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(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 216.209.120.74
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 08:09 pm: | 
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Hello, Im just looking for a few ideas.
Ok first i have been on my different aatv's mostly argo. Anyways soon I would like to start to build my own with taking all of what I that the good points are from the different brand and models.
The only thing im stuck with is the transmission or some sort of power transfer unit. I dont know what I should use, wheather it be hydraulic, or hydrostatic, or a conventional transmission.
I think im going to use a 3 or 2 cyl diesel or gas engine not sure yet, but probably about 75-100 hp.
And now how i would like to operate it would be kinda like an argo drive with the simple high/low/reverse. But I dont want a belt drive, unless i have to.
All im looking for is some ideas, Im interested in eveything.
Larry |
Philip Croff
Member
Username: F14crazy
Post Number: 39
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 24.56.201.68
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 12:05 am: |
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There's a gentleman here with a Prarie Bobcat 6x6 with a Geo Metro motor and auto tranny |
david berger
Advanced Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 169
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.150.108.234
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 09:13 am: |
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not at all lary go ahead n ask, yes this question has bin done to death, every year someone asks, and yah theres loads of ideas.
and look the t-20 is still an alternitive as stearing trans, (abiet clumbsy) it's tough enoph to handle far more hp than your likely too throw at it.
so hook it up as chain drive input if you like.
the gears your looking for can be before the stearing box(t-20)
like conventional quad engine/trany for the power and chain or driveshaft to the t-20 stearing box.
dose that sound MAD enoph? go for it moneybags!!
if i wernt so dang poor id have a dozen MAD MAD creations by now.
like the MAD max II i saw at olean the first jamboree there, it had a three cylinder water cooled engine! i laiter asked Greg n. about it and he had got rid of it, dang it!
i realy liked it, no mater how fast you were goin in it all you had to do was throttle up some more to throw stones backwards down the trail behind you. it was super!! |
liflod
Member
Username: Liflod
Post Number: 39
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 24.3.236.145
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 11:16 am: |
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The belt drive torque converter system is almost a necessity on a vehicle like the AATVs we are talking about,unless you are going to use an automatic transmission. They are cheap,lightweight,durable and require no user interface like shifting gears. Snowmobiles have been using them for years and they will handle a whole bunch of power. Major auto companies are also starting to use them. If you have big problems with a belt drive , then you must be doing something wrong. What else can you put in that is cheaper,lighter and gives you the gearing range of a belt drive CVT ? |
Derek Hubbard
Junior Member
Username: Justmax
Post Number: 17
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 24.166.114.118
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 09:16 pm: |
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Here is my two cents:
Ford is now using a CVT in some of their cars, because of its varible gear ratios. After testing driving the new Argo Avenger at the 05' Ledges in Ohio, the cvt is the way to go. I was wondering has anybody use an airlocker in their design for an aatv.? Oh by the way love my Max2, but that Avenger was very nice(18k is out of my range).
Derek
Justmaxin |
james vick
New member
Username: Kciv
Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 66.169.197.150
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 12:48 am: |
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I am going Hydraulic. Works for a Bobcat. Hope to build one for $3k (and lots of labor)from scratch. I am about 75% done. Tomorrow I mount the engines and drive motors. Get hydraulic motors than can be placed in water. Steps:
1. Build tub.
2. Mount motors on the outside.
3. Mount engines and pumps on the inside.
4. Pumb together.
4. Mount outbourd motor.
Sounds simple but I am about 160 manhours into the project. |
david berger
Advanced Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 170
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.151.126.37
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 09:16 am: |
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look it's worth exploreing wether the stupid cvt's are robeing us of the tork potential gears and chain drive might give us back,
just for the raw power.
snowmobile tork converters seam weak at best and gears and cluch might alow a driver opertunity for higher preformence, cvt's are sort of pre-programed to do same thing all the time, wich might not be what you need in every situation,
snowmobiles dont drive over logs, dont climb hills (unless at top speed)never have to navagate mudd pit's,pull logs and or other aatv's,or quads for that matter'
yah cvt's are good for the cooky cutter factory machines, but that shouldent stop expirimentation.
concider it a quest for prefection! |
Frazer RM Ross
New member
Username: Beeman
Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 199.126.216.230
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 12:26 am: |
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I build a 6x6 PBC with a 1L suzuki and automatic transmission. The story at:
http://199.126.216.230:81/Frazer/vehicles/vehicles.htm (then click on Prarie Bob Cat)
another project I'm thinking of is an 8-wheeler, 8 wheel steering.. (theory right now.. but you can see the plans for ideas) at:
http://www.4wheeler.ca/index.php?showtopic=20755
As for drivetrain, you've got a lot of options like:
*Electric (probably best with a gas engine powering a rather large generator - which then powers your drive motors.. like hydrolics - but in electric form)
*Hydrolic - easy connecting up, but a little expensive to purchase. Plus, you lose something like 20% HP overall (from what I've heard.. although I don't know how that compares to the other systems)
*Direct Drive
- (Driveshaft) In my opinion, this is the best if you can get away with it, but you need some sort of gearing system.
