| Author |
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Jim Baker
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: | 
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Yes the original question was is the argo really a 3 wheel drive (limited slip differential) or is it full time 6 wheel drive. I undewrstand that the max is full time 6 wheel drive. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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says who ful time 6 wheel drive!
i own a max, where is the 6 wheel drive when your climbing a hill and have to adjust your coarse? gon dude, amphicats still have it! older baker hill trans type attex still has it, some other types do too but not argo or max with t-20, nope there not ful time 6 whell drive ether, and i own t-20 vehicles too, im spoiled i guess caus i have driven better handeling attex's and amphicats, ect..
don't let them snow yah! |
dandon
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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hey all,to be frank I do not know anything about atvs I know a lot about Landrovers :) I found this site while surfing and decided to level up my ofroad pleasure by owning one of these cuties. Argo sure looks cooler than Max and Max has more fans this is as far as I know. I requested both prices. However my main question is spare parts and services. If these things do break as often as you say I have a big problem, cause I live in Istanbul Turkey :). the question is : which producer is better organized and willing to backup their production. I dont want and like "sell and forget about it" companies.( Landrover UK is one of them if it isn't for the "legend" I would definetely give up ) thanks in advance for your help and have fun with the babies :) |
jdrummond
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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hey dandon, i own an argo, the only time itgoes to 3 wheel drive is when i get one side on a slippery surface goig up hill, then only one side pulls. I dont know if a max will do the same , maybe a max owner will read this and help you out too. other than that I have no problems going anywhere I want to go with it |
max4me
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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Dandon,
The Max will have all wheels going all the time in the slippery stuff. Max has good parts support and very knoweledgable staff who can answer any question you may have by just calling them and explaining what you have.Lots of knowledge here as well.
Parts are easy to get and repairs are easy as well. I don't know about Argo parts but I have heard that maintnance is harder.
Any one out there own both who can competently speak as to parts availabilty and ease of maintnance of both machines? |
jim hicks
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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guys just a argo fan and a proud owner of a 1989 8 wheeler and loving it owned a 4 wheeler once ,never used it half as much as the argo i,m hooked,use it summer and winter and up here we have like 1 to 3 feet of snow. |
roadwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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now that the dust has fffiiinnnaaaly.... settled!, why was the open differental eeeeevvvver... introduced by detroit in the first place? |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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the open dif alows a car to make a turn without scrubing the inside tires, |
mike martindale (Wetsu)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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dandon,do you have dealers in turkey?of either machine? i would check with them first,as to availibility of parts.as far as repairs,both seem to be fairly simple to fix.sometimes a little costly ,but well worth it( just my opinion).
i am an ARGO owner and yes they are actually 3 wheel drive,just like a 2 wheel drive is actually a 1 wheel drive.power goes to the side with the least amount of traction.however with a little slip of the brake the power transfers to the other axles.which in turn gets you out of a pretty sticky situation.to the best of my knowledge(which isn't that much)HYDRO-TRAXX is the only full time all 6wheel drive on the market today.how ever these machines are quite exspensive,but i believe well worth the money.just from what i've heard,maintenance is very minimal and you should be able to get replacement parts easily.
which ever machine you choose i'm sure you'll be happy with,they are a lot of fun. |
Greg W.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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To fella who was talking about using a cable operated ARB for the ARGO open type diff [can,t seem to find your paragraph again!],does ARB actually make a unit for this? Iwould be very interested in acquiring one. Please post an answer if you read this,Thanks! P.S. If anyone reading this has info on an ARB or similiar device for the open differential on the ARGO please respond.Thanks again. |
Eugene Kochnieff
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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Hi All,
As tempting as is might seem to fit a locking diff to an argo IMHO it would be very dangerous to do so.
While the diff is locked the argo would have no steering and this could be rather a problem. |
Howard Hoover
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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I don't see any problem with using a locker myself but I would use an air locker that way you could use it just by pressing a button and I would only use it while going through a deep mud hole for a short distance or something like that when you really need it you wouldn't be able to steer but you could still brake if you needed to |
Toman
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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I own a max2, and it is full six wheel drive. If somebody says its not theyre full of it. I dont have any problems climbing hills. I go up some pretty steep ones to. I wonder why i dont have any problems. hmmmm SIX WHEEL DRIVE!!! I was showing some locals what this machine can do and drove it up a hill that was probobly 45 50 feet and pretty steep. no problems and there was about 8 inches of snow on the ground. Then just to let them see a little I drove up the hill in reverse. Yup they are six wheel drive and pull independity. I guess david up there just doesnt know how to drive these machines. Unless hes got something totaly different. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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wheres your six wheele drive when adjusting coarse during your hill climbing,
gone huh!
yes a max with a t-20 will go to 3 wheel drive when you pull laterel back into nutral to adjust heading, this will not happen in an old attex with atv manufacturing co. trans, or for that matter in an ol amphicat ether, with ether of them you can aply diferent amounts of power to wheels to alow turning WHILE under power with ALL wheels.
