my first post that the battery is new. I have it on a recharger right now... and it did show that it was discharged. I don't know if that's just a result of it being so cold outside -- or if I have a bad battery or alternator.
Gas is also fresh. I put Heet additive in as well (1/4 of a bottle to 5 gals of gas). I'm not sure what type of oil the mechanic put in, but it is new. I'll give him a call in the morning. (The shop is 2 hours away so it's quite the effort to take it back there.)
Unfortunately I don't have a garage/barn/shed. I was hoping an engine block heater would be a nice alternative, perhaps with a tarp/blanket over the engine to help retain the heat.
I've heard about carb icing before. I'd forgotten, but that would definitely explain why it won't idle well right after running at high speeds. (Good thinking!) So is there a solution for that? I heard somewhere that you can reroute the air intake with extra tubing around the engine block or exhaust system... which will help heat up the air before it goes into the carb.
Finally, I read that getting hotter sparkplugs for winter usage improves the ability to cold start. If that's true, and a good idea, what spark plug should I get for a B&S Vanguard 18hp?
Just trying to figure out how to get this thing running reliably in cold weather... |
Dennis F. Saskowski
Advanced Member
Username: Sasko
Post Number: 159
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2008 - 08:15 am: |
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Justin ,if your air cleaner draws air from the fan shroud just block it.Check your Briggs dealer might have kit to direct hot air to the air cleaner. After you charge batt. start motor with volt gauge on it,should read 13 to 13 1/2 volts turn lights on, needle should bounce and go right back.Hotter plugs help,ck. manual on that motor sometimes they give a # for hotter plugs. |
Justin
New member
Username: Getwilde
Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 02:44 pm: |
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Just thought I'd add an update on my situation. Dennis, thank you for your comments about voltage. It led me to do further research. These sites -- while written for cars -- were helpful towards diagnosing the problem:
http://www.econofix.com/battery.html
http://www.econofix.com/starters.html
http://www.econofix.com/alt.html
After sanding/cleaning battery terminals, checking wire connections, testing voltage at several points, and numerous other things, I concluded that the problem lie in the alternator not charging my battery. Fearing an expensive repair, i was thrilled to discover an inline fusebox with rusty connectors and fuse. After replacing both, I tested again. The alternator was correctly charging the battery again. Costly repair avoided! I also found that the mechanic hadn't gapped my spark plugs (they were too wide -- not the 0.030" recommended by B&S). So I fixed that.
My theory: 1) Cold starts were drawing excessive-but-expected amperage from my battery. 2) Poorly-gapped spark plugs, needing extra voltage to clear the gap, drained my battery further during rides. 3) A bad fuse/box meant the battery never had a chance to recharge.
With those things fixed, my machine is starting up well even in sub-freezing temperature. I didn't need an engine block heater, after all. 
One last question: The rusted fuse, inline on the white wire just beyond the regulator rectifier (ie engine > rectifier > fusebox) was labeled 30amp, ??? volt (couldn't read voltage rating). I noticed the plastic near one of the connection points on the old fuse box was melted. I'm not sure if overheating was due to the rust and a poor (small) connection point, or because the previous owner put the wrong fuse in -- 30amp being too high to allow the fuse to do its job (and burn out). So I put in a 20amp fuse instead, and guessed at 32volts. But does anyone know what volt and amp ratings that fuse should really be? |
Dennis F. Saskowski
Advanced Member
Username: Sasko
Post Number: 167
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 03:35 pm: |
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Justin,30 amp sounds right my max only has 3 fuses , a 30amp for the entire machine,a 5amp for the thottle heater and a 10amp for the 12volt acc. outlet. Yeah if the area of electrical connections were rusted that area runs hot and would melt the insulator,its like trying to run a high amp load thru a too small of a wire. |
Justin
New member
Username: Getwilde
Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 04:58 pm: |
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Okay, I'll replace that 20amp fuse with a 30 amp. Speaking of "too small a wire"... the replacement fuse box that I bought uses 10gauge(!) stranded wire (aluminum IIRC). But the white wire coming from the regulator rectifier, which appears to be original, is *much* thinner: 14gauge stranded copper. This thin wire was another reason that I suspected that the 30amp fuse I replaced was rated too high. But, I guess not.
It's possible the fuse-box manufacturer uses oversized wire in case the fuse-box is spliced into a very long run of wire (higher resistance (ohms)).
Oh well. Probably not worth worrying about. |
Justin
New member
Username: Getwilde
Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 04:59 pm: |
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Okay, I'll replace that 20amp fuse with a 30 amp. Speaking of "too small a wire"... the replacement fuse box that I bought uses 10gauge(!) stranded wire (aluminum IIRC). But the white wire coming from the regulator rectifier, which appears to be original, is *much* thinner: 14gauge stranded copper. This thin wire was another reason that I suspected that the 30amp fuse I replaced was rated too high. But, I guess not.
It's possible the fuse-box manufacturer uses oversized wire in case the fuse-box is spliced into a very long run of wire (higher resistance (ohms)), which isn't the case here. Thus the wire gauge mismatch.
Oh well. Probably not worth worrying about. |
Justin
New member
Username: Getwilde
Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 05:01 pm: |
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Sorry for the double-post. I don't see a way to remove it.  |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 358
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 07:08 pm: |
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I think the inline fuse off the briggs rectifier is supposed to be a 25. The fuse holder corrodes from moisture, developes resistance, and gets hot. I fixed mine on a weekend ride and it still has a 30 in it. I've heard a 25 will protect the charging system from itself. |
Brad Dunn
New member
Username: Lazerman
Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 06:51 pm: |
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Do you guys think a electric heater is necessary as my Tucker Snowcat has warm air heat drawn off the engine, even in the Colorado mountains, we can not leave it on high, just asking? Brad |
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