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Joe J
New member
Username: Jjconst07
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 10:44 pm: | 
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Hello, I just purchased a 1998 Argo Bigfoot, it has the air cooled 18hp motor, is there any aftermarket item or a way to somehow channel the heat from the motor up into the cab for winter use ? |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 405
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 02:06 pm: |
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Joe- Do you have a top on? I have ridden in my friend's bigfoot in the winter and it was pretty nice. Took our gloves off and opened our coats. Do you shut the brake fan off when you are idiling? I just installed a roof on my avenger, not sure how that's gonna work. |
Joe J
New member
Username: Jjconst07
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 10:17 pm: |
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I havnt bought the top yet, and since I just bought it I am unfamiliar with the whole break fan thing, I was just wondering if a person can heat them, since here in MN, heat is really nice : ) plus I dont know if the windshield will get all fogged up without heat. |
Dennis F. Saskowski
Advanced Member
Username: Sasko
Post Number: 139
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 08:26 am: |
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Joe, I have a max 4 with a winshield and enclosed cab. Don't use the defroster much but have one of those 12 volt heater/window defrosters works good and adds some heat to inside but like I said didn't have to use it much.Believe it or not even with the motor in the back cab gets heated some how from engine,actually the rear seat infront of the motor was dubbed the hot seat.I'm sure with your motor in front some heat will be pushed back,try one of those window defrosters and see what you would need next season. I have the same scenario as Philip jacket open gloves off. |
Andre Leclerc
New member
Username: Andre
Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 12:12 pm: |
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If your interested.On my Conquest I used a rear defroster fan off of a 1972 Chrysler Newport and installed it on the muffler guard by drilling a hole in it.,then routeing the exhaust of the fan through the dash on the left side using a 1.5 inch pvc 90 degree elbow.This directs the heated air of the side of the muffler shroud down to my feet.This works if you have no roof,only a windshield for saftey reasons.With the total enclosure,I have the factory heater on the right side which uses the antifreeze heat exchanger and also defrosts the windshield using fresh air(again for saftey reasons)Regards Andre |
Joe J
New member
Username: Jjconst07
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 04:18 pm: |
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Thank you, all of this is great info, and I appreciate it. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 408
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 11:35 pm: |
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It was a beautiful day but the avenger was warm with one window open. |
Brad Morcom
Junior Member
Username: Evil1
Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 12:28 am: |
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I just put a cab and windshield on my Avenger a few weeks ago. Gets pretty warm in the cab (no factory heater) even when it was about 10 deg. F. The noise in the cab is double what it was without a cab. I put sound deadening material in the firewall and it made a big difference. I am now making a heater out of 3/4" copper tubing wrapped around the exhaust and ducted into the cab. I chose this route as it takes a long time to get the water temp. up to operating temp on the kohler engine. This way I will have heat in a minute or two. It should be safe as the tubing is isolated from the exhaust and the blower pushes the air through all of the tubing (positve pressure) so it should'nt pull in any air from the engine compartment even if it developed a hole. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 409
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 10:26 pm: |
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Brad,-- I agree that it takes a long time to get the water up to temp. on the Kohler engine. Last summer I never got it over 170*. You would think Kohler would use a 192* thermostat? I think your copper tubing should work- sounds similar to the old VW system. Which blower is pushing the air through the tubing? About the noise, yes indeed but much Quieter than previous machines with straight cut tranny gears. What type of insulation did you use? W. Philip Cox |
Brad Morcom
Junior Member
Username: Evil1
Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 11:51 am: |
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I used a small bilge blower I got for $20. It only draws 4 amps and works great. The insulation was duramat. It works pretty good and its easy to cut and install. It has adhesive on one side, just peel and stick. I still plan on doing more to reduce the interior noise. Would be great to get it quiet enough so I could install a stereo. My time is very limited as I am building a house. Once I am living in the house my first project will be a roll cage (Aluminum). Can wait to be able to play again. |
Brad Morcom
Junior Member
Username: Evil1
Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 12:00 pm: |
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Philip, About the Kohler. When I got my new avenger home it would not warm up. I ordered a new thermostat and put it in right away. It still takes quite a while to get up to 170*. Cold blooded too, you have to warm it up for 5-10 minutes. But it has been good otherwise. When the warranty is up it is definitely going to be modified as I want more power. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 412
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 05:08 pm: |
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Brad- thanks for all the info, When time allows I will be very interested to hear what you do to gain power. My avenger is the efi model, is yours? |
Brad Dunn
New member
Username: Lazerman
Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 08:24 pm: |
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The heater sounds like a great idea, I have a MAX IV with the 27Kaw water cooled engine, I will try the heater route too. School buses have a heater in rear with fan and everything.