*Belt - Works good if everything is tweeked correctly - unsure of the HP these things can handle though.
*Chain - same as a drive shaft but you need a good way of keeping the chain taught for both directions (roll ring?)
And then you could could even do pneumatic (I don't konw anything about this though)
Lots of possibilities! I guess it all depends on how you want it to handle! |
eugenekochnieff (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 210.49.25.207
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 06:05 am: |
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Frazer,
Your 8 wheeler could have it's steering greatly simplified.
Think of it this way, leave one axle unsteered the other three need to be steered, the rear being unsteered is mechanically the simplest as the three steered axles all steer in the same direction just at different radii.
As for drive options Purely mechanical tank steering is the best by far, search post by my name I have written at length on how they work.
But taking a leaf fom the books of modern awd cars electronic taction control is viable, use all open diffs and use electric brakes as used on trailers on each wheel.
A bit of smarts in a micro controller and voile. |
david berger
Advanced Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 171
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.209.140.244
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 09:36 am: |
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as eugenekochnieff has said on 8x8 stearing last can remain unsteared:
my thoughts to add are: why not stear them slightly in oposet direction?
that will give you the most responce |
Brett Bonner
New member
Username: Brettbonner
Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 70.60.93.151
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 04:52 pm: |
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I just bought a 3-in-1 lathe/drilling/milling machine and my drive plans are as follows:
1. 1.5 inch solid axels outboard of the outside bearings with real aluminum seal carrier grease packed before the "sealed" bearings. There will be no bearing lock. The axle will move as required.
2. A real wheel bearing on the inside axle with a shoulder on the axle and a threaded axle to get rid of that stupid and weak bolt. The axle/seal will have a real seal and be packed with grease.
I think that will solve the majority of my problems.
But if I get ambitious, I will build/modify gearboxes and drive shafts to replace the chains.
I think I want to stay all mechanical but replace the obvious design issues. |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.126.216.230
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 11:52 pm: |
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David B and Eugene K,
As for the steering, I think it would be simpler to turn all 8 (the back four at the oposite angles as the front 4), since I would only need to figure out a new angle of steering for the middle 4 tires (hard to explain..). Umm, the front and back tires will turn at the same angles but in opposite directions (since they will follow the same radius path) - so the gearing will be the same ratio. The middle front and back tires will also turn at the same angles but in opposite directions - but turn on a different radius path in relation to the very front and very back tires - so this would require a different gearing. If I were to use the same rack and pinion system out of a sprint to drive the front and back tires, then all I would need to do is have somesort of gear reduction coming off my steering column to another rack and pinion system for the middle tires.
As for the reason why I would want to do this (having the back tires turn one direction and the front tires turn the opposite direction) is so that I get a great improvement for being able to turn tighter then just front steering. (like you said David)
I plan to incorporate a cheap method of being able to skid steer the whole thing anyways (If I need to get out of a sticky situation) by utilizing two brakes, one for each side of the machine. Under regular operation I would have both brakes attached so that they worked together when either one brake was pressed, but if need be I could electrically/mechanically unlock the two brake systems so I could use the two pedals seperatly. |
david berger
Advanced Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 174
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.164.203.100
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 09:11 am: |
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well i was responding to the sugestion about rear wheels, id not worrie so much and just turn the 4 on each end oposet, the slight diference can be scrubed out from under the tires as there going to be on dirt most of the time,
and two brake system petels can be cloase together,
step on center and engage both or shift yer foot to one side or the other when you need to skid stear. |
david berger
Advanced Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 175
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.164.203.100
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 09:31 am: |
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ooh yah and id forget that lower controle arm,
ground clearence is too dang inportent.
your on right track with suspention power but upper controle arm can be one solid part with the end of arm suport for axel, the suspention travel is only a few inches and big ol low p.s.i. tires will alwase be flat on the bottom anyway.
picture in mind not an A fraim but something like a VA fraim, open end horazontle on body, virticle as suport for king pin stearing knucle.
hope produceing this mentle picture dosent hurt much, i cant work the computer drafting programs like you guy's can.
and lastly the universals on axel can also work like old rear wheal drive trany yoke to alow splined axel stub to slide in and out to alow for suspention induced axel lenth chainge if it becomes a problem. |
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