| Author |
Message |
    
BILLY
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: | 
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The general public is just plain ignorant to the 6x6 and 8x8 market all together. I used the word ignorant, because it is a mature way to say that they just don't know any better.
Two of my bestfriends are in the ATV industry:
#1. Built and owns his own motorcross and quad race track. He's been riding motorcross almost his whole life. Since he was 8 years old.
#2. Sells motorcross and quads by the hundreds for the past 4 years.
They are both huge hunters and active in off road vehicles for over 20 - 25 years.
They [ me included ] were unaware of how impressive the AMPHIBIOUS ALL TERRAIN VEHICLES really are. Even our fathers and uncles didn't know much about them since the early 1970's. It is truely funny how much myth and mistake is made by people about them.
THE POINT IS: these amphibious vehicles are 3x the vehicle for LESS then 2x the price of the avarage quad.
If you really give it some thought, there are actually many small reasons why AATVs are like an underground society. There really isn't any one big reason why the AATV market hasn't exploded yet.
OR, MAYBE IT'S ABOUT TO!
BILLY |
Ray Carriere
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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The argo and max company have to start to
advertize on tv.No one i really know, knows
anything about agros.
They also have to modernize their systems as
the jap's have done leaving the rest in the dust.
Also price is a big factor.Most 4*4 are much less
in price and some will go just about anywhere
for that price.
I have an older agro and found that they require
alot of time to keep them running.
I also have a Jap three wheeler and it requires
next to nothing to keep it going.
I have one argo dealer around where i live and
He charges an arm and leg for every piece required.
I spend $50.00 for a speedo cable.Now that's alot
of money for a $3.00 dollar part.
I spend $75.00 for one side of the braking system
shoes.I paid that to change all the brakes on
my truck.
Now how can you get people interested when dealers
are charging prices like that.
I have not changed very many parts on my jap trike
and it is a 1986.
It also has never left me walking as my agro has. |
Ray Carriere
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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The argo and max company have to start to
advertize on tv.No one i really know, knows
anything about agros.
They also have to modernize their systems as
the jap's have done leaving the rest in the dust.
Also price is a big factor.Most 4*4 are much less
in price and some will go just about anywhere
for that price.
I have an older agro and found that they require
alot of time to keep them running.
I also have a Jap three wheeler and it requires
next to nothing to keep it going.
I have one argo dealer around where i live and
He charges an arm and leg for every piece required.
I spend $50.00 for a speedo cable.Now that's alot
of money for a $3.00 dollar part.
I spend $75.00 for one side of the braking system
shoes.I paid that to change all the brakes on
my truck.
Now how can you get people interested when dealers
are charging prices like that.
I have not changed very many parts on my jap trike
and it is a 1986.
It also has never left me walking as my agro has. |
Don Kinyon (Oldnatva)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Maybe geography has something to do with it, too, but I think you're right- The two manufacturers that weathered the thin years need to spend a little of thier money on publicity. A lot of people in the 70s and early 80s new about AATVs (ATVs in thier time), but there were a lot more manufacturers producing a lot more variety, and there were RACES! Racing gave the manufacturers a forum to advertise for free and drew crowds of people that wanted to see what racing those funny-looking buggies looked like. I realize racing wouldn't be the same now that all but two of the manufacturers are gone and two-strokes are quickly becoming things of the past, but it may not be too late for some "exibition" type races to drum up interest in the original style All Terrain Vehicles.
I'll step off my soap box now.
Don |
roadwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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ray, thats why your argro lets you walk, cause you won't fix it. and why does teddy's 3 wheelers' require less maintenance than a 6?, cause it won't do the same things as a 6! |
argogeru
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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roadwolf,
so true. no maintence, no reliability. |
Another Rider (Another_rider)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Well. I find just the opposite to be true. I've an '83 Honda 110 ATC, and an '85 Argo I/C.
Granted the routine maint on the the Honda is minimal, because the machine is not designed for maint, the parts have a tendency to fail catastrophically when they go. With the Argo, some common sense low cost routine maint, saves from much part replacement. So comparing parts prices is more akin to the old Apples and Oranges bit.
Individual bearings on the Honda are as much as the bearings on the Argo, except the Honda ones are sealed, and the Argo ones are greasable so they can be maintained. The ATC brakes cost more than the Argo brakes, both dealer purchased.