A T-20 CANNOT, it is ether fully engaged, nutral or under full brake,
the real true fully 6 wheel drive tranys can aply vairing amounts of power and also are supreor to t-20 in they can aply varing amounts of brakeing, compleatly controlably,
if you cant tell the diference that's ok, some folks have, and can, and are compleatly spoiled because of this, i have bin discribed as a power user,
i truly feal each time i drive my t-20 vehicles the trany is clumbsy and clunky,
like the diference between an old farm truck and a 1970 RT chalenger,
id shur rather the RT,
it takes alot more work to drive that darn max without jaring my guts out that it dose with the supirior tranyed vehicles, something only posable with high power 2 strok,
i use nutral and alot of throtle insted of the brake, this of coarse leaves me without power to the wheels on one side whenever im turning,
so what am i missing?
hey i have some of my driveing on a demo video if youd like to juge for yourself if im some sort of rookie,
i'l send it to you free
david berger
daves atv videos |
roadwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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toman, the topic says "is argo really a 3 wheel drive?", can't you read? |
lone cooter
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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face it the argos look cool and are the best |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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David I think it's time you get in a brand new Max and learn the difference between the best and the rest. There is no question that the T-20 allows true six wheel drive turns when needed by partially disengaging one side. It also makes tighter smooth turns like a 4x4 ATV would. You can have one side in neutral and power the other side around, or drag one brake just a bit for a tighter smooth turn. The main issue is having true six wheel drive when you need it. Going up hills or through a mud hole. I have driven Maxs through places that required every ounce of traction the six tires could grab. Without the non-differential T-20, I would have been stuck in the mud right beside the other inferior ATVs. There's no exception to the rule, MaxRules. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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everyone,
with all these claims being made why don't we think up a standardised test to prove them????
for all aatv's.
shane |
Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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Shane,
Its easy. All you have to do it jack up one side of the atv. Give them gas and the Argo will spin the tires in the air and not move. A Max will go forward and most likely fall off the jack. Its been done before. |
One Mad Customer
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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Well I do not mean to add any fuel to the fire regarding this discussion, buy if any one is interested, you can watch a short video clip on line about this exact discussion.
Just go and visit Superior Off Road Vehicles web site at "www.maxallterrainvehicles.com" and then select the "Video Clips Page" and then click on the "Maximum Traction Comparison" video clip, to view a short video and see the difference in traction for the Argo versus the Max versus a Bobcat. The video clip shows and supports exactly what these guys are trying to tell every one.
Bottom line people you are paying far too much to buy an Argo product and you are not getting a true six wheel drive ATV. Just look at what has been going on these past couple of years, a large majority of the Argo Distributors and Dealers flat out refuse to negotiate their pricing, or fail to even toss in a extra here and their, just to make you happy. And this has happened during one of the worst recessions that we have ever experienced, even worse than the recession of the 80's, yet they still hold the line and charge full retail price for every nut and bolt.
That is flat out a bunch of crap people, and it is called quite simply gouging. I refuse to even buy an Argo now after seeing this crap going on. Do you want to know what our wonderfull local Argo Dealer/Distributor offered me at one of the recent shows, get this a one time deal show price discount for a fully loaded Argo, $200 off the retail price. What a joke man, I had to laugh at him and finally told him to just eat his Argo. I had stomach cramps for two days, from laughing so hard, after that great offer!
A couple of my buddies tell me the Max is a great machine, and a lot more value for the cost difference. They say it is a true six wheel drive machine. They also tell me that the Max is made in America, versus the Argo that is made in Canada!
I only have one thing to say about this subject, buy a product that is made in America, and tell Argo to get their tails back accross the border, until they decide to stop the price gouging for some thing that is not even a real six wheel drive ATV! |
CootDavid
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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Can some one explain how these older Attex or Amphicat Baker Hill transmissions work?
How can it be better than a T-20?
Unless it is a true dual differential drive.
Only a true dual diff drive will turn and apply power without loosing power. All others some how disengage power to one side to turn.
Thanks, David |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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david,
i do not agree with your comment on the t-20.
to adjust heading only requires a slipping of the clutch. the 6-wheel drive is still there. slipping the clutch slows that side down, still applying a "vairing amount of power" to the wheels. |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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Troy's right about 3 wheel drive, except for argo eight's, which make it 4! LOL
I have visions of a push button axle locker..
In the last week, I've driven countless skid steer vehicles. Bought Battlefield 1942, an online PC multiplayer game. You're a serviceman and get to shoot/drive/fly everything on both sides. Free game add ons give you present day weapons and vehicles. Driving the Abrams tank, with suspension, shooting on the run.. FUN! We get a group of guys on voice comms, play on same team, talk to each other sending voice over internet.
