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Message |
    
Bill cripe (Bcripe)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: | 
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Hello, I recently bought a Max II from Robert Stapleton in Windsor Colorado. I checked out references via ebay and spoke to him on the phone several times and he seems like a real nice guy and everything checked out. He sold two Max IIs and a Max IV on ebay. I missed out on those but he said that he had another 450T that he hadnt put on ebay yet and was willing to sell that to me. So I took a big chance and wired him the money on Friday, Jan 30. He was to ship it to me via con-way. He was to get me a tracking number on Monday, then on Wednesday but I still dont have one. He is very hard to get hold of and I am starting to get worried.
Has anybody ever dealt with him before? I dont think he is a crook but these days you never know. What recourse do I have if he doesnt come through? Anybody have any suggestions?
Thanks a lot,
Bill Cripe |
Bill Aras (Blueknightnj)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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If you do not hear from the Seller by week's end, then I might suggest you file a police report with your local Police Department.
Be sure to have all of your documentation/e-mails/information when you go to file a report.
Demonstrate document the paper trail to the PD and get it going. This way the detective that gets it assigned can make contact with the Seller's PD and place some pressure on him.
Any questions, feel free to contact me OFF LIST
at BlueKnightNJ@prodigy.net |
Bud
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Call Recreative Industries and see if they show him as a dealer. They may be able to help. |
Full Contact Sports Fan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Really sorry to hear you are having trouble with a Max Dealer from out of your state area. You may want to just drive up there and see him in person, and find out what is going on.
Of course you never want to leave for a trip with out packing the Louisville and some clean shorts. Hey you never know when or where a good ball game or hockey game may break out, so it is always a good idea to keep your equipment and gear on hand. |
Bill cripe (Bcripe)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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This is a real bummer. I have contacted people who he has sold other ATVs to and everything checked out OK. I talked to one guy who actually went to his warehouse to pick up a quad. His ebay user id is vicrob1. The three max's that he sold on ebay where private auctions so I cant get the ebay IDs of the winners. I hope it works out.
Bill |
Big Wolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Sorry to hear about the problem! I just became a new Max Dealer the end of December, up in the Detroit Area, and I am also quickly learning just how "CUT THROAT" the Max Dealership network really can be. Some would call it free enterprise at its best, however, I think the term used to sum it up is much more accurate!
I can tell you this much, there is no way in HELL that I would send my money to any dealer several states away, just to buy some thing for a buck cheaper. I dont care how reputable he tells you he is, or how glamourous their web site may appear to be. When you make a deal out of state to buy any thing of substantial value, either you go and pay for it and pick it up in person, or you pay for it, when it arrives C.O.D. at your front door. If you do any thing other than that, you are only asking for trouble.
I have had several people locally here, one as close as 2 miles away, contact me and tell me that they have been in touch with Max Dealers several states away, that are mailing them brochures and video tapes and are trying to sell machines, literally right in my own back yard. And after telling me this, they tell me they did not know we were hear in the same town, and they are glad they found us. A person would have to be absolutely crazy to be doing business with any dealer so far away for any thing. Unless you do not have a dealer located within the general area of your own state or region.
You will find that most of the dealers including myself, that sell most any brand of ATV's, are not major business corporations. Most if not all are basically mom a pop type businesses, Ok some may say INC. or L.L.C., but that dont mean squate with respect to cash flow and business size. If you have no authorized dealer available to buy from in your state or region, then contact the factory, and or a distributor and talk and deal with them directly.
Sorry about that other fellow Amphibious ATV Dealers, but it is time for a good holesom reality check. If you are so busy watching and trying to turn deals via the internet, way off in distant locations and states, then get real people, you are not fooling any one, or doing your job as a dealer, and you are not doing any one any justice, and there is no question that you are neglecting to properly serve your own area's, state, and region.
I think this is a good example of where Argo does a much better job of handling their distribution and dealership network versus R.I. and the Max Brand Products. The Max dealership network seems to be more of a free for all concept!
If this hurts any one feelings, I am sorry, but too bad! It is time that some one said some thing about it. You guys know who you are, and so do I! |
Bill cripe (Bcripe)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Actually, there arent any Max dealers in So Cal. Or within a days drive of me. This unit was supposedly a 2001 demo with 12 hours. The three he sold on ebay (also demos) went for a bit over $3000. He offered this to me for $3000. I talked to him and several of his previous customers before I bought it. Everything checked out. I wasnt bypassing my local dealer for a machine a "buck cheaper" |
Robert L
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Now I see another reason not to be a dealer
for these machines. all the dealers screwing
each other, just to get rid of machines
Robert Longfellow |
Big Wolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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I am sorry Bill, I did not mean to insult you or try to make you look foolish! That was not my intent, please do forgive me!
It is just very disturbing to read about some thing like this actually happening to some one. It just further reinforces to people that read these notes, that any thing can happen to cause a business deal to go bad, and its worse when there is several states in between.
I still want to put a couple shots accross the bows of many dealers that are doing business in this manner every day. They know who they are, and I do hope they log on a read these notes and hear what I have to say to them. Yes it is free enterprise, but you are conducted in a very low class manner, and I want to warn people about dealing with some of these people, for a major purchase of this type.
When I was told just yesterday about this Max dealer that was trying to sell a machine to a guy only two miles away from me, knowing full well that we are here. He could have easily referred him to use for assistance and to test drive a unit, but he did not. I do have much more to say to those that have been doing this on a regular basis!
So lets clean it up and execise some real integrity guys! |
Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Big Wolf,
I know what you mean. I had a Max sold a few years ago, to a guy locally, and lost the sale beacause another dealer out of State sold him one for $25 over dealer cost and no sales tax. Of course, the guy bought from him and not me. In case you don't know, if a dealer sells a unit to a person in your area, they have to pay you $250 unless the unit is out of stock. Actually, RI will charge that dealer $250 more and then they will pay you the money.