I could go on, but I'll wrap up here. I enjoy both machines!!! I just use them in quite different scenarios. I tend to be more careful with where I go/what I do on the Honda, and just ride with a "Damn the torpedos!" attitiude on the Argo |
bigkodiak
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Geru
I agree that no maintenance equals poor reliability, however you have to agree that under normal circumstances you would not have replaced your governor spring. Or would I have even thought that my tailpipe would have fallen off just tooling around the campground.
The point is that you will always have an item that may break no matter what the machine and how much preventative maintenance you perform. If you have an older machine the chances are even greater of breaking down. Thankfully we have newer machines that have been re-engineered to fix most of the problems older machines have/had.
Russ |
bigredwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Hey Guys,
Now here is a subject that needs some more current discussion to take place. I will get this one rolling and who ever wants to jump in, please do so.
I have some interesting information and facts to share regarding this subject.
I live in Michigan, specifically the Metro Detroit Area suburbs. In our entire state, I beleive there are only a total of four Max dealers, and of those four, one has closed up his dealer ship. I am not sure how many Argo dealers there are in my state, however, I only know of one which is also the distributor for our entire state. The nearest dealer of any AATV is probably at least one an a half hours or more away from my location.
In my state alone, we generally can put afield between 750,000 to 1,000,000 hunters, for the opening day of gun deer season. I think the number of bow hunters for opening day is approximately 350,000 to 400,000 hunters for the opening day of bow deer season. A large percentage of these people residein and come from a couple of hand fulls of counties around me. On opening day of the gun season, it is litterally a traffic jam heading up into northern Michigan because of all the hunters. The same thing some times happens on the highways leading west in southern Michigan also. I have in my local four or five county area, the largest Cabella's retail store in the entire country, we also have a huge Bass Pro Shop, and a multitude of Gander Mountain, and a multitude of various other outdoors sporting goods retail stores.
Over the course of many years, not one time have I ever saw even one 6x6 or 8x8 AATV being towed on a trailer, or in the back of a pick up truck in my state. I know there are a few here and there, however, never have I ever saw one being transported, or being operated out in the field. I travel within my state quite often, going north for vacation, and or travelling west out of the Dertroit area to go out to my property, or my dad's farm. Does this seem quite odd to any one else reading this posting?
The only unit that I ever see being towed or used, is my own unit that I bought just recently. I am telling you, when I do haul my unit around, I do see many people speeding up to check out my unit on the trailer, and on occassion, they darn near loose control of their vehicle while driving and trying to check it out. Many people also do approach me to talk, when I am pulled into the gas stations to get fuel quite often.
Maybe I am misinterpreting some thing here or imagining things, however, I have the impression that there is a huge market here, right around me, that has not even begun to be tapped. I mean there is absolutely zero AATV advertising goind on around here at all. The only advertising that I have ever saw, was a few times when our local Argo distributor ran some adds in the Michigan out of doors magazine.
That has been a couple of years ago.
You would think that by now, the AATV's would be showing up more often here and there. I am very puzzled by this. I would really like to give a dealer ship a try here at some point in time, however, I am just not willing to settle for, and go along with the AATV manufacturers requirement of being forced to buy there products up front, and then try to get my cash back out of them when ever I am able to sell the units. I think the AATV manufacturers must be having a hard time, getting any businesses to go along with their dealership and marketing strategy also. |
dt5428
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Hey bigredwolf I also live in the Detroit area and my father and I own an Argo 8x8 Conquest and you are right you never see very many on trailers and I think the reason is everyone owns atvs and the reason for that is most of the trails in lower Michigan are to narrow to drive an aatv down althought you could go to the U.P and drive any trail you would like.From what I have seen most people would rather own a atv for one thing not to many people like just ride as a passenger all the time and it is cheaper to buy two atvs rather than two aatvs and then you get into the cost of a trailer big enough to haul more than one aatv.The only reason we bought one was the price was right and we were trying to look at 40 acres of land that the only way to get to it was by canoe or aatv.We were going to sell it but we used it to pull out the dock and boat hoist this year and I have yet to find a easer way of doing this.Also we are going elk and mule deer hunting in Colorado next fall and we will take both atv and aatv with us.We also think it will be great for ice fishing when the lake freezes and we get to try it out I will let you know how it works.
Bye the way I live in the Livonia Westland area how about you.
Later,Dan |
Bud
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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You are right on in your assessment that this is an untapped market. I have had my Max II for 1 month, and get the exact same reactions from passersby when I trailer it up to go somewhere.
My hunting buddies are quite interested in what it can do compared to their ATVs. I have a friend who is a paraplegic that is now interested in purchasing one; he has an ATV with a hand shifter, and had never heard of an AATV until he heard about mine.
