| Author |
Message |
    
oncecoot
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: | 
|
I have a 2001 argo responce with 18 horse briggs. Has anyone swaped a 23 horse briggs? Are there any differences besides no recoil start? Was the money worth the power? And is it a easy swap? Thanks, Oncecoot. |
Timothy Schotanus (Mudbuster)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
I have seen a 23hp in an 8 wheeler. Be careful as it is a bigger block. You can get performance parts for the engine you have that just might surprise you by how much power you can get out of it. I have a modified briggs engine in my max feel free to e-mail me with questions or look up matt435 on here somewhere as he has a modified 20hp in his bigfoot |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
I think that an engine upgrade in any argo is an improvement. I havn't driven a new ARGO lately, but I know mine is 18 hp and its a Magnum. For a 8x8, 18 just isn't enough under certain conditions such as with tracks. I think that 23 hp will give you more power, speed and also the engine is probably a bit better. I have no expriance with briggs, but they are used in almost every machine you see, so they must be pretty good. |
argomike
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
Oncecoot,
I just took delivery of a new Vangaurd2 with a 23 hp B&S Vanguard. The Argo dealer here acutally thinks outside of "the box" and does engine swaps on new machines for a good price. Let me clear up a couple of things that have already been mis-stated about this engine/swap. The 23 HP Vanguard DOES have a recoil back up starter. The only thing the dealer had to do differently to the machine was change the weights on the clutch. I can't remember what he changed them to or if it was more or less weight.
The 23 HP B&S has a oil cooler, which may help keep HP loss through heat down a bit.
The bad part is that I have not had any time to take this machine out yet and get a feel for the difference in power from my old 1997' 16 HP Vangaurd2 I sold a year ago.
I am putting some 25" Rawhides on it this week and I hope to take it out this weekend (maybe). It should have plenty of grunt. This thing has 5 more HP than a Bigfoot and weighs about 150# less.
I think the big test is going to be next winter when I use it with tracks. I'll keep you posted. |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
The Vanguard will weigh more with rawhides.. think the runamucks are 13lbs and 25" RWIII's are 25 lbs. The extra layer skid plate.. and axle extensions, I guess would be most of the weight difference. |
argoguru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
argomike,
Just out of curiosity, does your dealer still do warranty work on your vanguard 2 after he voided to warranty on that engine swap? Just wondering.
I put the 23 in my bigfoot after my warrany was up. Big torque difference on the low end, but no more speed. He had to go to different exhaust flanges also.
You are also going to find your idler chains are going to stretch alot quicker with more hp, and if you go to bigger tires. good luck.
P.s. You will need the brake cooling fan in warm weather if you put bigger tires on, My buddy lost his on a ride on his van 2 with bigger tires. Food for thought. |
argomike
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
argoguru,
Now that you mention it I think he did say he had to do a little something different to the exhaust.
Thanks for the ifo on the cooling fan, I didn't know the bigger tires made that big of difference on the brakes. My old Vanguard never had a hint of brake fade, but the largest tire I could run were the 22x11x8 rawhides.
My dealer said that he would cover the warranty.
