| Author |
Message |
    
newmax
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: | 
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i need some help with my t20. i have a max iv 200 model. i have been having trouble with it pulling to the right or left when i get one side in mud or snow. it seems to bog out. today i was going through some mud it was pretty deep the bottom started to touch, and it was bogging out. i had the trhottle 3/4 way down and the tires were not spinning. i thopught the belt was slipping but it wasn't. when i got home i touched the transmission and it was very hot, and there was some oil seeping out the bottom. i also heard some squeeling noise. are the bands slipping and is there any adjustments that can be made? please help |
MaxRules (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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Newmax,
It sounds like the problem is driver error (the most common problem with the Max). While going through the mud you were unknowingly pulling slightly back on the sticks. When under a heavy load like mud it is real easy to make the tranny slip. This would account for the hot tranny and not turning the wheels. A "hot" tranny will make water steam (not just hot to the touch). You probably over heated it severily and boiled the fluid out the vent plug. It is normal to have small, almost liquid, metal shavings on the drain plug. I recommend you change the fluid and refill with to the proper level.
My suggestion is to PUSH the sticks forward while going through mud and up hills. You must make sure they are locked in and wheels are turning. Don't rely completely on the springs to hold the sticks. Once you get some more experience behind the sticks you can take the Max many more places and will never have these slipping problems. |
Vic V.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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Hey fellows....... I have an old Hustler 16HP with seperate shift levers for the left and right sides of T-20 transmisson...It is rough on the chains, but sometimes you can get out of a tight spot by the counter rotation of the tires.Just rev up the motor and slam the sticks and spin like a top.....but shifting both levers is a pain, although you can back up or go foward with just one side at a time...Thanks Richard for the means to vent our questions and answers...Vic V. |
newmax
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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thanks brandon, i did change the fluid today and took it out a little. I didn't go through to much mud but i did push forward on the sticks and seemed better. I did notice some squealing when i went backwards though. I had to pull real hard back on the sticks to keep it from squealing. can you pull to hard on the sticks. I noticed two bolts on the transmission where the sticks enter the trans. they are threaded with a retaining pin in front of them. do you know what they are for? |
MaxRules (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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It should not squeal while backing up but you do have to pull hard. The bands could be glazed and might cause that noise. It should wear the glaze off with a little more running. I don't think that will hurt the bands. You must pull hard on the sticks to fully engauge the tranny in reverse. It is not reasonably possible to break the bands until they have over 20 years of use on them.
There are actually four of those bolts on the tranny. The other two are at the bottom and are harder to see. Those are the adjustment bolts for stick movement. Screw them in to lessen the travel once your bands stretch over several years of use. My Max is two years old with hundreds of hours and they don't need adjustment. |
Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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Mike, I dont seem to be able to reply to your e-mail so I will post my response here. It keeps being returned. I see it duplicates much of Brandons message however.
How was the fluid you drained and how much was in it. I suspect it was
either very low or that you had been slipping the bands excessively.
Just make sure you’re not driving and slightly pulling back on the
sticks all the time. Especially while climbing steep banks. That is a
common problem with inexperienced max operators. I had a hard time
breaking myself of it while climbing steep grades. I think because I was
use to hydrostatic drive in my skid steer loader.
It shouldn’t squeal when going in reverse but does require you to pull
back very hard on the sticks. Its possible that the bands are slightly
glazed and this may go away in a short time. Keep track of the fluid
however and make sure its not leaking somewhere. Your stick travel isn’t
real excessive at 7” but you might want to adjust it. Mine at one point
was 11”. There are 4 bolts to adjust this on the tranny. One on the end
of each band. They are kind of hard to get at and removing the rear seat
and battery will make it easier. They are at the top and bottom of the u
channel on the front of the tranny. There is a little spring clip in
front of each one. The sticks are linked to these u channels and they in
turn tighten and loosen the bands. You might check and tighten the
forward spring tension while your there too. Two big springs with an eye
bolt for adjustment. I tighten mine up all the way. When all this is
done you can adjust the stick position to suit you with the adjustment
in the linkage under the front floorboard.