The Max and Argo manufacturers could make a killing with the right marketing and advertising plan. I get the impression that they are comfortable with their current distribution method, production numbers and overall profitability. That is a shame, because parking a Max or Argo in front of a Cabela's or Bass Pro Shop would result in a significant increase in sales. I wonder if they would consider selling a franchise versus requiring dealers to front the entire inventory? If I were less busy with my "real" job, I'd seriously consider being a dealer.
Bud |
David Keeso (Argomag)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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If I were ODG, (can't speak for MAX) I would not necessarily want a massive market- they are doing pretty good now, and they have a fairly wide line of products (ARGO, Centaur and the gearing division). Sometimes, you just don't want to mess with a good thing. Yes, I agree that their could be a huge market for these machines, but if people want them they will look and find them. Advertising would help a bit, or a lot, but only if its done on more than just the hunting channels and others alike. NOt everyone looking for these are hunters or fishermen or similar. Advertising on local networks may cost a lot, but more people will see it and may create a better interest. However, as I said above, if I were ODG, I don't think I would want that much of a market- I don't have the slightest clue as to how to run a business, or how ODG is really doing, but if they weren't making any money, they wouldn't be here, but at the same time, when you read the brochures and the site, they don't rave about their sales either. That may be a completely different issue, but I don't think that you want an over-population of 6x6, 8x8 vehicles- you'de have way to many around, not being sold, bought etc. I think that would create something like what happened in the 70's when all those other companies went under. However, look at how popular those old 6x6s are now. Not wanted by the general public per say, but by users of the vehicles now, they want to restore them and get them up again. Yes, its too bad that that era didn't last long, but their was obviously a reason, and ODG and RI survived (how long has RI been around and how long has ODG been around just out of curiosity? Was RI around in the 70's when all the other machines were around? --I am not stating that they are less experianced at all- it was just my personal curiosity)
It all comes back down to what you need and the application it will be used in. As everyone keeps saying, test all candidates, and select the one that suits you best- end of story- and I in no way an saying that what I am saying is right, its just the way my stupid 19 year old mind says in relation to what little amount of business related things I have learned. Feel free to comment, criticize, or whatever else, but thats just the way i see it. |
Jon Hoath
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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redwolf,
I am a dealer in coldwater, two hours west on us-12 from detroit, and my distributor advertises every month in woods and water magazine and michigan auto and rv. my number is in their, so if you want to travel, we do alot of winter riding 45 minutes west of me on the weekends.
Bud, as a dealer, most people I talk to have heard or seen one of these machines, but the price keeps alot of people from even coming out and taking a test drive. 15 out of 20 people would buy one if they would drive one in the terrain they were made for.. bottom line quads are cheaper and people look for the cheapest way to get through the woods. the price is alot more attractive when you look at the price of two big model quads, 500cc and above. I was talking to a guy at a show I did and he had two polaris sportman 700 quads and a new flatbed trailer, cost,18,500.00. If he would have seen an argo conquest before he bought his quads, he wouldn't have bought the quads, he was quite desturbed over this, after I explained to him all the things it could do his quad couldn't. |
bigredwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Oh, I forgot to mention a couple of interesting pieces of infromation and statistics, when I typed the previous note.
The Caballa's that I mentioned in my area is only a couple of years old. Before it opened, they forcasted and anticipated that there would be approximately 20,000,000 to 30,000,000 visitors going through the place in the first year alone. I have been there many times, and their estimates are probably not far off. They sell boats, 4 wheel atv's, and about every thing else imaginable for the outdoor's enthusiate.
Also in my general multi county area, we have many many major exibition centers, that host outdoor shows, gun and knife shows, RV shows, boat shows, and so on, year round. These shows draw absolutely tons of people. Again, not one time have I ever saw an AATV dealer, or booth, or a vehicle set up at the shows on display. And when I do go visit some of our local outdoor's retail stores, I have not once saw any AATV brochures and fliers posted on their general public items of interest display boards either.
Again, I am just absolutely puzzled about this situation in my general area. I have been in contact with R.I. recently, and I have shared some of this information with them, not all, but some. And I have told them that I would definately be interested in a new dealership encompassing approximately four or five counties in my general area, which is a huge marketing area to work on. I am positive that I could get some thing going easily, and if nothing else, I would be very easy to make many people much more aware of the AATV industry, by just sending out and placing brochures, fliers, and video tapes alone at some of these locations and event shows. I have not heard any thing back from R.I. about it, since I sent them a letter to discuss it.