Bill, with what you are saying, it sounds like the person you bought the Max from may not be a dealer at all. If you haven't yet, call RI and ask them about him. Good luck and I hope you don't get screwed from him. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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bill,
dude it sounds bad.
it sounds like a electronic skam with no dealer just a crim with a fake name to me.
it sounds to me like there were no customers they are just all in this rort rip off and are pretending to be happy customers of his when realy thair in the split of your money they steal.
i hope i'm wrong. and he's just slow at delivering it.
and anyhow when you buy a anything,
you should :
make shure he has a dealership, remember anyone can photo a bike shop and put a fake sign on it with a fake name using photo editing tools over the net. and edit a few max 's out the frount.
don't meet at a cafe to do the sale , go to the dealership in person.
take a friend, a footballer or bouncer.
test drive it first.
look at where you will take it for dealer service and repairs. man if you'r not willing to drive there for a test drive then how will you take it there for a service.
make shure it's not second hand with money owing on it.
follow big wolf's advice in how to pay.
c,o,d, or a loan you pay of fast is the best way
so you don't get mugged or robbed electronically.
all people seem nice when thair after your money.
dont believe any talk. money talks bull s#it walks.
shane |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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There is only one Max dealer in Colorado but this person is not named Robert Stapleton and he is not located in Windsor. This is not good news. Sad but true, the greatest website on the internet (eBay), has been ruined by low life scammers.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying out of state. I did it when I bought my first Max years ago. Bill you said this person claimed to be a dealer. One quick toll free call to RI would have let you know this person was dishonest. I actually just looked it up on the dealer locator on RI's web site. I think it's safe to say any dealer backed by RI will send you what you pay for. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience while trying to join the greatest sport on the planet. |
Big Wolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Hello Troy,
Its not even about the money for me, although it would be nice to at least cover some advertising costs for the year and possibly make a dollar! Even if it means that I only sell a half dozen machines a year, I intend to spend the proper amount of quality time with people to get them outfitted correctly to fit their applications, and also make sure they know how to properly maintain and take care of their machines. And over the course of time build a solid reputation and service base of customers.
This I beleive is very doable, and it can be done with out the need to bash or bad mouth any other products out there. |
Joseph Kral (Mnjoe)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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You have to watch E-bay. I'm going thru with a farm tractor sale with a guy from Kansas. Feedback was great, talked on the phone a few times, won the bid and mailed him payment. I wanted to drive down to him (8 Hrs) and check out the deal. He talked me out of it. He kept giving excuses why he could not deliver. Then I found an Allis Tractor web site like this one. That's when I found out they truth. Right now there is 23 of us ready to testify in court. He kept telling us (one at a time) that he would file for bankruptcy. One guy is out $11,000 and he was a local person. Go to E-bay and use the SEARCH and fill in the seller vibrob1...check his feedback and the feedback of his buyers. You can get e-mail addtresses from the CONTACT box. This is how I found a few people for our problem seller. I bought my 2000 Max IV on E-bay. Used machine with 25HP,tracks, extra tires,rollbar, winch,top,side curtains,heated throttle, only thing missing was a blade. Only 20 hours.. the guy had to many toys. Paid 1/2 of new. Get in touch with the LAW with your problem |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Bill, Sorry to hear of your uneasiness. From checking his ebay listing, I think you are probably OK. Have you checked the phone company listings for his residence and home phone? I've bought quite a lot from ebay (never sold yet) and I have always gotten my product (maybe I'm just lucky) and have basically been satisfied with all transactions. Where you didn't actually go through ebay, you're maybe not quite on as firm of ground, but your seller has done a lot on ebay.
It's funny how this thread has changed topic.
Gary, yes, selling max is a low margin game and you will be lucky to recoup your advertising costs - but don't plan on being paid for your time. Internet web sites advertising $100 over dealer cost and others offering "to negotiate" as well as mine stating if I choose that "I will not be under-sold" guarantee that good deals will be had by buyers who use the internet. The important thing about paying for a product up front is to feel confident that who you are dealing with is honest. You must have dealer planned your machines, because RI does not ship until the machines are paid for in full. I don't mean to tell you how to run your business, but if you ship a machine to someone in Idaho, COD and he changes his mind or has trouble getting the truck to come to his house, you might just have a machine to get back to you at your expense. I still believe most people are honest, but after being in business most of my life, I have been disappointed a time or two. I guarantee you that when you are working on a very small margin basically just to be a nice guy, the last thing you want is to put your capital at risk.
Troy, I don't think you should call the kettle black. When I sold that machine to Brandon, I tried real hard to get him to buy the machine that you had showed to him. I told him that anything he though was wrong was easily fixed. That was a case of you not having what the customer wanted. Brandon did his homework and he worked himself a good deal. You guys have undercut me many times, but the only one that bothered me was the one to Hardin, MT (to the county for mosquito control). I had spent a lot of time with two demonstrations - they are 200 miles or so away from me and it took a day each time. Yeah, my price was not my usual cut rate and you had no trouble bettering me. That's business! You kind of took advantage on at least one Wyoming deal,too. And tried real hard to sell a machine to a fellow here in Belgrade. Are you still selling for $100 over cost?
Longevity in the business is what the buyer should look for if they want to feel comfortable and confident the deal will go as they expect. There have been a lot of dealers come and go since I have been marketing the max and I bet there are a lot more that come and go before I retire completely. I can't speak for anyone else, but anyone buying from me can rest assured that the deal will go just as stated - at least from my end. |
Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Fred, I never said you was the one that sold a Max for $25 over dealer cost. I didn't say that you also tried to do it 2 other times to local guys around me. But since you want to make it public business, you try to do it all the time to all Max dealers. You are one of, if not the worst dealer that will under cut another dealer. As far as I sell for $100 over cost, I will not do that and have never done it. I don't sell atv's that cheap to my sub-dealers. They buy for 5% over dealer cost. I only have sub-dealers in areas that don't have a dealer. Yes I will negotiate with the Customer and will do what I can to get a sale. If you look on my website, I have MSRP as far as my prices. I do not put lower prices on my site, even though I will sell for under the MSRP price.
Now my dealer cost on these atv's might be a little lower then your cost because I buy in bulk, when RI has a sale to the dealers and pay for them in cash, to get the cash discount. Thats good business. Why do you think Wal-Mart can sell some items for much less then other stores can? They buy in bulk and get a better price so they can sell for less with the same or more profit margin. That is how you grow in business.
Now with that said, I will never try to sell an atv or any other product that I sale low enough that another dealer in his/her area can't match it and still make a profit. I really do wish RI would make all dealers have to sell the ATV's for the same price like ODG does. That way we all can make nice profits per sale and we won't have dealers like you and other trying to low ball us.