You should be able to spin the wheels even with it chained to a tree by
the rear hitch. If you cant then there is still a problem.
Tim |
newmax
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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thans tim and brandon. the fluid seemed to be fine when i changed it. I added almost 1 qt. i got the battery out and can get to the bolts. does it tighten them when i turn them in or back them out. also do either of you know what i connect the + and - to from my new hour meter? |
Frank
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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I have a 94 Max II and today was my first real test in a lake. I ran the battery down with my trolling motor , but made it to shore anyway. It ran good in the water. I jump started the engine on land and was trying to get in forward gear when the tranny was starting to grind. It popped out of gear twice and the third time I tried to put a slight pressure on the gear shift so it would not pop out. I got it in forward gear, but now my left side tires do not rotate when I accelerate. When I pressed down on the shift lever to keep it from popping out I did not hear anything break or grind. Before this I noticed that it will not go into reverse and I have the lever as far as it goes up and am pulling back on the sticks hard. Does any one know what the problem could be. It ran real good in forward before today.Frank in Carlsbad. |
ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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HEY FRANK:
remove the lower part of the bench seat in order to check linkage on t-20 tranny....the single level that you use to transfer from forward to neutral to reverse simultaneously moves the left and the right side of the transmission, having clearly that t-20 tranny is as a matter of fact two transmissions sharing same housing...so basically belcrank that is located on top of each corner(left-right)near to the output sprockers should moves at same proportion when you activate tranny control level....an goes as this:
* level down.....both belcrank goes full forward...forward direction
* level center...both belcrank at center...neutral
* level up......both belcrank goes full back...reverse direction
if this test passes ok...then you need to check for t-20 internal damage............if you found some problem to move the level also try to move a little bit BY HAND the t-20 belt pulley to "sincronize" the internal "shift collar" |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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FRANK, YOU DIDENT BY CHANCE SHIFT BETWEEN FORWARD AND REVERS AT ALL WHILE YOU WERE IN THE WATER DID YOU?
SOMTIMES THE IDLES TOO HIGH AND YOU STILL HAVE WHEELES SPININ WHEN YOUR IN THE WATER, IT'S POSABLE TO DAMAGE YOUR TRANS THIS WAY WITHOUT KNOWING IT,
YOU MAY HAVE BROKEN SHIFT COLERS, |
frank
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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Issac & David: Thanks I will try the methods outlined and get back. David I did not shift into reverse in the water - as I knew that it wouldn't go in reverseanyway, because it may be that the tranny is out of adjustment. When I would go like between 1`5 and 25 mph on the street I could hear noise like chain movement - is this normal? I think there is a problem with synchronization. Too bad I'm not too mechanically inclined. The guy I bought this used Max II from put NASCAR racing seats in it and removed the bench - so now I can't figure how to get at the pins that secure the sticks to the tranny. If I would have known these are so maintenance intensive - I wouldn't have bought it. I like it though when it runs. Frank |
ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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HEY FRANK:
if new nascar seat are "permanently" attached to upper maxll body then just raise complete upper body as you should do to grease chains......by the way, check chain's tension and oil them |
Frank
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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Cool thanks Issac. Hey is it normal to hear the chains rattling when going full speed? Thanks again!Frank |
Frank
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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Cool thanks Issac. Hey is it normal to hear the chains rattling when going full speed? Thanks again!Frank |
ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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HEY FRANK:
