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William L Stephenson (William)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: | 
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Need diagnostic advice, guidance. Problem: Right Handle on MaxIV 900T doesn't work. Event Description: 145 hour/1 year old machine, with no previous mechanical trouble, scheduled maintance, was in woods,preparing trails had made series of normal manuevers without difficulty, crossed 30 yard slough without difficulty, climbed out of water,up a ridge, and turned sharply right to continue along ridge. Turned left to cross another slough and on winding trail slightly down hill into water, lost control of right handle. (no big deal there but I can't go on doing 270's) Returned to camp without difficulty. Right side wheels pull equal to left in forward and reverse;on land and in water. No drift either right or left. No catastrophic grinding squealing pops or vibration. Right handle "feels" right. No change or difference in resistance, or travel between right and left handles. Shifts easily into FNR. From dead stop, with right handle maximally back, get momentary pull to right, but lose this as RPM come up.
Anybody with similiar experience with this? Any constructive suggestions? Am I looking at pulling the engine to get adequate access to transmission? Don't have dealer in area. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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William, check the right rear sprockets, I am thinking you might have a disconnect between the two. If not, I think your tranny has a broken output shaft on the right side. It is not that big of a deal to pull the engine, and if it is the tranny output shaft, will have to be done. If you can look under the engine mount frame, the teeth part of the sprocket will not be solid to the shaft - that will mean broken output shaft. |
MaxRules (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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The way I understand William is that he can still drive, forward and reverse, but can't fully lock the right side. Check the adjustments on the steering pistons (on the tranny). If they are too loose this could cause you to be unable to fully engauge the forward brake band. Also make sure all four still have the pins on the U channel piece. The right side forward brake (reverse drive) band is the top piston, right side.
MaxRules |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Brandon, A short discussion about your diagnosis: with only 145 hours on the machine, we know the tranny cannot need adjustment (and I think we can safely assume has not been improperly adjusted). Don't forget the tranny either works or it doesn't (William indicated stick travel is normal and also thinks he has normal power to the right side). We can safely assume it is not a broken band so we have to move on from there. I think there is enough friction on whatever is broken to allow the right side to be powered sometimes (he said he got back to camp), but not under a full power (with the brake applied). I am hoping that the problem is the rear axle sprocket assembly (because that is easier and less costly to fix), but I think when he adjusted the primary chains that he got the right side too tight and it broke the tranny output shaft. I know, the master link is suppose to be the part that breaks, but that isn't necessarily always true.
My guess is also that at this point in time, it will not put power to the right side at all.
William, when you figure out what the problem is, please tell us so we can hone our reasoning. |
MaxRules (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Fred that is what I thought but it seems like there would be some popping or jumping if it was a broken output shaft. Maybe a chain going to the middle or front axle broke or came off the sprocket (too tight or way too loose). If that happened he could still drive fairly well but one tire would not be enough to make a good turn.
Let us know William.
MaxRules |
william
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Re10-12-001 Thank you Fred and Brandon, Thursday I finally had time to get to machine. Took 3 hours to pull engine and transmission. Today inspection reveals top right bolt thru brake lever has excessive travel. Retracts 1 inch more than top left bolt. With hand rotation of input shaft in R N and F get bilaterally symetrical output shaft results from lower bolt retraction and insertion. Upper bolt motion on right has no effect on right output shaft action. From this I assume this is either a broken bolt, broken band or broken band anchor rod. In any event an internal transmission problem. Any advice tips tricks or warnings about transmission repair for the mechanically challenged? I have the Skid Steer Corporation transmission documentation and the illustrations and disassembly procedure looks straight forward but the assembly instructions are rather daunting. In other words I can probably tear it down but can I put it back together? Thanks for interest and any input |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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William, I do not understand what you are saying. If the tranny is out of the machine, you should be able to remove the plunger of any band that is broken simply by putting pressure on the top or bottom of the brake bar. You will need to use a long handled screwdriver to get enough leverage to engage the bands without the steering laterals. It does not make sense that there was not excessive travel with everything hooked up in the machine and now there is excessive travel. Did you check the output sprocket before you removed the tranny? It is always best to know what is wrong before you start trying to fix.
At any rate, the important thing when working on a tranny is to keep your work area clean and to put the parts aside when dismantling so you know what order and what direction they go when they go back together. Unless you are a pretty good mechanic, I would not advise doing the tranny yourself (send it to Richard or RI or to the fellow you bought it from if it might still be under warranty.
