| Author |
Message |
    
Bill cripe (Bcripe)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: | 
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Well after a marathon driving session I am in NW Montana with my Max and dang if it didnt break again! This time it will only turn right. Looks like where the drive chain comes out of the T20 and connects to a double sprocket that the welds broke holding one of the sprockets to the tube onto which both sprokets are connected. Looks like this must be a pretty weak connection since two of the other sprockets (one on each side) have already been welded. I can get it welded but what gives next??? I dont want to get stranded somewhere. Guess I better buy radios.
Is this common?
Thanks,
Bill |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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bill this used to happen to me often but i have solved it in my maxII,
on the side that has thouse twin sprokets cloase together you dril 1/2" hole threw both sprocets just below the space your chain touches,
(use a piece of chain around it to be shure)
you do this on a drill press, you can drill 3 holes in triangle pateren, or 4 - 5 holes, ect.. this i leave up to you, i drilled 3 holes in triangle pateren out as far from center tube as posable without entering the chain area and then placed 1/2" steal rod threw them, mark it and cut flush with outer sides of the 2 sprokets,(
works on triples too!) this prevents tork from twisting tube to the point of shearing by transfering it out too far from tube,
then spot weld them all, alow cooling time between each rod end spot weld, so you dont permenently screw your sproket alignment with streched by heat distortion during the welding prosses, next go back and compleatly weld each on outer side being shur you get proper penetration, ect. ect. (so you can grind nice after)alow it to cool well between each weld.
what happens to these o.e.m. sproket sets on jack shafts is they shear between the sprokets because on inside they are bored for bushings and bushing bore is a flat bottom bore (90*)this causes a srtess riser, at the same time recreatives decided the best place to weld thease sprokets was on inside edge, (heh heh) yes right over the end of bushing bore, welding chainges the hardness of metal somewhat, this is also a stress riser, so you can see they are made to brake, wether intentionaly or not they will brake over the end of the bore for resons above. unfortunatly for us this is between the sprokests leaveing you whereever you happen to be with a 600 lb paperwheight,
now for your other side, the long tube between the sprokets might alow tork to twist them so the 1/2" rod trick is out, for this side i had my local machine shop fabricate a new sproket tube with specs from the one i brought to them but had the tube enlarged to strenthin it, i told them to "give me 1/2 inch wall thickness"
this means from inside the bor end to the outside where the sprokets are welded there is 1/2" min. of steal tubeing, it's alot of wheight but i was in an overkill mood at the time,
he did one better by boring it with a smother radioused end thusly removeing the stress riser,
a shor time ago i happend to be looking inside a relitivly new maxII and i saw recreatives had also made there newer sproket tubes larger in diamiter, so if i were you for this one id call ritchard clark to see if he has a later model jack shaft sproket set with the beefyer tubeing, his price may well beat a machin shops quote, also see if he can check out how thick it is from the insid bore end to the weld point between the sprokets,(just in case)
if i had the cash id be makeing thes indestructable jack shaft sets to sell from my atv video buisness (like my A.B.S.repair kits,)
because i beleave in them, i have tested them under extreem loads and most sevear beatings posable, now the rest of my maxII is termanaly worn out, heh heh heh |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
|
bill this used to happen to me often but i have solved it in my maxII,
on the side that has thouse twin sprokets cloase together you dril 1/2" hole threw both sprocets just below the space your chain touches,
(use a piece of chain around it to be shure)
you do this on a drill press, you can drill 3 holes in triangle pateren, or 4 - 5 holes, ect.. this i leave up to you, i drilled 3 holes in triangle pateren out as far from center tube as posable without entering the chain area and then placed 1/2" steal rod threw them, mark it and cut flush with outer sides of the 2 sprokets,(
works on triples too!) this prevents tork from twisting tube to the point of shearing by transfering it out too far from tube,
then spot weld them all, alow cooling time between each rod end spot weld, so you dont permenently screw your sproket alignment with streched by heat distortion during the welding prosses, next go back and compleatly weld each on outer side being shur you get proper penetration, ect. ect. (so you can grind nice after)alow it to cool well between each weld.