Oh by the way Fred, when we do sell an atv in an area of another dealer, we do let RI know and if they say don't do it, then we will not. That way, that dealer will get their $250 from us. Which sucks if we make the sale and the dealer will not work with a person, they still get $250 for doing nothing. Yes Fred, we have sold atv's 5 miles from a dealer when the dealer would not let a person have a demo ride or might even have a demo or Max for a person to even look at. That person will still get $250 which I think is wrong, but that is how RI wants it. |
Big Wolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Fred, I have watched and read a lot of your message posts, and you are a likable person. From what little time that I have watched you here, I consider you a national treasure, and an excellent spokesman for the product brand name. I have seen this same ethical value and honesty in several businesses that I have dealt with over the years, and that is what I strive for also.
I have already decided what my bottom line costs will be, and I will not go below that bottom line, even if it means I only sell a few units each year. The only way that I will break or go below that bottom line is if the factory needs units moved to keep the ball rolling.
I will not sell a unit to any one out side of my advertised area and region, I will refer them on to a dealer or directly to the factory when they are out side my area. The same thing will apply to my general local area, even though I am advertising in a broad area of my state and region, I will refer them on to a dealer closer to them. I have spoken with one dealer in our state to far, and made a gentlemans aggreement, and plan to do the same with others, the only unanswered question is, will they follow through and do the same. I have also spoken with a few out of state dealers and made the same offer to them, but none have even bothered to provide a straight up answer back.
Again, if you are too busy watching the internet to turn a deal, then get real boys. You are not trying hard enough and not working hard enough to find new and better ways to reach out to the customers in your own area and region. And you are not even trying to develop your self into a long term full service dealer either.
Last and final shot accross the bow boys. Its not hard to figure out which dealers are doing what via the internet, way out of their regions and areas. Let me give you a tip, just reach down and grad those socks and pull real hard, and pull yourselves back up to a higher level of doing business with integrity, honesty and building trust. You may be fooling a few poeple here and there, but the vast majority of people will not go along with paying a large amount of their hard earned money up front, to some one they do not even know, and have a machine drop shipped or parachuted to their front door. And I will not go along with or advise they do that! If a person is too far for me to hand deliver a machine in person, then I will not sell it to them! |
Bill cripe (Bcripe)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Well I have done alot of research. I contacted ebay buyers whom bought from him on ebay and everything sounds legit. One guy from Denver drove up to his warehouse to buy a quad and has met him and his son that he mentions in his ebay ads. They all think he is an honest guy. One guy even got his personal information for me.
Robert had told me that he had sold his house and was living in his mountain cabin (which has no cell reception according to Robert) at 9500 feet on some mountain that I cannot remember the name.
So the ebay information was not really current. The home number has been disconnected and weld county records indicate that somebody else owns the house. I have tried to call the current owners but have been unsuccessful at this point. I have learned his age and that he is married (Vicky) and her age. I did call RI and he is not a dealer but has bought repos from RI. I guess maybe he didnt actually say that he is a dealer but that he had turned about 50 over the years. He was very very knowledgeable about these machines when I spoke to him initially. He knew about hollow axles only on the 450T, O-ring chains, tires, rims, etc. I think he buys repo and "going out of business" auction ATVs and resells them.
Hopefully I am OK. I will try to contact con-way to find out if they have a shipment in my name today. I figure Ill give it until Tuesday.
There is ALOT of personal information that can be obtained free through the internet. For a few bucks, you can find out virtually anything about somebody. Pretty scary. |
Big Wolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Hey Max Dealers,
By the way that show listing that the Argo guys put on the Route 6x6 Events board is nothing short of very impressive, and that list is only a snap shot for shows through March of 2004.
Great job Argo Dealers and Distributors, just by publishing that list alone, you will create a major impact, as how as people percieve your companies, credibility, and products as ATV manufacturer and suppliers.
What is every one else doing this year for shows and events to promote the Max products in your respective dealer areas? I do not see any Max dealers doing the same. For that matter what is every one doing right now for advertising in your own areas? I would suspect minimun or nothing at all, other than lounging on the internet, waiting for some one to say, "hey I am new at this thing and looking for a new machine, does any one know where I can get one at"! And then the sharks swim in for the kill, to try and make a lousy $25 or $100 on a sale.
In between the time frames of me sitting down and typing out these message posting yesterday and today, I have been out to Devils Lake just south west of Michigan International Speed Way, and South down to Lake Erie, to place Ad fliers on peoples windshields and taking a ride out on the ice a few times with my Max machine, to talk to ice fisherman, and give them Ad Fliers, and on occasion a ride in or out. And we are talking about hundreds and hundreds of ice fisherman and Ad fliers! Looking from the shore area at the launch sites, it looks like small cities of ice fishing shelters for miles.
Oh darn, I forgot to include all the out of state dealers web site and e-mail addresses on my color Ad fliers. Well it looks like I will need to correct that problem, and go back out again and place some new ones with that information included, just so they can contact the out of state boys and buy a machine for $25 or $100 bucks over cost.
If you are busy lounging around on the internet selling 20 to 40 machines in every one elses back yard, just imagine the sales potential that you could have if you figure out how to unlock the potential in your owm area's.
And if you do not have enough cash to do a few shows, and get out and do some real advertising and sales calls in the real world, then perhaps you should just close up shop. If you continue to sell machines at $100 over cost, the you will not be able to cover the cost to do some actual effective advertising.
It is bad enough when you have to deal with a used car sales lot, that knows nothing about the machine they decided to take on and sell. And the best sales pitch you get out of them is, "yep it sure is nice, its got six wheels and it floats". I have experienced this exact thing first hand a couple of times.
I may be the new kid on the block as a dealer, but I will gladly bust any Max dealer gonan's over this subject any time! |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Well Troy, There is at least one web site that has prices at $100 over dealer cost (he has posted on this forum) and if you do not match his prices, I apologize.. You forget that I have been a dealer longer than most present dealers and that I was the first dealer on the internet. I have been on the web longer than Route6x6 and guess I was flattered when so many web sites closely resembled my web site structure.
I know all about the cash discounts and buying in bulk - I used to buy ten machines at a time to get a semi load to cut the cost of freight (to be able to offer a better deal to my customers, just like Wal-Mart). My deals are all structured over dealer cost, not my cost. Any dealer incentives are just that. Knowing how long it takes for people to make up their minds and make a purchase, most likely any special deal will be over before the buyer decides to buy (personally, nothing turns me off quicker than for a salesman to tell me I have just so long to make the deal or the deals off - I'm out the door in a flash). Of course if a deal is in progress when the order comes in, I pass it on. I have yet to sell someone a max - I only help them buy when they are good and ready.
