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atv curious (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 200.55.143.28
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 05:11 pm: | 
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i'm new to 6x6 atv, can anyone explain to me why wheels in aatv aparentely rotate in wrong direction?. I see the direction of rotation of wheels in jeeps, trucks, tractors an all these rotate in the same direction, but in atv are contrary.
sorry for may english and thanks for all. |
Jerry R. Nuss
Advanced Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 166
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.244.217.230
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 07:13 pm: |
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I assume you are writing about the direction of the directinal tread on the tires. It is to provide propulsion through water by making a sort of paddle with the tread. |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 200.55.143.28
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 11:18 am: |
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Thanks Jerry.
Apparently, meanwhile I don't go to water I don't benefit from wheels rotate whits patterns in that direction. I Right?? |
Jerry R. Nuss, Max Dealer in Illinois
Advanced Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 171
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.244.183.119
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 05:45 pm: |
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If you are not going into water you can mount them in the direction of the arrow on the sidewall or so the V of the tread digs in and pushes the dirt to the outside of the tire. Some people do this and others still keep them in the water speed direction so they can get better traction backing out if they lose forward progress. I have seen others mount them with the front tires with the point of the V forward or in the direction of the rotation arrow and the rear tires on reverse for propulsion in water.
With the tires mounted for water propulsion there is a tendency for mud to build up between the tires so they may get stuck easier with the tires mounted like this but then when the vehicle attempts to back out the V will push the mud to the outside and clean out between the tires.
I have seen arguements for mounting them both ways. It comes down to preference and application. I'm in the water all the time so I like mine set up for paddling. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 117
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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The cupping action of the tread is a benefit to skid steers in any loose terrain, not only water. All other machines are depending on the tire contacting something hard to provide the traction. They have narrower tires and the increased PSI on the ground allows the tire to bite. They have to sink to the bottom and the bottom has to be hard in order for the tire to do its job. The low PSI in the tire (1 to 3 PSI) and the low PSI of the machine allow a skid steer to ride on top of stuff that other machines sink into. Also the Low PSI of the skid steer tire will allow it to grip with the tread and cupping action on surfaces that a harder (5 or more PSI in the tire) tire in traction mode will spin on.
What I am trying to say is that a low PSI on the ground machine does not get much benefit from the traction mode of a tire. It has lots of tire area and little machine weight.
It really is the owner's prerogative on how he uses his tires, but skid steer machines work best in most situations with the tires on with the tread in the cupping action position. Personally, I always chuckle when I see a skid steer with the tires in traction mode. I wonder if the owner just got tired of people asking why his tires were on backwards.
It can be an advantage if someone is tracking you. Most people will go in the opposite direction. |
ATV Curious (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 200.55.143.28
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 02:12 pm: |
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Thanks Jerry and thanks Fred for explain to me yours considerations. It really help me understand why wheels should be rotate in that direction.
It seems that these machines will need to "flotate" on top of the ground. Maybe because its litle ground clearance (compared with others machines) that they ever try not to loose grond behind wheels. Tires in traction mode pull apart ground and increase de risk of put the belly on the ground thats is a good reason to get stuck. |
Jerry R. Nuss, Max Dealer in Illinois
Advanced Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 185
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.244.219.127
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 03:04 pm: |
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Very low psi on the ground is the secret to the success of the machine. The machine only needs enough ground pressure to provide enough friction for forward movement. Fred is tireless in trying to get this message across and it often falls on deaf ears. He is very knowledgeable with a great deal of experience with the amphibious atv. Not only is ground pressure significant but it needs to be evenly distributed. By taking the weight of the machine and dividing it by the surface area of the tire patch does not give an accurate representation of the true psi on the ground. Some machines are built with the majority of their weight located toward the front or rear of the machine so the pressure is not distributed evenly. This can cause the machine to dig in and get stuck. Fortunately most of the machines perform very well and the weight issue can be over come with good judgement and driving ability.
