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Michelle Smith (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 70.150.134.2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 08:50 pm: | |
My husband just bought an old '89 Max IV and has been trying to learn his way around on the thing.
Yesterday, he tried to shift (from reverse to forward) while on a slope. Once it shifted in to "nuetral" he lost all control and the thing went flying downhill backwards, gaining speed. There was nothing he could do, so he and his friend had to bail out and let it go. Fortunately, it stopped just short of going over a cliff with a 20 foot drop-off. (It hit some trees!) Surprisingly, he got back in it and drove it out of the brush, over huge logs and back up the slope. I wathced the whole thing and it scared the heck out of me!
What did he do wrong? Are we not supposed to shift from FWD to Reverse (or vice versa) on an incline?
We're both scared to get on a slope again! |
MATT WALLIN
Junior Member
Username: Lawdog
Post Number: 16
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 207.68.116.138
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 08:45 am: | |
Michelle, I had the same thing happen this last saturday. My trans support bolts loosened up and started jumping going up a long steep hill. when I thought I was at a level enough place I went to put it in reverse to lock the t20 trans in brake mode. Well I did not realize the trans had moved enough the linkage would not engage reverse. It stuck in neutral and there I was going backwards down the hill. I bailed out and got beat up by the forest. My problem was a little differant becuase of the mechanical malfunction. If your parking break has any hold in it (mine barley works) use that for a quick hold. When shifting from either forward to reverse or reverse to forward, put steady pressure on the shifter and use the other hand to rock the stearing controls (latterals)back and forth a few inches.This helps the machine go in gear. I suggest trying this on the flat first. They usualy go between gears a little rough. Rocking the machine back in forth with your body helps on the flat as well. That motion is harder on a slope. It takes some work and practice but after a while you can shift fairly quick. |
Charlie Richmond
Junior Member
Username: Csrichmond
Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 206.66.249.2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 10:47 am: | |
I hope you get a lot of suggestions and you should 'cause every hill situation is different.
With a T20 transmission in neutral you have no braking function in the transmission just as you discovered.
MAX's have a parking brake with marginal performance as a parking brake when new or kept in good condition.
I prefer (if it can be done) to swing the machine 90 degrees to the slope before attempting to go from forward to reverse so gravity can help the parking brake.
The other option is to ease back down hill by managing the laterals instead of trying to shift into reverse.
In other words, get inovative and use the T20 brake bands to your best advantage and practice, practice, practice. |
david berger
Senior Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 377
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 72.72.24.192
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 11:06 am: | |
i have backed down some slops while still in forward gear simply throtling down and holding the laterals forword i let it roll backwards and throtle up a little now and then so cluch slows or stops me gently.
this is far and away the most controle you can have when backing down a slope. the trany brake band would jar you sensless if you got any speed on your trip down.
when you get to where you wish to turn and drive it down it is no trick as your in the right gear for that job already. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 175
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 11:49 am: | |
Michelle, The first thing you need to do is call RI and get an owner's manual (their number is on the metal identification plate that gives the model and serial number and is riveted to the body - on the dash of the Max IV - on the left side above the seat facing forward on the Max II).. A skid steer is like no other machine and EVERYONE needs to learn how to operate one correctly to be safe and to get the most out of the machine. Learning to drive a Max right takes a small investment in time. but it pays big dividends in performance.
Yes, there is no steering lever control when the transmission is shifted into neutral and one SHOULD NEVER SHIFT GEARS ON A SLOPE unless you have dug holes that will hold you in place or your holding brake is engaged and working. The T-20 does not always give an easy shift and body rocking is required often. It is also important to make sure the tranny is completely in gear ( you can feel it seat when it is engaged) and that the linkages are not bent. If the gears are not completely engaged, the tranny can pop out of gear when climbing or descending which is not a good thing.
Charlie Richmond's above post "the other option" should be your first option. Learn how to control the machine just using the steering laterals (fully or partially engaged - I call it slip steering or slip braking). Leave the machine in forward gear and allow the machine to roll backwards using the throttle to control the rate of decent. If the engine has died, use the tranny brakes (pull the laterals all the way back) to control the speed while coasting backwards.
It takes time behind the sticks (about fifty hours) to be proficient. Unfortunately, many never take the time to learn how to drive a Max (skid steer in general) and they miss out on much of its abilities - others just sell the machine or let it sit and use something else.