We all know what the structure is when we take on our dealerships. I have seem dealer margins increase substantially since I have been a dealer - that is part of the reason I sell for a lower price. When I started, there was only about a $300 difference between what the factory sold them at retail for and what I bought them for. When they had special sales, it was closer than that. Their dealer program is much improved at the present. I sell the machines because I like them and think there should be more in use; most people like to have someone to call and won't buy without being able to try them out first. I provide that service for those who want to come to my place. I used to run all over Montana, Wyoming and Idaho showing machines, but needless to say with the internet completion making it a very small profit business (and me losing a few sales I had much invested in), I have quit doing that. I will continue to quote machines at "X" dollars over dealer cost and encourage all to deal with their local dealer (Yes, the local dealer might have to cut his markup) and I will continue to offer a better deal if someone sends me a dealer quote that I think is a "little high". And If any machine goes to Montana, I will do almost anything to ensure that I make the sale. If I have to go below my established "off premise" sale price to match a cut throat deal, it is without service and the machine will be shipped straight to them for them to prep. I usually deliver all my machines and provide hands on instruction in how to drive and service. All my in state customers are offered a "with me" price or a "on your own" price.
I think the problem facing all of us selling to the public is that most people want a good deal and think those in business are making a killing. Profit is a dirty word. They see store sales with 50 and 60 percent off and think we double our price like many retailers do. When a company like Wal-mart (or a max dealer like me) sell at a low margin, the competition wants more. The public sets the price in this country and they no longer want to pay for high labor, pension funds, environmental fixes, property taxes, personal financial needs or etc. There are a lot of Max on the market and we have been through a recession. When there are so many Max selling on ebay at 1/2 or less of dealer cost, we dealers can't expect to have much new business. When dealers come in and go out and sacrifice their inventory, it makes it hard on those of us who wish to continue in the business.
I don't know what the answers are, but I know we will all continue with our business as we see fit until we decide we no longer "want to do that". I guess "free enterprise" is kind of like "freedom" - it really isn't free. |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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I won't get involved with the Fred vs. Troy (even though I seem to be in the center already) but there are a few things I would like to point out. A Max dealership is a very low volume (should I say LOW again?) business. If you are not in it for the love of the vehicle, you are in it for the wrong reason. I do think the dealer structure needs work. It would be difficult for RI to force dealers to stock even two machines. They have only about 120 dealers in the US and I know 40 or more would drop out right off the bat if this rule was enforced. This would mean even fewer dealers and less promotion of the vehicle. Not a good situation with already poor sales. When dealers don't have to stock machines, you run into problems with a Florida dealer selling a machine in Oregon for $100. I personally have no interest in doing this. The last three machines I stocked all found new homes out of my state of Missouri. They were in three separate states but I delivered each one of them at no extra charge. I gave a great price, had lots of fun meeting the proud new owners, and didn't get in a fight with any other dealers. Buying machines up front and keeping them in stock is the only way to do this. I can't sell apples from an empty wagon. RI gives very good prices when you buy multiple vehicles and this is what dealers should do to turn a profit while giving the customer an unbeatable price. When I put $20,000 on the line I expect some return.
I'm with Big Wolf about undercutting other dealers. I avoid it if at all possible by stocking machines. I'll make a long story short here. You think one dealer undercutting another is bad? I was contacted by a man in CT interested in the 18hp Max IV that I had in stock. I talked to him for a half hour and had him completely sold on the machine and I knew he was a buyer. There are no dealers in CT. I offered him a great deal on my in stock machine shipped to him, or a new one shipped from the factory. You'll never guess what happened and I hope this brings some dealers together. He didn't buy anything from me. Why not? The FACTORY undercut my price and sold to him at dealer cost. |
Big Wolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Brandon hit it right on the head! You cant expect any dealer to want to buy and stock units and then have this exact problem going on with the factory and other dealers. I could buy a dozen units at a time and place them in show rooms of business owners that I know very well, and probably sell and provide tremendous exposure for the products. But I will not do that, there is not nearly enough incentive and structured written contracts or aggreements to do any thing like that. The way they currently operate the dealership network structure, seems to closely resemble the structure of a pyramid scheme like Amway or some thing similar.
I also think that the Max and Argo products are both very marketable brand names, with Argo commanding a strong lead in that arena well ahead of the Max products. I do not think it is necessary to harp on or go after the Argo products, and get all hung up in the comparison issues between the two. Its ok to talk about the differential and non-differential transmission concepts, but not to an unhealthy level.
The real competition and challenge as I see it, is to keep going after the mind set and logic of those that buy 4x4 quads and snow mobiles. And to get some better and more available financing structures in place, so people can easily buy new machines. And also continue to push both Argo and R.I./Max to continue improving their products, with new features and inovations, and find ways to reduce costs and be even more efficient at what they produce.
It would also be nice if some one would organize and meet with all the dealers periodically, at some chosen location, so we can all get together and discuss marketing and sales strategies and ideas to improve the entire dealership network. Until that happens it will continue to be a free for all and pyramid type set up.
Lets face reality, they are too small of a company to cover the cost to do any kind of successful national advertising plan. But if they would at least try to organize us, and draw on and leverage each of our unique capabilities, then they and we could mount a major and effective advertising plan.
I would not settle for being compared to a Walmart, these brand names Argo and Max could be taken to a level and compared to and thought of like Harley Davidson, or any of the big recognized brand names, that are still considered small companies. |
Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Well,
This post really took a left turn. I think everyone has a bunch of great ideas for what dealers should do. For the most part, I think most dealers, Max or Argo are good dealers. There are a few that, well shouldn't be dealers.
Big Wolf, you talked about getting together and everyone talk about marketing and sales strategies, I have rides during the year and I ask all dealers to come and bring their new customers with them. Come to some of my rides and if we can get some other dealers, to show up, we can have that talk and ride together at the same time. I have never had a max dealer come to my rides. I will have Brandon this year if he comes now that he is a dealer. Brandon, you are not the only one that got under cut by RI. We have a few times ourselves.
