Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through March 9, 2001	8
	Archive through March 9, 2001	1

By Michael Hucks on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well I received the order of all three Max AMPHIBIOUS ATVs and I must say I am really impressed. I was completly taken by suprise by these machines. I have been driving quads for years and now they don't even come close to meeting the performance of the Max. My friends are stunned and I think they can also see the benefits. We went on a night ride through some S.C. swamps Saturday my friend bought a max from me and they told us to lead the way. About half way through the ride we looked back to find no one. Not a single four wheeler could hang with us. No Way. Not even the big bad Hondas with the 27" vampire tires, I can idle through holes they cant make it through. My Max is a 600T with the 22" Rawhide tires and a few options. I ordered three machines and R.I. made me a dealer for three counties here in S.C. The only drawbacks that I have encountered is the weak factory, dealer relationship and maybe some type of inexpensive suspension system perhaps built into the seat. But overall I give to very big thumbs up, and trust me that means alot to come from me.

By jim on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I had a 1980 argo 6x6 2 stroke I used to get stuck alot are the new ones different

By Twin Creek Taz on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I had a Argo 8 IC for many years and a Argo 6 standard. The IC was a good machine but it doesn't come close to my Honda Rubicon 4x4. The Rubicon is years ahead of Argo in invitations. I still have the IC but let my nephew use it.

By Twin Creek Taz on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Here in Idaho most of the ATV trails are just barely wide enough for my Honda Rubicon. I think you would run into problems driving a wide Argo or Max in these places.

By David Sanders on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Twin Creek Taz ) I recently bought a new Max IV with the 25 Hp motor in it,,,and I am "very" disappointed in the build quality, from what I have now seen ( if you can call it build quality at all? ). I wish now I had bought a Bigfoot and put the 25 inch Vampire tires on it,and beefed up the motor as well,just like Matt has done on his Big foot.

I recently watched one of the Video,s made by John Swhab taken at the Badlands. The Amphibs get stuck a lot more than I ever thought they would. They high center very easy too. I live in Lousiana
where there is lot of mud,,swamps,creeks,,bayous,
and the riders that have the Big ATV,s like to use the agressive High lifter "Outlaw" tires,with the really agressive side walls. My friend has a Highlifter lift kit on his Polaris Sportsman 500 and it has 16 inches of ground clearance. With a really good rider aboard,,and "snorkles" on the rear pipe and intake,,,they can ride in water up to the handle bars. These machines over all,,in my opinion,,,will out perform all amphips in all but the deepest water conditions. You have exellant build quality ----> Honda 500 Rubicon or Honda 650 Ricon,higher output motor,more ground clearance,,and a lot more comfort as you ride.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Maybe your 4 wheelers will do that stuff but can they be used in deep snow without bogging down, getting stuck? I think not! Can they do on the spot turns in tight areas? I think not.

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David,
If you think your friends quad will out perform all 6x6's, then you and your friend needs to head up north. I promise that my Max IV &/or my Max II will go places that your friends quad can't. Since you saw that tape that John made of the Badlands ride, every time you saw us stuck we were in mud holes anywhere from 3' to ? deep. A couple of mud pits I was in and made it through I put a tree branch in to see if I could touch bottom and I couldn't. The branch was about 12'long. Put a quad in one of them mud holes and they would just sink.

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey David, you make some good points but I'm sure you will be really happy with your machine. You'll have to give me a call again and tell me how your first ride went. The Bigfoot might be built a little heavier but all 6x6s are very low tech. Neither machine is going to break down so I don't see where all that extra 'heavy duty' stuff is needed. They need more advanced components rather than just more square metal welded together. It is hard to say which will do more, a 6x6 or a 4x4. It just depends on what you want. The big advantage a 4x4 has is their powerful high tech engines. If a 6x6 had an engine like these have, they could do more also. My Scrambler has faster wheel spin than I ever could have expected. Most of the time, half throttle is more than enough. Push it all the way and it's almost scary.
Loose terrain is where the wheel spin comes in handy. Hills that are covered in mud, snow, or sand can only be conquered by high speed. I have yet to find a hill like this that my Scrambler will not go up. It spins so fast that it finds traction even when it seems there is none.
For the question about deep snow - With tracks, a 6x6 will go in deeper snow. Tires on both machines and the 4x4 will go deeper. Both machines can be 'worked' to push their limit when it gets deep. Which is more fun in snow? Depends what you want to do. I've had fun in my Max and I've had a blast on my 4x4. Speed does add fun and excitement, contrary to previous beliefs!
I had an unforgetable three years with my Max. All the rides and all the new friends was just awesome. I've moved on to riding a 4x4 for a while but will probably be back riding a 6x6 again sometime. Troy, that will probably be when your rides get big and popular again. haha.

