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Marc Hanses (4.240.39.128)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 11:50 pm: | 
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I have lubed all outside bearings and checked flange bolts for even torque but not too much torque.Personaly I never felt that the factory drain plugs could be even close to water tight, there to hard of a plastic.You can feel them push back out a little after installing them.Do rubber ones seal better? I would think so.I havn't had a chance to lift the lid while in water to see where the water is comming form but the hull is in great shape.I really feel the leak in sth stock plugs and yes I have a bag of them and even new ones havent helped.Has Max ever had a estamated time you can float before having to drain.I rigged up a bilge pump out of a RV water pump but only got about 20minuts of use before it stopped priming itself ( sucking air then water).I put 4 layers of window screen over the ends of the pickup hoses to stop debris but I guess the pump still couldn't handle it. |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_Price) (69.27.205.74)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 12:42 pm: |
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The factory drain plugs won't leak unless your plug holes are all chewed up from removing plugs. You can put a bit of marine grease on them to make a better seal if you are in doubt.
All your leaks are no doubt coming from the axle bearings. The Max bearing design may very well go down in history as the worst vehicle bearing design ever. They are low quality cheap bearings that are not even designed to run under water (or mud!) You can prolong their life if they are greased regularly and you are lucky enough to have a flange tight enough to even allow the bearing to be greased. The bearings in the brand new vehicles are better but are still not the answer we are looking for. I've had a Max only four years old, barely used with 100 hours, and the bearings were trashed.
Search around a bit for a bearing distributor. Those bearings can be had for about $13 each. The biggest job is replacing them, but at least you'll be water tight for a little while. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) (216.166.168.53)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 10:52 am: |
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Marc, I think you have more than normal leakage. What year and model machine and how many hours? Have you checked for bearing slop? I don't think you are getting much (if any) leakage from the drain plugs; my guess is still flange bolts unless you have a bad bearing. A bearing can have a little slop and still work fine as a bearing, but will not seal water unless you take the bearing out and fill it with grease manually because it is almost impossible to get enough grease in the bearing from the zerk. The zerk is to fill the cavity around the bearing with a little getting into the bearing (enough for lubrication, but not enough for water sealing).
I also think that if you are going to install a bilge pump, that you should use a product made for the job and make sure you keep the inside of your tub clean.
You can put water inside (to cover the axles and upper flange bolt/s) and watch where it leaks out. I do this with all six wheels removed so I can tighten the flange bolts if necessary and can also tell if it is coming through the bearing. |
BigWolf (68.40.23.217)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 05:22 pm: |
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Brandon,
You hit the nail right on the head with your analysis and comments about the bearing application and design of the Max machines! I was wondering when some one was going to notice and talk about this specific issue in more depth. Brett Bonner was on a real good roll for a while there, when he was exposing and discussing many of the other major application and design flaws of the Max. I figured that some one would eventually figure this one out and discuss it more. This issue has probably already been discussed for years and is buried in the archives on the forum some where.
I guess the only positive thing about the bearing issue, is that they are relatively inexpensive to buy and change out on your own. It looks to me like it will be a lot of labor and work to change out bearings on an annual or semi-annual basis.