Have you run tracks with the 23 hp? |
argoguru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
argomike,
I have run my standard tracks with the 23 and that is were you can see the biggest difference with the 5 extra hp. |
mike martindale (Wetsu)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
wouldn't the bigger tires give him just a bit more speed,but take away from the low end torque?now i'm not sure about these 6wheelers,but from my hot rod days gone past.you could put the biggest engine in the smallest car,but if you didn't also build up or,change the transmission,or redo the rear end,no pun intended.but you were basicly just spinning your wheels.what i'm trying to say is;if you upgrade the engine and keep the same tranny,won't you keep the same out put to the axles?i know you 'l be putting more power to the trans,but it still will be the same gearing as with the 18 horse.which is why" i think" you didn't notice any change in speed.i may be talking through my hat,like i said i haven't done any modifications to my bigfoot and was just wondering if this would hold true for 6's.all of my 6wheeling "knowledge" has come from just 1 bigfoot,and what i have gotten from this post,and from face to face with other owners. |
argoguru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
Mike,
You are right about gearing, no change their, no speed difference, you will just get up to speed a little quicker with more hp. going to bigger, more aggressive tires you might pick up a little speed, but it will probably take longer to get to top speed. The fastest stock machine I have seen was a bone stock vanguard 11 argo with the 16 hp. and the gov. set at 4500 rpms at humphrey. that machine passed every other machine quite quickly. It had the runnamuck tires, they weigh next to nothing, and are the easiest tire for the machine due to very little tread. their was several bigfoots, max 11 and 1Vs in a race down the road for the fire hall, and needless to say we all ate that machines dust. |
mike martindale (Wetsu)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
man i would have liked to have seen that.a buddy of mine has a vanguardII and his is also quite quick.he can run rings around my bigfoot in a race,but i can still out pull him.so if i change the governer just a little i could actually get to top speed quicker?i don't nessecerally want to go faster, but i do want to get there in as little time as possible. i think 23mph is plenty fast for an old,fat guy that don't heal like he used to. |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
I played around with my stuff and and like it a lot better. Hooked throttle direct and shortened the amount of twist. I was happy to see the Argo clutches are adjustable/tweakable. I added a shim to increase the drive clutch's travel, now it pushes the belt out another 1/4", that = a higher top gear without affecting the low end gearing.
The driven clutch has 6 index slots for a spring that affects the rate at which the clutch opens up, ie how fast the clutch system can go from low to high. It is torque sensitive, and balances engine speed vs vehicle load. Anyway, I had a really low geared situation which took unnecessarily long to gear up.. I moved the spring from #2 hole to 5. That made the clutch system move from low to high quicker. It also affects the rate at which it "downshifts" under load. I backed it off to #4 because of this.
I have the GU trans which is lower geared than the MU( the code is stamped on the top of the trans), and I have short tires, so what worked for me might be different for a bigfoot with the MU and 25 tires. Now I get "through the gears" quicker without the engine all revved up and no place to go. That is, under a light load on the flats. If climbing, it still stays geared down and plenty of power.
I'm getting pretty quick with changing the spring setting, I carry the snap ring pliers and if we get bored, we'll play with your clutch, Mike |
RickMoMoBigfoot
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
Roger,Are you deepwater muddin this weekend? I'm leaving fri. after i get home from work.Won't get to the camp until late fri. early,early sat. morn.But i'll be there.If your there i would like to look at doing something like that to mine.Rick |
mike martindale (Wetsu)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
i think i got the throttle part taken care of when we at deepwater last time,you know when mine finally broke WHILE ME AND DAVE were up to our hoohaas in the middle of that mudhole.and then i had to drive us back with my thumb.any way when i put the new throttle cable and throttle on i adjusted it to when i hit the gas....i go. and have full throttle with less travel.do i need to bring the spot light? cause if we get bored it will most likely be very dark.we'll see how it goes. |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
Yeah Rick, late friday or early Sat for me, too. Bring your tapes. Your camcorder has rca video out jack like a phono plug?.. the projector takes rca or s-video. |
RickMoMoBigfoot
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
|
Roger,I got my ride footages on vhs and sence theres eletric I'll bring my vcr and rca jacks,extenion cord and video cam. .See i recorded on some of my 8mm tapes like kids school play,b-day ect...8mm has tons of good footage but i'm sure all is on vhs.Rick |
Laurier (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 216.168.101.49
