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Message |
    
terry harrison
Junior Member
Username: Th3
Post Number: 17
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 63.67.88.15
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 05:35 pm: | 
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i cant keep the t-20 in my maxiv bolted to the frame. the mounting bolts keep coming loose and/or shearing off. i had some additional bracing fabricated along with adding steel plate to the mounting area on the frame for additional thickness and upgrading the bolts to grade 8 but they still come loose/shear off.
i believe the next step is to completely enclose the t-20 with a mounting cage.
has anyone else had this problem? |
Bill cripe
Junior Member
Username: Bcripe
Post Number: 18
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 148.64.161.186
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 07:58 pm: |
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What Max IV do you have?
BC |
terry harrison
Junior Member
Username: Th3
Post Number: 18
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 63.67.88.15
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 11:52 pm: |
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2002 900t (25hp kohler command) |
Bill cripe
Junior Member
Username: Bcripe
Post Number: 19
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 148.64.161.186
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 10:44 am: |
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I understand that the tranny mount was a problem that has been changed by the factory like the snap ring axles.
BC |
Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon Price)
Intermediate Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 51
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.27.205.37
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 03:26 pm: |
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Terry, does your T-20 have studs that slide into a notch in the frame, then use a nut to tighten? I don't know when they changed it, but new vehicles have a hole in the frame where you use a bolt that screws into the trans. I know the stud design does come loose with the larger HP engines like yours. If you have that design, you may consider updating to the new bolt style. |
david berger
Advanced Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 187
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.172.51.212
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 04:43 pm: |
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i hope the ansers already given help you out, but im hear just to mention that grade 8 bolts arnt always the anser to every problem, the harder something meatle is the more brittle it is as well.
at some point well befor grade 8 you will find the best bolt for this job, one with best over all strenth for the type of aplication,
the factory might be able to give you a helpful starting point.
(and let us not forget red or blue thred locker) |
Bill cripe
Member
Username: Bcripe
Post Number: 20
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 148.64.161.186
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 06:52 pm: |
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Brandon, Is that something that can be updated easily? Have you heard of this problem alot?
Thanks,
BC |
Dennis F. Saskowski
Member
Username: Sasko
Post Number: 30
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 67.23.117.26
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 10:10 pm: |
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Brandon wasn't that that issue taken care of in 2000 ? my '99 was revised by factory when it was in for another unrelated issue.they welded stiffeners on the mount.seems like folks were shearing bolts on the right side.everybody talks about the increased power of a 25hp snapping t-20 bolts/mounts but one of our club members runs a 4cyl. car motor in his max 4.i'm sure his trans is stiffened.i've always thought the culprate was that the t-20 is pulled up on the max 4,instead of back like the max2.i'm open for other opinions.i put a limiter strap on the right side of my engine mount plt. so as to keep things square when the engine revs up and doesn't pull downward as much.this might eliminate some of the rockin' and rollin' going on between the motor and the t-20,so far 200hrs no problem. |
philip w.cox
Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 48
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 209.226.175.59
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 11:41 pm: |
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Terry--I have always been interested in your split T20 modification. Is there any chance that the split T20 shifters have anything to do with your loose mounting bolt problems? I hope that you get the problem solved and continue testing the split mod.because sooner or later it could be on all new Max's. W. Philip--Trying to keep the rubber side down. |
terry harrison
Junior Member
Username: Th3
Post Number: 19
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 63.67.88.15
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 11:45 pm: |
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brandon,
right now my max is in the shop about an hour from here. the last time i looked (last year) i remember seeing just holes in the frame (where the bolts should have been) not notches.
david,
i believe you are right about grade 8 being brittle. during the last repair the 8's were installed with loc tite applied to the threads, but broke after the first ride, the stock bolts lasted over a year. i do need to mention that i didnt run into this problem until after i split my t-20 a couple of years ago and started running the tire banks in opposite directions.
dennis,
i suspected split shifting was causing the problem but after reading your post it sounds like others are having the same problem without a split t-20. interesting........got any pics of your limiting strap? |
terry harrison
Member
Username: Th3
Post Number: 20
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 63.67.88.15
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 12:13 am: |
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phillip,
yes, i didnt have any problems until i split the tranny, although i made the modification not long after i bough the max. i thought i understood the increased forces applied to the t20 when the sides are run in opposite directions so i had some crescent shaped braces installed that attach from the top of the t20 to the rear of the frame where the braces are welded solid to the frame. i thought this would help hold things in place but it didnt. |
mike abbey
Member
Username: Mike_abbey
Post Number: 25
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 67.174.128.16
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 02:21 pm: |
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i had bolts on the t-20 in the starcraft that kept coming loose so i installed studs and epoxed them in and used nylock nuts.i havnt had problems since |
Dennis F. Saskowski
Member
Username: Sasko
Post Number: 31
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 67.23.117.26
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 03:13 pm: |
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Terry,I't would be a while before I could post a picture so I'll give a verbal on the limiter strap.Drill a hole on the right side of the engine mount plt.(on the side),run a cable thimble through it then a 1/8''cable over it,run down to outboard side of the frame straight down ,run under frame,attach other end to round cross over on the inboard side,just run cable as tight as you can get it by hand, tighten u-bolts and thats it.You will still have the benifits of the rubber isolaters but it will limit the tilting force,you will still see the motor pitch down when you rev the motor,but it's the hard loads that pull it down you won't see when your driving,hills towing etc..I'm sure this keeps the belt a little more sqaure in the pulleys.Post back if you need a better explanation. Dennis |
terry harrison
Member
Username: Th3
Post Number: 21
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 63.67.88.15
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 09:58 am: |
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i talked to the mechanic last week and after looking at the damage and talking to ri about the problem it was decided that frame flex was the cause. (ri claims it is the bolts getting loose/ i dont see how with lock tight) more braces will be installed to stiffen up the frame and 7/16 bolts will be used to replace the sheared ones. im heading over to the shop today to take a look at the progress. ill have my camera with me.