I saw an argo on the web once, was enclosed in plywood with gun slits, it was used on a paintball course. Think that would spice up our organized rides?? |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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TERRY MAYBE YOUR T-20 HAS THAT GM LUBE IN IT THAT HELPS DEFEAT PROPER SELF ENERGIZING BANDS,
STILL ISENT TRUE 6X6 AS THATS SUCH A SMALL AMOUNT OF CLUCHING AND NOT AT ALL RELYABLE OR USEFULL, WHERE DOSE THAT CLUCHING GO WHEN YOU NEED TO SLOWLY GO DOWN A HILL?, YOU TRY TO USE THEM BRAKES AND YOU MIGHT GO END OVER END,
THEM OLDER ATTEX TRANYS HAD A TON OF CLUCHING, WETHER ON THE FLY IN FORWARD GEAR OR EVEN WHEN YOU HEADED DOWN A HILL YOU GET ALOT MORE VARIATBLE CONTROLE, IT'S HOW MUCH VARIATBLE CONTROLE YOU HAVE THAT COUNTS, EVEN A GM LUBE DEFEATED T-20 IS SICK IN COMPARESON,
AND COOT DAVID YOU SORT OF ANSERED YOUR OWN QUESTION,
THE OLD ATTEX TRANYS DID IT THAT WAY AND USED DISC BRAKES TO ACTUATE THE DIFERENT SIDES OF THE DIFERENTIALS, THE AMPHICAT TRANY'S FAR MORE COMPLICATED, PREHAPS IT WILL SERFICE TO SAY THAT THEY USED A REAL CLUCH PACK FOR APLYING FORWARD POWER, AND A WET BRAKE BAND FOR LIQUID COOLED AND LUBRICATED VAIYABLE BRAKEING, THIS BRAKE BAND IS ON OUTPUT END OF A DIFERENTIAL, (POWER UNDER BRAKEING IS SENT TO BE WASTED THREW OPEN END OF OTHER DIFERENTIAL HALF,)AND FINALY THE REVERS GEAR IS A FUNCTION OF A TRICK THEY PULL ON THE BEFORE MENTIONED "OPEN END OF DIFERENTIAL"
THEY GRAB THAT SIDE OF DIF AND POWER TAKES THE LONG WAY THREW THE DIFERENTIAL AND TURNS THE RING GEAR BACKWARDS, YOU DO NEED TO REV THAT ENGINE FOR YOUR LIFE THOUGH, IT'S AN UPHILL BATTLE AGENSED THE GEAR REDUCTION AND YOU SHOULDENT BE SUPRIZED AT ALL IF YOU ONLY GET SAY THREE FEET BACKWARDS BEFORE THE THING STOPS, IT DOSE TAKE A STRONG ENGINE AND LOTS OF PRACTICE TO GO VERY FAR IN AMPHICAT TRANY REVERS, BUT MOST TIMES YOU ONLY NEEED ABOUT THREE FEET TO TURN,
FROM FACTORY YOU CAN ONLY REVERS WITH BOTH SIDES AT ONE TIME(STRATE BACK) BUT I HAVE SEAN PEOPLE CUT THE REVERS ENGAGEMENT LOOP IN HALF FOR THE ABILITY TO SELECT REVERS ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER, I ALSO TRYED THIS AND FOUND IT VERRY USEFULL MOD,
THE SHORT ANSERS "TRY ONE AND YOU WILL LIKE IT" |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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MIDWEST TO MAKE IT FAIR TAKE OUT THEM SISY SPRINGS FROM THE MAX AND ITL DO NOTHING WHEN REVED HUH, THE ARGO CAN RUN OFF THE JACKS TOO IF THE TRANY'S OPERATED LIKE YOUR SISY SPRINGS ARE OPERATING THE MAX VEHICLE, NETHER COMPANY HAS TRUE 6 WHEEL DRIVE TOO SELL, BUT I DO PREFER THE T-20 TO THE ARGO TRANY, BUT I LIKE THE OLDER ATTEX ATV MANUFACTURING COMPANY TRANS OVER THE T-20, AND IF YOU CANNOT FIND AN ATTEX AN AMPHICAT WILL DO, I THINK IN THIS DAY AND AGE WE SHOULD DEMAND OUR 2 LEADING AATV MANUFACTURES TRY TO DEVELOPE A REAL TRUE 6 WHEELE DRIVE, 1ST ONE WHO DOSE WINS! |
tom bledsoe (Tombleds)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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attn. one mad customer
I have owned several of both brands and am fully aware of the differences. I have read this board for 2+ years and I believe your post is the first one to provoke a post from me.