As for as what I do marketing these atvs, I do 3 or 4 outdoor/boating/fishing shows a year. Just did one last week, 3rd to the 8th. I also have rides during the year. I belong to hunting/fishing clubs and promote them there. I have adds in local papers from time to time. I have also a few times a year, paid someone to walk and hand out fliers in parking lots of the big shopping centers in my area. I am part sponsor of the minor league hockey team and minor league baseball team in my area. As being a small sponsor, I get to promote my atv's before, during, and after some games. I also donate my time and atv's to the FBI, local/federal police dept, and Fire depts. We help them find missing people, find plane crashes that can't be gotten to by foot or 4x4's, we helped a people that have fallen in fozen ponds, etc. Anyting that our wonderfull atv's can do that can help them better.
Brandon, you are not in the middle of Fred and I. We just had a misunderstanding. I think Fred thought I was another dealer and we have talked by email and as far as I am concern, we have no hard feelings toward each other. I will be the first to say, I don't agree with Fred all the time, but I think he is also one of the most helpfull people on this board, and he does have a lot of good stuff to say. |
Big Wolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Bill,
Sorry about side tracking the discussion topic and airing out our laundry around and during your time of crisis and frustration. If the guy does check out then you should see your machine some time this week. If it does not, then a road trip would be in order. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Gary,
I appreciate the kind words and I applaud your efforts. Maybe in your area, your approach will work. It won't in Montana. Montana is a huge state and we have about 400,000 people. In my first two years, I spent over $20,000 in advertising. It will take me thirty years of max sales to come close to getting that back. I've done the shows, I've done the paid ads, I've pounded the pavement and I've burned up the phone lines. Still most of the people I talk to have never heard of a max and if they have, they think we still offer the 1970's version.
I like your idea of a dealer conference. Maybe with the economy improving, we will all be in a better mood, assuming of course that the American public is smart enough not to screw everything up in November. |
Jim Stiver - Western PA MAX Dealer (Viper)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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When I first started this business, I was using a profit margin of $750-$800 per unit with no results. Then I dropped it to $500, then to $250 before I started to make any sales. Then,I have lost sales to other dealers by quoting prices with only a $200 margin. That is when I found that the only way that I was going to make any sales was to sell at $100 over cost. I did not do this by choice!! I put out $20,000 for my initial shipment of machines (only to find out that some dealers have been able to circumvent this initial requirement,not upset at them, just myself for not negotiating the same deal) and another $30,000 for my building and tools. My local advertising was costing me an additional $500.00 per month with little result. My first sale came from a gentleman from Ohio who presented me with a coupon enabling him to purchase a new machine at more than $1000 below dealer cost. After contacting R.I., I was informed that I could either honor the coupon and they would pay me $500 and invoice me the sale price or I could just refer them back to the company. I made the sale, but I was still left with $20,000 of my own inventory. I then realized that I was not only in competition with other dealers, but was also in competition with the factory. After looking at my advertising expenses vs. my gross profit, it looked pathetic, that is when I turned to the internet to advertise my machines. Unfortunately it is the only way that I have found to be "profitable". I do not get upset when I lose out to another dealer or the factory, because I realize that it is just business. I am the General Manager of a new car dealership and with 30 years of experience, have found this business no different than the automobile business. You can either give up or you can stick it out and do what you can to make sales in order to stay in business. I do agree with the majority of other Max dealers who post on this board, that I wish that our dealer network operated more like the Argo dealer network in order to protect our territories and make us a bit more profitable, but until then I will have to price my machines at a margin that will continue to make me sales. I will neither bash nor insult any of my fellow Max Dealers on this forum, because I know that we are all doing what we have to do to in order to survive, but until something is done by the manufacturer to regulate the dealer body, these type of practices will continue.
My 2 Cents,
Jim |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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well max dealers,
here's the problem in australia,
we don't have a dealer , we have to buy second hand over e-bay and risk what happened above or
deal direct with R.I. them selves.
i asked R.I. about pricing and they promptly sent a panflet , they also asked me if i want to be a dealer in au (which i declined, i don't know nothing about vehicle sales i work as a delivery driver / s#it kicker)
they said something like "the prices quoted are the same in au. as in america "
this is pretty vaige when you consider things like:
the exchange rate a $us 10.000 max4 in usd would convert to aprox: $ au 14.000 max4 in aust.dollars
and does that mean i pay no shipping costs ( i did ask forthe shipping cost if there was no dealer in aust.
then who services it???
where do i get parts???
so now i'm considering an argo they have allmost free rain here exept for quads and polaris 6x6 ranger john deere gator, and some farmers have actully herd of them!!!
or buying argo parts and making my own engine, gear box, frame and body
p.s i have only seen a second hand argo 8x8 for sale 6 years ago, i'm glad i didn't buy it as it was probably worn out and would of turned me of 6x6's not thinking of what it was like when it was new.
my point i can buy an argo tomorrow and only travel 20miles to do so. or
i can risk it all on wire transfur with a con.
you gotta not just think about the sale , but the service.
or i can wait for a max dealer to discover our starved market.
i won't be able to answer this for 3 days (working hard).
shane |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Troy, We are OK. and thank you for the kind words. We are all individuals and just like Jim said we do what we think we have to to keep our business going. Look on the bright side - think of all the happy max owners we make; them knowing they got as good a deal as is possible. We certainly don't have anybody complaining about us "price fixing" - we will never have to worry about a federal inquiry about our business practices.
Shane, The max is a machine that most anybody can maintain and keep going. You can order parts from RI and they will be there in a flash (even to Australia). But if you kind of take care of it, you probably won't need any parts for quite some time. If there are those other people there, you've got engine parts covered and any good mechanic can fix any max problem with his eyes closed. Shipping is a little pricey - about $2600 by air, half that by boat.
As far as building your own, Why? If you can buy a demonstrator max off ebay from some dealer that bailed for 1/2 of dealer cost, you get a proven excellent machine for less than the parts would cost you.
I've said it many times before, but this thread proves it. You get more for your money when you buy a Max. |
Big Wolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Sorry Jim, I did not mean to insult or bash every one about this topic. I am not a sales and marketing person by trade, but I am an avid outdoorsman, and I am definately in tune with what the outdoorsman wants. I try to keep up with the business scene as well as I can, but there is always some thing new to learn every day.
I am just wondering if I do some how manage to open up and tap into the potential that I see, what will be the result. Will it just cause the factory and other out of state dealers to come swooping in for a temporary kill and feast for a few years, or will I be able to grow this into some thing long term. The other choice that I have is just let it lay dormant as it always has been around here.
