| Author |
Message |
    
Kevin Vallelunga (Kevinv123)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: | 
|
Does anyone experience rapid brake wear or fading adjustment on their Argo. My right side lever goes out of adjustment far sooner than the left. Within an hour of use.
At first I thought the nut on the caliper was worn and the locking feature was not holding when it got hot, vibration, etc.. I put a jam nut against it Saturday and took it out for about 2 hours yesterday. The right side gets real loose, almost to the end of its travel. The machine only has 70 hrs. on it. Brake lining thickness is not visibly different. Is there anything else that could contribute to excessive wear on one side(other than riding the stick)? |
Travis Chrystal (Travisch)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
Kevin - I know ODG had some trouble in 1999 with the brake cylinders. An O-ring gets cut during assembly and it won't hold the pressure & leaks down. I don't mean fluid leaks out - the leak is internal to the cylinder. Its about a 10 minute fix once you get the O-ring. I had my dealer do my Bigfoot.
It was also my right lever. |
Kevin Vallelunga (Kevinv123)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
I have mechanical brakes. |
Ray Carriere
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
Kevin,I too have the mechanical disc type brakes.
I also have problems with them.It seems the levers get out of adjustment after a very short period of time.
I am sure that ther must be an easy fix that we just haven't thought about.
I'm sure that all the guys who owned argos in the 80's just didn't adjust their brakes every few hours and if so what a poor design.
When i purchased mine i thought that they would be great beacause my snowmobile has the same style and i adjust those once a season.
If there is someone out who has a simple fix,let us know.
I have changed the shoes and holders to hopefully get a better adjustment but still have the same
problem.
I also thought that it might take some time for the new shoes to brake in .
This has not helped either.The discs are not warped or used out in any way.
Cam levers are good but you should be able to take any slack with the adjusters nut.
Hopefully, i don't have to spend alot of money to go to the hydraulic brakes. |
ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
hey ray:
did you check disk brake faces for roughness???..if they aren't smoot ( if you pass your nail thru sides of disk you suppose to get a smoot feeling)...otherwise the rough faces will destroy brake padding on no time!!! |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
Is their any liquid on the disks? if you got some grease or oil like stuff on the disk, the pads will not grip and then your brakes don't work properly. Make sure you always use some sort of cardboard shield when you are greasing the idler chains are other areas around the brake systems. |
Ray Carriere
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
Isaac,I have checked the disc faces and found them to smooth as could be.The manual discs i had on my sled worked great and lasted for ever without needing adjustment.I am sure that these should work the same.Thanks for your idea.Hopefully,someone else has something else i
can check or i guess i will have to look for some hydraulic dics brakes.Anybody know where i can get a hold of a good set of hydraulic brake calipers and master cylinders to with it. |
ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
HEY RAY:
now that you mention that the disk "faces" are smoot another posibility for premature failure is that brake pad get jam producing drag when not in use...try some wd-40 around brake pad mechanism to secure free transition between stand-by mode and aplied mode....another posibility is that adjuster's nut get loose and lost adjustment...or low quality of brake pad material...........mechanical disk brake component are simple mechanism and shouldn't get to much problem to figure out "what's wrong".... |
Gord
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
Gents,
Ths fix is simple..... if your brakes heat up, they expand. ALl brakes do this. MEchanical brakes, if not adjusted properly, will do this. When they do, they drag. The fix is simple, increase the gap between the pads and disc. begin by making small adjustments with feeler guages and record the gaps. Then use the machine, and note the amount of drag. If it exists still, increaser the gap slightly using the FINE adjustment on the front of the brakes. DO NOT use the coarse adjustment on the side of the caliper!
I owned a 6x6 with mechanical brakes and only made adjustments when the brakes were dissassembled for removal of the fire wall. That was every ten hours to oil the transmission chains. Every time I took the brake lever adjustment nuts ( the fine adjustment)off to move the brake levers to the rear, allowing removal of the fire wall, I counted the number of turns taken to completely remove the nuts. When I reassembled them I simply used the same number of turns to reassemble. When they are adjusted properly the brake levers will be about 6 to 7 inches from the dash and should be an equal distance from the fire wall.
Note that if you have oil on your pads then you will experience brake drag no mattew what adjustment gaps you use because oil soaled pads will expand much more readily and will expand more than normal. The end result is that the recommended 6 inch distance between brake lever and dash will be insufficient to prevent overheating of the pads.
Have patience. This will work and you should not have to adjust brakes more than 10 to 12 hours. I only made adjustments when the pads wore normally. |
Ray Carriere
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
Thanks Gord,I have had snowmobiles and motorcycles
all my life and never experienced such a problem.
This is the easiest adjustment on the machine that anyone could do.After doing it so many times on all my other machines,this one was a real pain.You are right about the heat being generated by the shoes and i will gauge them and see what happens.
