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argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: | 
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I just recieved my april edition of american rifleman from the NRA, and they did a cool write up on the max four with the 25 hp motor and 26 in dico tires. It was a pretty detailed article. Its about time some aatv finally got some respect. check it out. |
Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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I saw it and thought it was a good write up also. |
Russell Lee (Bigkodiak)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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I just checked my new American Hunter to see if the article was duplicated there when I found a picture of two older Argo's. There was just brief mention of them in the article but it is still nice to see some free publicity.
Hopefully one day we will once again triumph over the All-mighty QUAD.
Russ |
Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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Russell, you will see more stories on the aatvs this year for sure. I have booked a few atv magazines to show up at all my rides this year and also trying to talk Doug Meyers from ATV TV to show up at a ride to do a story for his tv show. Hopefully more dealers will start promoting these more and maybe we will once again truimph over the quads. |
Joe Droit
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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It's truly a shame when a dealer for a product does more to promote the product and sport than the 2 major manufacturers. No wonder most people have never heard of a 6 wheeler.
Wake up RI and ODG!!!!!!!! The market is there, You just have to let people know what you offer and what it can do.
Good luck Midwest and thanks for helping promote the sport. |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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I agree with everyone about advertising MAX and ARGO. They could go so much furthur and concur the ATV market. Those 4x4 are called atv, but that means ALL TERRAIN. That has to include water, deep snow, and deep mud. Only Max and ARGO will do this. GO 6x6, 8x8! |
liflod (Liflod)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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My friend cut the article out of his magazine for me. The article was great, although it sounded like a dealer's advertisement! The thing that was really scarey about the article was the list price. $10,500.00!!!!! I'm sure there are many people looking very close at a quad that is $4000.00 less. I would never buy something with less than 6 wheels, but I know what a real ATV can do. Can someone explain to me why these things cost so much? You can't blame it on marketing and avertising. |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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liflod,
Capitolism at is worst. |
Eugene Kochnieff
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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Hello all,
They are so expensive for many reasons.
1) not many made.
2) very low tech production of a low tech product.
3) Very very little competition in this market.
4) The japs have not yet decided to enter the market!!
The last point is a double edged sword because as soon as the japs do decide to have a go max and argo will go the way of the dodo but you will get the low prices.
The japs have the engines, the tooling the high tech, and a distributor/service network that the low volume makers like max or argo can only dream of!!!
Now dont get all nationalistic on me i am not US bashing!!!
Remember the movie "on any sunday" how the commentator sneers " maybe yamaha should stick to building pianos!!"
Well just a few years on where are all the american
motorcycle manufacturers who were in that movie???
The point is max and argo make for a small us market and the rest of the world does not exist to them. The japs build to a world market.
Ps
I have reciently seen my first max it was a 200 buffalo truck and it really only confirmed my opinion that it is poor engineering applied to an outdated design. the argo is little better except for the centaur which is a good design but too expensive.
this is not to say that they max's and argo's don't do a great job.
Eugene. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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Hello Eugene, The Buffalo is the only max that has not been upgraded or redesigned. It has very limited production. You shouldn't denigrate the whole line by one machine that has pretty much been delegated to the back bench. I don't think RI has poor engineering (it has been getting the job done for lots of folks for over 30 years). Outdated design, maybe? It is basically the same as it first was developed and that Isn't necessarily bad.
Some of us think it is good to have a simple machine (that way people like me can understand them and work on them). I like to be able to get home when I go out and if one checks his machine over occasionally and fixes whatever needs it, they are very dependable. Maybe you want them like the new auto which seldom break, but in five to seven years are ready for the junk heap (everything goes at once and it costs so much to keep them running that it is smarter to get a new one). Actually, I guess that would be good for me, but it does my heart good to see a thirty year old machine that still does everything it did when it was new. And to know I most likely can get parts for that old machine if they are needed. |
Curious
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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Hey Eugene
What's the word on the quad builders entering the amphib market?