Addressing your thoughts on ground clearance and getting high centered. The machines are built with a flat bottom that is normally slick with nothing to get hung up. The traction advantage will normally just slide the bottom over obstacles. The driver and passenger can also shift their weight or rock the wehicle to assist with weight transfer to get more traction to the vehicle and slide it over obstacles. There are group rides to trails like the Rubicon trail and the machines can easily negotiate the trail. Ground clearance is not a great issue in my opinion, unless a person is trying to go through deep powder or soft mud, then the best is to float on top with tracks or wide tires to minimize ground pressure.
Since this thread was about tires I would like to address something that irritates me and that is using knobby deep lug tires that are nondirectional amphibious tires. A lot of people will put on knobby tires thinking the tires are a good replacement and work better on the machine. They do not work better. They won't swim and the tires are hard on the ground and can cause premature failure of the drivetrain and excessive wear of parts. I've met several new amphibious atv owners who were unhappy with their atvs performance because of improper tires. I experienced this myself with my machine. It would not swim and was jerking turning. When I put on a correct set of tires the machine came to life with a completely different feel and driveability. It could turn extremely well and actually swam in the water.
When the amphibious atv does what it was designed to do it is an absolute total blast and makes other vehicles look silly. That was just my rant. I've wanted an amphibious since I was a kid and I rode in one with my neighbor down the road was an Attex dealer. My Dad always said no and that they were junk. Years later when I was in the Army as an MP stationed at Ft. Knox, KY I was patrolling around and came across a motorpool area with about 6 amphibious atvs and I got the bug again. So I finally decided to get one. Now I wouldn't want anything else. |
ATV Curious (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 200.55.143.28
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 09:11 pm: |
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Wooowwww. very fast response!!!.
I post my early message only 1 hour before and get an answer. Thank Jerry.
I deplore myself for my poor hability to write in English to explain my thoughts. I read well and understand yours messages.
Jerry, I thank you very much (and Fred) for your explanations. Its really consume your time.
I feel guilty of being asking and asking question over question and really don't plan to buy any aatv, (I can't even though I wish) but still so curious.
Long before, I impressed by Hummers (H1 by far) for its hability to pass trogh dificult terrain, they looks heavy duty etc. But recently I discovery very small machines that can do the same and lots more and cost only 7% aprox!!! How they can do?!!, Is amazing and I become very curious. I really understand your tale about when you was a kid and wanted an aatv.
So, I still asking.
Do you think the wheel sise (in diameter, I know wider seems better) afect the general performance of an aatv?
In other words, a hipotetically MaxIV will perform diferent (or very diferent) if it use whells of 22", 25" or 26"?.
Any suggestion on what tires work better in an aatv.
Thanks in advance. |
Jerry R. Nuss, Max Dealer in Illinois
Advanced Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 188
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.244.183.89
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 02:27 am: |
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The larger tires will perform better if the machine has enough torque to turn them. The larger the diameter the higher the ground clearance and the easier it will be for the vehicle to climb over obstacles. The Max IV with 26" tires and a 23 or 27 hp motor is an extremely capable machine. I was in the Army when there was a change over from the M151 Jeep to the Humvee (H1). My vehicle got a punctured fuel tank on the first trip out. The fuel tank was some type of opaque plastic. After that we frequently had power steering pumps go out and had an automatic transmission fail. This was not from just one vehicle but from several in my squad. CV boots would get torn and the joint would fail. They really didn't go through anything that the jeep couldn't go through and got held back a lot due to their size. They were a pain to operate in Panama and Germany trying to fit down streets. They did have a nice heater though and were more comfortable to sleep in than the jeep. You can find used ones on Ebay now for around $5000 to $6000 if you are patient. |
Dennis F. Saskowski
Member
Username: Sasko
Post Number: 46
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 24.48.103.90
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 12:10 am: |
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Tire sizes are like talking about the different makes and models of aatv's.Different sizes all have thier moments to shine for a given condition.But given the choice I will still have 26'' on my max 4 with the 25hp.Saw a max 4 with a18hp that did pretty good on a aggresive trail. |
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