If you do work on it yourself and it is a band, you don't have to take very much apart. If it is the output shaft, you pretty much have to dismantle the whole side. |
william
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Not understanding construction of tranny, I didn't force the plunger any more
than the stop at one inch. First I drained and strained all fluid (correct volumn in case) No metal
was found but a few pieces of reddish, crumbly material was found. After opening and seeing
details of mechanism I did pull the band out via the plunger opening. The failure was
delamination of the abrasive surface on the band. Pieces were everywhere on the right side.
Do I need to open the left side? The band wasn't broken which would not have allowed me to
pull the band without opening the case. If you'll remember I would have a weak braking effect
to the right with application of power and full back on the right lateral from dead stop. I'm
assuming this was due to momentary binding by band. While there, I'll replace O rings on
plunger and the gasket between the two case halves. Any thing else? thank you for input. |
william
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Ordered replacement Right inside brake band received yesterday pair of Right and pair of Left bands with note of no charge if parts returned to Recreative Industries. Since I was already in R side, no problem with replacement of those two bands and in fact found that the outer band on right had shown separation of abrasive from metal. But, I'm leary of entering L side if there hasn't been a problem. Has any body else experienced early failure of bands? |
Alan Michaud (Maxuser)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Hello,
Need some fast help if possible.
Cannot reach Recreatives and I am moving the Convertible top from one Max IV to another. Seems a simple task. But, the last club member that mounted the top modified some things for a customer roll bar. I need to get back to original.
Anyone out there have the installation instructions for the Max IV Full Canvas top with side curtains and back window? I just need to know the placement and configuration of the bars. They were changed and reconfigured. I'd rather wait a day or two for a pic or instruction book fax than place it and have to redrill and remount when I realize it is on wrong.
email me any info you have. It would help!
Al |
MaxRules (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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What a great company Recreatives is to give you all four bands for free. From your first message, I assume your Max is even out of warrenty?
Definately replace all the bands. You have brand new bands and it sounds like the old ones are defective. The left side is just like the right, so replacing them shouldn't be a problem.
MaxRules |
Alan Michaud (Maxuser)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Never mind. I got the top on and it seems tight and correct.
No longer a need for the information requested in first post. |
Alan Michaud (Maxuser)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Hey William and others. First off I have the top mentioned in earlier message on and no longer need the instruction sheet.
William, interesting problem. I belong to a snowmobile club and we use a Max IV for grooming the trails in winter. I do the maintenance on the machines and have taken the trannys apart a LOT!
More than I think is justifiable.
Have not seen the band delamination you describe but have had three bands snap at the junction of the eyelet where they connect to brake actuation plunger and the internal band holder.
Right side (opposite clutch) is easier to remove. Left side comes apart by removing one C-clip on internal drive shaft. Then the center plate comes off and the left is from then on just like the right. Since I just finished replacing O-rings the day before yesterday I am fresh on the 'trick' to put them back together.
Is best to reassemble the left half and reinstall the C-clip. Rest left half on the clutch and put the pieces down inside the case half. When you get the C-clip on pull up on the cross shaft and watch the area between left sprocket and clutch. You'll see where the 'play' in shaft seperates. Put some form of shim in there to hold the play. This will make the center piece finally 'click' into place and engage the rod that the break band ends. You'll see what I mean when you try to get the center plate in. Anyway, find something that stays in the groove near clutch and holds that free-play tight.
So, first trick is get the free-play out by putting in the shim. Next, put the right side together balancing the right half on the sprocket. Leave the right side on the bench and lift the left side up and onto the right half. Seems the hard way to do it because the left side is heavier. BUT! The left side stays together once that shim is in ..... the right side falls apart! Yep, been there done that. Trying to lift the right side up onto the left will just have the sun and planet gears come tumbling out and the alignment of the three planet gears are a PAIN!Oh, by the way, getting the plant gears (those three gears that come out) aligned is easiest if you put the toothed plate they insert into in the tranny half and shifting your tranny into forward or reverse, not sure which is which but you'll see the gear come up and mesh with the toothed plate. This keeps the plate held in place and makes the line up of those three planet gears MUCH MUCH easier.
Hope this helps and is not too late. :-)
That shim on the left output shaft is the 'Magic' to getting the two halves together without a whole lot of luck and failed attempts.
Enjoy!