use common sense!!!....if chains produce "rattling" noise is because lack of oil or lack of proper tension..the best way to check and/or to adjust chain tension is by lifting at least one wheel on air..that way you can rotate BY HAND the lifted wheel until bottom side of chain get FULL TENSION.....then you adjust the chain tensioner......it's important to inspect and to keep clean ( no dirt-rocks-bolts-) the chain wells ( bottom sides channel on lower body)
since oil is "sticky" and "messy" it's a manteniance key to periodically watch this area to avoid chain/sprocker premature failure.....it's an easy task with pressurized water (or steamed!!)cleaner...also brake parts cleaner work great......lift at least one side of aatv so you can rotate all wheel by hand use some lumber to spread load across frame..a couple of empty 5 gallon plastic paint container or 4) one gallon metallic paint container work terrific as aatv stand!!!.....that's also another way to inspect dinamically axles and bearings condition........doing manteniance is also fun!!!...no pain no gain formula rules!!! |
frank
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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Isaac - how do you get the 5 gallon paint cans underneath the vehicle? Sorry I'm a newby. Frank |
ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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HEY FRANK:
ABOUT HOW TO LIFT YOUR AATV...IT WILL DEPEND OF WHAT DO YOU HAVE ON STOCK....SINCE MOST AATV WEIGHT ROUND THE 800 POUNDS TWO PEOPLE CAN LIFT THE FRONT AREA TO FIT INSIDE THE 5 GALLON PLASTIC CONTAINER TO ACT AS A LIFTING SUPPORT.....ONCE YOU GET SUPPORTED THE FRONT AREA YOU RAISE THE REAR AREA TO KEEP LEVEL...THAT WAY YOU FILL HAVE ALL WHEEL ON AIR WITHOUT DISTURBING THE CHAIN WELL...OR YOU CAN JACK ( SCISSOR TYPE JACK) THE AATV....WITH HYDRAULIC 1-6 TONS BOTTLE JACK YOU CAN LIFT BY THE CENTER AXLE..ONE SIDE AT TIME...OR THIRTH OPTION OF LIFTING IS BY A "COME-A-LONG" ATTACHED TO A TREE OR CEILING OR "N" SHAPE FRAME.......IT'S JUST A MATTER TO PUT "BRAINS ON FIRST GEAR" FOR YOUR SPECIFIC RESOURCES AVALIABLE AND COMMON SENSE........... |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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hi frank try your atv tires then, they work as a stand to, i use a floor jack with a block of wood to do the lifting, |
Larry Noworyta (Larry)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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FRANK,
CHECK OUT THE "HOW TO" SECTION ON THE ROUTE 6X6 WEBSITE AND SCROLL DOWN TO THE BOTTOM FOR INFORMATION AND PICTURES OF AN AATV SUPPORT LIFT.
WITH A LITTLE TIME AND MATERIAL, YOU CAN MAKE A LIFT TO FREQUENTELY CHECK AND SERVICE YOUR VEHICLE WITH EASE. |
mark harding (Promoza)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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hello i'm in need of some help on a t-20 how do you go about getting the clutch off the in put shaft on it i ned to put in a new spring thanks for any help |
gregg evans
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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new at the aatv thing i have a 8x8 made of alum. skin and alloy frame 20 hp kohler t-20 trans with size 50 chain. if this is about right or not let me know please. i.e. chain too small, etc. now to the question, while trying out aatv it worked fine at first then right side quit pulling in both directions no popping grinding squealing or anything suspicious to me. left side pulled great in both directions trans warm but not hot to touch no leaking fluid any help appreciated can anyone help me with getting trans manual? thanks in advance for input. |
ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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HEY GREGG:
about the t-20 first try the easy way...check for proper right side linkage...it's supose to move AT SAME TIME, SAME DIRECTION than the left side..
if linkage is ok then you can go to adjust the right side band (2)....it's just a matter of check for proper tension on right side plunger...if some plunger overpass t-20 frame you can figure out that you find a brocken brake band...if brake band are adjusted on spec. then you can point a brocken right output shaft... |
Cliff Barrington
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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Anybody have an easy procedure to adjust the plungers with out the factoty gage? I think my sticks travel a little too far. Thanks, Ciff |
ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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HEY CLIFF: in order to "dinamically" adjust the plunger on t-20 just follow the follow step:
tips:
* adjust one side at once
* lift one tire bench (left or right) so all same bench tires can spin freely by hand with t-20 on NEUTRAL.