what happens to these o.e.m. sproket sets on jack shafts is they shear between the sprokets because on inside they are bored for bushings and bushing bore is a flat bottom bore (90*)this causes a srtess riser, at the same time recreatives decided the best place to weld thease sprokets was on inside edge, (heh heh) yes right over the end of bushing bore, welding chainges the hardness of metal somewhat, this is also a stress riser, so you can see they are made to brake, wether intentionaly or not they will brake over the end of the bore for resons above. unfortunatly for us this is between the sprokests leaveing you whereever you happen to be with a 600 lb paperwheight,
now for your other side, the long tube between the sprokets might alow tork to twist them so the 1/2" rod trick is out, for this side i had my local machine shop fabricate a new sproket tube with specs from the one i brought to them but had the tube enlarged to strenthin it, i told them to "give me 1/2 inch wall thickness"
this means from inside the bor end to the outside where the sprokets are welded there is 1/2" min. of steal tubeing, it's alot of wheight but i was in an overkill mood at the time,
he did one better by boring it with a smother radioused end thusly removeing the stress riser,
a shor time ago i happend to be looking inside a relitivly new maxII and i saw recreatives had also made there newer sproket tubes larger in diamiter, so if i were you for this one id call ritchard clark to see if he has a later model jack shaft sproket set with the beefyer tubeing, his price may well beat a machin shops quote, also see if he can check out how thick it is from the insid bore end to the weld point between the sprokets,(just in case)
if i had the cash id be makeing thes indestructable jack shaft sets to sell from my atv video buisness (like my A.B.S.repair kits,)
because i beleave in them, i have tested them under extreem loads and most sevear beatings posable, now the rest of my maxII is termanaly worn out, heh heh heh |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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I have a question- its been asked before but I couldn't find where it was and didn't know the answer. I completely understand that Ontario Drive & Gear Ltd. and Recreative Industries are 2 totally different companies both producing quality amphibious vehicles. And also, in no way am I trying to start another stupid Max vs. ARGO debate but why is it that the Max always seems to be the ones with failing parts that seem to be attributed to design flaws? Is this the case or do the ARGO owners just not admit problems? My ARGO has never really had a major problem that required massive work other than the regulator blowing and other parts that we know require replacement after a period of time, mainly chains, bearings, brake pads etc. Other than that, I have never had a major problem, furthur more, havn't heard of anyone with big problems with their machines (ARGO) other than some old ARGOs from the 70's and early 80's that did have some weaker components. I don't like to put it this way but is it a case of "get what you pay for" or just unforseen weak points in the Max? |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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Bill, I wouldn't say it is common (I personally have never had and none of my customers have approached me with such a breakdown), but just about all max Parts are made by small jobbers pretty much "by hand". When people do the work, things aren't always 100% (for whatever reason).
If you take the broken sprocket to a welding shop, they will fix you right up or you can contact Richard Clark for a replacement. If you want to buy a factory replacement, call RI and they can have it to you overnight if you desire. |
tropicjungleboy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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hey david: your aproach is right!!!
argo machines are more beefed up component than maxex...also the open diferential configuration put less stress on machinery...on the other hand maxes are trully 6x6 (remember the argo 3 wheel drive syndrome!!)........therefore maxes go further and received more punishment!!!!...........argo machine with true 6x6 capability (with limited slip diferential or a t20 variation) at raseonable asking price will be the end of this argo vs. max topic.....meanwhile two diferent performances with logically 6x6 on top on traction issue (max) and best space and better component endurance on the argo side......... |
Bill cripe (Bcripe)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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Hey guys, thanks for the info. The tube didnt break, just the weld around the bottom of the sproket. We took it to the local welder and he fixed it right up. There is only one sproket that has not been welded so I guess I had better get that one done too. Looks like one of the sprockets that had been previously rewelded is pretty bent up. Will that be a problem? Fred, I am surprised that you never had this problem. Maybe mine was just a weak pair. Looks like the same thing had happened to sprockets on both sides before. Also it pops and snaps quite a bit when driving over uneven terrain. Is that normal? I am running 1.5 psi. It is running pretty good other than these problems.
Dont know about Argos but would like to try one sometime.
BC |
Joe ( - 24.75.42.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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An Argo is built stronger huh? I guess that is why my '98 Bigfoot sits and my '01 Max II 800T is ridden quite often (snow plowing too). Small Argo bearings don't last before they break, leaking axles because the seals in that bearing housing wore grooves in them, won't go as far as the Max in the slop, especially after the damn beads break on those tires. Yeah, my Max has had some problems too, a couple bearings went and I bent an axle. Those trees just don't move. I like both vehicles, if not I would have sold one. Bill, is your Max new? My '01 is one heck of a machine compared to my buddy's '85 Max II. He's always fixing the damn thing and I compare it to mine and keep telling him....don't waste your money, buy a new one. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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Bill, I have serious questions about your machine. Just seems to me that there is no way it could have only had minimal hours on it when you bought it as you told us. Something doesn't smell right here.
I have had machines in for service with hundreds of hours and I have never seen a broken sprocket. Can't even imagine how one would break a sprocket except for getting something in the chain. Sprockets need to be in good shape or they will eat chains up in short order. If you have a bent sprocket, the chain could be under tension at certain times and would pop. I'd have your welder check your sprockets for trueness. It is possible that if they were broken that they were welded so they don't run true. The frame will flex when going over uneven ground, but you shouldn't have any pops and snaps. Maybe your frame is broken or you have some loose bolts somewhere. |
eric moeller
New member
Username: Mad_max_500cc
Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.161.76.32
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 10:51 pm: |
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what year is your max because older models used thin wall tubing new ones today are almost 2 times as thick and i havent broken one yet |
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Shop Talk: Tech Tips and Q&A section