Each machine has its strengths and weaknesses of which I will not go into at this time.
A couple of things in your post got me worked up
#1 you must not be in business or you would not make comments on argo dealers not lowering their prices or throwing in enoughstuff to satisfy "you". If you checked into becoming a dealer you would find out it is not going to be a profitable venture per se. It is mainly people who do it for the hobby aspect since markups and volume are insufficient to create a really profitable business. Also if you like the max so much why were you trying to negotiate with an argo dealer!!!!!
#2 As far as recessions are concerned you are grossly mistaken about this being worse than the 80's. Not even close to the 80's not even close
#3 your comments about made in canada vs. U.S.
look around your house and throw out most of your appliances tv watches stereo clothes, toys,etc because they are not made in the U.S.
I wish they were but it is a global economy now so live with it. Canada is not our enemy
4. in the "traction video" if the guy operating would have bumped the opposite side brake lever then it would have run over him!!!! I know I made that mistake oiling the chains with one side propped up.
In closing I hope your stomach feels better after laughing so hard because I am sure this post will not make you laugh.
Please change your name to "one mad shopper" because a customer is defined as a regular or frequent buyer.
Good luck with your max purchase but please let the dealer make some money so he can be there in the long run for you. I have enjoyed all the maxes and all the argos that I have had through the years and I am sure you will also. |
One Mad Shopper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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Ok fair enough, I will call myself one "one mad shopper", rather than "on mad customer". In my mind it is one in the same. Now regarding the subject of experience in business, I will share with you that I am in marketing and sales and work for the General Motors Corporation in Detroit, Michigan. I think that I do know a thing or two about business and can accurately access the economic climate of past versus current economic conditions. I also do know when I see a very unfair hose job going on, given the current economic conditions that we have been faced with for over two years now.
Now obviously we cannot compare GM or Ford or DCC with the smaller companies, however, we can discuss the issue of not backing down from full retail mark ups during the very bad economic times like we are still experiencing today. You have to admit a one time show price special of $200 off the retail price was an absolute joke! He would have been better off to have kept his mouth closed, or said some thing like we are not doing so well these days, however, I can work some out with you on the side off the record. But no, the distributor/dealer was too stupid and smug to even think clearly. He had a guy standing directly in front of him, that could have bought a machine loaded valued at full retail approaching the $20,000 arena.
My best guess is, as a dealer he has about a 20% or better mark up, and also being a distributor he has the advantage of an additional 5% to 15% mark up best guess. Taking into account a $20,000 dollar machine with a dealer mark up of 20%, he had a $4,000 mark up to play with, and add in his distributor mark up of lets say 10%, he had an additional $2,000 mark to work with. This comes to about a $6,000 total mark up to work with a new potential customer.
Now this is were the fun a games and the talk of this being a hobby ends and a real substantial business deal began!
I am not aware of very many businesses period, that did well the past couple of years. The only company that I ran accross or even heard about that was not offering rebates or special deals to "shoppers" or "customers" was this outfit Argo.
I have nothing against Canadian based companies, however, I do have some thing to say about companies that think their product is so good they do not have to offer any type of deals or rebates ever. DCC tried to do that and announced it publically, they soon changed their minds. The Argo company has done it, and held the hard line through bad times, and they will probably pay for that mistake. They have probably pissed off and alienated more "shoppers" than you can even imagine or have any clue about!
But hey what the heck this all about having fun and enjoying a hobby right, and its not about making any form of substantial business deals right! And of course this is a global market where "people"/"shoppers"/"customers" have the right to shop around and choose what products they want to buy and from whom!
In closing I am glad that this note aroused you into responding, as I am sure it will aslo strike the nerves of other "shoppers"/"customers" that read these notes. It should, this is freedom of speech at its best, and I do think that other people do want to know when there is a hosing or fleecing conducted by any company.
People reading these message posting you have the freedom of choice to make deals and buy what you want any where. if the Argo company does not want to deal, then support and buy the products that are made in America! The American product is just as good if not better, and you will eventually force the companies that do not want to negotiate pricing to come around, and you have the power to put the hurt on them or force them out of business! And that is a fact!
The "SHOPPER" or "CUSTOMER" or "POTENTIAL BUYER", is number one period! |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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One Mad Customer on Monday, February 2, 2004 - 04:19 pm
"versus the Argo that is made in Canada!"
JUST WHAT IS SO BAD ABOUT THE ARGO THATS MADE IN CANADA MR ONE MAD CUSTOMER?
