| Author |
Message |
    
hector fausett
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Yesterday my father, brother, and I got my new Argo conquest 8x8 with super tracks and ice cleats stuck in deep powder (3 to 4 feet). The road we were on followed a side slope due to excessive snowfall which made the Argo almost impossible to steer up hill. We just kept sliding off our intended course and had to constantly backup and re adjust to get back on the road. We decided to turn around after approaching the bottom of the canyon when things looked worse ahead. We got stuck when I spun the machine around and tried to head back up hill(the only way out). Thank goodness for a snow shovel, my brother's snowshoes and the winch. We were high centered and the tracks were making almost no contact with the snow. We were able to unstick ourselves after creating a gradual slope of packed snow in front of the Argo to allow it to climb back on top of the snow. However as we were climbing out we still kept slipping toward the down hill side. I would estimate the hill to be about 10 to 15 degrees. Has anyone handled a similar situation? I never thought I'd get stuck in snow with super tracks. Maybe it was the consistancy of the snow(dry deep powder with a light crust). Please reply, I like riding in this particular area but don't want to repeat this experience. Thanks. |
JOHN GLENN
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
YOUR PROBLEM COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED IF YOU HAD THE ABILITY TO INCREASE YOUR GROUND CLEARANCE, AND
HAVE THE ABILITY TO RAISE OR LOWER EITHER RIGHT OR LEFT TRACK, THERE IS SUCH A MACHINE. GO TO LINKS AND TOUCH ON AMPHIBITRUCK. |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Everything has it's limit, you were in yardstick deep powder. I played in the Rockies one winter, 8 wheel w/super tracks. Bought a pair of snowshoes, realizing I couldn't get out of the vehicle without them. Sounds like the tracks did ok except for the lateral sliding. |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
What tends to happen with the 8x8 ARGOs and tracks is that you can't accelerate fast enough with tracks to get enough momentum to get you moving up the hill. The argo will slip a little if you don't have the exact speed right and it won't take you long to get it right. The key is finding out the point where the tracks slip and the thing to note is the snow conditions. If the snow is that sticky stuff that builds up on the tracks, and then keeps building up like a snowball, it will slow you down and make it harder to get up the hills. If you are traveling with another machine, offset their tracks and make a wider path where to avoid getting stuck. What also happens is that the snow WILL compact no matter what anyone says, but only to a degree. However, when you go back over that same spot, it has already been packed down, it makes it harder to go over. The same thing happens sometimes with me in sticky mud. YOu may get across once, but unless you are really lightweight (this is where MAX may have the advantage) and can keep on top, it won't go. Tracks do have limitations, and won't always perform 100% as conditions change. You will get the hang of it soon enough, and keep in mind, if you just got your machine, you have to gain some experiance (unless you have prior experiance)
Good luck and keep at it. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
hector fausett, I use Max (with their 15" wide solid rubber belt that has a waffle pattern tread) so don't have the problem you mentioned except on icy surfaces. I will offer some deep snow and traversing incline tips that might apply to Argos, too. (1) Always make wide easy turns. (2) When you have to do a 180, drive up hill first and back down hill while making your turn. (3) Try to never spin a track and if you do, stop immediately and back up. (4) When going back over the same area, straddle one of your tracks (so drive close to one edge if you are on a road or trail) so you have less snow under you. (5) try to plan your trip so that you go uphill first (I know that isn't always possible, but try to stay on the highest ground you can, because it is always easier to go down). (6) Use ice cleats only on icy surfaces - in deep powder you don't want anything digging, EVER. (7) When traversing an incline (any ground conditions), keep as much weight (passengers and load) as possible to the uphill side and again, stay as high as you can. (8) Don't EVER spin a track and if you do, stop immediately and back up. (9) Try to keep your machine weight (front to rear) balanced or with most of your weight toward the back of the machine (hard to do with an Argo, I know). (10) don't carry any more weight than necessary because the lighter your total weight, the more flotation you will have. Sometimes it takes only the driver (and the smallest person available) to break trail first and make a track or two before taking the rest of the load. And finally (11) Don't ever spin a track and if you do, stop immediately and back up. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
"this is where max may have an advantage"",
yaaay, david k praised max, lol.