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 10:18 pm: |
|
I have an ARGO BIGFOOT. I was wondering if anyone has tried to put a 28 hp Kohler Command pro CH 745 in to their ARGO. I had a look and think it should fit with out to much problems, mite have to buy a new hood for from the conquest or relocate the air cleaner box the motor is 2 " taller. The 24 hp Honda motor on the other hand will fit nicely, but I think the 28 would be better for 20 rubber tracks or even the super tracks. I have tried the escargot tracks they were very heavy and could not get the speed up on the conquest. I do not want to lose speed in the winter any thoughts? |
Laurier (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 216.168.100.74
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 07:51 pm: |
|
I am also looking at the 31 HP Vanguard motor. The air cleaner can easily be located near the blower for the brakes above the battery. I think I will buy this one and machine a new base to accommodate it. Do you have any thoughts? I am looking for best price on this motor, cheapest I have found is $1900. I will have the money set aside for Feb |
Vaughn Hurdsman (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 64.70.24.54
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 10:10 pm: |
|
Kohler has a new 30hp motor. |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 4.244.171.49
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 06:22 pm: |
|
I think the 25-30 hp vanguard is taller, and the crankshaft is larger diameter, so something will have to be done about the drive clutch |
Laurier (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 216.168.108.96
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 10:55 pm: |
|
The crank is 1 1/8 on the 31 hp vanguard. If I remove the round air cleaner and locate near the blower for the brakes this should give me the clearance for the conquest hood on a Bigfoot body. I want it to look like it is suppose to be their. I really like the torque on the vanguard over the kohler. Vanguard has peak of 61 and at full throttle it has 45. The kohler peaks at around 41. I will have to see a 31 hp Vanguard engine in person and conferm that it will fit. |
philip w.cox
Intermediate Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 74
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.208.194.54
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 07:57 pm: |
|
LAURIER, Check your figures friend. On B.&S. web site they show a maximum torque for the 31 h.p. briggs at 47.3 lbs./ft. at 2400 rpm. There is usually very little difference between the listed torque ratings of equal h.p. engines between B&S and Kohler since they both rate their engines' max h.p. at 3600 rpm.s Do not be misled by the figure for n.m./ listed beside the ft. lbs./ ( NM.s are the metric measure used instead of pounds /foot in the European system. )W.Philip Cox --( P.S. Mr. Clark has brand new 25 H.P. Kohler Command engines identical to the ones that came in the Max IV 900T that would save you some money.) |
Laurier (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 216.168.122.248
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 12:44 am: |
|
Thanks Philip, I have looked at the web site www.smallenginesupplier.com/html/engine-specs/briggs/543400.html. The graph shows 61 lbs torque at 1800 rpm and 45 lbs at 3600 rpm. I have not rule out the engines from Mr Clark but if I can fit the largest one with out to much modification I would like to go that way. Having said that if the 25 hp kohler with supper track in snow is strong enough and achieve top speed in open fields/ lakes, then I will not go bigger than the 25. It has to look like a factory install for my likings. I still would like to see the 31 first hand before I make my final decision. I will take all appropriate measurements from that point to confirm if it will work. Thanks for the info I like hearing from all of you it helps me draw a final conclusion and I should not have any unforeseen problems with that decision. It is always good to have a fresh approach from someone else. If the brigs 31 hp vanguard series 543400 does not work I will contact Mr Clark on one of his kohler engines. If someone is running the 25 hp with supper tracks let me know how that setup is working.
Thanks Laurier |
Anonymous
Posted From: 24.75.42.10
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 07:35 am: |
|
Philip is right, that website (smallenginesupplier) is wrong. The Briggs 31 has about 41.3 ft. lbs. of maximum torque. I don't know where they got their info from, but the Briggs 35 only has a max torque of about 52 ft. lbs. Also, be aware of the dimensions of the "Big block" Briggs engines (25hp-35hp) as they are much larger (especially in width) than your stock 18hp Briggs. |
Laurier (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 216.168.122.215
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 11:11 am: |
|
Thank you for the info, I will not put the 31 briggs in if it does not have the torque as per there graph. The extra weight to hp/torque will not be worth.I would still like to here from someone with the 25 hp and tracks to here how they perform with the new hp |
david berger
Senior Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 229
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.132.214.232
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 01:55 pm: |
|
hey all, don't forget the huge powerboost you get in briggs engine once a rev kit is installed!