Are there any web sources for updates on this possibility? |
Eugene Kochnieff
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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Hi Fred,
We agree mostly thanks for the FYI on the buffalo but i dont think thicker axles etc as on the new max 4 really makes much of a difference to my argument as really the upgrades were sort of remedial to stop chassis cracking and axle bending especially with the more powerfull"25HP" engine. I agree with you on the simple is best approach but we should qualify this with the thought that simplicity is not always the most reliable and i dont agree that autos are nessessarily less reliable though there have been some lemons made. Yeah the 30 year old machine thing is an advantage unless you are forced to keep your machine up with current emmission standards which like it or not will eventually impact on all small engine owners.
Honda and robin/subaru are not building 4 stroke weed wackers for nothing you know.
Re quad builders entering the ampib market it is just comment and speculation on my part i have no inside info. |
Roger Smith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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"The point is max and argo make for a small us market and the rest of the world does not exist to them. The japs build to a world market."
Argo distributors in the following areas:
U.S.A.
East Coast
North Central
South Central
Mid West
North West
South West
Alaska & Hawaii
Canada
Africa
Asia
Japan
South East Asia
Australia
Caribbean
Europe
Central Europe
Russia
Middle East
New Zealand
South and Central America
Ecuador
Venezuela
Peru
Bolivia
Columbia
The Japanese havn't built aatv's as it's a limited market, not by supply but by demand.
"Yeah the 30 year old machine thing is an advantage unless you are forced to keep your machine up with current emmission standards which like it or not will eventually impact on all small engine owners."
When was any engine mandated to have new smog equipment added to a used vehicle.. |
Eugene Kochnieff
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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Hi Roger,
I know that both max and argo have dealerships in lots of places but frankly so what, they don't market and the dealers i have met here in Australia consider the "factory support" a joke. After all russian made Lada cars are available all over the world also big deal.
I agree the AATV market is limited by the demand!!
Mind you build a better product and voila!!
Ref my coments about motorcycles. I mean untill the japs brought european quality down in cost most bike manufacturers were building self propelled stationary engines, even the venerable Harley has started to leave this mould.
Maybe the japs won't do it , it might be the Koreans, same kid different haircut!!
Retrograde pollution controls will happen maybe by stealth where it costs more to register/insure non complying vehicles etc. Remmember there once were no seatbelt/airbags abs brakes etc on cars and when they came in there were protests about added un-needed costs. now leaded fuel is no longer available in many places and the LRP stuff is way more expensive so i guess it is everyones right to blow their pay on hanging on to the added cost of the right to own an old machine.
The focus of international pollution control in recient time is the adoption of stringent new guidlines to curb the vast amount of pollutants generated by small engines. This does not mean mandated engine mods, there is more than one way to skin a cat after all. |
Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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Regarding retrograde emission standards - It has been tried for automobilies. As I recall, the draft law was "intended" to get rolling junk off the road. Any car that failed an emissions test twice would have to be scrapped. However, the law made no allowance for the age of the car. The car had to meet current standards, not the standards in effect when it was built. Antique car enthusiasts fought long and hard to stop that one.
If enough people yelling "There ought to be a law" drown out the rest of us, a law will get passed. And AATV operators cannot muster as many voices as snowmobilers or personal water craft owners, and look at the pressure they are under. It could happen to us, to. |
Jim Deering Wild Dog Machinery
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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Eugene
“…the dealers i have met here in Australia consider the "factory support" a joke”
As an Argo dealer in Australia, I would like to take issue with you over your comment that Argo factory support is a joke. For your information, any time I have requested support from the factory, I have received it, overnight in most cases and the next working day the rest (their weekends and holidays).
Before you make scathing generalisations again, note that you do not make them on my behalf.
If you, personally, own an Argo - which I doubt - and have had trouble getting back up, try asking an Argo dealer who is prepared to make representations to the factory for you and you WILL get back up.
Regards
Jim Deering
Wild Dog Machinery
Victoria – Australia |
Eugene Kochnieff
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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Hi Jim,
I at no time claimed to represent you, i said "the dealers I have met" So i did not even imply i represent any dealers , however i have spoken to two dealers one each argo and max and they both were not overly impressed, and thats the sum total of of my comment.