Al |
william
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Thanks for help. Transmission reassembled without much difficulty. Luck I went into Left side, found similar breakdown of inside band on L side. Have reinstalled transmission, reattached handles, have about 7 inches of travel in laterals, but now I can't get the master links reassembled. Is there a special tool or technique to squeeze the lateral plates together? I've thouroughly cleaned the pieces but can't get enough squeeze with vise grips to apply the retaining clip. Even out of the machine! What's the deal? Any advice on bolt adjustment in U channel also appreciated. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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WILLIAM, if the master link is cleen and go's threw the rolers enoph for the other side plate to go on and show a retaining clip grove than the trick is in the clip's instalation, most have a spot almost at the closed end you can put them on and pull them tightly into the groove 90*away from 2nd post,
then you rotate it twards the other post and flex one blade at open end out over the post and keep rotation till the 2nd blade is in the groove, now force the flext blade over edge and into the grove, = done
with a pocket knife or even a thumbnail when nesesary they can be removed the opesit way, also remember to have the closed end going in the same direction the chain will travle too reduce the chances of the links retainer acsidently being knocked off by junk in the chain bay ,(hull) |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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William, glad I encouraged you to go into left side too. The o-ring master link is a bugger to get together I had to call the factory for help. Jay told me to put a little nut over the stud sticking out and squeeze with a vise grips. Do one end at a time (it should stay together long enough to get the clip on). He said they have vise grips with nuts welded to them just for that purpose. The other problem I had with the o ring is when it is new, getting both ends together to insert the master link. I have and end on my ring clip pliers that worked to get them together, but Jay said they also have special built vise grips with master link studs to get the chain together.
On the bolt adjustment, You want 3/16th inch of travel (not over 1/4 inch) of the brake bar from the tranny case. Try to have the brake bar pretty much vertical when you are done. Make sure both levers go the same distance forward and the same distance backwards and make sure you have neutral position. With new bands you should have about 6" from outside edge foreword to outside edge backward |
roadwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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william, sounds like your masterlink is not long enuough. for example the masterlink for 428 regular chain will not clip up on 428H series, as the H has slightly thicker side plates. check out the markings on your chain and get the right length of master link. |
william
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Thanks all. Invaluable forum, will try seating lateral master link tomorrow using nut over pin and vise grips. Also, of several tips/tricks I learned. I never could figure out how Brandon could so easily lube middle outside axle fittings (without removal of tires) or even access the grease fitting to the rearmost chain sprocket bearing. I never knew there was a low profile right angle grease coupling (NAPA part700-2020). I simply attached this in place of the straight coupling on the flexible hose. Now its easy. Best thing since sliced bread. |
william
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Up and running. Took less than an hour to reinstall engine once master link on chain installed. Vise grip over nut was way to go-EZ. Tried 1-1/2" C clamp which only got bent without seating outer link. Tightened back chains to keep from slapping plastic bed. Drives and sounds entirely different. Much more authoratative response to laterals, and no chattering. Machine had chattered from start. I was concerned but no need to worry, band/plunger/bolt adjustment was a snap. Changed clips over retaing clips of plunger/bolts in U-channel to "safety pin" style cotter pins. They ought to be as secure and are much easier to install/remove for bolt adjustment. Any thoughts? |
john prince
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Well, lets see now, I just had a professional installation of supertrap muffler which greatly aided the noise and backfire on 16hp engine. The carb was rejetted one size larger, K&N filter installed, all belts, plug, governor brought to specs. All in all, I'm thinking I added as much as 10% to my Argo Van II, certainly runs and responds better and quieter than ever.
However, uphill, which I seem to have more of than most of you, living here in No. Calif where 20 to 35% uphill hundreds of feet at the run is the norm, adding 10% power to 16hp only makes a real difference until you have to make an uphill heading correction. Any braking on the Argo dumps half the power and rpm, leaving probably the equivalent of about 8 hp to the remaining 3 wheels. Okay, so you've tweaked the 8 hp with your 10% increase. You will never regain momentum when you are running 25 and 30% grade and are interupted by a turn. This doesn't make much of a diff by yourself, but ad a passenger, you are liable to have to do a U turn and get out of there.
Answer: the Argo needs a 20hp engine to go uphill where I live. While I don't have to encounter a lot of mud, I am guessing that will be the same kind and degree of difficulty. The 18hp in the Bigfoot isn't going to overcome any of what I have said because they're pushing bigger tires. I can't speak for the 8 wh w/Kawasaki engine. That might be the ticket except for the initial cost.
I would have been better off I think to have ordered 20 hp engine and swapped out 16hp.