We Canadians make some great products that stand up for a longer time than some other products. ODG has been in business for a long, long time, probably longer than RI has been or pretty close to. Do you even own one of these machines? Everyone here has their own opinion. Don't judge oen machine vs another until you have tested both (If their is one thing I learned from this board its that- test before you bash!) Cut out your American VS. Canadian Crap! Some of us may be Canadian, and proud of it- David Keeso
Toronto, Canada |
Masteratver
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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Mr Shopper
Keep in mind we live in America where everyone is free to do what
they want (Mostly)
If Argo wants to hold line on prices then that is OK, you do not have
to buy the product. There are a few good things about holding prices:
1) Keeps used vehicles at a good holding value
2) Keeps owners from being mad about someone else
buying the same unit down the street for less
3) Keeps buyers from waiting for a better deal the next day.
If you really work for Detroit, then why hide your email?
And if you do work for Detroit then you understand why I
drive a Toyota Tundra truck, Good machine, good service
good resale, maybe Detroit should price there units a real
prices instead of having the poor customer had to do all the silly
dealing to get a real price. Or are you doing this so the "not so
smart customer" will pay too much??????
Masteratver |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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One other thing Mr Mad Shopper!
"They have probably pissed off and alienated more "shoppers" than you can even imagine or have any clue about!" ==just where are you getting your information. ODG wouldn't be in business if they weren't doing something right. So what if they don't drop their prices like other companies do. They quite obviously have their reasons, and I don't think they will change that until they see fit. To be honest with you, I find your comments very offensive, especially your remarks about Canadian products vs. American. YOu get a lot of stuff from us Canadians, and vise versa. Deal with it- but don't get under everyones skin about it. |
jdrummond
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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whether an argo is 3 wheel drive really isnt that important if you think about it. With a little practice, its easy to make it 6 wheel drive. I've owned my argo 6x6 for a few years and I'll tell you, as long as i dont get hung up, theres nothing i cant go thru with it, and thats without tracks. I havent driven a max yet, I'll bet they both can handle the same terrain. I hope some day I'll find a max owner near me so I can see how it handles. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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POSABLY MR MAD SHOPERS UNAWAIR OF TARIFS PEOPLE FROM OTHER COUNTRYS HAVE TO PAY FOR OUR GOODS AND ALSO TOO SELL THERE GOODS IN OUR COUNTRY, YES IT COSTS THEM MORE TOO SELL THERE ARGO'S HERE,
SO THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE BEHIND THERE STRICT PRICE CONTROLES,
THERE ARE PLENTY OF COMPANYS OUT THERE WHO DON'T EVER WANT TO DEVALUE THERE PRODUCTS IN THE CONSUMERS EYES BUT FOR ECONOMIC REASONES MUST EXEPT A LIL LESS TO TIDE THEM OVER OR SAY CLEAR OUT SOMETHING TO MAKE WAY FOR THE NEXT, ANYWAY MANY TIMES THEY OFFER A REBATE, THIS WAY THERE VALUE NEVER CHAINGES, YOU JUST HAVE A CHANCE AT A DEAL VIA REBATE, EVERYONES HAPPY, AND ALL STILL BELEAVE THE VALUE IS CORRECT, THIS COULD WORK FOR O.D.G. EXEPT FOR THE POLITICS BETWEEEN COUNTRYS, TAX WISE IT'S MUDDYING OUR PROSECTIVE , IF JUST A LITTLE |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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mad shopper,
there are 2 ways to make profit in business:
1 low price and sell a lot with low profit margin. this is for window shoppers.
2 higher price and sell less and a higher profit margin. cars, etc.
because these 6x6's are a small market with not many sales the salesman can't lower his profit margin much,
he has bills to pay, and business premises to rent you know.
and big car companies get $$$ kickbacks from the government for employing so many people, funding election campagns , etc.
shane |
Heather Durham
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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ONE MAD SHOPPER.......
I'm not trying to stoop to your level BUT I would like to state facts....One I would like to say, I really like to announce that I feel you are mistaken the Argo Dealer/Distributor for someone else...The fact is our first show of this year is today up in Birchrun Michigan...Second fact is we and our dealers have not done a Detroit Michigan show since 2002!!! I'm sorry you feel taken or disappointed, but FACT is we do give deals on accessories. NO we and our dealers will NOT break MSRP on machines, due to the fact we/our dealers do have overhead, employees, ultilities etc. to pay for!!!! If you know anything about having a small business then you would understand and know about the things the little bussiness have to do to survive! Yes the econmy is bad, We all do feel the HURT everyday!!! But fact is speaking for all our dealerships we do statisfy OUR CUSTOMERS!!!! So please don't compare a small business with GM, Chysler, or Ford!!!! There is no comparison!!! Third of all your comment about MAX being made in America and Argo are Candian made!!! Let me state this before going on about that, Im VERY PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN, and yes I WOULD LOVE TO BUY EVERYTHING AMERICAN MADE BUT FACT IS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!Getting back to your comment about where max is made at.....they are put together in NEW YORK!!! PUT TOGETHER NOT MADE !!! Pull parts off a Max and see where the parts are made from!!!!!!!!