dennis,
when you get a chance would you post a pic of the strap. i think i have the pic in my head but i want to be sure. thanks. |
terry harrison
Member
Username: Th3
Post Number: 22
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 63.67.88.15
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 08:44 pm: |
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after looking at the t-20 it is evident that the 4 bolts on the right side didnt come loose, they just sheared at the head. there was no deformity what so ever at the bolt holes in the frame that indicated the bolts had come loose.
all eight bolt holes in the t-20 will be drilled out to almost 1/2" and 7/16" stainless helicoil installed.(yes, there is enough material in the boss to alow the holes to be drilled out that much) 7/16" grade 5 bolts will be used instead of grade 8 (the fact that the smaller grade 8 bolts gave it up so quickly led us to believe that grade 8 is too brittle for this application) . a 1/4" plate will be welded in under the t-20 between the frame rails to box in the bottom of the frame and a plate will be welded in at the rear of the frame between the extra braces that were added last time to box in the rear of the frame. this has got to fix the problem. it is going to take a butt load of torque to break 7/16" bolts, but i believe the frame or internal t-20 parts will give first.
i took some pics ill post later. |
terry harrison
Member
Username: Th3
Post Number: 24
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 63.67.89.223
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 10:08 am: |
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here is a pic of the extra supports that were installed last time.
another
here is a pic of the size difference between the stock mounting bolt and the 7/16 that will replace it. |
philip w.cox
Intermediate Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 57
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 209.226.251.183
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 07:40 pm: |
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Terry- the new bigger diam. bolt looks good.Also there is a rule about not having the threaded portion of the bolt in the shear plane.(IE; The unthreaded shoulder of the bolt must extend through the frame and any reinforcing and washer) The new bolt appears to meet this requirment as well-please let us know. Also an "after testing "report on the pontoons is going to be worth it's weight in 97 octane. W. Philip Cox |
terry harrison
Member
Username: Th3
Post Number: 28
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 63.67.88.15
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 09:39 pm: |
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got the ole 6x6 back today. took it for a test ride and everything is silky smooth.
changes to the stock t-20 set up are as follows:
3/8 plate added to the frame to thicken up the t-20 mounting area on the frame
small gusset removed from between the frame rails under the t-20 and a 1/4 plate welded in place to box in the bottom side of the frame under the t-20
crescent shaped rear braces welded to rear of frame to connect the top of t-20 to rear of frame
an additional 1/4 plate welded between the crescent braces and bottom plate to box in rear of frame and tie everything together
7/16 grade 5 mounting bolts to replace stock bolts
the forward brace straps that connect the top of the t-20 to the frame next to the battery were removed altogether.
THEORY: it is possible that these forward mounting straps my actually be the cause of the problem to begin with. the frame flexes causing the straps push on the top of the t-20 shearing the mounting bolts. now that the frame is boxed in and the forward straps removed the only flex in the frame will be ahead of the boxed in area having no effect on the t-20 mounting area.
although the confidence level is high, time will tell as to weather this will solve the problem or not. i am going to wait till duck season is over before i punish it to see if its goint to hold up. |
jim stefanowicz
New member
Username: Maxindetroit1
Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 64.12.116.203
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 12:42 am: |
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I beat my 94 Max2 on a regular basis, deer hunting, duck hunting, dragging deer, dragging wood, climbing log jams, never had any problems with the mounting bolts shearing off, or comeing lose. |
david berger
Senior Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 207
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.146.122.40
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 08:51 am: |
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jim i don't think this is a problem found in maxII becaues mountings are diferent, the vehicle lighter and not as big an engine ether, although the engins contrabution is not as big a factor as fraim design diferences.
you should have no problem with your trany mount, maybe the rest of your fraim will eventualy give up as mine has, but you would have to beat it alot more. (i have pic's but there too dang big to upload) |
jim stefanowicz
New member
Username: Maxindetroit1
Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 64.12.116.203
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 11:42 pm: |
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Thanks David, for the good news, glad to hear. |
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