The Max doesn't need the bigger engine to go uphill as its tranny braking doesn't require more than a slight disengagement to make an uphill correction. Of course, the Max makes you pay for you uphill fun when you start downhill and realize there's no brakes except the transmission, and no lower engine gear to help hold you back.
I guess the long steep cllmbs of my County really don't reflect the topography of the rest of the country. I should probably go buy a Hummer. |
Pete Stefan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Hi
This supertrap muffler that your talking about,
where could I find one and what does it cost.
Thanks
Pete |
john prince
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Was a double supertrapp IDS2 kit...cost about $175...found it surfing web...but think is basically available as standard motorcycle part as is used extensively in motorcycles. Easy installation, fit without almost any modification. Main advantage was much quieter operation, eliminated backfires, did require the carb be rejetted one size(mechanic did it with carb drill). |
Pete Stefan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Hi John
I talked to a bike shop today about the supertrapp
muffler IDS2 and he said that there were 7 or 8
different ones with that number.[Honda,Susuki.etc
etc]and all were different sizes.Which one did you
use and where did you get yours?He told me that
they start at around $350.00 plus taxes.So if I
could get one for around $175.00 US even with the
exchange and the shipping it would still be
cheaper.You can email me at greek107@hotmail.com
Thankyou
Pete |
bugaboo
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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I have a 2000 Bigfoot and I seem to be getting a black residue out of my exuast. I have not been running it much and am not sure if it is just water mixed with exaust or is it oil as it would then indicate a problem with the rings. If anyone else has had similar situation I would appreciate hearing
Thank you |
balduc2t
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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bugaboo
my 2000 bigfoot does the same thing. i don't think it is any thing major at least i hope not |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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my bigfoot has always done that, I think the carbs just run a little rich. Mine used to backfire untill I gutted the muffler and ran 2" pipe out of it. no more backfires. |
oncecoot
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Hey argogeru I have a new response that backfires all the time,scares the piss out of me somtimes.Could you elaberate on what you did to your muffler. Thanks oncecoot |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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oncecoot,
My buddy has a muffler shop, so I had him torch to holes in the side of the muffler, pull out most of the baffling inside and welded 2" straight pipe to the muffler to a Y and out the side. their is very little backpressure if any at all. I do not use that foam wrap around the air filter, the motor needs all it can get. no backfires since I did this and it sounds alot better, not very quiet though. |
Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Oncecoot,
My Response backfires, too. The local Briggs shop says that is common for the Vanguard engines if you shut them down too soon after running under load. They recommend letting the engine idle for a minute or two (real clock minutes) before shutting down. My Argo distributor recommending choking the engine before shutting down, but the Briggs people said it is better for the engine if you idle. |
Attex Bob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Run a tank full of Trick racing gas through it every now and then. This will do two things. 1. clean up the combustion chamber and exhaust, and 2. Stop the backfire problem. The gas they make nowdays is crap. Hope this helps; It did on my Argo. |
mark harding (Promoza)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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hello i seen one here once were some one i think put in a geo motor in a maxIV i hope it was on here so if anyone knows about it please let me know thanks |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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I know some of the newer ARGO's are a bit quieter than the older ones (MAGNUM, VANGUARDS 8x8 etc) but is their any way to reduce the noise from an older one? My Magnum is extremely loud, always has been and this is just the way they are. Is their anything I can do to try and reduce the noise without changing performance, low cost, and not huge amounts of labor? |
John Schwab (Johnschwab)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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To Mark Harding
I believe that the Max you are referring to is the Max 4 owned by Kevin Griffin. It is currently powered by a four cylinder Mitsubishi automobile motor but Kevin has plans to put a Geo three cylinder in it. Kevin is the husband of Ribits Riders president Ramona and can be reached at ribitrdr@adelphia.net Kevins machine has been at all the Humphrey events,occasionally moving under its own power. Hope this helps |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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I have an ARGO MAGNUM with 545 odd hours on it. This weekend, I was driving it on the road and the forward clutch (cone shaped one under the exhaust manifold) broke. A huge chunk flew off, smashed the back of the oil temp gauge, and broke it as well. The part that broke was the smooth shiny area where the belt is. SO it is the inside face of the clutch. Any ideas on what would cause the wall to crack and split? Could a past rollover have contributed? |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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you might find som internal parts from the clutch in the hull somplace laiter, mine broke like that
im not shure what happend to it but not a rolover,
mine had lots more hrs on it and had bin way over reved a few times, also it was subjected to 38hp!
i'l send a pic |
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