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Stephane Levasseur
New member
Username: Sgldolfan
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 01:41 pm: | 
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I have a 1987 8x8 Argo with mechanical brakes. I have broken two axles in the last three weeks due to very poor brake performance. I have changed the calipers twice in the last three months due to wear caused by excessive pulling on the steering arms. But if I don't pull hard, I have no steering. 10 minutes into any ride, the brakes overheat and then there is complete loss of steering. At first I thought it was bad angles on the brake cams but I rectified that. Could it be bad disks or something else. Help. I have driven other Argos with mechanical brakes and they work like a charm. I am on my second set of complete calipers in the last 60 hrs of riding. |
Stephane Levasseur
New member
Username: Sgldolfan
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 04:08 pm: |
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I thought I should mention that I rebuilt my transmission this summer. I have been told perhaps my differential is not working properly and power is still being provided to both sides thus making it near impossible to brake also causing overheating of the brake pads. |
Erich Kelter
Intermediate Member
Username: Fisherman
Post Number: 63
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 05:31 pm: |
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Do you mean disk brakes or drum, I think you have disks on that machine. Do you have the electric blower that blows cold air over the disks? If the blower doesn't work, it will usually lead to the brakes overheating with very little if any brakes. The easiest way to check if the differential is working, jack the ARGO up both sides with wheels off the ground, start and put in gear, both sides should turn, then apply one brake lever, left or right, that side should stop, the other side turns. Let us know the outcome. |
Steve Chansler
New member
Username: Newatver
Post Number: 8
Registered: 09-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 07:36 pm: |
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I did not know that the ARGO used a differential, I do not mean to ask a stupid question but how are they 6 or 8 wheel drive with a differential? Are you sure about this? |
Stephane Levasseur
New member
Username: Sgldolfan
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 08:50 am: |
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Yes I meant dick brakes. The electric blower is only on the Argos with hydraulic brakes. The machines with mechanical systems do not have blowers. On the hydraulic systems, the firewall has two ducts to blow air directly to the calipers. I have jacked it up, and one side stops turning if I pull on the lever. I thought maybe with tension on the wheels the diff might not operate the way it should. |
robert longfellow
Junior Member
Username: Maxinout
Post Number: 16
Registered: 09-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 12:12 pm: |
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Yes 6x6 Argos are really just three wheel drive and 8x8 Argos are only 4 wheel drive, if you want true 6 wheel drive, get a MAX, sorry guys Robert |
Eddie L. Beddingfield
Intermediate Member
Username: Argo2003
Post Number: 97
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 01:37 pm: |
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Certain conditions warrant braking one side to transmit power to the other side.Even pulls on both sides ,such as in water and mud or on hardpack yes machines are 6 and 8 wheel drive. |
Erich Kelter
Intermediate Member
Username: Fisherman
Post Number: 64
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 02:18 pm: |
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And what does this have to do with his brake problem? I suppose you drive a Ford too. Find a cliff. |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 344
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 03:09 pm: |
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Robert, revisit or start a new thread about 3,4,6,8 wheel drive. Eddie and I need to enlighten you.  |
Stephane Levasseur
New member
Username: Sgldolfan
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 04:59 pm: |
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Going back to my original thread, I've also been told that if my brakes have been overheating for a long time, the disks might have hardened to the point that the pads do not grab which in turn end up overheating and become glazed in a matter of minutes. Could this be another possibility? |
Erich Kelter
Intermediate Member
Username: Fisherman
Post Number: 65
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 08:23 pm: |
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Yes, glazing is a possibility, it is visible, the surface will be slick as a babies butt, the pads may also be damaged from overheating. Any chance the pads have been contaninated with overspray fromn oiling the chains? |
gregg g
New member
Username: Brushcutter
Post Number: 8
Registered: 09-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 08:49 pm: |
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Light sanding with 240 grit sandpaper should remove the glazing from your discs;and oil on brake pads usually makes your brakes grab,not slip,as most people think. |
Stephane Levasseur
New member
Username: Sgldolfan
Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 08:20 am: |
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No. I took the chains off to rebuild my tranny. That's when I oiled them. Furthermore, the calipers and pads are brand new. They braked fine for the first 7-8 minutes then I started smelling brakes and that was it. Glazed in a matter of minutes and poor performance since. That's why I'm thinking the dics are f****ed causing premature glazing and almost instant overheating minutes into every adventure really making it an adventure because it decides which direction I'm going, not me. |
Erich Kelter
Intermediate Member
Username: Fisherman
Post Number: 66
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 11:36 am: |
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I did some checking on the net, and unless someone has replaced the whole braking system, ARGO 8x8's have had disc/caliper /hydraulic systems since 1981,(from ODG/ARGO) and, I'm going for another try here, if you have calipers and discs, the brakes are hydraulic. What also may have happened over time, is that the brake hoses are in bad shape and they swell up from the inside. This only allows brake fluid in one direction under pressure (when you pull back on the steering bars). When you release the steering bar, there is almost no pressure to return the brake fluid to the 2 small brake fluid reservoirs. That cuases overheating of the brakes discs and pads. Did you change the brake fluid by any chance. You cannot mix certain types of fluid. There's a reason for everything, just have to find out why. If I'm wrong I'll eat some crow. |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 345
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 12:11 pm: |
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Erich, I don't know the years, but they did have a manually applied rotor and pad system. It's hard to know Stephane's problem when we can't see it. |
Stephane Levasseur
New member
Username: Sgldolfan
Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 02:17 pm: |
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ODG had mechanical brakes on Argos up until 2006. Mine is a 1987 8x8 and my brother has a 1991 8x8 Vangard that also has mechanical brakes. The 6x6 Vangard had mechanical brakes until ODG discontinued the Vangard, Response and COnquest in 2007. The Vangard 2 had hydraulic system though. |
Stephane Levasseur
New member
Username: Sgldolfan
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 02:22 pm: |
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Here are a few pics taken from the Argo Service manual for 1992 machines and up.Hope this helps clear things up regarding these mechanical brakes. |
Erich Kelter
Intermediate Member
Username: Fisherman
Post Number: 67
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 02:31 pm: |
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Yuck, crow tastes like *&#,  . Okay Roger, what's the possibility that: even being a mechanical and maybe spring loaded that the pads aren't being released enough? |
Stephane Levasseur
New member
Username: Sgldolfan
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 02:40 pm: |
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Erich, the service manual says to use a feeler gauge of .010 but I found that wasn't quite enough space and there was always I little tension so I had about 1/16" space. |
Stephane Levasseur
New member
Username: Sgldolfan
Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 09:22 am: |
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Just in case someone else checks this thread, I have solved my problem. I machined the disks to take off the glaze and make them rougher. I removed the glaze off my brake pads, plus I put three slots in each pad, allowing brake dust to escape instead of sticking. Plus it allows quicker cooling. I have only used it about 2.5 hours but so far so good. I took a one hour ride, with the Argo pulling severely to the right so I was riding the left brake and I never lost breaking performance. I have had that machine for nearly two years now and the brake performance has never been this good. I hope it lasts. New chains are next on the list. |
Stephane Levasseur
Junior Member
Username: Sgldolfan
Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 11:00 am: |
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Update: The solved problem was short lived. The problem came back. I do believe the cams and the angle they were bent at was the problem. 100% of the pressure was not being applied to the disk causing poor brake performance and overheating. I bought a beat up 1988 Argo 8 I/C and took the hydraulic brake system from it. Problem solved. |
james scott schirtzinger
New member
Username: Schirtzy
Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 01:43 am: |
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i have a max and a 4 fords and the brakes works fine an all of them |
philip w.cox
Senior Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 540
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 02:53 pm: |
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Stephane, I am new to the world of Argos so I was unable to help you with your brake problems. Like you,I know people with 6x6 Vanguards with mechanical brakes that work fine. I am very happy to hear that after many months of struggling ,you have solved the problem. Happy riding. |
Shop Talk: Tech Tips and Q&A section 
Argo mechanical brakes