* plunger gain adjust when pulling out...so if loosing plunger's nut and turning "right" (screw-in) you should get more adjust on band
* upper plunger control brake on reverse
* lower plunger control brake on forward
1) put t-20 on reverse....if you can spin by hand your wheel you need to adjust upper plunger until you get "frozen tire"
2) move stick 2" back and you should get again free tire spinning
3) put t-20 on forward and secure by hand the t-20 pulley ( better if you get helper!!)if you can spin tires you shoild need to adjust lower plunger.
4) move stick 2" and you should get free wheel spin..
5) move stick full back ( no more than 9" travel) and you should frozen the tires..
repeat operation on oposite tire bench .. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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Yes Cliff, If you are adjusting with the tranny in the machine, just measure between sticks (one all the way forward and one all the way back) and keep both sticks the same measurement - anyplace between six and ten inches. Screwing the bolt in tightens the bands. Adjust the bottom bolt first and try to keep the brake bar (u channel) straight up and down. If you will take off the tension springs when you are adjusting the bands, it makes it a whole lot easier. If you are adjusting with the tranny out of the machine, adjust for 3/16 of an inch of movement of the brake bar from the tranny face - not more than 1/4 inch of travel in & out. Use a big screw driver to leverage the brake bar to move the plungers. I don't think that gauge exists. |
Cliff Barrington
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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Thanks. My Hustler doesn't have any springs on the sticks. I think my plungers move quite a bit more than 1/4". Having no idea of the hours on this '79 T-20, I want to be careful to not get the bands too tight. It pulls strong. Isaac, I'm having a little trouble following your terminolgy, but your way sounds like a good way not to get the bands too tight. I'll probably make the adjustments by measurements and check it by feel. Thanks again, Cliff |
ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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HEY CLIFF: I WILL TRY TO "CLARIFY" TERMINOLOGY AN GOES AS FOLLOW:
TIRE BENCH:
6X6 HUSTLER HAS 3 LEFT TIRES AND 3 RIGHT TIRES LINKED TOGETHER BY INTERNAL CHAIN....THAT MEANS THAT IF YOU TRY TO TURN BY HAND YOUR FRONT RIGHT TIRE ALSO CENTER AND REAR RIGHT TIRE WILL SPIN AT SAME SPEED.
plunger:
t-20 have 4 plunger*two on left side and two on right side ( chromed cilinder that moves across t-20 housing)..when the plunger is pulling out from t-20 then the internal brake band get applied to drum.....so if you screw-in the adjuster linkage will be shorter..therefore brake will be aplied.
brake action
on forward, the brake action will secure output shaft (chain) with input shaft (belt pulley)..therefore brake action will act as a clutch
on reverse, the brake action will secure output shaft (chain) with t-20 housing...real brake
one side at once
t-20 is as a matter of fact two transmission sharing same housing...therefore you should work on one side at a time ( left side or right side)
each level control simultaneously(via bellcrank) upper and lower plunger at same time......and work as follow:
when t-20 on forward upper plunger full out and lower plunger full inn ( full grip on clutch and full release on brake)..control stick full forward
when you moves back the control stick the clutch will start releasing and brake action will start...this is the famous free spinning feature...at this condition you can make wide turn on your aatv...not "skid" action
when control stick moves full back the clutch will be full release and brake action will be full applied.....it's skid steer time!!