I do know the factory wants and needs a strong presence here in my area. They cant seem to keep a dealer here interested for very long, and they come and go like I change my shorts. Their approach and tactics here are not affective at all. The business owners that I talk to, have recieved the mailed dealer offers from both R.I. and Argo, year after year after year, and most all of them say they just toss them in the garbage can and blow it off. The attitude here is "been there and done that before, and it aint worth it".
I knew much of this long before I decided to jump in a delaer, as I mentioned before, I could have been an Argo dealer long ago, even before any of our current local dealers and distributor were here. I did not let them push a bunch of machines off on me, just so they could make a quick multi unit sale and run off and hide. I did not buy into it, instead we mutally aggreed to try a different approach, which is what I am currently folding out in stages.
The first and most important to me, was to develop and launch a new web site in conjuction with launching the first phase of the Ad flier campaign. The Ad fliers are meant to refer people back to the web site to research the product at their leisure, and phone numbers and e-mail address if they are interested. I have visited about 80 to 100 of our local out-of-doors sporting goods stores, out as far a 60 to 80 miles in all directions, including tackle and bait shops, and gun shops, a few other key strategic locations, where I have been allowed to put up permanent laminated color fliers, and place loose fliers on the counters also.
I have just about covered the entire western shore line of Lake Erie, the Detroit River and Lake St. Clair. There are still many more places that I need to get too, and that will happen as time goes on. I also hunt, fish and camp at different times and seasons through out the entire year, so I am always afield some where in North America.
My next phases are already being rolled out, which is real time in the field show and tell, and small grass roots type club shows, that are much less expensive compared to the big expensive type shows. The other real important thing is to have a place for people to test drive a machine, and I have that directly behind where I live, a couple of hundred acres right in the middle of the city. And I also have a small farm west of the city, and we have my parents home stead and farm a little farther west of my place also. Every one always asks the question, "do you have a machine and can they test drive one"!
And the last item, there are several businesses that I know well, where I could place machines on display in a show room type environment, and they do keep asking me to bring some machines into their places. I do not plan to do that for a while, although I would like to, I am not buying into tossing my cash into a cut throat type loosing venture so quickly.
If it works out that will be great, if it does not work out, at least I will have given it my best shot, and not lost my shirt in the process! If and when the day arrives that this is without question a loosing cause, then I will re-consider my position and make a decision then. If this does not work then nothing will work here! It sure would be nice to see the dealership network structure over hauled completely, so its not a guranteed looser.
Troy, I would be glad to show up some time for your ride events, as long as it is during the summer months, so we can pull the wifes camper along for the trip. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Gary,
Keep at it and don't worry about competition in your territory. You are right and most people want more than just price. You will make lots of good acquaintenances and have lots of fun experiences especially if you give demonstrations. I personally don't care much for the shows, but you will meet a lot of interesting people.
I really think our economy is about to regain its footing and if it does, people will have the interest in (and ability to purchase) our product.
I think you hit the nail on the head that low cost financing is our most important tool that we are lacking. So far I have not been able to even come close to the low cost no cost financing that the quad dealers offer. I have been trying to find a lender that would let me buy down the loans, but nobody seems interested in doing that. A lot of people in my area with the "want" just don't have the means. |
Bill Aras (Blueknightnj)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Tech Talk... Tire Pressure.
I am a 26" wheel fella on a Max IV...
I have been (rough) riding at max pressure in about 8 to 11" of snow. (26lbs)
Regarding recommended tire pressures for different riding conditions, would like to hear what others are doing for their specific riding conditions....Thoughts?
Thanks.
Bill |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Bill, Good idea, time to change the subject. My recommendation is to run as low of pressure as you can and still keep the beads mounted in any and all conditions (all models max). If you have a newer machine with the k-rims (no grove around the lug nut hole), after an initial about six hours use to set the beads good you can go really low, about 1 PSI or so. If you have the old style rims you won't be able to go much below 2.5 PSI.
If you are having bead leak problems, clean up the bead area real well and use only water to lubricate. You can use a good silicone type caulk or one of the new bead sealers on the clean dry bead area to kind of glue the rims to the tires. Some people screw their tires to the rims. I don't like tubes - the first time you spin a rim you will cut off the valve stem.
Even with tracks, never go over about 4PSI. 3 to 3.5 is what the manual suggests. I think that is too much. High PSI in your tires just makes for a rough ride and encourages axle problems. |
Bill Aras (Blueknightnj)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Fred,
Have to take closer look at my rims, I have a 2001 model and not sure about the 26" so not really sure what rims are on board.
So you feel that the lower pressure does not have an effect on traction or handling? Ok worth a try, but to go from the max. setting to that low, hmm, a little skeptical or scared. Perhaps I will bring it down to 10psi and see how it runs.
Thanks.
Bill |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Bill, With a 2001, they should be k-rims. Assuming you have Dico, Titan or Goodyear tires, the maximum pressure should only be 20 PSI and that is only for bead setting purposes. I'm surprised they haven't blown out being that high. Maxiumum using pressure is about 5. I run my old style rims at 2.25 to 2.5. You will find traction much better with low pressure and you won't believe how smooth the ride is. With 26 PSI you might as well have steel wheels. By 26" wheel, I am assuming you mean 26" tire on a 12" rim. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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fred,
thanks for info, well that's good to know parts are avalible.
will max sell parts , i like max parts but you don't build a vehicle the size i want(slightly bigger than argo, but light).
i want to build my own to put an engine of my own design in.
it will be light, reliable, multi-fuel including wood-steam, like a steam engine turbine like what you have in that top or the range us army tank (i think it's called an m1a1 abrams main battle tank?) well whatever it is it's a very simple and reliable type of engine.
if i'm in the bush and run out of fuel i can use wood. steam turbines don't meed a battery or electrics to start them.
and a transmission of mine that can counter rotate that isn't hydrolic.
so now you know why i want to build my own.
still looking at my options.
won't have the money till the end of 2004.
buying of e-bay:
don't like any payment system exept cash and money order like cheques , for security reasons.
making heaps at the moment but i'm saving for a new car allso.
shane |
Attex Bob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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10 PSI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy schmucomins!!!!!! Oh my aching back!!!!!! Bill lower that puppy down!! |
Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Bill, don't worry about you psi. I would drop it down to 4psi at most. I feel the 26" tires shouldn't never have more then 5 or 6psi in the tires at the most.