Sounds like you been there with the same problem i am having.
I guess because the machine requires the brakes for turning and stopping,this must cause all the extra heat.
What was the expanded rate of the shoes on yours
when heated.Over .0010 or closer to .0040
I will try your setup and let you know. |
J. Mark
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
My 2001 Argo Conquest, which I purchased new, has only 11 hours of usage. During my last outing, I noticed a repetitive metallic rattle sound occurring when driving forward. I recently diagnosed the problem to being the brake pad of the right caliper moves 1/16" outward once every revolution of the rotor. The outward motion roughly occurs when the brake pad transitions the access hole in the rotor disc. I measured both the radial and lateral run-out of the rotor and it is quite minimal. In addition, the access hole in the rotor disc does not have any burrs. The rotor for the most part is clean and fairly smooth. The brake pads are loose when no brake load is applied and tight when under load.
The motion of the pad and the noise produced is eliminated just by applying a light finger pressure to the pads through the caliper access window.
This noise is quite annoying but I realize it poses minimal risk to operation.
Any recommendations on what I should do would be greatly recommended. I contacted my dealership and they have never experienced this problem. |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
try replacing the calliper or the pad. Thier should be cotter pin type thing there and you may be missing one |
Another Rider (Another_rider)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
You can use the traditional "Brake Quiet" for disc brakes in autos as well. It's just a very mild adhesive, and it causes the pad to adhere to the piston when it retracts after brake release. USe sparingly. |
J. Mark
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
Thanks for the tips!
Argomag:
The cotter pins are properly installed. However, they somewhat spin as the pads are moving outward. I most likely will replace the pads if the noise continues.
Another Rider:
I will check into the "Brake Quiet"; this may be a good solution if pad replacement does not solve the problem. Have you used this adhesive for this purpose? Any specific reason for the comment "use sparingly"?
Thanks,
J. Mark |
Wild Dog Machinery
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
Without having to pull anything to bits, you could also try using a flat bladed screwdriver to spread to cotter pins that hold the brake pads in the calliper.
Put the screwdriver tip between the legs of each cotter pin then twist the screwdriver a bit, which will result in the cotter pin opening up a little in between the pads.
You'll have to experiment with how much gap is needed, as the movement of the pads along the cotter pins when the brake is applied will close the cotter pins a bit.
This will help to keep the pads away from the disk and at least reduce the cyclic clicking you are hearing.
Don't overspread the cotter pins and be sure to replace any cotter pin that exhibits any cracking. |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
Is that pad movement radially, out from the center of the rotor instead of laterally, side to side? If so, it sounds like what I've seen on autos after the rotors were turned on a brake lathe. The lathe puts a tiny spiral groove on the rotor like a phonogragh record. The pad follows the spiral, moving radially a small amount until the caliper limits the pad's movement, then the pad "pops" out of the groove and makes a noise. Then it starts again.
If this is the case, it will eventully go away as the turning grooves wear away and the rotor is truly smooth.
I have a tool and cutter shop grind my rotors these days, a really nice non directional finish. |
Another Rider (Another_rider)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
Mark,
Yes, I do it now as a matter of course whenever I replace the pads. The 'use sparingly' comment is because unlike autos that have a clip assembly over the pad, the actuall contact area on the Argo is very small(pad to piston), and it does take time for the brake quiet to tack up, no sense having it run/drip all over the caliper assembly. |
J. Mark
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
Thanks for the tips and follow-up to my questions!
Wild Dog Machinery:
Spreading the cotter pin with a screwdriver is a brilliant suggestion. I will try it as soon as I get a chance. THANKS!!!
Roger Smith:
I wonder if Argo rotors are turned or ground by the factory? The finish of my rotors are very smooth, at least to the finger touch. Have you had rotors ground for AATVs?
Another Rider:
A clip is exactly what is needed. I will make a suggestion to ODG. You certainly do not want the brakes to continually drag to eliminate the issue. A clip would be a robust solution. Until available, I will consider the Brake Quiet when I replace my brake pads.
Thanks,
Joe |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
|
I havn't seen your problem or had my rotors cut/ground yet.. just wondering if your pads were popping side to side or in and out.
The use sparingly deal means the stuff is meant to stay between the back of the pad and the caliper piston. You don't want the compound to get on the rotor of friction side of the pads.
Brake Quiet is usually for brake squeal caused by the harmonic vibration between the back of the pad and piston, like when you run your wet finger around the rim of a crystal glass. You can also get silicon brake grease to lube brake parts that slide and move. It won't melt like normal grease. I like to use it instead of the spay brake quiet.
My pads squeal if the chains throw off oil onto the rotors and pads. Pulling the pads and cleaning them and the rotors fixes it. Argo should have designed something different, that's silly to have a chain up against a rotor with no shield. |
Shop Talk: Tech Tips and Q&A section