shane |
JOHN GLENN
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
THE REASON YOU BECOME STUCK IS PURE AND SIMPLE,
IF SNOW MUD OR WHATEVER BUILDS UP UNDER THE BODY
TAKING THE WEIGHT OFF THE WHEELS OR TRACKS, ALLOWING THEM TO SPIN WITHOUT PULLING. YOU NEED
AN ATV WITH A HIGHER GROUND CLEARANCE. |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Higher ground clearance wouldn't help in Hector's condition. He said the snow was 3-4 feet deep. Do you plan to cruise around in an ATV with four feet of ground clearance? It doesn't matter if you increase the clearance from eight inches to eighteen inches, it will bottom out just as quick. I've driven tractors with several feet of clearance only to bottom out just as quick as an ATV (you are also stuck ten thousand times worse). The only solution is lighter weight and more floatation. Buying a Max is of course the best solution, but not one that is going to help Hector. I believe time behind the sticks will enable him to avoid getting stuck in most sitations. I think he will get around real well once he puts some hours on the Argo and learns how it wants to be driven, what terrain to avoid, and just how far you can push its limits. |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
I don't know if it came up in the other topics yet, but I just came back from the cottage today and I decided on Tuesday night (when I got up there) that their was enough snow on the ground to warrent tracks. I was origionally told by the guy that does our service on the ARGO that because the axle bearings are in dire need of repair, I likely shouldn't put them on unless I really need them and if they go on, use extreme care. I did have a chance to do some testing based on what Hector had said about getting stuck in 3-4 feet of snow. I found that, as Dave said, don't let the tracks spin at all. As soon as you do, you move the snow from under them, and odds are, you are already sitting on a pillow of snow under the machine. In all the conditions I tested mine in, I found that you can 9 times out of 10 reverse after getting bogged down going forwards. Just do it slowly and if its not going, and not spinning, give it and it will come out easily enough. Turning in snow (deeper the harder) requires a bit of a different technique. Although you can turn on the spot, you will likely end up sitting there with the throttle wide opened and pushing a lot of snow with the side turning. Just take small turns, back up (turn while you reverse), and keep going like this until you are in the direction you want to go (like Dave said above.) I ran mine through a drift that was higher (by about 2 feet)than the front of the ARGO. What I did was take it straight on, and just go slow the first time and see how far up you get. As soon as you feel it slip, stop and back out onto the flat ground again, and if their isn't a drop on the other side of the drift, and its not too steep, go up at half to 3/4 throttle in hi gear and it will go up. If you bog down after this, simply reverse, and when you get back up, alter your course slightly so you are breaking down the table of snow under the machine and keep going. You will push a lot of snow, and this slows you down a lot, but often, if you have the right conditions, and a straight away, give it full throttle, and make as few steering corrections and you can get it running at the same speed you can while running on just wheeeles in the summer on a flat road. I figure that with an 18 hp engine, and standard tracks, if you get it going full out, you are down already to about 16 hp left and any steering correction you make, you loose most of your power right there because you have to push a lot of snow to move. Thats why as dave said above again, quick, steering corrections are best, you loose less power and its not as hard on everything. I can't really say with the super tracks but they should be able to float better in snow because they are wider.
Hopefully this helps some and i havn't messed up my explanation like i tend to do. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Oh ya, Shane, I did in fact praise the MAX for once. But don't take that the wrong way, I have yet to get behind the controls of one and test it out. I hope to someday soon and if I do, I will honestly believe in it and try not to take the negative side. Its just that, to me, and theirs a lot of inexperiance there, and not much technical know how, I would have trouble trying to figure out how the thing worked and by what I have heard, it seems like their are way too many parts in a MAX that can break- like these bands and plunger things. Not that an ARGO can't break as easily, but maybe I have just noticed more Max problems or have accidently overlooked the problem argo discussions. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
david,
good to hear,
i don't fully understand things untill can get my hands on them and pull it apart,
if it goes back together then i understand it, ha ha lol.
i looked at max and argo, and said i can do better for the money by making it myself.
this way i can put any thing iwant.
i'm making my own engine, trans (or using a car diff, depending on how secessfull it is) and the rest.
to me argo and max are equal in complication,
but the argo does seem to require les adjustment.
the only trouble i see with max is you need to know what you're doing to PROPERLY ajust the bands for good power up hill.
i highlited properly so no one gets on here correcting me on max.
shane |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Shane, Im The exact same way. YOu can tell me something till im blue in the face, but I likely won't get it (providing its something technical like an engine or something= it all depends on what we are talking about) but I will likely get it once I have seen it working or taken apart to see exactly how it works. I think they call it Keenasthetic learing- spelled very wrong, but oh well. Learn by doing.
