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Another Rider (Another_rider)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: | 
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My current Argo Magnum has the single Zirc fitting on the outer flange. As all the bearings in the machine are showing their age, I have decided to replace them. I contacted my Argo dealer for bearings and the oil seal. Evidently oil seals are a thing of the past and no longer available, he stated I needed this 'new flange' with the seal built into it, that had two Zirc fittings on it, one for seal, the other bearing. The price was $28.50 each, well multiply that by 8 and it gets pricey real quick. Also, that the 'new' bearings he carried do not use locking collars. I'd have to drill a dimple in my axle for the set screw. Needless to say I was slightly dumbstruck and did not ask any follow up questions just thanked him for his time and hung up.
I've decided to ask them here;
Anyone have a source for the 1-1/4" inch seals? No, Richard does not have them.
What happens to the 'built in' seal of the new flanges should a bearing fail?
Lastly, should I suck it up and just upgrade the flange, if I do, would the traditional bearing with locking collar, as sold by Richard, still work with the new flange. I realize I am probably way overthinking this, I'm really after some general opinion and input from anyone who may have done the same with an older unit. Thanks. |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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get ready to spend some cash if you want to do it right. I have an 82 argo eight that I just got done restoring. I upgraded to the new outer bearing flanges and the greasable bearings. alot of cash but worth it. the seals in the new flanges should be replaced with each bearing replacement, they come out and are not built in. I did not drill dipples for the set screws and have had no problems, supposidly the magnums did not have these dipples either and it was not a problem. |
mr. tinker
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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http://www.ibtinc.com/bearings/bearing_mf.htm
http://www.bearingheadquarters.com/Locations/locations.html
see if either one of these companies are near you. if you can go to one of these places take your bearings and seals to them and they will be able to get you what you need. |
Wild Dog Machinery
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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This is a two-part reply.
The axle seal housings on your Magnum - if original - are part number 605-68. They have a single oil seal pressed into them and retained by means of crimping, which you may replicate by using a centre punch or narrow flat blade screwdriver. You will see this if you take one off the machine and clean it down.
The new style axle seal housings are part number 605-97 - they supersede and hence replace the old single seal 605-58 - and have two oil seals fitted in a similar manner, except the outboard one is Loctited into its bore rather than crimped.
The part numbers are in your Parts Manual for the original seals. Your Argo dealer should sell you these if you want them. Alternatively you may source them from any seal and bearing shop handling Chicago Rawhide. Give the Argo dealer a go though – don’t go down the path of letting him vanish due to lack of sales – where will he be when you really need him?
There are two options for you in regards to the axle seals. You can replace the old seals in your current housings and keep bouncing along, greasing the seals as often as needed. This will be the cheapest option for you.
Second option is to take you dealer’s advice and upgrade to the twin seal 605-97 housings. They work better and last longer than the old style 605-58. The seals in these housings are replaceable, like the 605-58 seals, and the housing reusable, provided an axle has not damaged it after a bearing failure. Yes, it will be more costly than option one.
A bearing failure will usually wreck the seal/s and sometimes the housing, to answer your question directly. However, as I mentioned, the parts are all replaceable.
When working on someone’s Argo, I usually replace the entire seal assembly – 605-58 with 605-97 if they agree to the cost, otherwise it’s a seal replacement job in the 605-58 – as a unit. If they have a later model with the 605-97, I usually replace these as a unit too. The reason for this being, that when I am charging for my time, the time, and hence cost, to the owner is lessened by replacing a seal housing as a unit, as taking it apart, cleaning it and replacing the seals, works out to marginally more than the whole unit new. As I often work on site, not in my workshop, I am also restricted for time, usually one day. You can only fit so much into a day, after all! |
Wild Dog Machinery
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Part Two
The bearings used in current production Argos are extended inner ring grub screw retained types and making provision for axial restraint is a good idea unless your machine has current style axles with the inboard end retaining bolt. This axial location is only needed at the outboard bearing in older axles, allowing the inner bearing to float with chassis flex. You may be able to get away without it, but if you carry loads and/or do a lot of skids, an axle could walk out of the machine in an extreme case.
I see no reason why the locking collar bearing wouldn’t work with the 605-97, so long as the boundary dimensions are no larger than those of the current style bearing. I have rebuilt Argos that had the locking collar bearing as original using grub screw bearings with no problem and prefer to use them, as they are easier to position correctly on the axle.
Wow, this post is a bit long – sorry if you’ve all gone to sleep!
The choice of what to do is yours. Good luck.
Jim Deering Wild Dog Machinery Australia |
Another Rider (Another_rider)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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argogeru, the cash I don't mind, especially if it's done right!
Was your existing inner flange,of the outer assy., compatible with the new outer flange? I would think the answer is yes.
Did you use the sealed or greasable bearings on the inner bearing assy? Do they make two bolt flanges with zircs on them?
Lastly, the OD of the 1-1/4" bearings, is it 2.44" something? Looking at the bearings at Shoup...
Thanks for the help |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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maybe Wild dog has some old 605 97 take off's that Another rider can re seal |
Aother_Rider
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Wild Dog
Great info, I do really appreciate it! My intent is when I start to tear this machine down, I want everything I need on hand to the best of my ability and finances. I loathe patch jobs, but want to get the most bang for my buck. |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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1, yes
2, greasable inside and out. one flange on the inside bearing has a grease zerk.
3, I have not found a bearing at shoup or anywhere else that is compatible or cheaper than those from my dealer. |
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