POINT BLANK....dont be downing a country over IGNORANCE!!! MAYBE THATS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD TODAY>>>>>IGNORANCE>>>>>>>>
Last but not least your comment on the video Max vs. Argo, look at the video close......We will be inviting Max to our up comming rally in 2004!!! We then will see and demonstrate MAX vs. Argo!!!!!! HOPE you can make it there ONE MAD SHOPPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
P.J.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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Hey Mr. One Mad Shopper! You being the expert on advising people to buy only American made products and all, are you saying that no-one should buy a Monte Carlo, or Chevy Pick-up? They along with a lot of other lines of G.M., Ford, and Chrysler products are made in Canada. In fact, the #1 rated G.M. plant for quality manufacturing for the past several years is the one in Oshawa Ontario. Being a learned big-shot with G.M., shouldn't you know that? Our economies are inextricably intertwined (look it up in the dictionary). Most of what we buy up here in Canada is made somewhere else (mostly American). We have no problem with that. Do you really think that there is no global economy? If you aren't going to buy anyone else's products, what do you think will happen to your exports?
You call yourself a shopper. Why don't you do us all a favour and actually buy a 6x6 before you become an expert on them? |
bigtoe
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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I remember my first beer. |
terry harrison (Th3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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i was with my cousin in irving texas. we took one of my uncles tallboy budweisers out of the cooler and ran across the street to hide in the neighbors bushes and share it. i remember it like it was yesterday. |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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One Mad Shopper- Just one last thing from my mind- THINK BEFORE YOU SPEEK! (or TYPE) THINK ABOUT WHAT YOUR SAYING, THE IMPACT IT MAY HAVE AND THEN GIVE YOUR THOUGHTS. DON'T START JUDGING OTHER PRODUCTS BECAUSE THEY ARE FROM A DIFFERENT PART OF THE COUNTRY. TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I FIND YOU TO BE PREJUDICE AND INSULTING AND IGNORANT IN YOUR REMARKS AS I BELIEVE HEATHER DURHAM STATED QUITE CLEARLY! |
Bill Aras (Blueknightnj)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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(sorry, could not resist)
... and after WE think before we speak, thou shall do spell check ... |
DirtyHARRY
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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Haven't been here in a loooong time, and I drop in and find yet another flame war going on. Some things never change, huh. *SIGH*
I prefer Max over Argo. Others feel vice versa, and that's just fine. It's all good. Do what makes you happy.
My turn to vent...
If this One Mad Shopper guy is for real, then he needs to put up or shut up. You claim to work for General Motors, yet you spout off about ODG not giving proper price breaks for their product? Give me a break!
Well, Mr. General Motors Marketing & Sales employee, how many plants has GM shut down and moved south of the border to Mexico!? My mother lost her job after 32 years when GM decided to increase their profit margin by moving their production facilities to some sweatshop in Mexico. Thank you Bill Clinton and NAFTA! (NOT!) But hey, that's GM's right to do so, isn't it? Fair enough. But wait.......
Exactly what are GM executives doing with the HUGE profit margins they are experiencing now all vehicles that are built in Mexico - for a FRACTION of the cost? Anyone can tell you that the pay for a Mexican auto worker is but a fraction of what a Union worker in the US would be paid. It had to be a huge difference, or GM never would've bothered to move their factories down there. What's the cost reduction diff? 30 - 50% cheaper?? More??? Is GM passing the savings onto their customers? Are we buying more GM products because they are so much cheaper, being that production costs have been greatly reduced?? Do you see the GM corporate fatcats reducing their retail pricing 30 - 50% to reflect this reduction in production costs? F*ck no! They are pocketing the difference and laughing all the way to the bank at people who insist that we "Buy American!" What a joke.
I refuse to reward these bastards for taking away the jobs of thousands of Americans. I will NEVER buy a GM product, even though I can get a employee discount because my mother worked for them! Up yours GM.
I would rather buy a Nissan Titan than a Silverado. At least Japan is building it's factories over here (Michigan, Tennessee, Missouri) and putting Americans to work. Same thing with the Toyota Tundra (Illinois). When I buy a Titan or Tundra, I know that my purchase helps to put food on the table of AMERICAN workers. The profits go back to Japan, sure, but at least they are giving jobs to Americans, instead of taking them away, like GM and others, who still have the balls to call their products "American Made." Bah...
Any comments on that, Mr. GM employee???
[End of rant]
-Harry |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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Bill Aras (Blueknightnj)
Ya, Ya, I know the spellings wrong in my post- I had just woke up and still wasn't thinking about what I was typing- seems to happen a lot!
