Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through February 3, 2001	25
	Archive through March 14, 2001	1

By twobears on Unrecorded Date: Edit

i just got the edge plans.there ok,but could be much better.it looks like we all think alike.subaru is my car of chose to make a 6X6. i,am all ready looking for one.i plan on using the motor,a automatic trans and the diff.with a fiberglass body.the motor will be front mounted.one spring loaded tractor seat for me and a bench seat in back.i also plan on having a rollcage.i will have plactic panals to enclose the cab in winter and a heater.up here i will also need snow tracks for winter.you can get them from tru trax.com .argo wants $1300 for a set of 6x6 tracks.tru trax gets $809.oo.

By twobears on Unrecorded Date: Edit

the website address for tru trax is www.trutrax.qpg.com.

By Warren Surman (Wazza) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I purchased the edge plans - read em' - threw them out and stared my own.( What a waste of $66.00 )
I have commenced building my own fibreglass body, plug will be finished in a few weeks so if you are in Perth WA and want to use the mould for your own fibre glass creation just email me.

By Wally on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hello fellow 6x6 builders -
I'm planning a 6x6 using a snowmobile engine/drive (lots of snow in Canada) and an aluminum body. I'm thinking that using available parts will be easier and cheaper to build and maintain than trying to restore a vintage 6x6. Has anyone sourced good bearing/seal parts? The seals need to be well designed for waterproofing and durability.

I too ordered the Edge plans and waiting to get them.

Looking for suggestions.

Thanks -- Wally

By Glen Strange on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey!
I,m yet another Aussie building the Edge 6x6. Sure ,I can already see the limitations in the existing plans, but I plan to modify anything that I am not happy with! I'm interested in contacting anyone who could provide a body or mould. I plan to use carbon steel for the axles and a lip seal gland plate to seal the axles to the body.I teach engineering in a TAFE college so the whole machine might end up a student project! I will also spline all sprockets onto shafts, with a split clamp to ensure that there is no backlash.
I,m also a bit keen to add a jet pump from a jet ski to the hull. I see that an old Scrambler had this type of water propulsion.
I read that someone else reckoned that people with 6x6 experience should combine to design a really good plan set for a home built 6x6.
This is a great idea and I would love to contribute. Can the route 6x6 crew set up a forum?
Greetings from down under!

By TYE KIRWIN on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi,
Iam another aussie builbing the EDGE6x6.I have a honda 750cc bike motor driving through a 3speed gearbox/diff from a sit on lawn mower. The plans have been widen.I will send some photo,s to Route 6x6 when its built.

By phil on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Contact the owner of www.powercanoe.com as to jet pumps.I sold him a berkley pump that was small and mounts to a flat floor.All aluminum construction.

By Smokey 2 Cycle on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I was thinking...that's the problem. There are plenty of cheap old aluminum boats for sale all over my part of the country. A deep hull boat, shortened and welded back together may be a base for a homebuilt 6x6 body. The hull would obviously have to be modified to get 90 degree angle plate aluminum for the axles bearings and seals etc. + a host of other modifications. Has anyone else thought of this. I'm not getting technical about the running gear setup but swaping the guts out of an older 6x6 that has a dilapidated ABS plastic body would be a start.

By Arlie on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I think Smokey is correct. It would seem to be far easier to add axles to a boat and make it run on dry land, than it would be to waterproof a wheeled vehicle and make it run in water. Didn't some guys make high powered swamp buggies out of boats by adding huge wheels and powering the craft with Chevy engines? Seems like I saw a TV show with some of those strange looking buggies and they would go just about anywhere FAST!!!

By Gerry on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Does anyone have any info on Dick Gaudets home built atv shown on this site?I have one, powered by a 4 cyl. Subaru,that I would like to restore.