I tell you if there is any one interested in doing a partner ship type arrangement, and or has some influence to get one of these AATV manufacturers to open their eyes to this situation going on around my area, it would probably help create a major impact to this industry.
Thanks for listening!
"bigredwolf" |
Rick
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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David
You seem pretty smart for a 19 year old, I may
will differ with some of your ideas but I value
your opinion. You kind of remind me of my
son.
One thing to consider if the AATV market ran
away big time, how long would it be untill the
big boys, like Artic Cat, Seadoo, or even
Honda spent big money in development and
advertising, I bet the small AATV companies of
today would be gone. No disrespect but they
could not hold a candle to Honda
Just me two cents worth
Rick Cartright |
bigredwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Hey Dan and John,
I live in the down river area, Taylor, just below Dearborn. Hey Dan, my property is just south of the Michigan International Speedway, down around the Devil's lake area, and my families home stead and farm is in Hillsdale County, just north of the Jonesville area. Not very far from your dealership, maybe 30 minutes farther west on US-12.
That is interesting, what you mentioned about the adverisement in the Woods and Water magazine. I will have to pick one up the nest time I am at my local Gander Mountain. I will definately get in touch with you some time, maybe I will just stop by your shop or some thing, when I am out that way. |
dt5428
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Hey bigredwolf I work at metro he is my email address dt5428@wideopenwest.com |
barryhh3f
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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AATV costing more than ATVs is a misconception. This is a situation I think a lot of 6X6 dealers don’t try to counter. Even a MAX 2 has seating for 2 people. At a cost of $6000 that’s $3000 dollars a seat. The cheapest full sized Honda ATV I could find on a show room floor was $5000. And when it was pointed out to me, I countered by saying we had to buy 2, and that would raise the price to $10,000. Two, sure one for me, and one for my wife. Only Polaris builds an ATV designed for two people and it has a MSRP of $8000.
How many times have you seen an ATV squatting with loaded racks on both ends, two people on it and towing a trailer? Up here in Alaska you see it a lot. Compared to those loads, 4 adults in a Bigfoot is not over loading the vehicle, its riding in the lap of luxury. And I can guarantee you that, that squatting 4X4 is traveling no faster than any 6X6 with a similar load.
The cost of a trailer shouldn’t be much of a factor either. I use a double wide snow mobile trailer for my Max and BF. With my trucks canopy I couldn’t get a full sized ATV in the bed anyway so I have to have a trailer for either kind of vehicle.
One of the biggest problems I see to increasing the numbers of AATVs in the woods is dealerships and marketing. In Alaska we have one ARGO dealer, and three Max Dealers. Of the Max dealers one is 4X4/snow machine/Max dealer out in the bush (160 miles out). Another is almost 400 miles away and he is a hobbies (my opinion) and the third is a RV (read travel trailers and campers) dealer who is trying out the market. In the Pacific Northwest the situation is not a lot better.
In the Washington county I grew up in, the population is larger than the entire state of Alaska and it is generally considered rural. Yet there is only one ARGO dealer in Washington, and it’s not in that county. The same is true of Oregon, Idaho and Montana. Yet how many 4X4 ATV dealerships are there? Basically every motor cycle shop and outboard motor dealer also sells 4X4s. I have noticed that RI is trying to offset this dealership inequality with direct sales from the factory. This may sound ok, but anyone who has sold cars will tell you “people are impulse buyers”. If they can’t kick the tire, and buy it then and there, they will go down the road and buy from some one with stock on the lot.
Product exposure is another problem. If an industry doesn’t advertise they will not grow and may die from lack of business. Advertising is expensive but it is a requirement to grow a business. I have never seen a 6X6 at an outdoor/sportsman show, but I have seen 4X4s that those shows. I have even seen those in a Bank lobby as advertisement for recreational loans. As a computer dealer my distributor got money from the manufacture to pass on to me for advertising, plus an addition fund to offset the cost of a booth at a trade show. Does any AATV manufacture do that? I bet they don’t. |
bigredwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Well it all seems to come down a few key factors, Marketing, Advertising, and Sales methods and business plans, and over all consumer awareness of what it available out there, including what equipment is capable of doing what functions for you. Of course economics come factor into the whole thing also. |
Howard Hoover
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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I don't think either company wants to grow that big or they would have done it already by advertising more in magazines on TV radio etc.
