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Motown's (Bigwolf)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: | 
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Hey guys I have an interesting item to share and discuss regarding the new style Max heated throttle cable assembly. Just last week end when I had all the floor pans and rear engine compartment housing removed from my Max IV-950T, I noticed some thing different and strange about the clear plastic/vinyl tubing that houses the new style heated throttle cable. Normally I always see some condensation inside of the tube where it runs along the bottom lower body area. This time I did not see any condensation and initially thought that it dried up inside. However, when I looked closer, I found that the tube was completely filled with water just about the entire length of the lower body pan, and just starting up the bend area in the tube.
I thought this was a very strange thing to discover, particularly when both ends of the tube are sealed up real good with heated shrink wrap type tubing! The water inside the tube is absolutely cristal clear, meaning it came from one of two possible sources, either condensation build up or over spary when I wash and clean every thing up periodically. I am not completely sure of convinced that it filled up with water from the cleaning and washing, because I do not consentrate any water spray on the throttle cable sealed ends at all. I saw this condensation appear for the first time during the winter after I had used the heating function as it is intended to be used.
I am sure that there is not a hole or leak in the tube any where in the lower body area, other wise the water in the tube would be dark in color from dirty water. I am now thinking there could be a split some where along the tube, where it is tie wrapped to the steering levers down low, or it could just be condensation build up from the heat and humidity.
I thought this was an interesting and strange thing to find, and figured that I would share this one with every one. Dan also saw this when he came over last week end to check out the Max inside and out.
Although my machine is still under warranty with the factory, I probably will not bother to call and talk to Jay about it. It's not that big of a deal, it still works correctly, and it is not a very expensive cost for a new heated throttle cable assembly, and I already have a couple of spares on hand any way. Besides Jay gets very sensative and defensive some times when I call and speak with him personally about potential problem items!
Has any one else experienced this same kind of issue with their heated throttle cable assembly? Just curious! |
BlueKnigthtNJ
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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Moisture in the Heated Throttle Cable.
Would it be a good idea to put one or two small (tiny) holes in the lowest part of the cable to facilitate draining the water that does collect?
Of course that does open the thought for RI to actually make a new heated throttle cable assembly that is sealed with some non-freezing lubricating solution already encapsulated?
My 2 cents on that topic! |
Motown's (Bigwolf)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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Hello Bill,
I will have to figure out a good way to drain it out, and then figure out how to reseal it again. I will probably just diassemble the entire cable assembly, and dump it out, then dry it out, and then try to reseal it with some marine grade rubber cement on both ends.
If it is truely sealed and air tight, then condensation should not build up inside of the clear tube.
From what I see, that's about all you can do with it. |
michigan maxster
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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I had a similar problem and could'nt figure out where the condensation was coming from. I determined that the more I used the heater the more buildup I would have. I cured the problem by adding a small amount of RV. (pink) antifreeze so it wouldn't freeze up. It seems to be working as I have not had any throttle problems. I can also tell you that sealing both ends of the cable didn't help. The moisture still appeared. |
Motown's (Bigwolf)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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The anti freeze idea should work ok, as long as the heating element does not short circuit over time.
Dan also e-mailed a couple of ideas over to me, one idea would be to just cut the clear tubing off and install some teflon spiral wrap to replace the tubing. This would probably work good, until dirt and grime build in the lower body causes the heating element to go bad.
The other idea he had is to seal both ends with an aircraft grade sealant/adhesive. This would work good also except that "michigan maxter" has noted that the condensation seems to appear even after being sealed up good.
Probably the only solution to completely eliminate the condensation would be to seal both ends absolutely air tight, and then purge out the trapped air in the tube with an inert gas like nitrogen, and seal it off. They use this same procedure to seal high qualty rifle scopes and high quality binoculars.
This sealing and purging with nitrogen would not be very realistic or a robust solution, the anti freeze or spiral wrap would be the better choices.
The funny thing about this condensation build up issue is, it should not affect the throttle cable functioning, as far as I can see. The throttle cable is sealed in its own jacketed sheath inside the clear tubing, so the water and freezing should not cause any problem. Unless of course when the water does freeze, it may contract and restrict the throttle cable movement, or it may even cause condensation to occur inside of the throttle cable itself.
Anhy way these are just some thoughts and analysis about it! |
BrettBBonner
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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Well, I've been victimized by water in the throttle cable heater tube. In fact, it impares the functioning of the system!!!
On a cold duck hunting morning, the throttle heater (that uses about 1 amp) now has to melt a 1/2 tube of ice instead of a little ice between the cable and housing. This takes a long time. In fact, it took almost 3 hours this year. Some system!
Perhaps it's time to get rid of a throttle cable and use a good linkage mechanical system or a hydraulic system.
A new project! |
Motown's (Bigwolf)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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I have one final thought and possible solution to solve the condensation thing once and for all. You can easily just inject exopy into the entire length of clear tubing, and completely encapsulate the entire throttle cable assembly in epoxy. This would completely seal the tube off and protect it from water, condensation build up, and also further protect it from chaffing damage.