MaxRules

By Mudbug- David Sanders on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Yes,,I will have to agree with you on the deep water stuff, but,,its the not so hard stuff, that I saw on John Shwabs Badlands video, where the Max and Argo,s got high centered on. A short time afterwards,,a man on 4x4 ATV went up an even steeper slope,,that the 6x6 and 8x8,s would not even attempt to try to climb,,and he went right up!

Yes, the 6x6 and 8x8 will out pull and out drag any 4x4 ,,no matter how big it is, but, besides extreemly deep water and bottomless mud,,a 4x4 ATV with a big motor, 16 inches of ground clearance ( lift kit ),28 inch tires,independant suspension,with a snorkle on the exhaust and intake, will out perform a 6x6 or 8x8 in any other situation. I saw this for myself on Johns video.

The 4x4 ATV rider put all the 6x6 and 8x8,s to shame, by how easy it was for him to climb a small muddy hill and also steeper, they could not.

Each has its own benefits and merits,,but,,,from what I have watched so far, on Johns video,s,, a good 4x4 with the higher ground clearance and independant suspension, is better over all, in the woods and on extremly tight technical trail conditions, where higher ground clearance and skill is needed, along with momentum.

Any 6x6, and for sure any 8x8, will not even come close to going down most of the tightly cut "switch back" trails we have in Louisiana that have been cut by 4x4,s. Besides all of this,,,they beat the poor driver to death ,,with out any suspension ,,ha-ha.

From what I have observed, from looking over the new Max IV just recently purchased,,,"not much" has changed since they first came out 20 years ago. They are still an out dated stone age design,that begs for better engineering !

I still have not seen an Argo up close and in person,,but, from all the video,s I have watched so far,,they are more pleasing to look at,,and the build quality is better inside and out. They are built better and much better thought out. If you have the right tires ( Vampires ) and a higher HP motor in an Argo,,,it is the better Amphib hands down!!

I saw Matt prove this on Johns video with his blue big foot. If I had watched Johns Badlands video,and seen Matts big foot in action,,before I bought my Max IV,,,I would never have bought it!

The all wheel drive, is "ALL" it has going for it ,,nothing else on it even compares with an Argo! I now own a new one, and it is an outdated antiquated peice of machinery,,not even worth half the price I payed for it !

By Mudbug-David Sanders on Unrecorded Date: Edit

(David Keeso,,Argomag ) No,,I would I doubt that any 4x4 ATV will be of any use in deep snow,,but,on the very tight trails that I am used to riding on, here in Louisiana,,,,a 6x6 and 8x8 will not even come close to follow me and even keeping up.

Even is a 6x6 or 8x8 could keep up,it would beat you to death doing it. I can now speak from both sides of the fence ,since I now own a 6x6 Amphib.

From what I have seen so far,,on the three video,s
I recently bought from John Shwab,,,a 6x6 or 8x8 is not much good for the trail riding I like to do around here, with my friends on their 4x4,s. You really need a wide open swamp,,open body of water,,ditch,,or muddy dirt road to have much fun on an Amphib. They are not much use for the recreational riding we do in Lousiana. They are too slow,,high center too easy,,and with out any suspension,,they beat you body too much!

By Mug-David Sanders on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Midwest ATV ) if you really think your Max IV can follow us up and down the extremly tight trails and tight rocky switch backs we have here in Lousiana,,,and also, the trails that we have made, that cross over logs waist high,,,and then the trail turns at a sharp right angle,,that have been cut by 4x4,s,,and not high center and be able to sqeeze through the trails that most 4x4 ATV,s can barely make it though,,come on down ,,and show us how your 6x6 is so superior,,,I would be most impressed and so would my friends as well !!

By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David Sanders, I guess you failed to read all of the messages on the board about test driving all of the machines before you buy one. Before I spend any money at all, I do alot of research on what I am buying. As for you being disappointed in the build quality, you should have looked before you leaped. This argument between 4x4 and 6x6 will go on forever. To each his own when it comes to having fun. I've wanted a 6x6 for over 20 years and I finally bought a basket case Attex about 2 years ago. It is still the funnest thing I have ever driven in my life !

By Mug-David Sanders on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Lifod ) Yes,,,,I will agree with what you posted
about test riding an AATV before buying one. I wish I could have done this,,but,,I did not have any dealers around here close to where I live at to test ride one,,or look at one before I made my purchase of my Max IV (I thought ). I did though, read this forum board for about a year ,,to try to find out which one is better,,this is why I went with the Max IV 25 HP. I have recently found a used car dealership, that is about 25 miles away,,that sells Max,s. I have also located one of the largest volume Argo dealerships in the US ( he says? ) about 5 hours away from where I live.I plan to go look at the Argo Big foot soon. I am seriously thinking about selling my Max IV and then buying the Argo Big foot. I just dont like the build quality of the Max IV I have. But,,this is my opinion.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David Sanders, What is it about the "build quality" of your max IV 900T that you are so upset about? How many hours do you have on your machine and what year is it? I have sold six of the 900T and have had one warranty claim in two years. I can't imagine what you are talking about!