I think they are pretty much right where they want to be. If they sold that many more machines they would have to start mass producing which would mean new buildings more workers more tools equipment etc. etc. I talked to Recreatives and they told me that they do not manufacture anything they just assemble the parts that other companies make for them in that case they may be able to step up production some what by adding a second or third shift without having to increase the size of their building etc. etc. but if they made that many more machines they would still have to have enough room to store the additional parts on hand to be ready for assembly. There are other people that would like to start manufacturing their own AATV's and Max and Argo aren't the only one's out there now! If they increased production now and a few other companies popped up it might not put them out of business but it would probably hurt them if they stay the way they are they probably have a better chance of staying in business and making a decent profit without laying workers off etc. etc.
This is just my opinion but one thing that I think is holding the AATV's back is the technology in the transmissions it's not about speed for me but it is for a lot of people and a lot of people don't realize that you don't need to drive them that fast to get the job done or to have fun with the machine. If you look at the transmission technology in the newer cars and trucks of today there is a big difference between them and the cars from the 60's and 70's. a lot of the cars produced today have less Power but are just as fast as the cars of yesteryear because of transmission technology. I have read that there is no loss of power through the T-20 but there must be something holding them back. for a second just forget about the different capability's of an ATV and an AATV and think about the speed differences between a 600 to 700 cc machine between the two different types of machines. Remember I'm talking about speed not pulling power or torque because most of the people I have talked to that have atv's just say that aatv's are too slow. I think they are just about fast enough myself but if that is one of the things that keeps people from buying one why not try to improve in that area. Safety being the biggest reason but I wonder how many Atv accidents there are yearly compared to aatv accidents? |
barryhh3f
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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A manufacturing fact of life is that almost all major devices are built by assemblers. RI assembling parts from sub contractors is not uncommon. It's efficient, they concentrate on what they can do the best. If they were to up their output to require a 3rd shift, they would in fact get better prices from their subs. That's called economy of scale. And you don't sit on parts inventory you get it when you need it, that's called just in time inventory. You don't think Boeing actually builds airplanes do you? They design them and then subcontract out parts. They may assemble them in Washington but the parts come from all over the world as they need them.
What surprises me is that the two major 6X6 manufactures haven't put together a team to help their dealerships. By help I mean assisting with advertising. Unless you are selling apples on a street corner, you have to keep your product in the minds of your prospective customers. Help them with getting local banks to floor inventory, or a national bank to do the same. Teach them how to get sales financing arrangement with local banks. Car dealerships don't buy their inventory, it's floored. And when the buyer finances it, the finacal institution gives them a fee for getting the loan through them. That's why car dealers will sell a car at cost. They make more on the rebate from the bank than profit from the sale itself. Help the dealers with credit cards purchases. CC rates are based on volume VS ticket size. For a small shop with one or two large sales a month it's a prohibitive cost. One solution would be a national card program for the dealers. Kaypro Computers did this in the early 80s. If the buyer had credit the sale was financed thru a national account. Because Kaypro was doing 100s of sale a day the servicing rate was very low. Nothing came off the dealers end.
I would like to say that I tried to buy an ARGO competitively by buying out of state. What I found was that the west coast distributer takes care of his dealerships. He lisented to my configuration, gave me a competivite price against a similar MAX. And then told me I could pick it up in Anchorage 3 miles from my house at that price. The local dealer would have the quote in hand.
Having been a software distributer I thought this was an excellent example of dealership support. I never bid against any of my dealers, and if a dealer told me he was biding on the same contract, I would back out and offer him a larger discount. I did have to close shop and take a real job, but I had dealers coming to me three years latter asking to place orders because I had supported and treated so well.. |
Eugene kochnieff
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Hi All,
I agree with Rick, if and when the market gets to a certain size there will be a serious ToyoYamaHond entry into the market and soon RI and ODG will be on the ropes. Any of the Japanese motor cycle manufacturers can crush the market with their sales/service networks and massive marketing machines, not to mention a comitment to advanced technology.
I think Both RI and ODG both realise this and are keeping their heads down so to speak. |
bigredwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Now that you guys mentioned it, it does seem to make some sense. It it very possible that both ODG and R.I., with their marketing and business plans, may be trying to stay below the radar screen of the really big ATV Manufacturing companies. I also think that you are very accurate in your statements, that the big mega ATV companies could just walk right in and virtually over night decimate the two companies, and then proceed to dominate the market, literally over night. Although I am not sure that is indeed the case, it does have some merit.