We all seem to try the hard stuff before we are ready. It does not take long to realize that a Max is a different kind of animal and once tamed, "nothing else will do". |
Jerry R. Nuss, Max Dealer in Illinois
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 334
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.124.12.95
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 03:01 pm: | |
I made a reply last night but it didn't go through. Fred is right on the money with his post. |
jim stefanowicz
Member
Username: Maxindetroit1
Post Number: 31
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 70.236.148.29
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 03:46 pm: | |
Michelle, first off, glad nobody was seriously hurt, thats always a plus. Dont get discuorged, it takes practice, practice, practice to learn how to drive these things, but the time is well worth it. Practice on small inclines and alot of room for the slip steering and breaking. These machines do not shift well when on a incline, never try to shift when on an incline unless you have no other choice, it will shift easy into neutral, but very hard to shift into gear when on a run away train, they are hard to get into gear enough when on level ground sometimes. Never give up being in gear when in a situation like that, unless there is no other choice, by shifting into neutral, you give up control. Good luck, be safe, and practice! |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 181
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.208.194.8
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 11:27 pm: | |
Michelle, I hope your husband does what Fred says. I also hope that you start to carry a camera EVERY time your husband heads out. The pictures can be priceless. ask my wife! W. Philip Cox |
fredsainarkansasargodealer (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 67.54.201.40
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 03:17 pm: | |
Michelle, If you find it hard to rock your Max back and forth to get it in gear, while flying backwards down a hill. You could always try an ARGO. |
david berger
Senior Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 384
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 72.72.92.214
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 06:01 pm: | |
fred thats not nice, timokeefe and i were nearly killed rolling uncontrolably down a steep hill in his bigfoot when his knee acidently poped his trany out of gear, any atempts to use his brakes just tosesd uss almost out or in my case actualy high above the vehicle, it was back under me when i landed but i landed on the side of the vehicle where brused my butt badly, the bigfoot bounced like a toy down that hill,some of its on video but the connections were broken one of the times i hit the argo with my body ~ so that was an uncalled for and cairless remark, tim okeefe also could not get his trany back into gear too,as evedenced in the video sownd track witch did continue threwout the incedent, at least recreatives has an axel brake that might slow you without the bronco bucking motion that can throw people out in frount of the vehicles leading to there own vehicles running them over |
Eddie Beddingfield (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 152.163.100.65
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 10:19 pm: | |
David , I think what fred was saying is that some AATV's are easier to operate than others. There is no learning curve on an Argo,and you dont have to rock it to shift gears. What happened to Tim was an accident not a design flaw.Even though it was out of gear it had brakes,not every situation will cause the bucking you saw. |
david berger
Senior Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 385
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 72.72.92.214
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 11:20 am: | |
i dont know eddie, i have wred it over more than once and the "while" it has in it seams just plain sarcastic to me.
i thought at the time that it was both an acident and a design flaw,
seamed not to difacult to make a lever so it had to be lifted out of a notch and moved one way or another per your choice of selection and then droped into another notch, seid so to tim, as per this line of discussion we were talking about ON A HILL , correct me if im wrong.
id be willing to beleave this might not be so tough to handle in a new avenger becaus the stearing brakes are machanicly managed and might not through you out, wheeas it is inposable at a high rate of speed to manage argo stearing with brakes alone, the pivoing motion of the diferential works agenced you, but i dont think it'l happen in an avenger, not knocking em, after all you dont have them at all if your out of gear n a max, just the foot brake, wich in some is fairly good,
why cant one of these companies put hydralic axel brakes on the left latereal? |
Eddie Beddingfield (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 207.117.33.134
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 11:52 am: | |
David, The brakes are the same on an Avenger, they are only activated differently,So they respond the same.In a bucking situation you should activate one or the other and kind of skid sideways. It is a feel and experience thing. One thing I did on mine is get rid of the huge shift knob and put a small ball on the lever. You can shorten up the lever to by changing the bolt position,the factory puts two holes in the lever( or they used to). |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 177
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 12:16 pm: | |
Yes, Eddie, some ATVs are easier to operate than others, and some ATVs perform at a superior level (once the operator has invested the time to learn how). Why would anyone buy a bicycle (or ATV) with training wheels that cannot be taken off? A max does take a few hours to learn its idiocyncracies and then you have a machine that gets more capable each time you use it - with an Argo, it is easy to drive right from the get go, but as you get more confident and ask for more, you are still left with the same overweight, front heavy, underpowered machine.