Im beginning to think that their will never be piece between the ARGO and MAX owners, especially if I have a say (just kidding- I've said it before, If I had an opportunity to test out a MAX and was also given time to really learn how to drive it, I would try to do it with all prejudice left at home. I have an ARGO, I like having it, don't want to get rid of it anytime soon, but if I was given another vehicle, I wouldn't scrap it because of what I have heard about them, I would try it out and really compare the two. I actually am looking for an ATTEX that is in working condition at the cottage now, so I can really get a taste of 6x6 history at its best. In addition, I think it was late last week that I even stated that MAX may be the better machine when it comes to MUd and boggs where its hard to get through because of digging into the muck. The max is lighter and may get through better. I hate using my ARGO in mud because I always seem to get stuck because I can't keep it going enough. I am starting to get better at it and I know that when you find the speed that gets you through, you stay there and don't spin your wheeles. I am also trying to find a MAX dealer in the Toronto area so I can go for a test drive and see what they are like. |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
By the way, I finally got my pictures back from when I was at the cottage this past week and the one I took of the thing i use to get the tracks on turned out (Didn't think it would because of the light) I also checked to see what size the socket was that you needed for the puller. Its a 15/16ths socket and you need a half inch drive to do it. You also need a universal joint or whatever they are called (you'll see in the pic when I post it.) Then an extension piece. WHat you do is block up the ARGO, and lay the tracks under the wheeles, don't deflate the tires any unless they are above 3 psi. I find the best tire pressure is 2.5 psi with tracks on, this allows them to deflate a bit and expand a bit depending on temperatures. Then with the puller, just get the ends together, and drive the pin through, put the collar in with the little screw in piece (unless the new tracks don't have that thing anymore-not sure, mine are over 20 years old now. It only takes about 15 minutes to get both on, re-inflate the tires (if you deflated them) and be on your way. I found out the hard way that if you just drive onto the tracks and pull them together, they don't go on evenly, kind of like a new chain, if its not blocked up, their is more tension on the top or bottom and it stresses everything. I'll scan my pictures tonight and post them on my site, then put a link up on here. Anyone looking for snow- come to Toronto, we are getting hit pretty hard with the biggest storm of the season. Its pretty hard to believe, at new years, people were walking around here with no coats, now they are getting stuck everywhere, and their is a 2 hour wait time for a tow truck. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
dave,
the attex were grate in thair day but need all new parts now due to wear,
so unless you know what you'r doing i guess you will learn the hard way,
i wish they made new attex'es (but as big as argo), that would be the best.
they probably got through more snow without tracks.
shane |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Ok, I finally have the picture I have been trying to get posted for a few days now. This is my method of getting the tracks on the ARGO. The link below will take you to my website and its the picture on the very bottom of Photo Page 1. Its the only one with tracks so you'll find it.
The link is: http://argomag.50megs.com/images/track_puller.jpg
Does anyone else have one of these? ODG sells them with the tracks! |
Dave Evans (Dozer911)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Hey Dave, do you loose power going up hills with traxs?We are getting alot of snow here in Pennsylvania about 18" |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
I have added a few other winte pics on my site in addition to the one above that I mentioned. They are on photo page 1 on the far right side near the bottom. Let me know what you think- i am adding a bunch more tomorrow from the same week at the cottage- I hope to go up again in 3 weeks when their is more snow and get even better pics. |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Dave Evans, Yes, you will loose power going up a hill with tracks on for sure, but not enough to stop you. The only time I can't get up some of the hills is when the engine is still running really cold in -15 celcius weather. Then it tends to just not move much at all and the tracks also tend to need to thaw out also. Go to my website www.argomag.50megs.com and go to the picture page 1. Look at them all and their is some of the ARGO with tracks on going up a huge snow bank. I didn't loose any power going up this other than brake power as my left brake is pretty well finished. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
dave k,
dude don'tlet your brakes wear to the metel or it'll cost ya.