Now you didn't say and I am sure that Fred took it for granted that you have the factory 26" tire. If not, then tell us what type of tire you have on.
The lower tire pressure you have will give you a bigger foot print. Bigger foot print will give you more traction. Hope that helps you out some Bill. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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fred,
what do k rims look like, are there pics????
is it true that with bead locks you don't need any air pressure at all????
this would be the ideal set up.
bill,
no one on this board runs more than 4psi in thair tyres,
the tyres are used for suspension.
hows ya back???
some come off thair rims, but most run near 4 when bran new then lower it and the tyres "stick" and won't spin.
some put short screws in the tyre ( thru a holes drilled in rim ) short enough to not go throu and lose air, this stops spinning.
or glue it in.
shane |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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bill,
forgot to say with lower pressure 3.5psi the tyres sort or wrap around the terrain.
4x4 tyres run at 4times + the pressure to take
the weight,
and bump over rocks , or push through soft dirt / sand, they push through to get grip instead of going softly over.
that's why 4x4's get bogged easy and cause soil erosion .
remember you'r not in a 2ton 4x4 now!
shane |
Bill Aras (Blueknightnj)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Thank you all for the fantastic input as to air pressure on my 26" tires. I will be lowering them this weekend. Who knows I may be able to go through even deeper snow than 12 inches now!
To answer some of the questions posted;
1. Yes My Back did hurt, but the pain traveled down to my kidneys. Back is fine now.
2. Suspension, What suspension?
3. Perhaps this can explain why one of my teeth cracked 5 months ago.
Thanks again everyone.
Bill |
Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Shane,
Yes you can run no air with bead locks. If you have the K-rims you can run with no air in them also. I normally run just 1 to 1 1/2psi in the corner tires and no air in the middle tires. I have had the valve stem get pulled out on the right front tire in the beginning of a 2 day ride. No air at all since there was a hold where the valve stem use to be. rode hard for both days and never lost a bead. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Shane, K-rims look just like regular rims. The face is completely flat without the indention around the lug nut holes and the grove that holds the bead is more pronounced. The 12" rim does not have slots in the inner part of the wheel as the old style rim has. All the rims on Recreatives' web site are k-rims. Some peole run with no air, but I wouldn't reccommend doing that, at least not on purpose all the time (I'd have at least 1 PSI in them). I'm sure if one or two lost all their air on an outing that the chances are real good the tire would stay mounted until you got home. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Bill, you will like lower air in your tires, but depending on snow consistency, you are at your limit of 11/12". When the snow is between being hard enough to completely hold you up and squashing enough to allow your belly pan to slide over you are apt to high center. If you will enter troublesome situations slowly, you will be able to back out. If you try to bust through you will most likely have to dig, push or winch. |
Bill cripe (Bcripe)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Well I still havent heard from Robert Stapleton so I filed a complaint with the internet fraud complaint center at www.ifccfbi.gov. I am in the process of getting a detailed background report on Mr. Stapleton from one of these people search type places. Once I have all of that information I plan to contact local police. This is a real bummer. I was really looking forward to getting a max. |
Bill Aras (Blueknightnj)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Regarding Filing a IFCC complaint...
Listen to me, file a complaint with your local law enforcement agency or Police Department.
Contact me OFF LIST or give me phone number I can provide you some further guidance in this matter if you would like. But IFCC takes a long time to run their course (until it gets where it needs to go). So get your legal ducks in a row and a report filed.
Just trying to help you and prevent others from getting ripped off.
BlueKnightNJ@prodigy.net
Bill |
Bill Aras (Blueknightnj)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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SNOW....
Yes, I understand that depending on the snow consistancy, depth and height of Max makes all the differnce of how deep we go a Max'n.
I have found that 11" is a safe fun.
Does anyone know if they make a snow track for us 26" wheel folks or there is just not enough room for it?
Thanks
bill |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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fred ,
thanks good to know seems like max found a way to do away with the need for bead locks.
can you get 9" k-rims???
so is it safe to assume all max's for sale from dealers are k-rim equipped??
once again fred has came through with new advice to us ,
i never knew how to get throu deep snow that wouldn't support you, i gessed you would just go fast and crash throu the deep bits depending on the snow being slippery enough to let you slip past the deep bits but i was wrong, thanks fred this stuff benifits more people than the one just asking lots of people read it especilly new owners.
did you know you were driving with no valve?
well i guess if you did you couldn't fix it imagine searching for that in the bush.
shane |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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bill a,
suspension, well with 10psi your's would be bouncing around like a moon buggy,
if the pain has gone from your back to your kidneys you can drownit with beer, lol.
the tyres when run at less than 4psi will act like suspension ( lots of discussions about the need for real suspension on r6x6 board).
real suspension will almost double the weight so better of without ( search topic: low psi / psi on ground) unless you don't need to go in deep mud.
shane |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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bill c,
dont' wait act fast before the crook leaves the country.
the longer you wait the less chance you have, bad luck lesson lerned.
shane |
Big Wolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Looking at the clearance area between the wheel and the body, with 26 inch Super Terra Grip tires, it looks like there is not much room left to install and run tracks. If you can drop down to a 25 inch tire, then I would say there is a better chance to run tracks.
Tom and Les over at Superior All Season ATV's have been making up their own rubber tracks for quite a while as I understand it, and they look almost identical to the R.I. rubber tracks. I spoke briefly with Les about possibly making up some rubber tracks for a couple of Argo guys that have called me recently. I would say they can make up a nice set of all season rubber tracks for any one, as long as you can provide the belt length dimensions that you need. I belive their belts are spliced so if they were made too long, you can always cut down the length on a custom track job.
A fellow here right around the corner from me has been running a set of their made up tracks since October 2001, for all season usage, and his tracks work and run just fine.
The belt they use is the same brand as what R.I. uses Kimpex brand, kevlar reinforced, and they have a company make up the aluminum wheel alignment/retainers, that look just like the ones R.I. uses.
Any one interested, you would need to contact Tom or Les to discuss it with them directly. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Bill A., Not enough room for tracks over the 26" tires. Gotta drop to the 21" rawhide for tracks.