I think even Argo reccomends that the owner read the owner's manual an familiarize themselves with the controls and how the machine works before they operate it. And to start on the easy stuff!!! |
david berger
Senior Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 388
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 72.72.92.214
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 12:17 pm: | |
tim did his best, each time he hit one or the other the wheels on the oposet side got higher and higher off the ground, yes he was trying to keep the nose in a rolling forward direction but sideways was out of the question for certin here folks, his bigfoot has no rollbar and wheels up was almost a certinty every second he fought to prevet it from comeing true.
i'l pass the tip on shortening the lever on to tim.
he cant alwase prevet his legs from doin stuff like that caus he cant move em or feal them ether.
they get into mischif that way. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 178
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 12:25 pm: | |
Eddie, What's this - feel and experience needed on an ARGO. Heaven help us all!!
And something is wrong with an ARGO!! That must have been a misprint. |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 115
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.234.48.184
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 07:24 pm: | |
The deal is, Argo's brakes work so good, they are touchy.. reminds me of a 1970's american car with power brakes that you had to be careful not to lock them up. On the steep stuff, I'll slide down in the seat, push the knees into the dash to brace the body. That leaves arms free for finesse braking/steering.
I think the max neutral=no brakes deal is pretty far out there in design. If they're gonna do that, it should have a rock solid foot brake. If I get a max it'll have one if I have to build it myself. |
Marc Stobinski
New member
Username: Jerseybigfoot
Post Number: 8
Registered: 06-2000
Posted From: 68.193.116.132
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 09:42 pm: | |
My 2004 Bigfoot brakes require no pressure at all and require excessive concentration going down long steep hills. My 1980 Hustler is better. Sorry to say but my 1970 Scrambler goes down hill faster with alot more control than either of them. I am currently fitting a disc brake to the converter on the Argo to fix the sensitivity issue. |
david berger
Senior Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 392
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 72.72.67.197
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 09:01 am: | |
great idea marc, try a hydralic system like on motorcycles & quads with the hydralic master on left latereal- throtle on the right. just like thay should come from the factory. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 183
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.208.194.7
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 11:41 am: | |
HI Rogersmith, Re: "rock solid foot brake". It is more widely known than I would prefer that my machine could benefit from one of these. The problem requires two solutions First-a rock solid disk brake needs to be hydraulic, Second it needs to be hand operated off of the left lateral as Mr. Berger says, especially in the Max IV, where a big guy or a tall guy can,t easily get his left foot up onto the mechanical foot pedal. Since Maxes now use a disc brake wouldn't it be great if somebody sold a kit like the front wheel on a motorcycle! Maybe Recreatives have heard the pleas? |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 184
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.208.194.7
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 11:48 am: | |
HI Rogersmith, Re: "rock solid foot brake". It is more widely known than I would prefer that my machine could benefit from one of these. The problem requires two solutions First-a rock solid disk brake needs to be hydraulic, Second it needs to be hand operated off of the left lateral as Mr. Berger says, especially in the Max IV, where a big guy or a tall guy can,t easily get his left foot up onto the mechanical foot pedal. Since Maxes now use a disc brake wouldn't it be great if somebody sold a kit like the front wheel on a motorcycle! Maybe Recreatives have heard the pleas? |
fredsainarkansasargodealer (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 67.54.201.40
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 12:39 pm: | |
Come on you guy's! I new better than to send that post. The Devil made me do it!!
David, it is very hard to knock a Argo out of gear , your friend must have hammered it, and still it had to be a heck of a hill to not be able to use your brakes. From about 2000 on the Argo tranny has the guides to hold them in gear, and that can be added to older Argo's. Maybe the guides would help your freind. |
david berger
Senior Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 393
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 72.72.67.197
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 04:01 pm: | |
well tim and i were flying threw thoughs trails, when it became a slope we continued to drive into it fearlesly,
then it became a bit ugly on us.
it's not hard to beleave his legs might hit the controle hard enoph to knock it out cause he is unable to feal them and we were bouncing a bit already.
i think he takes it easyer now when he see's trails become ski slopes,
he just wanted to keep up the speed because i was makeing a video from his bigfoot |
Marc Stobinski
New member
Username: Jerseybigfoot
Post Number: 9
Registered: 06-2000
Posted From: 68.193.116.132
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 09:33 pm: | |
Dave that's what I have under development, You need a Snowmobile hydraulic master so it's set up left handed. The Disc is for a go kart and the caliper is a Wilwood single piston unit. I have a stub shaft mounted to the converter hub and the caliper bracket is mounted to a bearing on the sub shaft with adjustable torque arms mounted to the chassis. The plastic firewall has to be modified for everything to fit. Hope to have it finished for Copper Ridge. I have another project I am building for Copper Ridge just for them smokin 2 stoke types. |
david berger
Senior Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 394
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 72.72.67.197
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 09:05 am: | |
cool and cooler |
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