By Cadpowered on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have read this thread with interest an amusement. Some of you talk about a non-water proof vehicle with all kinds of complicated drives etc. If you are willing to go non-waterproof (even though it was waterproof), look at the Military M29 Weasel from the WW2 era some were even built with a prop on the back. Very simple and very effective. All you need to do is build smaller if you feel it is to big (5 foot by 10 foot). It was built with a simple old flat head 4 or 6 cyc engine, conventional 3 speed truck tranie, conventional drive-shaft, conventional truck rearend, drive sprockets vs wheel and tracks with bogies. Steering was with the original brakes on the rear, a lever for each side. If you think 6 wheels with all of the chains and sprockets are going to out perform tracks, you need to look at the Tucker Snow Cats and the Bombardier Muskeg Mud Tractor. I have researched this issue for the last three years and have pictures of just about every kind of 6 wheel, 8 wheel, or track ATV ever made. Decided long a go that the track system was the easiest, cheapest, and best. The VW idea is great, use sprockets or wheels, (small wheels or small sprockets to reduce top end), make tracks from conveyor belts, split the brakes lever to each side and go for it. If you want a quick enclosed cab just get a Diahatsu (very small) golf/park cab-over truck and put it on the VW pan. Or cut the cab corners off of the Diahatsu and put tracks on it, split the brakes and you have a track ATV. I like the heaver units so I cut the cab corners off of a Jeep FC 150, split the brakes, made tracks from farm tractor tires and I have a trac ATV that goes very well. . It wouldn’t be that hard to build a small unit on the same principle from a garden tractor it might look like the Cushman Trackster, I haven’t tried, it would be to small for my needs. I own a Hustler so I do have a conventional 6x6 AATV, also owned an M29 Weasel.
Not trying to rain on anyone’s parade, just thought the info might help make your ideas a lot less expensive and easier.

By Doug Barker on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Cadpowered,
Lets recap the vehicles in your "thread"
M29 weasel
Tucker Snow Cat
Bombardier Muskeg Mud Tractor
Every kind of 6/8 wheeler or tracked vehicle.......EVER MADE
Volkswagon
Diahatsu cabover truck
Jeep FC150
Garden tractor
Cushman Trackster
Hustler

Now for the components:
Propeller
4/6 cyl flathead engine
3 speed truck tranny
drive shaft
Truck rearend
Sprockets, small wheels, tracks, bogies?
Conveyer belts
Tracter tires

What exactly was your point????
Now I'm amused

By roadwolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

well cadpower, it seems that us stupid 6 and 8 wheel amphibs were in the dark , until you came along! the reason is simple why don't have ww2 and vw tech is we want light weight!!! also, why in the deep blue pacific did you wait 3 flippin' years to tell this nonsense?

By Cadpowered on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi Doug Barker and roadwolf. I read back through all of the post on this subject, I somehow missed your experience and results, if you could re-input I would like to read about it. I'm sure it will show you thinking outside the box. roadwolf I didn't see the thread until this month.

By Doug Barker on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I was thinking about adapting a lawn tractor into an idea I have for an amphibious vehicle.
Since it would have the basic components that I would need for a test vehicle (forward/rev trans, elect start, brakes, some steering parts, ect) it seems like a low cost way to test other parts of my design without having to buy each part separately.
Has anyone ever used tractor drivetrain parts on an ATV ?

By bigkodiak on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Pete Cagle had thought about it a couple of years ago but I don't know if he ever tried anyting. He was going to convert over a hydrostatic drive from a Sears (I think)Lawn tractor into a Sierra Trailboss for the kids.

By GrapeApe on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I seem to have issues with keeping axle bearings on my MAX II alive for more than 18 months. I have tried greasing them on a weekly basis (although I am not impressed with the grease zerk locations). The internal bearings seem to have no issues, but the sealed, external bearings just don't last. I'm getting good at doing bearing swaps. Does anyone have any thoughts about keeping the bearings alive longer. I use the machine on a dairy farm, daily for about 7 to 8 months of the year. I'm speculating that the acidic slop in the barn yard is eating the seals out of the bearings. I put in more expensive bearings on all 6 points last spring hoping they may last longer. Has anyone else had this type of problem? Is this just inherent to this type of machine? Other than this small problem I love my MAX II and it has more than earned its keep in my mind.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

GrapeApe, I'm thinking you might be greasing them too much (with too much grease). If you force grease out of the sealed area, you have ruined the seal. The primary reason for the grease is to fill the cavity and keep water out of that area. These are low speed bearings and they don't need a lot of lubrication. A couple of times a year with a squirt or two is usually adequate. I certainly wouldn't grease them any more often than I changed engine oil (every fifty hours). I grease outer bearings spring and fall, about six months apart. I take the wheels off to grease and I make sure the bearing flange bolts are uniformly tight while I have the wheels off. I was in the corrals a lot at my other place (before I basically retired) and I have yet to have a bearing fail (I had 245 hours on my original Max II before I sold it.)

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

How do you know if the bearings are gone??I don't know if any of you have ever looked at my profile, but the pic of my ARGO showed the one front tire being worn only on the sides. The middle of the tire is not worn. Would this be a bad bearing?? Why can't i put a picture in my profile??

By ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

HEY ARGOMAG:

you should notice a "bad" bearing when you heard ummm noise from bearing area and also smoke/heat...about your your worn tire at edges sound like you run them "under pressure" on hard surface you should get "full contact" between tire and ground........

By GrapeApe on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Fred4dot, Thanks for the insight on the bearing. I too made sure that the flange bolts were tight, before greasing the bearings. The grease never came out of the bearing seal area but comes out from the flange area around the external race of the bearing. My MAX II gets about 210 hours of use per season. That doesn't include my usage during the off season which is almost nothing.

Argomag, One sure fire way to tell if you have a bearing with a blown out seal is to take the tire off and look at the bearing. If you can see the balls, or if you can see the seal sitting off center you probably have a bad seal, which as was stated will really put a damper on your amphibiousness. If you jack up, or drive your machine up onto block such that your "bad bearing" suspect axle's corresponding wheel is off the ground you should not be able to move the wheel up and down. At least that's the way it is with my MAX... Dunno about Argos. Just be careful not to drop the machine on you or anybody else when you have it in the air.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

GrapeApe, the bearings are on the wheeles or on the axles?? Their is a flange or nipple on the axle on the outside, and one on the inside of the vehicle on the axle, by the frame. Does anyone have a picture of where the bearings are on the ARGO?

By GrapeApe on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Argomag, I unfortunately don't have first hand knowledge on the ARGO machines. My MAX II has two sets of bearings per axle. If you remove the wheel you can see one bearing located in a three-bolt flange. This bearing is a sealed bearing. If you look inside the body of the machine you can see the second bearing located on the inner part of the frame. This bearing is not sealed. Both bearing have grease fittings or nipples, the internal bearings are a little harder to get at with the grease gun.... at least on the MAX? Have you tried getting a repair manual for your ARGO?

By dave snell on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hi chaps just come across your great site love the concept of these 8x8 hope to build one of my own .if anyone wants to chuck the plans my way i ll pay the postage

By steve boland on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I'm building an 8x8 and I was woundering if any gearheads out there had any input on my differant drive arrangment. instead of engine/clutch to driven clutch/t-20 to jackshafts. I'm running engine/clutch to driven clutch on a jackshaft with a sprocket and a chain to a sproket on the t-20. The t-20 will opporate more efficiently at the slower speed and I lose a jack shaft, 2 bearings, 2 sprokets and a chain.what do you think?

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Steve, The Max IV has no jackshafts - the tranny output goes direct to the rear axle. If you are going to have eight wheels, why not put the T-20 in front of the engine (with engine and tranny both on the frame) and power the third axle. You are going to change your gearing measurably or you will need a large sprocket on the T-20 in place of the driven pulley.

The T-20 does not need to run at a slower speed to be efficient (it is a straight through device losing very little HP to internal function).

By steve on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The max II has jackshafts. If I put the t-20 infront of the engine like I wanted to and like it is in the maxII it will go faster in reverse.

I need gear reduction because I'm running 8 wheel dual 28" tires (16) with a kohler 25hp.

The gear reduction is the same whether it is infront or inback of the t-20. I'm starting with a 1.7 to 1 jackshaft reduction.

If you take your fingers and turn the input of the t-20 you will find resistance in the gearing, and that resistance can be decreased because with the gear reduction before it it has to turn much less.
The brakes working on the drums closer geared to the axel speed and further from the engine speed (slower) should give the brakes more leverage, which would also make the t-20 last longer.

does your engine/clutch turn the same way as your wheels in forward?

By steve on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The power is best delivered to the rear axel making the slack side of the chains in forward at the top where there is space for the idlers, so there is less stress on them.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Steve, yes, the max drive pulley and driven pulley turns the same direction as the wheels when in forward gear.

I really don't understand what you have in mind or how you are going to set this all up because the T-20 controls are in front. It sounds like you intend to use a separate brake system to turn instead of the T-20 internal brakes. I also don't understand how you can get the T-20 to go faster in reverse (many parts do double duty so forward speed and reverse speed have to be equal).

Oh well, good luck in your endeavor.