Somewhere above in these posts someone made a comment about MAX not being produced somewhere but assembled there. Doesn't RI make most of their parts and bodies for the machines? I thought they did. Do they actually make the T-20 tranny or just own the rights to it? |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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one mad shopper,
shouldn't it be "one mad browser" as you never bought a 6x6 from argo?
well if you say that argo are so high priced then that means there is a spot in the market for another 6x6
maybe you should shut up and design an aatv and get G.Moters to make and sell it.
shane
p.s can't reply for a few days so don't think i'm ignoring your brain response. |
Richard Lamp
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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The Response has a Briggs and Stratton motor. Isn't Briggs & Stratton an AMERICAN company? |
roadwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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one mad shopper, aka one mad customer, hey your my kinda guy! you really got the joint rockin'.
it works every time, meaning... bring up the 3 wheel drive thing, and the board will " definatley" light up!
but i have only one critisim, you really should put a return on your post. |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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Briggs and Stratton Vanguard Engines are made by Daihatsu in Japan. |
barryhh3f
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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As Michael J. Fox said in “Back To The Future”, “everybody knows that everything that’s good is made in Japan”. Or was that “any good”.
If you want credibility state sources and put you name on your correspondence.
My brother works for Boeing Aircraft. Who buys the majority of the big birds he works on? Japan. Who is the single largest group of people who play tourist in Alaska? Canadians. What country is Americas single largest trading partner? Canada. So do you think I had any heart burn buying a Canadian built ATV with a Japanese motor. Not a bit, I live in a world economy. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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road wolf,
so you support a dude that wants a aatv so cheap that the company makes no profit?
well i'm sure that argo wont make anything if they don't make a profit,
even charities make enough money to pay for thair bills.
as i said before, he's probably bought a quad by now,
just make sure he doesn't steal your rope when you tow him out of a bog.
shane |
jdrummond
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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road wolf, it would be great if the board actually lit up over that subjectbut all I see here is stupid crap over some guy thats afraid to spend his money |
leo robinson
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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David Kesso - Recreatives BUYS all of their parts - bodies, frames, gears, etc. etc. etc. as for the T-20, I believe that they own the rights/pattens but that they buy all the components.
RI assembles only. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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david k,
if i remember correct, i seen somwhere that borg worner make / designed the t-20.
shane |
JHOG (204.58.127.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 11:29 am: |
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Very stimulating |
JHOG (204.58.127.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 11:29 am: |
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Very stimulating |
david berger (Davidrrrd) (70.19.232.130)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 01:37 pm: |
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YAH MY DAD SHAIRED A BLACK LABLE BEER WITH ME WHEN I WAS JUST A LAD,
AT AN ELKS CLUB SOFTBALL GAME,
THATS WHY I NEVER DEVELOPED A TAST FOR BEER,
(BLACK LABLE = YUCK) |
philip w.cox (Philipatmaxfour) (216.208.194.29)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 05:51 pm: |
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DAVID MY DAD DRANK WHISKY AND HE WOULDN,T
SHARE IT!Philip w. |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.66.28.13
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 05:46 pm: |
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Which machine will turn on lawn and not chew up the grass? |
liflod
Intermediate Member
Username: Liflod
Post Number: 60
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 24.3.236.145
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 05:56 pm: |
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A hovercraft.
Skid steers skid to turn dragging at least 3 tires. If they have tread on them , they will tear up the lawn. You can reduce tear up by turning gradually or using tires with very little traction. It takes a little practice, just dont do any sharp turns and you will be okay. |
Anonymous
Posted From: 63.67.88.15
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 10:56 am: |
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a helicopter could turn on lawn and not tear up grass. i bet it would be hard on the trees though and maybe the powerlines, the lawn furniture, the pets, the roof shingles on the house, the paint on the car, and maybe even the windows facing the yard. |
Eric Hardcorn (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 64.12.116.199
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 05:41 pm: |
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Hi My name is Eric and I know you know your stuff when it comes to 6x6ers but i know nothing. An 4 wheeler outfitter ( and ex-max dealer) that lives near me has two max 2-passanger aatvs for sale. They have been is storage for sometime and they are willing to give me a good deal on one. The only problem is I really do not know what I am looking at. It is a max 2 seater. They claim it is a 2004 and that it is a 20 hp motor. Is this possible? It has less than 500 hours on it (because they have used it for themselves some) and would give it to me for 3500. They claim it is a 9000 dollar max. Is there a way I could get info on this? The serial Number is 18604 and it has 22-11-5 Rawhide III on it. Please help me on this! They have no liteature on it and I'm not sure what model it is and worth. They also said they would warranty it as normal. It also has a winch rollbar and no skid plate
Would this be a good deal? I have no experience w 6 wheels but am desperate to get into it. I just can't afford a new one |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon Price)
Intermediate Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 81
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.52
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 08:35 pm: |
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In June of 2003, I sold a Max II with a serial number of 18938. The Max you are looking at is almost 300 machines before that, so that puts it no later than 2002. The 20hp engine would be a Kohler. It's a great engine but has now been replaced by the 23hp Kohler.