shane |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Bin There, Done That!! |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
dave k,
me too, grease monkeys (mechenics ) seem to charge like it's brain surgery,
shane |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Did anyone look at the picture I put up on my website about that thing to get the tracks together? If you missed it, here is the link again.
http://argomag.50megs.com/images/track_puller.jpg
This is the thing that I use to get the ends together. It uses a 15/16 socket piece with a universal flexible joint and extension. YOU just ratchet it together and drive the pins through, put the collars on and thats it! Takes 15-20 minutes tops to go from start to finish. View my site for other pictures of the ARGO with the tracks on all taken by me! They are all on photo page 1 of my site. Note: The picture on the homepage of my site is my dad and I when I was about 1.5-2 years old. Those tracks you see on that ARGO are the same ones on the ARGO now! They are being used on the third ARGO dad has owned and still running perfectly and have been used every year, over everything, through everything! They last a long, long, long time! |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
hector fausett
If I can get up this snowbank with my old ARGO with standard tracks on, than you should be fine with your new Conquest with super tracks. Take a look at this picture. It was taken 2 weeks ago at the cottage and I went right up and over this bank with no problem once I had the ARGO centered on the bank so I didn't flip off one side.
http://argomag.50megs.com/images/tracks-_me.jpg |
JBC
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Beautiful! |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Has anyone ever had their tracks climb off the ARGO? I have only had it happen to me once and that was because the snow had pretty much melted and the pavement underneath was a bit sticky and when I went to turn around, I didn't realize that my back tire was also flat inside the tracks. The combination of the pavement and wheel made the track start to climb off. I couldn't get it to go back on by turning the other way so I ended up forcing it right off the left side wheeles. I just kept pulling, going forwards, pulling more, and it finally came off but what would you do if you were in the bush somewhere and this happened? |
stevec
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
I HAVE WALKED OUT OF MY ARGO SUPER TRACKS SEVERAL TIMES. CAUSES HAVE VARIED FROM RUNNING SIDEWAYS ON A HILL OF SNOW TO TURNS ON HARD SURFACES. KEEP THE AIR IN THE TIRES WAY UP WHEN THE TRACKS ARE ON TO PREVENT THIS. THE ONLY WAY TO GET THEM OFF (DID IT ONCE IN CHEST DEEP SNOW) IS TO PULL AND PULL AND PULL WITH YOUR ARMS TO FINISH WHAT HAD STARTED. |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Sounds like a good reason to keep a lug wrench in the back. I carry snowshoes and a spare wheel/tire, along with spare track segments, pins, etc. Guess it depends how far off in the boondocks you get.. |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Stevec, the only problem with having a lot of air in the tires with tracks on is the pressure it puts on the axles. The tracks are pretty tight on the tires already and when the pressure is up high, the front tires push outwards and put a lot of stress on the track pins as well. I have bent a couple a few years back before I knew what I was doing. Once those bend, they don't drive through the track pieces properly and make for a good fight when you use them again. I have found so far that 2.5 psi in all the tires will keep the tracks on, and keeps the friction down as much as possible. Also, with your supertracks, wouldn't they have more play in them because of the added width (what i mean is that when you go over something, when the tracks bend to conform, wouldn't they pull harder on the tires?) I also noticed that with the tracks on, on a super cold day the tracks are much harder to turn. You can have the ARGO throttle open all the way in Hi gear and only be going quarter throttle. Does anyone else find this. I know its the cold that does this because the engine is reved as hi as it usually goes and the belt isn't slipping because you can hear the engine working hard. Also, when it isn't so cold, I can get the ARGO moving much faster with the same amount of throttle and the engine sounds the same. I have actually had the ARGO running faster with the tracks on than with them off. Im not sure how this happened, but it was moving much faster. I don't know if something was not working properly or if the gas that was in at the time was better. I still havn't figured that out. Does anyone notice a difference in power and speed with higher octane? |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
David, the driven clutch on the trans is torque sensitive.. it opens up when the load is light, letting the belt climb higher on the front drive clutch, gearing up the vehichle. When the rear clutch senses higher load, ie uphill, cold tracks, it doesn't open up as willingly, so you stay lower geared.