By dave snell (Ukdave) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hello to all
found your site and like theses vehicles .would like to build one .id like an 8x8 .ive got a transverse 1.4 litre petrol and box ;would this be any use .any useful comments will be appreciated.great site.
p.s im english and will follow the us into any battle but as long as we get the big v8s and the cheap gas ,is it a deal ? dave

By Steve Douglas on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I am new to the world of 6 WHEEL atv's love the ride and control and a real work horse! I would like to have a set of tracks but cost is the big factor.Has anyone made a good set of tracks for a MAX II ? I saw where grapeape made some from old tractor tires Thanks for any info you could give. You can reach me at dozerdouglas@copper.net

By kush on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Cadpowered, how did you make those tracks from Farm Tractor tires? Do you have any pics you could post?

By Dennis Slodysko on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Back in the 60's give or take, I think Mechanix Illustrated or one of the other mechanics mag.had a project to build a 6 wheeler out of plywood and used a Dixon Z-turn mower tranny. There was a pic on the front cover.Does any one know the year and month of that issue. Or better have the mag.
newbie
Dennis

By Sean Farley on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a axle that is going go into a hole in a piece of sheet metal on my rig, and I would like to know where I could find some type of rubber thingie that will go on a 1" axle, so that my rig will float(water proof) if anyone has any idea what i'm talkin about E-mail me and let me know where to find one. farley4@bellsouth.net

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

what about cork? The ARGO vehicles use cork to seal the area where the axle goes into the body of the machine. THe only downside is that cork expands and contracts so Im not sure how you keep all the bolts tight, and I don't know if it is the most watertight, but if they are using it, it must be.

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

david,and sean,
i don't know if this is something new or not,but i just ordered a new set of seals fo rmy bigfoot,and they came with a fibre type gasket,not the cork. i did get cork when i did the bearings.me and the dealer were confused.so i used them,with a little silicone sealer.sean, the inside diameter was 2" for a 1"you might go to an auto parts store and get a sheat of gasket material,and make a couple.the argo uses 2 per axle with a steal flange between them.in other words bearing housing,gasket,flange,gasket,body. and as far as keeping the bolts tight,i went with nylon lock nuts,and lock-tite.i sure hope this works.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Mike, am I right though about the bolts loosening off if you were to use cork? It expands and contracts, so it must unless you crank them so tight and use the lock nuts.

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

david you are right about the expansion and contraction.something i found that helps is to first soak your corks in water for about an hr.crank em down and then recheck them after a good ride.you might get about a 1/4 more turn" depending" on how long you run the machine.then after that they should stay tight. i didn't soak these new gaskets,so i don't know how they're going to work yet.i'll let you know after this weekend.

By Darren H on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi Folks

I am new to 6x6/8x8 atv's but have decided it would make a great project for me and the kids to build one, I was initially going to buy an old one and restore but they are pretty expensive and rare here in the UK, so I am now looking at creating my own !
It is great to read the forums and tap into all the different ideas of how and why to do things.

I am going for an articulated 8x8 ?
Looking at the way Hagglund tracked vehicles work I think it could be pretty neat and also easy to control (even for the kids).

Rather than making a mould and casting fibre glass from that I will build the shell by foam carving and then coating it with either fibreglass (surfboard type construction) or one of the new incredibly strong polyurethane coatings now available !

I want to build a drive train that can be housed outside the shells (ease of maintenance etc), Quads seem to run ok in allsorts of crap with their parts hanging out, so I am looking at pinching some of their bits and see where it leads me ?

If anyone has gone this route please let me know if I am nuts :0)

By Howard Hoover on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Darren I like your idea about the foam carving I would like to know more about this process if you can tell me. Like what type of foam do you use etc. What do you carve it with? a hot knife
an electric knife or what? I know a guy in TN here in the USA who does Vacuum Forming after you make your mold out of wood he makes a copy out of fiberglass for the vacuum process but I don't see why you couldn't do it this way it sounds like it would be less time consuming and easier also. I have only seen one thing on this subject and that was on a surfing video called Endless Summer and it wasn't very informative it was just a small bit in the movie about a guy making surf boards.
Thanks Howard Hoover H_N_H@msn.com

By Darren H on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi Howard

There are two main types of foam used for carving: Extruded Polystyrene generally known in the U.S. as Pink or Blue foam (Not the white Expanded Polystyrene made of little beads), and Polyurethane foam (the aerosol stuff for filling gaps falls into this catagory but we are more interested in the two pack ones).