Brad Dunn |
Lance Sammer
Junior Member
Username: Cragen
Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-1997
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 09:14 pm: |
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Brad A company selling HOT ROD parts, will have a small heater that would be great in a ATV Lance Sammer |
Jeff McBrayer
Member
Username: Beemer
Post Number: 39
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:15 pm: |
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Try http://www.jegs.com/
Jeff |
Dennis F. Saskowski
Advanced Member
Username: Sasko
Post Number: 144
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 07:44 am: |
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Guys, just remeber if your machines are taking a long time to warm up it will be even longer when you add more coolant and a heater core that will act like a radiator cooling things down until things warm up over a longer period of time,yeah a hotter thermostat would be required. Might even have to orifice down the return line from the heater core to slow the return from it.Don't know about the liquid cooled air cleaners but if you could fab something to heat the air going to the air cleaner that would have to be a plus.Something like the cars from the 70's. Have to shut off my forced cold air inlets in my air cleaner in the winter or my 25hp will stall and take forever to warm up,carb may even ice. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 414
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 03:43 pm: |
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Dennis-I hope that the guys with liquid cooled motors and talking about auxilary heaters are reading your post. You are absolutely right and if you think about it, you couldn't be wrong.
Brad Morcom knows what you know and is experimenting with a hot air heater that draws it's heat off of the exhaust manifold (like the old VW Beatles)--great idea and almost instant heat IF he can get it to work.
I don't know why the avengers run such cold thermostats, but unless there are hotter ones available?? adding the Argo option liquid heater or making your own is a waste of effort. |
Dennis F. Saskowski
Advanced Member
Username: Sasko
Post Number: 145
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 04:06 pm: |
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Well I guess we just throw ideas around here so some of the stumbling stones are removed.I'd go with brad's idea. |
Ray Kohls
Intermediate Member
Username: Bw6
Post Number: 97
Registered: 02-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 07:53 pm: |
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I thought I would join the discussion even though I have nothing to heat. In my flying days our planes had cabin heat supplied by an "air to air" heat exchanger that used the muffer, with a simple cable operated heat box valve. Check out the link I'm sure something that they offer could easily be retro-fitted. Check out the "Ran Aircraft Cabin Heater" $75.00. You will need a small fan to substitute for the aircraft ram air. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/heaters.html |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 415
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 08:38 pm: |
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Ray---"nothing to heat"?? You told us that you sold the custom Bushwacker, but you said that you bought an older Maxii and an Argo to experiment with. Sold em?? I beleive that was Cam Shiel's Frontier splashing around with your proto-type water paddles. Am I right?
P.S. checked out the aircraft supplies site, lots of ideas to think about!
Does anybody have any ideas why the Avenger engines run so cool? Ray do you think that its possible that these liquid Kohlers want to run at 170* F? |
Ray Kohls
Intermediate Member
Username: Bw6
Post Number: 98
Registered: 02-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 10:06 pm: |
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Hi Philip, yes that was and still is Cam's Frontier, and yes I do have a Max II that will make it's debut in the spring. But technically I still don't have anything to heat. I will be heading down to South Padre Tx, in a little while hopefully I won't need any heat there, but will think of you guys romping in the snow.
Philip it looks like those EFI engines have a 195 deg. thermostat, that starts to open at 175 deg. and is fully open at 195 deg. My guess is during the winter months the cooling system is so effective that the coolant temperature never gets much above 175 deg. |
Joe J
New member
Username: Jjconst07
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 10:30 pm: |
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I havnt been here in a couple days with all the holiday things going on, I cant believe all the good ideas about cab heating my argo, I really like the idea of Brads,and I think the aircraft sight has some promising things as well. Has anybody installed a stealth muffler system on a argo? if so, how much quieter is it? or is the noise inside the cab all engine noise? |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 417
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 01:47 pm: |
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Thanks Ray,that's helpful. Enjoy Texas,hope to see some new inventions when you come back.