Shane, The last I was told, No 9" k-rim and none planned, unfortunately. A 15" wide tire on a 9" k-rim would be the ideal setup in my opinion. I'd say all current model new Max have the k-rim. There might be other dealers besides me that have a few new machines that were manufactured before the K-rim was on everything (to clarify, I have a few brand new, never used 1995 and 1996 machines in my carry over inventory that have old style rims) or for some reason might have had sets of tires on the old style rims that they put on a new machine to upgrade from standard tires. |
Big Wolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Hey Fred,
Try checking into some of these refinancing.com outfits. They seem to have tons of cash available, and are constantly badgering every one to refinance, and roll credit card dept and also borrow cash from the refinance deals.
There must be a point in time when they will need to turn their attention to other ways to get people to borrow more cash. Financing ATV's may be some thing for them to check out! |
Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Shane,
I knew that the valve was gone 15 mins into the weekend ride. Brandon from here,I think was the one that told be about it being gone. I figured that I would ride until I lost a tire, but it never happen. |
Bill Aras (Blueknightnj)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Thanks Shane and all for the input on "Pressure".
Drowning pain in beer has been a world renoun method and should be a part of a Dr.'s treatment more often than not.
Now if we ever have a 6x6 meet. I suggest each member that shows up, besides bringing their 6 wheelers...each should bring a case of beer from their respected areas of the world. |
Bill cripe (Bcripe)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Well, Robert Stapleton has resurfaced. Its a long story but sounds legit and he has called me three times since yesterday. He is shipping the machine today and is going to get me a tracking number today. Looks like its all going to work out and Ill have a Max soon!
BC |
Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Now that is great news Bill. Let us know when you get it. You will love it. |
bigkodiak
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Bill
Glad to hear that things will work out for you. It must be one heck of an excuse in order to you continue the deal
Russ |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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blueknightnj
hell at most rides i have bin to they already do bring a case of beer along,
myself i just suffer the back pain, cause i make mistakes fast enoph without alcohol! |
Bill Aras (Blueknightnj)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Davidrrrd:
Sounds good to me! Contact me off list we can discuss riding, beer-ing and better weather ahead.
Bill (BlueKnightNJ)
BlueKnightNJ@prodigy.net |
ojimmyc
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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HI BILL,
JUST SO HAPPENS I LIVE IN DENVER, CO. THAT'S ABOUT 50 MILES FROM WINDSOR. IF YOU DON'T HEAR SOMETHING SOON FROM THAT GUY, LET ME KNOW AND I'LL GO UP AND HAVE A CHAT WITH HIM. I HATE TO SEE A FELLOW 6X6ER GET SCREWED. BEEN THERE, DONE THAT ON EBAY. GIVE ME ALL THE PARTICULARS AND I'LL CHECK IT OUT FOR YA. OOJIMMYC@AOL.COM THANX, JIM |
Bill cripe (Bcripe)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Well I received the Max yesterday. I am sorry to Robert Stapleton for doubting him. Man am I ever relieved. Looks to be as advertised except the throttle lever crumbled in my hand. I am going to take a closer look at it and see if I can use something from an ATV shop. Do you guys know? I am sure I will have more questions later. Thanks again.
Bill |
Attex Bob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Bill: I don't know about the Max but on my Attex I used a Sea-doo throttle. I was almost a perfect match. Good luck and have fun with your new Max. |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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I have a Sea-Doo and it does look to be a perfect match for the Max. RI's old throttle was horrible but they have fixed it. The lever mount is now aluminum and looks very nice. You do have to buy a new cable to fit it though. You can't put a new lever on an old cable. I don't know the price of a Sea-Doo lever. Might want to call a local dealer and see what that would cost you. A new Max lever is $30.05 and a standard (non-heated) cable is $31.55. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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troy (midwestatv), fred, others,
thanks for info sorry for late reply.
working to much to talk much.
bill good to hear you got max ,
sorry to robert for dout. |
Norm Howard (Argobro)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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I was hoping someone could help me out, When I drive my 1984 Argo 8x8 I/C I keep hearing these loud popping noises coming from the floor pan area. It happens with or without the tracks on. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet. I'm thinking sprockets,chains,seized chain link. It happens while driving straight & turning, a little more frequent when turning. The noise also seems to move from front to rear of the machine. Any ideas? |
masteratver
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Bill
Our Richard of Route6x6 and Richard Relics has those throttles too, you need
to keep him im mind as he will save you money on your
parts, I restored a MAX IV he saved me over 850$ as I kept
track of it. Hope you enjoy your machine, I am happy your
cheap deal worked out well, Does this guy have any more machines?
Masteratver Bill |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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norm(argobro)
yah you hit it on the head, it's chains and sprokets makein the noise, this noise denot'es damaging slipedge of chain over the sproket teath, fix it soon! |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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bill c,
i was just thinking,
no wonder robert finally gave you the max , if you can crush a throttle and it crumbles in your hand. . . he he , lol.
good to hear you got the max and sorry to rob for douting him he must really live out in nowhere tobe uncontactable for days.
bill a, and others
don't wait for me to bring you beer i won't be there for a while.
yeah doctors should prescribe beer drink it for the vitamins, lol
you should be able to get australian beer ordered in, i recommend coopers pale ale ( it's likehome brew) or a darwin stubby it's like about 1.5 gallons (my conversion from metric 2litres in metric).
shane |
Argobro (Argobro)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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Dave Berger, Thanks for the reply.I think that it is time to replace all the chains,& sprockets. I am trying to find out if I can upgrade my machine to the splined axles & sprockets that are used on the 1991 & later machines. Do you know if this is possible. Those damn shear pins are a pain in the ass. Thanks again, Norm. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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im not expert enoph on argo's to say for shur on upgradeability however it's posable your sprokets are still ok,
give them a good look see first befor ordering new parts, the chains strech out first, and if chainged before they slip for verry long the sprokets may well be ok,
it'l all depend on how long chains have bin overstreched, if there only loose you can often remove 1 link from chain to get by, but this promotes sproket wair, look at groves between points and the points, are the points strait up or do they look like there on an angle? any tips broken off the teeth?
some people replace the pins with grade 8 shank bolts no threds doing the work because they become stress risers and caus the bolts to brake at the threds, keep threds outside sproket drive tubes, if you cant find bolts that are a good fit then the shear pins or roll pin's are a better choice, a loose bolt will get cut or broken by hammering due to loose fit, |
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Shop Talk: Tech Tips and Q&A section