Polystyrene : You would generally buy this in sheet form (say 3") stick it together into the rough shape desired then carve it using Hot Wire Cutting tools, then it can be coated with a top layer of either ROSCO "Foamcoat" or INDUSTRIAL POLYMERS "Styrospray 715" or "Styrocast 500", these products can be sanded and give a rigid finish but they will crack on there own so idealy you need to put some glass down whilst you are applying these coats or you can use standard fibreglass products over the top (If you try to use standard fibreglass straight on the Polystyrene it will melt).

"POLYURETHANE" : With Polyurethane you can build some incredibly light and strong products although the technique is slghlty different from polystyrene.
Firstly you would start by constructing an armature out of Mesh/Chicken wire (this is good because you can build in metal anchor points etc or even the main chassis including wiring), when you are happy with this you can apply your Polyurethane, aerosols are ok for small jobs but for something like this you want to be using two pack forms, you can get it in tin form where you mix the two parts together then pour it (messy) or you can buy a sprayable kit, DOW Industries do one called FROTH-PAK.
Carving: Unfortunately you can't Hot Wire Polyurethane as it gives off poisoness gases so it is down to the good old hand and power tools we all have in the garages somewhere ! Sureform rasps are good because they don't create dust, but somewhere along the line you are going to make a lot of mess so be prepared !
When you are happy with your creation you can coat it with just about anything you want as cured Polyurethane is pretty bomb proof !
It will take the products mentioned for polystyrene or you can use fibreglass straight onto it, BUT there are also some other products (Not Cheap but Incredible) one is INDUSTRIAL POLYMERS "Speedliner" it is the stuff they coat the back of pickup trucks with and is damn near indestructable !

(When polyurethane is curing it gives off poisoness fumes so always wear and mask and make sure you are well ventilated or have adequate extraction)

If you want to find out more about foam carving I suggest looking at Theming (theme park type product construction) and artificial rock construction as both of these industries use these methods extensively !

I hope this helps ?

By shelzac on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Howard,
I have looked into different projects using fiberglass over foam. I have not done anything with it, but did come across a site that has some info on it. It looks like a pretty neat way to do one off construction and you can come up with some pretty cool lines and designs. Hope this site helps.

http://www.rqriley.com/frp-foam.html

Sheldon

By roadwolf.com on Unrecorded Date: Edit

darren h, the route 6x6 interstate is littered with far too many deserted unfinnished homemade projects. you would be much wiser to start out with a reconditioner.

By Howard Hoover on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks for the info Sheldon
and yes it helps it's always good to have
other options.
Howard Hoover

By darrenh on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hello Roadwolf

I totally agree, a reconditioner would be much better but unfortunately here in the UK there isn't the abundance of second hand vehicles at reasonable prices as there is the other side of the pond ;0)
Funny enough though, there is an 8x8 argo just popped up on Ebay over here and I am keeping my eye on it! have a look and see what you think ? you will find it under "argocat"
Probably not the wisest of things to tell everone about it but maybe it is better to get other peoples advice on these things.
Thanks Darren H

By norm howard on Unrecorded Date: Edit

It looks like a 1980 vintage 8x8. Probably has the 16 HP. Techumseh engine & single row # 50 chains. Priced right.

By DarrenH on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hello Norm, roadwolf everyone

Well I've done the deed !
I am now the proud owner of a 8x8 ARGO, not the yellow one that was on Ebay, but another one that appeared a couple of days later !
It is a newer model than the other but is lacking an engine so that will give me plenty to do with my son over the winter months, once I have collected it this coming week my first job will be to strip it and rebuild from the ground up. "wish me luck" !

Regards

Darren H

By Richard Broussard on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I visited this site a month ago for the first time. I read some where in this site about an elderly man that was handicapped who built his own hydraulic 6 or 8 wheeler. He complained that it had too much power, and he would spin the tires if he wanted to. He also said it did about 25mph if I remember correctly. If any one can help me with getting in touch with the gut by e-mail or other means it would surely be appreciated. My e-mail is poorcajun@aol.com

By roadwolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

well, mr. broussard, the reason you may not of heard of the old timer is, maybe he just isn't around anymore. what i mean is if he was toolin around in a hydro-phib at 25 m.p.h., maybe it's r.i.p.

By Eric Toms ( - 168.150.242.57) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hello all,

Nice to find like minded folks.

Has anyone heard of building a steel or aluminum hull that can
be bolted to a current jeep or truck to make a new GPA or DUKW
type vehicle?

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Eric -

I've thought about it, but I don't know of anyone who's tried it. You'd also need to modify the transfer case, or provide some kind of PTO, to drive the prop shaft...