You are correct i do not own an AATV of any kind nor would I based on what's available at the price, particularly given our exchange rate!!!
Anyhow what kind of support can you get overnight on a mechanical device from half way around the world???
Given the often quoted simplicity and reliability of these devices.
Anything that could be rectified by an email/phone call/fax, and not directly by the dealer surely is a very sorry testament on a very poor excuse for a mechanic trying to be a dealer!!!!
I endeavour to write on topics of engineering interest to me and not to raise anyones ire so before you roast me read my comments carefully.
Eugene. |
Jim Deering Wild Dog Machinery
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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Eugene
I think before you suggest I haven't read your comments that you should actually read mine.
You made the remark that (your whole one Argo dealer) thinks the factory support is a joke. My response is that when I have requested it, I have received it promptly.
The Argo distributor carries spares, so support for parts comes from this source, not the factory direct. The factory provides technical support on issues that often go beyond simple servicing issues incidentally.
Does that clarify what support is available overnight for you Eugene?
Regards
Jim Deering
Wild Dog Machinery
Victori - Australia |
Argohunter (Argohunter)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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Relating to the previous posts about factory support etc....I would like to share something with readers on this board. It does not relate exactly to the ATTV market but there can be something to learn from this.
I remember when Jeep was manufactured first by Willys, then by Kaiser and then by American Motors who bought out Kaiser in 1970. Yes in pre-Chrysler days the Jeep existed.
Back then if you wanted to buy a new or used Jeep from Willys or Kaiser you went to a dealer of course but who was that dealer? A Willys auto dealer that also sold the Jeep line, Farm equipment dealers or supply stores, gas stations that did truck repair or had equipment sales, a well heeled automobile/truck dealer that developed a market for the Jeep in their particular area etc. My point is that under Willys and Kaiser marketing back then, almost anyone in business could get a Jeep dealership. My first new Jeep was purchased from a truck and equipment sales. When I needed parts, I went there until I found a little gas station 15 miles away from where I lived that had no showroom but they were a Jeep dealer. The parts were cheaper and I had to drive less miles to get there.
When American Motors bought the Jeep from Kaiser, for about a year they continued to let the Ma and Pa dealers sell the Jeep Line. That lasted only about a year until they changed their marketing plan and prescribed that the existing dealers had to provide "x" amount of showroom space devoted to the Jeep line.
Little by little the Ma and Pa Jeep dealers were phased out and the only one who could sell the Jeep products were regular automobile dealerships.
Where did American Motors take this? Well look and see. The Jeep became more popular than it had ever been and sales went up and up.
Soon only American Motors dealerships could sell the Jeep Line.
Well then came Chrysler Corp and the rest is history as they say.
Jeeps filled the little niche in the early days that hunters, exploration companies, farmers and etc. had created for a wonderful machine.
I know this is an AATV board and not about Jeeps but can anyone see where I am going with this?
It took 30 years for the Jeep to get really going in popularity and sales. A big company took over and well what can you say?
Yes I am a jeeper who has had more Jeeps than AATV's. A lot can be said for Fred's remarks about fixing the Max that still runs around and it is 30 years old.
I learned a lot fixing and rebuilding the early Jeeps and they were easy to do. Well constructed and simple.
Try to fix a new one by yourself when you are not a mechanic and do not have the specialized tools and computer diagnostics.
I like to fix my old 6x6 and 8x8 when they need something.
If either Max or Argo are ever bought out by lets say a big company, hold on to your chains because changes will be a coming.
Merry Christmas to all and thanks Richard for this site. |
Daniel Gagnon
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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I have an old Argo 6x6 Tec. Can I put my tracks on regular Rawhide 21x11x8. Presently I have 6 used Runamuck 20x10x8 and 6 Rawhide in good shape. If I cannot , why? Merci excuse my English, I am a French Canadian from Quebec. Thanks Daniel |
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