I am not sure if the 4 wheel atv market and the snow mobile markets are at the point of saturation yet, however, it does appear to look like it is to some extent. I also see that they have now come out with 6 wheel derivitive versions of the ATV's now, which is very interesting also. It may only be a matter of time now, before the big boys do finally decide to jump into the AATV market. Those big companies are not stupid by any means. What they do some times is very methodical and well thought out marketing strategies. When they have some thing that is a huge hit, they ride it out, and produce off shoot dirivitives of them, until such time that the market is completely saturated, and there is no more profits left in it, due to intense competition, the they move on to a new product venture. It will be interesting to see where the ATV and AATV industries and markets go in the near future.
The comments about the need to get much better financing sponsorship in place, is another very good point. That alone would probably help to sell more of the AATV units even better.
In closing, I still remain very puzzled as to why my particular area is not very well represented and covered by the AATV Manufacturers. I placed another call with R.I. again today to discuss the matter further, however, I have not heard back from them yet. If I am able to work out some kind of decent arrangement with them, then I plan to take on my four or five county area here in South Eastern Michigan, as a new Max dealer.
Thanks
"bigredwolf" |
Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Hey Bigredwolf,
I am on here all the time and do post some. I have been reading some of your posts and would like to talk to you about something. Please email me and we can talk about it. I think you would like what I have to say. hustler1990@netzero.net |
bigredwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Hello Hustler,
As soon as I saw and read your message posting, I went ahead and E-Mailed you my personal contact information. Give me a call when you have a chance, let's talk!
Thanks
"bigredwolf" |
Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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I haven't recieved it yet. Can you do it again. I will give you both my emails just in case something happened.
hustler1990@netzero.net
hustler1990@netscape.net
I will contact you ASAP after recieving your info. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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BIG RED, WHY NOT GO DOWN TO THE PLACE YOU DISCRIBED WITH YOUR AATV IN TOE, PARK IT SOME PLACE NICE AND TAKE A POLE, JUST KEEP TRACK OF HOW MANY FOLKES STOP TO TALK, YOU COULD PROBLY TAKE PHONE NUMBERS OR GIVE YOURS, EVEN IF YOUR NOT A DEALER I THINK YOU COULD MOVE A FEW BY REFERLE, JUST TOO SEE IF YOUR STRATAGY WORKS, A TEST RUN SO TO SPEEK. |
bigredwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Hello Again Everyone,
Well, as of this morning, I have officially signed on with R.I., to become one of their dealers for the Max AATV product line. I want to keep this message posting brief, because I know that Route6x6 does not want dealers advertising on this message forum.
My new dealership will encompass a huge exclusive area of the Southeastern Michigan Area. And yes, the new Cabella's in Southeastern Michigan, is within my marketing and sales area, along with many many other retail outdoor's businesses, and exibition centers. Our new Max dealership is called "Metro Detroit AATV". We are a Native American owned and operated, minority run business. I would like to think and tell people that we could possibly be the first and only, Native American owned and operated AATV dealership in the entire country.
For the moment any way, those that are interested, can locate and get in contact with us by going through the R.I. web site, and doing a dealer location search for the state of Michigan. R.I. said that they will have our dealer contact information down loaded on their web site shortly.
I will have a new web site up and running hopefully with in a couple of weeks. We are a small family run business, that will have much to offer to our customers. My two sons will be helping me to get the business going and also run the dealership. I will finally have the opportunity to reap some of the investment that I have in these two fine young men. My oldest son is a computer whiz kid/hacker, and is currently attending the Lawrence Technological University in the their Computer Science Program. He will be putting together and managing our new web site. My youngest son is a marketing and business man and real wheeler dealer. And he will be very active in running the day to day business.
Once I have all the details set in place, and the new web site is up and running, I hope to get some sort of announcenment posted here on Route6x6 very soon. We are very excited with this new venture and opportunity, and we are already working to get this dealership kicked off and rolling very quickly. Other than that, the only other things that I can say at this point in time is, watch for our advertisements, we do plan to take on the entire Southeastern Michigan and Metro Detroit Area's by storm.
Thanks for Listening
Gary L. Hargis
aka "bigredwolf" |
Jim Stiver (Viper56)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Gary,
Congratulations and good luck with your new venture!! We welcome you into the Max family.
Jim |
dt5428
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Hey bigred where is you store front going to be located I am interested in stopping by once you are up and running.Like I said email me when you get a chance I am in your area here is my email address again.
Thanks,Dan
dt5428@wideopenwest.com |
ROUTE6x6
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Gary:
Good luck and much success with your new dealership, we
need more people with your enthusiasm. Let us all know
how your ideas on promotion of your product works out.
When you get your site on the web, let me know and we
will get you linked up.
You are always welcome to call me on phone and talk.