As the bearings are currently applied there is very little chance that any grease will ever get into the bearings and races, when pumped through the manual zerk fittings mounted on the bearing flange plates. |
marc hanses (4.240.39.172)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 01:58 pm: |
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Thanks for the info all.I thoght about filling up teh tub a little to look for leaks but thought that maybe the water would neen a little pressure like when its floating to truly show the leaking areas.I have been putting a little marine greese on the plugs but it still seems to leak teh same.I was hoping the plugs were going to be the main problem ( easier to fix).I have a 1998 max 2 with about 110hrs on it but it sat for about 3 to 4 years before I got in here in AZ mtns.It's pretty dry out here and maybe some of the rubber flanges around the axles have dry rotted to much.I'll check for bearing play also.one of the axles is bent from the previous owner about an 1/8 " but it's all on teh outside of the bearing so shy of the little wobble on pavment it's no big deal considering a new axle is 175.00 eeek.Makes me want to try to straighten it but itsl solid steel 1 1/4.I have seen some fellows use a jack 4x4 and chain to bend them back while still in the vehical but I dont think you can do it with a solid axle.So there isn't a rubber seal on each cartridge bearing? is it an open gap with greese for its only seal from water pressure?and when we use the zerk were only pressing greese up against the side of the face of the bearing hoping it will seep into the gap in the side of the bearing where there should be a seal? |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) (216.166.168.53)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 03:17 pm: |
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Marc, my guess is the bent axle is causing the leak. And the water is coming through the flange bolt holes (assuming that bearing is good). You would need the flange bolts a lot tighter than 20 ft lbs to hold everything in place especially if you ever run on hard stuff meaning hard pack dirt or gravel.
You can use the jack and chain method on a solid axle, but the best answer is to take it to a welding shop and have them straighten it on a press.
Actually there is a grease groove and some grease goes into the bearing. The bearings seal fine as long as there is no slop. Lots of people have no leakage problem. I personally think that the flange bolts loosen up because the neoprene seal between the inner flange and the body compresses from being under pressure. If the flange bolts are allowed to be run loose, dirt and stuff gets in and the problems start. The harder one drives his machine, the more apt the bolts are to loosen up and the more likely the bearings are to be compromised.
I think bent axles need to be straightened right away (at least almost perfect) if one is to keep the machine water tight. |
david berger (Davidrrrd) (205.188.116.14)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 04:35 pm: |
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the solid axels straten in machine far better than the tube axels do,
(i got the credit for bringing this stupid stratening tech to the world,)
seams after a few times the tube axels sort of get spageti bends,4 bends make em true sort of artistic rendering of a true axel LOL.
the solids are not as bad to straiten.
your water is probly comeing from same place im getting most of mine from these days.
not loose flange bolts but rather weakend flangets.
the stamped shape that cradels the sphiricle bearings(spell that three times fast)
can become beaten out of shape some, alowing slopy fit, and thus worse leak than threw just the bearings alone, the + side theres not as much psi to cause bearings to be damaged by water, LOL
big wolf back all them years ago when this topic became buired in the archives it was interestingly brandon and myself discussing this water leaking isue, heh heh
his machine was new and so was he, heh heh
it was i who was replaceing bearings each year.
actualy had discution bord members sending me bearings to keep my video machine rollling,
i had them out often enoph to have opertunity to also beat each flang half agenced a wood block with a hammer and test fit agenced a bearing to check progress, kept them old ones working for a while, but i should have had something better than them cheep stamped steal flangets made up long ago.
something from steal plate with machined serfice insted of the dam stamped shape usless things that are o.e.m. hell put a seal it it while yer at it huh! |
Timothy Schotanus (Mudbuster) (206.15.138.211)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 08:21 am: |
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I had a severe water leak problem a while back with my max4. I assumed that I had bearing problems because. My machine is 4 years old and ridden rough. After checking I did not have bearing problems(a couple did feel a little rough but no play) I had some rivets missing from my skid plate. 5 holes each 3/16 inch will leak a lot of water. While I was working on the machine I did use some gasket maker on the outer bearing to body plates and now I don't leak a drop. Be careful when you think you are leaking, some comes in from splashing. I like the idea of going in the water with no floor pan(careful where you put your feet) and just watch. |
John Schwab (Johnschwab) (69.48.10.136)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 09:56 pm: |
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Hi Tim- I used the no-floor-pan idea to find my MaxII leaks also. It turns out most of my leakage was through damaged drain plug holes and a small puncture in the front. I simply put a little RTV sealant on the plugs if I will be doing any swimming and that takes care of it. Afterwards the RTV easily rubs off of the plastic with a rag. |
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