you can put in a block that fits and squeez some extra juice from it with the rev kit like tim schotanus did with his. |
Vaughn Hurdsman (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 05:34 pm: |
|
I think that the new 30 hp kohler has the same foot print as the 25hp kohler. The 30 hp kohler is taller than the 25 though. |
philip w.cox
Intermediate Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 76
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 07:20 pm: |
|
Laurier--You are absolutely right ,the graph on the site you gave shows exactly what you said it shows. I don,t know how they get that. I see argo show the 2006 avenger witha 26 kohler engine instead of the 25 and a new high ratio trans. for track use. you might want to look up the Kohler command 28 air cooled engine that i"m dreaming about. It's the only model they have with E>F>I> and it puts out 25 amps instead of 20. W. Philip Cox |
Laurier (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 12:09 am: |
|
I may have to put the engine upgrade on the back burner for a few months. I'm in the military and was told I'm being transferred. I may have to wait until I'm move to the next place. I have a few things that need to be finish on the house before we can list it to sell. So for now I will keep checking things out and drooling until I can up grade. As I figer things out I will keep posting them to make sure I do not over look anything.
Thanks Laurier |
philip w.cox
Intermediate Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 78
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 08:46 pm: |
|
Laurier, Priorities keep popping up in most of our lives. Good luck with your move and selling your home. Check back with us when you can and don,t sell the Argo! W.Philip |
Laurier Deschambault (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 07:24 pm: |
|
I will keep visiting this web site. I will not sell the argo, I enjoy playing in the mud and going place most people can not.
Thanks Laurier Deschambault |
Bill Straub (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 02:21 pm: |
|
David - What is the rev kit? I'm looking for a way to get a couple-few more HP from my Vanguard 18 H.P. I was thinking of intake and exhaust mods. - nothing crazy. Do you know what can be done to tweek this engine and what HP increase to expect? |
david berger
Senior Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 235
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 05:14 pm: |
|
garyb1@ici.net (ATLANTIC POWER 800-4565-5692)
or
PKI@PERCART.COM(AL HODGE )???-291-7825
SORRY THATS ALL I HAVE LEFT ON THE SCRAP OF PAPER I SCRIBBLED THE INFO ON,IT IS CONTACT INFO from briggs raceing, they have the rev kits, everything from heavy duty con rods to chrome molly valvetrain components!
tim schotanus here on this bord has don his briggs up and it is a monster!! |
Bill Straub (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 02:55 pm: |
|
Al Hodge owns Performancevtwins.com. The rev kit includes beefier rods, guides and springs. Al told me the stock configured Vanguards (mine is the 18 hp)can rev to 4,200 no problem. They should never go over 4,500 but most are set well below the 4,200. Easiest way to get more speed is to bump the gov. up to allow the 4,200 rev limit. The rev kit ensures the weak link in these engines holds up. Another way to get another 2 hp is to upgrade to a 2bl carb - that is the only real difference between the 18 and 20 hp versions. He sells a beefed up 18 that puts out 25 hp for $1,400. You can do it yourself and go nuts and expect to get 35 - 40 hp. out of the 18 or 20. Like everything else, its time and money. I would expect that for less than a grand you could upgrade the carb, intake, exhaust and install the rev kit. That would get you into the mid 20's. |
david berger
Senior Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 241
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 04:06 pm: |
|
thats right bill, and lets not forget once you replace the week components in your briggs with the stronger ones you no longer have a lawn mower engine, you have a vehicle engine!
so after you install a rev kit bypass your govener. your new motors going to be safe to 6000 rpm!
under a load you might not get all the way up there to 6000 but you will get to scoot along just as you would expect from a vehicle, insted of being held back by a lawn mowers govener! |
Shop Talk: Tech Tips and Q&A section