This is what I would recommend as the final solution! Problem solved! |
dt5428
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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Hey Bigwolf just make sure the Epoxy is nonconductive if memory serves me right that was bare wire on the heating element and any chaffing might be a direct short to ground.I am not sure how your wiring is setup but if it is not fused which it should be you run into a whole new ball of wax possibly burning something else out.But other than that it sounds like a good idea although it may be tough to inject thoughout the whole cable run.I think the PRC sealant I was talking about is nonconductive and I think you could use a syringe to inject it in several locations.And yes I forgot to look maybe tomorrow I have a bad memory fot this kind of stuff.
Later,Dan
Later,Dan |
Motown's (Bigwolf)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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There is also one more alternative to solve the condensation build up problem other than injecting epoxy in the tube and encapsulating it. You could also inject and fill the tube with a clear synthetic motor oil. The synthetic oil would act as a better insulator for the electric heating coil circuit, versus a water based anti freeze, the oil will displace and float any water build up in the tube, and it will not freeze up. Once the oil is heated up, it will retain the heat a little bit longer than water will, which would aid in reducing the flash re-freezing of the throttle cable again. |
Bill Aras (Blueknightnj)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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Throttle Cable... New Project...
Forget the throttle cable, let do FLY BY WIRE ! |
David Seidel (6x6aatv)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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My 2002 Max IV had water in the tube as well. Very clear water. Full. What the heck? So I removed the sealing shrink tubing from both ends and blew compressed air through back and forth all while letting the heater warm till I had it completely dry. Then I thought I would be real smart and make a adapter on the throttle side of the cable to force white lithium into the throttle cable (not the clear hose). Worked great too, grease came out the other end by the throttle lever end. But..... now it was stiff as heck, even at 65 degrees. Now how the heck do I get this crap out. I hooked up a rubber hose over it and shot air through the cable. Took quite a bit of pressure and bulging tube that I used, but I finally got it out. The throttle cable worked good this past winter, even at minus 30 without the heater. I had reassembled the cable with the original shink tubing. I made sure that I always cover the throttle lever (water funnels in) and that the carb end is such that water does not flow in from there.
Now the choke cable is another story. That froze up and I have to figure a way to fix that.
Also, I fixed my broken throttle lever (plastic) by drilling and tapping 2-3 holes with small allen cap screws to hold it together. I used epoxy to glue it together also. Works good so far. |
Motown's (Bigwolf)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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You know we can always just do what Brandon Price does, I read in another message some where that he just ties the throttle level wide open with some bailing wire. Then there is no possibility of failure, or any thinking required, you have one throttle position and one speed, and that is wide open.
When you turn the key switch on your at full throttle and start out with a wheel stand, and when you are done riding for the day, just turn the key switch off and coast to a stop. No need to change speeds any where in the middle!
Correct me if I am wrong Brandon, but that is how I invision you riding, and rumor has it, that is very accurate! |
dt5428
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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Hey Big Wolf one thing we did not talk about was that I think sometimes design flaws are left without a fix because this is another source of money for the companys I would be willing to bet that parts and accessories are a big chunk of the revenues for the aatv market so why fix something if you can keep making money from it.You guys with the Max machines should try placing a latex glove or something of the sorts over the throttle lever area and ride and wash you machines with this in place for a while and find out for sure if this is your problem area or it is something else.If this is the area at fault I think some type of form fitted soft rubber boot over the throttle lever area would work great but not to sure how it would work in the cold.I like the fly by wire idea as you could run the whole thing with servos and a joy stick now this would be a fun one to trouble shoot.I could see some of the discussions on the board now.Uncommanded throttle response?Help!!!!!Or my machine only turns to the left no matter what I do which would be ok for the Nascar fans.LOL
Later,Dan |
Motown's (Bigwolf)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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I am sure they enjoy some decent revenue on parts sales, at least until you become a lot wiser on your own. Many of their parts stuff most people probably do not have a problem with them making a buck on, but the high wear stuff like bearings, and sprockets and chain, they need to become a little more realistic on their costing. If they would do things like that, it would only make more of their customers become even more dedicated to support them over time.
It would also be real nice to see them more up front and honest with people regarding the true Life Cycle Cost to maintain their products/machines.
I do not wish to insult or bad mouth the R.I. factory guys, they are very nice and very curtious people to deal with from a customers view point. I think that they are aware about many of the inherent flaws in their products, they try to fix them as best they can, when enough customers and dealers complain about them. I think their mentality is that the little minor issues are not that big of a deal, just a minor inconvenience type thing. The problem with that thinking is that the customers of today expect their products to be absolutely flawless, robust, and should last for many years with little or no attention. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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David Seidel, the plastic levers are realy cloase for most snowmobils and posably not to dificult to get one you can use rather than glueing one together, recreatives has come out with an all aluminum vertion however it requires you to purches the whole shooting mach to get one, i have repaired them myself with my ABS repair matireal but i also like to stock up on snowmobile throtles and brake levers when they become available, i have upgraded my friends older model skid stears with them, and on one i even used a moped's brake lever!
best anti freez soloution i found so far was concentraited automotive antifreez suctioned threw my throtel cable with a vacume pump,
(your wifes cars intake manifold vacume port in a pinch)
the thery for this is any water that may happen to get by your best eforts to keep it out will become part of the antifreez chemicle up to 50/50 befor it lowers it's ability to resist freezing in the slightest!
now even better than that you can build your own cable with stainless steal bycicle derailer cable (tandom kit)and then fill that with the above mentioned automotive antifreez, |
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