Joe J- It makes a big difference which Argo you have, The older ones had straight cut tranny gears that produced most of the noise. What Argo do you have?--You could put a bit more info in your profile if you wanted to.-- I should talk,mine is a bit out of date. |
Dave Evans
Intermediate Member
Username: Dozer
Post Number: 74
Registered: 01-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 02:25 pm: |
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Joe, Phillip is more than right the ARGO's with trans gear whine are so bad, a quieter muffler will do little Dave Evans |
Brad Morcom
Junior Member
Username: Evil1
Post Number: 16
Registered: 02-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 08:47 pm: |
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The heat exchanger off of the exhaust I built for my avenger works great and I am very happy with it. It only takes a few minutes to make heat. As I said my Kohler (not EFI) takes along time to get up to temp even with a new thermostate. That was my primary reason for not using a heater using engine coolant. I used 9 pieces of 1/2" copper tubing clamped to the muffler. It all fits under the factory muffler heat shield. I used 3" aluminum flexible vent tubing to tie it all in. works great!! Hope this helps. |
Brian in FABULOUS Utah
Member
Username: Brianprovo
Post Number: 39
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 09:57 am: |
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Would love to see pictures. Sounds easy enough maybe even I could do it?!?!? Is it on all the time or are there controls to adjust/turn off/on? Sometimes it gets hot in there even without a heater and you're opening the windows. |
Brad Morcom
Junior Member
Username: Evil1
Post Number: 19
Registered: 02-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 10:11 pm: |
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Brian. It has a 3" Bilge blower, single speed. So yes you can shut off the blower. I have never posted a picture before. Give me a few days. It's about time I learned and it would be neat.. |
Brian in FABULOUS Utah
Member
Username: Brianprovo
Post Number: 41
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 10:51 am: |
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Brad, I'll anxiously await the pictures! This may be a winter project for me.
We're heading up to the cabin on the 27th (elevation 7500) for a few days and am looking forward to getting the Argo out and about! |
Shane Smith
New member
Username: Shane821
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 12:58 am: |
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Whats the deal with the blower on the brakes? |
Erich Kelter
Intermediate Member
Username: Fisherman
Post Number: 68
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 09:48 pm: |
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Keeps the disc brakes coool. |
Brad Morcom
Member
Username: Evil1
Post Number: 25
Registered: 02-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 09:12 am: |
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My pictures are too large to up-load, trying to figure out how to resize them so I can post. I have several hours using the heater now and I'm real happy with it, works great |
Argohunter
Intermediate Member
Username: Argohunter
Post Number: 86
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 01:17 pm: |
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Brad, if you are using Windows, open up the picture that you want to include in your post in Microsoft Photo Editor. Once in the editor, click on Image and then click on Resize. When the resize window opens, look at the Units box and make sure that it shows the units as Pixels and not CM or Inches. If it does shows either CM or inches, change the units to show Pixels. Then using your mouse, click on either the Width box or Height box and change the dimensions to read less than 100 x 100 pixels. Once you see how it works, it's easy. Then save your re-sized image. Using the Save As button, type in the new name of your image and save it. This will keep the original picture under the old name and in it's original size. Go back to the Upload Attachment button under the posting message box in this forum and click on it. A new box will open. From there, browse through uour picture files until you find your new re-sized picture and click on it. This will add the picture to your post. Click on the Preview/Post Message button as normal when adding a post and you should see the picture in your post. Then add the post if you are satisfied with the way it looks.
There are other ways to re-size pictures depending on your computer software and other picture editing programs that people use in their computers. I use this way because it's easy for me and handy.
If for some reason, you can't get it to work for you, PM me and send me the image you want posted. I would be happy to post it for you but it would show up under my name and not yours.
I would like to see your Avenger with the tracks.  |
Brad Morcom
Member
Username: Evil1
Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 07:19 am: |
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Argohunter. Thanks for the help I will give it a try. I will also take a few pictures of it with the tracks and post them. I would also like to take some video of it in deep snow and post that. Thanks again. |
Brad Morcom
Member
Username: Evil1
Post Number: 27
Registered: 02-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 07:54 am: |
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Argohunter
Intermediate Member
Username: Argohunter
Post Number: 87
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007 - 02:39 am: |
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You are entirely welcome. Glad you got the picture thing going. |
Brad Morcom
Member
Username: Evil1
Post Number: 28
Registered: 02-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007 - 08:22 am: |
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WWWOOOOOOOOOhhoooooo!!!!!!!!!This is going to be fun. Thanks again!!!! |
Christopher W. Jones
New member
Username: Cwjones
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007 - 09:10 pm: |
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I'd love to see a bit more detailed photos. The current one leaves me with two questions:
1) How are the copper pipes connected to the vet pipe? Are you not risking the possibility of pulling exhaust air in to the cab with the way it is set up right now?