Having a faster top speed with tracks in warm conditions.. the tracks act like taller tires, so affects overall gear ratio. |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Hey Roger, Thanks- thats one thing I didn't know about at all- so thats why its called CVT tranny then right?
Now I get it- much appreciated |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
david k,
the cvt stands for constantly varible transmission,
they work like a automatic clutch in a car,
but are mecaincal , ie, they use a spring.
a car uses a torque converter ( that's what it's called in australia! )with hydrolic oil in it, and vanes.
too complicated to explain go to a website called : HOW STUFF WORKS for info on lots of things.
they have a serch engine on lots of topics.
hope this helps shane. |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
thanks shane. I have looked at that site a few times in the past- They have info on just about everything that does everything. |
Argohunter (Argohunter)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
I had my Max II out in the snow today just running the Rawhide tires. I was breaking trail.I was not too happy with it's performance because it's only 14 hp. But then again,considering that it was mostly uphill and the snow was 22"-26" deep I can't complain too much. I got stuck a few times going uphill. It's light weight was nice because when I lost forward momentum, I just got out, put it in reverse and pushed a little from the front end until it moved a foot or so and then got back in and reversed and charged forward again.
Later on I got crazy and decided to climb up a snowbank left by the town plow. It did okay getting up on the hardpack but the down side was soft and it went down deep up to the top of the tub where the tubs meets the upper body shell. When I stepped out, I stepped into snow about 4' deep. Not a problem I thought because I've done worse with burying a snowmobile, jeeps and my John Deere. I can always dig out!
The problem was that when I buried the Max, it was on a steep angle to the left. I had less than a full tank of gas and after a few minutes, the engine died. The angle of the stuck Max caused the gas to flow to the left side of the tank leaving the gravity flow gas line on the right side of the tank high and dry literally.
I guess one of the next modifications to make is a dual gas line that taps from both sides of the tank.
John Deere came to the rescue and once the Max was semi level, the gas flowed again and I was back in business.
Lots of fun and isn't that what this is all about? |
Bud
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
We played in the snow yesterday as well in our Max II, and had a similar situation with the fuel line. Cutting a hard "donut" clockwise pushes the fuel to the left side, causing the engine to die.
We did have a ball, though. While we didn't need it, we played with the new winch to see what it could do. No problem dragging the Max wherever we needed it to go.
Bud |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Argohunter, I think your problem is the tires more so than HP (I wish RI would discontinue the 21" tire and only include a set in the track package) - sounds like you did pretty well though. Don't forget that the front end of a max II is pretty light and that one person can often pick it up and move it sideways or bounce move it a little, especially downhill. I realize that's not real easy to do in four feet of snow with the front of the machine buried.
A hose out of both sides does sound like a pretty good idea, but I think you would be apt to suck air out of the side that was exposed. Maybe you could have a little float valve that sealed it off when there was no gas to float the valve open. |
liflod (Liflod)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
How about adding some weight to the pickup tube inside the fuel tank. That way gravity would bring it to the fuel. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
liflod, current max do not have a pickup tube, but that would be the solution add a pickup tube and an little inline filter. |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Bud, the problem with spinning a donut is caused by the carburetor. Every Briggs I know of does that. I don't know yet if the new Kohler 23hp has that trouble.
Fred, I can't completely agree with you on discontinuing the 21" Rawhides. They are the best tire on the Max II for water speed. The actual performance difference in soft terrain is so minimal that it really comes down to preference. We've had my 14hp II with 22" tires and a 20hp with 21" tires at the same ride and the difference was almost non-existent, except in water. The Max IV with 26" tires on the other hand blows away everything else in all terrain and water speed.
A few years ago I put a 32mm snowmobile carb on my 14hp Briggs. That engine would run at every angle I ever put it on with that carb. It wouldn't miss a beat spinning wild donuts on gravel or ice. I never had the machine upside down but I had it at a full 90 degree angle sideways a few times in a mud hole. Once I was actually able to stand on the side of the roll bar while getting out of a mud hole. That was the good old days... |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
I tried to blame the carb on my '98 briggs 18hp for some fuel starvation, but ever since putting a real fuel pump on the argo, it runs solid. Up, down, sideways, 5 minutes of doughnuts, anything. Was playing on a log the other day, backed over it, got the back end so high, the front body seam was in the dirt. Still ran and idled, although after a bit it was getting rich.