Richard Clark
ROUTE6x6
RICHARD'S RELICS
812-944-1643 12 noon-6PM EST Weekdays |
bigredwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Thanks Richard, Jim and Everyone,
We are looking forward to getting it rolling very soon. It will be a very good and interesting change of pace for me also. If nothing else, we will at least make many people, much more aware of AATV's in general. It will also be good to get these young kids engaged in running their own business. I may even learn a thing or two from them also.
It is long passed due, to have some better dealer coverage in our area. I really do not expect to make a living from doing this. I run a completely unrelated business now, which provides me with a good living. Our internet web site will be a good informational tool for people to see the products that we will have to offer, and how to locate us. We primarily want to concentrate our efforts on our specific area, which is more than a enough area to cover.
I probably will be talking with you at some point in time Richard, and others. I have already been referring people to you directly for parts, and manuals, and technical assistance. In fact the last guy that I referred to you, I think may have bought your last 18 HP Briggs and Stratton engine, that you had in stock.
I will provide you with a update when we are up and running.
Thanks Again
G.L. Hargis
aka "bigredwolf"
Metro Detroit AATV
New Home of the Max Amphibian Products |
John Martin
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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The competition is growing. Good luck to all and have a good time. |
Laurier
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Good luck with your new AATV dealership. It has to be a real good feeling to enter in an AATV business. I have always said one would be lucky if they can make a living out of something they enjoy. If ever, I am driving through your area I will stop by. Laurier Ontario Canada. |
Eddie Beddingfield
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Bigredwolf, The question I am dying to know is , Did you have to give them the start up cash, for three models or did they just give them to you? I am only asking because you said you wouldnt fork over your cash to be a dealer and sell their machines that you have already invested your money in . |
bigredwolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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The only way I know how to answer your question is to say, we reached a workable agreement that both sides can live with!
In today's business climate, "You will not get what you deserve, You will only get what you can negotiate". |
Dave Johnston
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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I addressed this very subject with ARGO. My suggestions included 1) Financing such as GMAC.
2) Stop hosing the new dealers. For them to have machines to SHOW, they have to buy them. That makes just getting a sales place open you have to come up with at least $10000 or so for the first machine. 3) Insurance. Some companies like PROGRESSIVE will not insure the 8-wheelers. Argo could offer insurance. 4) Get with the Forest Service and BLM so when they make a blanket ban on snowmobiles or ATVs, we do not get included. (I can still drive my Argo Conquest at Pyramid Lake, whereas ALL the other ATVs were banned.) IF we can go places they do not, there will be more interest in our machines. Then again...perhaps these companies just arn't interested in expanding their business. If any of them are mom and pop operations, perhaps someone should buy them out. |
barryhh3f
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Has any one else noticed the huge potential market that has opened up around Jelly Stone National Park.
Winter visitors using snow machines are being banned from the Park. Why? They are noisy, read 2 stoke engines. They pollute real bad, same cause. Are Snow Goes required due to deep snow or cross country use? No they are required to stay on the roads and they are hard packed.
Since most of the visitors are renting the snow machines they use. Some local 6X6 dealers aught to be right out there to get the rental companies to buy a bunch of quite, clean and multi seat tracked 6X6s. As well as making sure that the Park Circus permits them as an ecologically correct substitute for the snow machines.
This would not only be good for the local dealers but great National PR. |
Attex Bob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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I could be wrong but I don't think the NPS want ANY internal combustion engines in the park. They even want to regulate the amount of people that goes through the park in a year. I think the snow machine deal is just the tip of the iceberg. They really want to ban ALL I.C.E.
Thats my take on these bureaucrats. |
Dave Johnston
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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I see a general trend for the BLM, US Forest Service, any court making a decision, to side with the tree huggers.... If the US Forest Service makes a decision to divide some land between the hikers and show shoe gang on one side and the ATVs/snowmobiles on the other...the very next year the hikers and snow shoe gang are in again trying to reduce ATV/snowmobile access even move... They are as sneaky as the gun control crowd...no matter what they get, they are back the next year for more. I often look up the rulings and if a six or eight wheel machine is NOT noted, I consider that an exemption for me and I go where I want. After all, I OBEY THE LAW and if the law is not clear, is that MY fault? |
Damen T.Hill (Argoss)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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exactly |
Big Wolf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Well its time to beat this topic to death some more! I have a copy of a local Auto and RV Trader magazine for Michigan here in front of me, and I have been going through and looking at the advertising that is currently going on for ATV's and snow mobiles and so on.