2) Where are you pulling the primary source of air to push through it? Does it come from outside the front of the vehicle, or is it pullin gfrom in the cab? |
Brad Morcom
Member
Username: Evil1
Post Number: 29
Registered: 02-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 10:42 am: |
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I will try to post another picture. The copper tubing is clamped to the muffler with hose clamps. The copper tubes run parallel to the muffler and are all stacked and clamped. The blower draws air near the hood vent that the brake fan uses. It would be near impossible to draw in exhaust. You would have to have a leak or hole in the exhaust and also a hole in the tubing. Also the fan pushes air through the tubes so they have positive pressure so if the tubes developed a hole it would leak air out not draw it in. I will keep an eye on the tubing as I dont know how long it will last resting on steel (galvanic action) but I am sure it will be years before it needs to be replaced. When you lay your tubing and clamp it leave 6 inches of tubing beyond the muffler so you can bend it and draw it together to put it inside the duct work. |
Joe J
Junior Member
Username: Jjconst07
Post Number: 19
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 07:15 pm: |
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Philip, I was just rereading this thread, my first couple projects on the Argo are complete, and now I want to tackle this heater idea. Looking back, you had asked in the beginning if I shut off the brake fan when at idle, How do you shut that fan off, as soon as I turn the key, the fan is running ? it would be nice to shut it off, when idling in the cold, it draws alot of battery power. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 480
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 09:27 pm: |
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Hi Joe-I checked your profile-Great pic. Joe you need to add a heavy duty switch in the line going to the fan. My switch plugs on where the fan was pluged on, and the wire from the fan plugs on to the switch. Very simple. Saves the battery, no cold air blowing on start-up, great when winching atvs. Caution!! if you run with the fan off,especially long straight runs, the brakes will overheat, fail and turn you in a circle- what a shock! Good luck and happy riding. |
Joe J
Member
Username: Jjconst07
Post Number: 20
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 01:10 pm: |
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Thank you Philip, I think I will go ahead and put that switch in, I will leave it on whenever the Argo is actually moving, but shut it down when at idle. |
Joe J
Member
Username: Jjconst07
Post Number: 22
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 02:06 pm: |
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Last night I completed the Argo Bigfoot heater system that Brad did to his 6x6, it took a little trial and error, but it works well. I thought I would pass along how I did it since you were all so helfull in this thread.I started by buying the 1/2 inch soft copper tubing, but found later on that what is really needed is the 1/2 inch inside diameter soft copper, you get better air flow in the end. I have 14 pieces I used,the more you can get on there the more air flow into the Argo.
I used 4 inch flex pipe to go from the cab to the fan, from the fan to the copper tubing, then again from the copper to the cab again.
The hardest part of the whole project is sealing the copper tubing to the 4 inch flex so you dont have leaks i decided to buy a tube of high heat caulking, I could get that in there and then using my fingers push it in between the tubes. really messy job, but it worked well. After that I sealed the 4 inch flex which was now squishing the caulking down between the copper as I crimped it with my hands with aluminum heat duct tape, worked well.
I scratched my head on what sort of fan to use, i took a few things I had in the garage apart and tried using the fan but was not satisfied at all, so I went to the store ( Menards ) and bought this 6 inch inline duct fan, 250 cfm, 27.99.
It wass an electric fac, 110 so I also purchased an ac/dc convertor for 14.99, this one is a 75 watt, but I think I would go for a 90 watt, the fan is just a little bit slower running off the invertor vs if I plug it into an electric source.
The way I hooked it up was directly to the battery,You can buy very cheaply the power point thing, just make sure the black wire with the white stripe goes to the positive side of the battery, I got it reversed, and immediatly and I mean immediatly fried both the wires to a crisp. After I did it right it worked great.I put a toggle switch on the lower right dash that controls off and on and the intake I put on the lower left dash, I still have to get some sort of decorative vent cover.
After that, you have to bend up the front and back of the original muffler heat shield and bolt it back down.
Works really good, the air that comes out is hot.
Now hopefully I did the posting correctly and once I hit " post " everything will be in the correct place. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 483
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 09:09 pm: |
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 Works really good and "THE AIR THAT COMES OUT IS HOT" Great job Joe, and very nice posting! Thank you |
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