The max tank sounds like it doesn't have a low spot for fuel to gather and stay. You could probably tap off both sides and bring it down to a lower container of some kind, like a big filter. 'Course that might be in the way of your feet.. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Well, Brandon, I guess we don't agree on this subject, but I think what you posted, kinda proves my point. There has to be a little extra performance from a higher HP engine and if a 14 HP with 22" tires does about the same as a 20HP with 21" tires, it must be the tires that allows the 14HP max to give the same performance as a 20HP max.
IMO, the 22" tire is also better in water. I have never had two of the same machine run side by side to test, but I have used a machine with 21" tires and used the same machine with 22" tires and it appeared to me that I had better water speed with the 22". I'm positive I can cross a river with current better with the 22".
Again, IMO, there is significant difference between the more aggressive 22" and the 21" in all conditions. Early on, I had one fellow buy a machine with the 21" tires, he didn't want to spend the extra money. He was complaining about spinning out and not getting where he wanted to go. I took his 21" tires and gave him a set of 22" tires and he told me it made all the difference in the world and paid me $250 for the switch (I told him it was on me, but he wouldn't hear of it). Now, I suppose it is possible that he learned how to drive it between tire switches, but I don't think so. Since then, I have not let a machine go without 22" tires on the Max IIs and 26" tires on the max IVs. I just include the 21" tire with the track kit (of course I explain what I have done and why) for those who also buy tracks. |
shane forsythe (Shanefor1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
wow brandon,
with that 32mm snow mobile carb keep the engine running at a full 90 degrees ,
you should be able to climb trees!
shane |
Argohunter (Argohunter)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Thanks for the feedback from all of you folks.
Bud, I was doing several doughnuts before I buried it in the snowbank. Remember I said I got a little crazy? I think all of the spinning went to my head and made me dizzy and I thought I could be king of the hill when I drove up that snowbank.
I did several doughnuts in both directions and I had no problems with fuel starvation at all.
Fred, I was looking for more performance(read speed)on the flats that I could have maybe increased if I had a little more horsepower.
When it came to going up hill, the horses were not needed because too much juice will spin the tires anyways.The 21" Rawhides worked pretty good for a while as long as I could keep them from spinning using very light throttle applications.
I think that the 22" tires with the larger lugs would have bit in a little better at slow speed and kept me moving. If anyone has a set of 22" tires to let me try out for free, I'll be happy to test this theory (LoL).
Liflod, Fred and Roger. Your ideas on the fuel tank have spawned a couple of ideas how I could make the modification. You know, it would not hurt to have a pickup tube with a fuel filter inside the tank anyways.
Brandon, I did not have any problem with the carb on the B&S 14hp when I was doing the doughnuts.
I'll be happy to accept all donated tires/wheels and tracks for testing. Don't send them all at once though. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
the line out of tank on both sides idea will work also but you need inline shut off's in each side to be able to select the pick up you want so as to prevent the air intake fred mentioned, liquids find there one level so you should use on line or the other but not both, just haveing it on stand by is good |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
That's why I said to use a container, like a filter, to be a resevoir. Have the tank lines tee into the top of it, mount the filter so the outlet is down. I was thinking the pump would empty the filter before air became a factor. The bigger the resevior the longer before you starve for gas. Would have been nice if they'd made the tank right, with a low spot in the middle. |
Attex Bob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Come on people!!!!!!! Just do like EVERY chain saw and ATTEX in the world (at least mine). Put a small rubber/plastic tube in the outlet of the tank (inside) with a filter or small weight on the end. On a hill? It will flop to the back. On a side hill? It will flop to the side.
Simple and easy. |
Big Wolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
I see those little Nitrous bottles for sale down at our local Ram Chargers Performance Shop around the corner. You could install one of those little bottles under the dash, and just push a little botton, and you should not have any further concerns with lacking performance and horse power any longer!
The thirty foot flame alone that would shoot out the tail pipe, should easily propel you clear of that pile of snow in a hurry! |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
or just stick the pipe on the front so it shoots forwards and melts the snow in your way!
Ok, not funny, just another one of my "Im tired and can't think of anything else to respond with wise cracks!" |
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Driving Tips and Techniques