It is unbeleivable to read the advertisement ads for all the local state wide dealers. It looks like the latest big advertising push and promo for quad ATV's and snow mobiles is the "Buddy Pack" purchase. You can now buy not just one but two quad ATV or snow mobiles of any type or brand, including trailer, helmets, jackets, goggles, etc, and finance the whole package for $39 to $99 per month, with low interest rate financing, and on the spot loan approvals.
I also saw a full one page color AD for our local Argo distributor and dealers in Michigan here. The Argo ad looks great, but it is almost completely over taken by all the rest of the big promo Ads.
I have to wonder where the ATV market is headed in the next 5 to 10 years. Will they just find a way to toss a couple of outrigger floatation potoons, and bolt on plastic wheel paddles on a quad ATV and call it an ampibious ATV. I also do see that there are now some decent track kits to replace all the wheels on a quad ATV for deep snow and mud conditions. Not sure how they work in real life, but it is interesting to look at. The idea to put floatation out riggers on a quad really would not be hard top do either. |
JHOG (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 204.58.127.10
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 02:28 pm: |
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I've been reading these old posts and was just wondering if bigredwolf is still a dealer and if not, why not. |
Speed (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 68.84.254.78
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 12:48 pm: |
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I think the biggest problem with getting the general public interested in AATV's is the language used. For instance, when looking at a quad, you look for a 250, 300, 400, 500, 650, etc. But, when looking for an AATV I see 14 hp, 16 hp, 18 hp, etc. I think many in the general public think they are getting 25 hp in a 250 utility quad (which they are not, of course) but then see an 18 hp Max and think it is way underpowered. I suggest we start using the cc of the engine when asked about the power of our 6x6's. The Max II comes with a 500cc, a 500cc high output, a 700cc, etc. This compares favorably to competitve products like the Rhino. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 166
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.208.194.41
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 12:06 am: |
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Speed unregistered= that is an interesting thought, but I can,t see how you see a RHINO as a "competetive product"----not in my world! W.Philip Cox |
Matt Cross
Member
Username: Dakota
Post Number: 20
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 75.15.192.232
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 02:50 pm: |
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Well in my opinion the name of the machines are fine . What sells is sex , just put a bunch of big hootered models in an aatv . Have them drive down a wash boarded trail. That would sell aatv's .Lets face it we are a group that belive it is ok to go slow over rough terrain . We belive that regulater maintence is good and enjoyable part of ownership. Not something you take to the dealer when it doesn't run. These are not popular beliefs around the general public.We are a unique group and should just stay the way we are |
david berger
Senior Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 344
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 72.72.56.131
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 04:45 pm: |
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it's a nice picture in your mind but in reality
the "hootered models" would hurt themselfes rideing our aatv's that way without sports bra's,
and sports bra's ruin the pictur in your mind huh.LOL
i know the old woman that used to ride with me would have gotten a black eye without a strong sports bra. |
Jerry R. Nuss, Max Dealer in Illinois
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 314
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 131.230.40.76
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 03:28 am: |
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This is an interesting discussion. I don't think the amphibious atv manufacturers can compete with the large atv companies for several reasons: The product is a niche product and does not fit the needs of the masses. The larger companies can deal in a large volume and have other products that can carry the atv when sales are slow. I hink product placement in movies and television shows would do a lot to help the amphibious atv get some recognition. I have older people approach me and they always comment along the same line; I didn't know they still made those. The younger aged people will stand around and look at one and ask a lot of questions. Normally they are turned off by lack of speed or cost of a new one. |
Eddie Beddingfield (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 205.188.116.8
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 10:05 am: |
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Jerry, You are correct,I dont see where speed should be a factor.When I am off-roading in my jeep I seldom hit 10 mph. I think most younger people that look at these only want to go thru a trail as fast as they can, Not crawl thru and enjoy the sights and terrain.The cost,What I used to tell people is can you find a ATV that will take the whole family for less money..NO.. Eddie |
Art Romska
New member
Username: Artist1018
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 09:37 pm: |
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Looking for riding areas in MIchigan? Try "The Mounds: just north of Flint in Mount Morris.
200+ acres for 4whl 6 whl & 8whl vehicles & dirt bikes!!!
E-mail me for more info.
artist1018@hotmail.com |
David Miles
New member
Username: Davidrobin
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 08:12 am: |
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Hi. I am interested in purchasing an Argo. I have contacted ODG by e-mail and have left a telephone message with their sales department three days ago. No response from them to date. I have also searched the internet and yellow pages for a dealer in my area. No luck. This is frustrating! Would anyone know of a dealer or contact in the Ottawa/Gatineau, Canada area? Help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. David. |
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