when t-20 on reverse upper plunger control brake between output shaft (chain) and t-20 housing..lower plunger control brake between input shaft (belt pulley) and output shaft (chain)
clutch action...therefore when control stick is full forward brake is full aplied and clutch is full released..when control stick moves a little back brake start to release and clutch start to engage...again that's the free spinning to make wide turn (no skid steer)...control level full back and you get full brake release and full clutch engage.... hope that this explanation will help on t-20 understanding and what to expect from each band adjustment..... |
sniperfarm
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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my max buffalo turns left strong but right is not smooth its seems weak ever since i put a new set of 26 inch tires on it i had this problem . i took the trans to the factory and they adjusted it for me and it seemed to slip at the factory specs so i adjusted it and got a good left turn and a weak right turn i turned all the plunger adj bolts the same as per the factory trany man s suggestion can i adjust the right now to fix right turn . thanks in advance mark |
ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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HEY SNIPERFARM: you didn't mention it but if at factory they replace brake bands (after all it's a logical issue!!!)you should expect a "break in" period for the new band to wear a little and fit the drum.....otherwise lift the right tire bench and check by hand the dinamic funtion of your t-20 and/or adjust it...since both plunger ( upper and lower) moves oposite but reciprocally (due to bellcrank linkage design)..you should check "closely" each plunger (band) adjustment...otherwise one plunger will cancel other plunger efectiveness......... |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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Mark, Isaac is right, check to see what your tranny is doing before you adjust anything. Block it up so you can turn all wheels by hand (or by the engine) and see what is happening. If you have normal travel and someone hasn't fooled with the adjustment, your tranny either works or it doesn't (there is no partial works) unless you have glazed a band - by excessive slippage. If you have a glazed band, many hard turns will usually get it to work again (might require a new band, but I doubt it). How old af a mchine do you have? It takes a lot of hours (500/600) before a tranny should need adjustment.
Assuming your tranny is adjusted right, usually what you describe is a weight distribution problem. Sit on the right side of the machine or shift the load to the right a little and you should get a good right turn. Make sure you have the control lever pulled all the way back and give it just a little gas as you turn - many have a tough time engaging the brake and operating the throttle on the right stick. |
E$ L McKenney
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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I Have been having some problems with my unknown year max IV and before I put a whole lot of money into fixing the engine, I would like to know how much a new or rebuilt T-20 transmission sells for? |
HELLONSIXWHEELS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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i have been quoted different prices from the factory at different times.once i was told 1500.00
for a new one and about 1650.00 on another
occasion.i guess it depends on what mood they are
in when you call.either way it is too much money
if you ask me.you are better off rebuilding your
transmission yourself and saving yourself a ton of money.its not as difficult as you may think.
very basic internally and easy to work with.i have done 3 myself and have had excellent results. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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A fellow from Ohio just told me that Richard charges $900 for a rebuilt T-20. I think he has a switch program also (don't know what he charges for that). You can also send your tranny to Richard or to RI and they will rebuild yours for you (My guess is new bands would cost about $600).
RI price on bands is $92.40 each. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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HELLO HELL ON 6 WHEELES, FIX YOURS INSTEAD OF SWITCHING UNITS AS THE ATTEX UNITS WERE THE HIGHEST IN QUALITY, |
Jim Caldwell
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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or buy an argo and never worry about a trany. |
HELLONSIXWHEELS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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You are so right jim,i wouldnt have to worry about
the tranny if i had an argo.just a good winch to
pull me through where the max just made it with ease.
do you even own a 6x6 or an 8x8 jim?well i do,i own both an argo and a max and an old attex 500
superchief.i will tell you from experience that the max and attex will make the argo look sick out in the real rough terrain.i like them all but lets
get it right instead of kidding ourselves.
if attex were still in buisness i would own a new one,by far the best design ever put together for a
6x6.when recreatives assumed the rights for the
borg warner t-20 all the machines that were running the t-20 tranny were screwed because they
no longer had a tranny to use.
if you cant beat the competition then try to sink them and that is just what they did.
you guys can all scream and holler about me bad mouthing the argo but i think i have every right
to as i own one too.the next time your in a mud
hole and you have to keep pulling the sticks to get the other side going again that is when you have to think of a max because there is no second guessing.the sticks are forward and ALL SIX WHEELS
ARE SPINNING.not trying to piss anyone off,just my
point of view from experience. |
John Martin
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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That's what I screaming too Hellonwheels! |
Shop Talk: Tech Tips and Q&A section