500 hours is a lot, is that a typo or how did you come up with that? They should have a MSO (manufacturer's statement of origin) to show the year and ownership of the vehicle. I don't think they are being strait with you on the year so this paper is probably "lost". He should have the owner's manual and warrenty paper that comes with the vehicle. Without that warranty paper and because he is no longer a dealer, that Max is USED and I seriously doubt the factory will honor a warranty.
$3500 is a good price for a vehicle similar to what you describe. It doesn't sound like the vehicle really is what you are being told. |
Eric Hardcorn (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 205.188.116.8
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 08:04 pm: |
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Brandon
Thanks for your honest opinion. I wish I knew someone that has experience with that could look at it. Like you most likely do, I work hard for my money and don't like investing it in something that is "shakey". Maybe if I tell them the facts you told me, I could talk em down more-if I still was interested. Is there any tell-tale signs I could look for to get an idea on the condition and way this machine has been treated? Thanks- |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon Price)
Intermediate Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 82
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.19
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 08:43 pm: |
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The condition of a Max is most easily determined by pulling out the floorboard. See how clean it is inside. Are the chains rusty or clean and greased? That vehicle will have o-ring chains which should not require any adjustment for many hours. You can easily put over 50 hours on the machine before touching the chain adjustment (I've seen up to 100 hours). Drive train condition tells you everything about a Max. |
Eric Hardcorn (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 152.163.100.65
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 04:49 pm: |
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I am in the process of talking a price for this unit but am not sure. It is used and the dealer said they would give me a 1 year warranty regardless of manufacturer's. 20 horse, 3/4 tread, small bends in rims around tires[a few], chains appear a little rusty and the vehicle seemed hard to idle at first, Hardly ridden lately. Just on a flat guess, what could possibly be a bargin price on this? 22 in tires rawhide, winch rollbar, tape around throttle cable, what is this? - for waterproofing or something? Is this a bad sign? if so how bad? Thank you so much for help! |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon Price)
Intermediate Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 85
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.83
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 07:01 pm: |
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The $3500 price you stated before sounds like a good deal. If you can get them lower than that I'm sure you will do just fine. Use your own judgement on condition. It's impossible for me to know the value without seeing the vehicle (it's even difficult with pictures) but $3500 is a safe amount for anything close to what you describe.
No big deal on the throttle. It probably has the older plastic throttle lever that breaks easily. The old cable also has no seals, maybe that is what the tape is creating. That's only $31.55 for the lever and $33.15 for a new standard cable. |
Eric Hardcorn (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 152.163.100.65
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 09:01 pm: |
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Thanks for your advice. He tells me that it is easily worth 5000 but I am not sure about that. I noticed that the engine had trouble at first idling and it smoked at first after that though it seemed fine. The oil defenitly needed changed and the dipstick somewhat smelled "gassy"- anything to that? Thanks |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon Price)
Intermediate Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 86
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.83
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 09:24 pm: |
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You'd want to change the oil and filter if you get it, as I do with any used vehicle I buy. It could have gas in the oil which is definately not good. That usually happens when the carb sticks and continues pouring fuel in while the engine is off. Kohler even has a special shut off valve to help that problem, even though I've rarely seen it happen.
It is not uncommon for the Kohler to smoke a little when started cold with choke. Just make sure it clears up and runs smooth. |
Michael A Smith
New member
Username: Skidog800
Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.188.212.34
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 07:56 pm: |
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I am a newer Max II owner and have a 23 hp kholer in my machine. It pulls to the right when going down a trail at higher speeds, is this normal? if not how do you fix it?
Thank you
Mike |
Jerry R. Nuss, Max Dealer in Illinois
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 318
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.244.218.202
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 09:45 pm: |
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It could be several things. You might want to try it on level ground in case there is a slight grade to the trail. It could be normal at higher speeds if there is a slope to the trail. I get this when going down a road a full speed the crowning on the center of a road is enough to throw of the steering.
Some things to check:
Equal tire pressure in all tires
Make sure both control levers are pushed forward.
Ensure the weight is centered in the vehicle, a single person sitting to the side can alter steering.
Check that there is nothing wrapped around an axle.
If these don't help then you can jack it up with all six wheels off the ground and start spinning the wheels by hand in neutral and checking for mechanical problems. |
Dave Keeso
Intermediate Member
Username: Argomag
Post Number: 72
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 204.50.180.111
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 03:31 pm: |
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Another thing to consider is the wind. If you are running at higher speeds and its windy, it can also blow you around a little depending on how the wind is hitting you. |
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