I guarantee you that if you will learn how to drive the 900T (stay off the gas and learn how to drive with your tires on the highest points) there is no other skid steer machine in existence that will out perform your max IV 900T - probably no machine made by man. Don't forget that the Argo bigfoot has about the same tire contact area as the Max with the 26" tire, but weighs about 300 pounds more.

By mr. tinker on Unrecorded Date: Edit

just want to point out a few things. first you ride on a 4x4.you ride in a 6x6.your 4x4 is only made for one person by the manufacture's recommendations.your max IV will hold at least four people and take them where 4x4 will only take one person.you will have to drive four times the distance to accomplish the same thing.that means your 4x4 will have to be four times as fast.you will get get your feet wet in water with 4x4. feet remain dry in 6x6.6x6 can be made to stay dry in all kinds of weather. 4x4 needs good rainsuit.yes there are many pluses to 4x4 that you already know but you should think about some the things your maxIV can do for you or any amphib for that matter.like all toys it must be played with before throwing it in the bottom of toybox.

By Red Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Mr. Sanders, Before you purchase anything else, go to any search engine and look up "Marsh Master Amphibious"....I know this is the 4x4 vers 6x6 page, but just wait til you see the Marsh Master!
This thing has a 32" ground clearance and REALLY can go thru some of the worst swamp conditions you've ever seen! Hardly anything can stop it...Red Wolf

By Don Kinyon (Oldnatva) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I think we're comparing apples to oranges here for the most part. Saying that the quad is a superior machine than a 6x6 because your trails are narrow doesn't hold water. I can go through the woods and cut a 24 inch road and make the same arguement that my dirt bike is a better machine because a quad won't make it through my trail. I've ridden quads and they can be a lot of fun, but I always feel that I'm on a motorcycle that just won't lean.

Speed indeed does add to the fun, as anyone that remembers the Attex (and even the Bigmax) machines from the 70s and early 80s can attest to. If the greens had left the two-stroke industry alone, there would be a lot faster, more fun machines out there. And by the way, the same people that shut down the big two-strokes in AATVs are working on the snowmobile industry now, but they'll soon turn their attentions to the four wheelers.

Please tell us what the problems are with the quality of the Max. The machines I know are fairly simple, but well-made and solid.

Don

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Continuing to the ARGO vs. Max debate, I have to put my 2 cents in. I have driven a few 4 wheelers in my day, (17 years) and I have always had an argo. The 4 wheelers are a lot of fun on trails where speeds adds to the excitement. ON the same note, their are some trails at my cottage where the argo is a much more fun way to travel. Getting stuck is half the fun when driving them. Remember, they are also work vehicles. ARGO and max have cargo areas, 4 wheelers only have a rack and then you need a trailor. I move loads of firewood up in the back of my argo in the winter and into the garage. A 4 wheeler couldn't even pull a trailor with wood in a foot of snow without tracks.

By David Sanders Mudbug on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I want to say "Thank you" to all that have taken the time to respond to my many frustrations of the Max IV I recently purchased from Receatives.

I have owned 4 ATV,s in the last several years,,most recently a 1999 Yamaha Big Bear ( two wheel drive ) and then a 2000 Yamaha Kodiak, that I bought for my Step father ( also two wheel drive )

What I was referring to ,,in my frustrated posts about "Build Quality",, is this:

Comparing the Max IV , that I purphased from Recreatives,( on sale in July ) with the 4-wheelers I have now,,and also the new ones I have looked at most recently,,,( very high build quality,,and well thought out )the build quality on my new Max IV looks so simple and to me,,is cheaply made,, and could have been engineered so much better,,to a much higher degree,,,had a company like Honda designed it. This where the Argo I "believe now", has the MAx beat!

I am also very frustrated that I have payed so much, for machine that has build quality that is far inferior to any 4-wheeler of equal price.

By David Sanders Mudbug on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Sad to say, to all here,, I have not even rode my Max IV yet! I have just recently received my Trailer, that I had a friend build for me ( at a very good price ), to haul my Max IV on,,and now it is at my friends shop: having built:

brush guards made for the front and rear,Bumpers made for the front and rear,,26 inch "Vampire" tires,,trolling motor mount on the rear bumper,,Spot lights on the rear and front, and front sides as well( these can be turned off and on by toggle swithes ),a larger auxillary battery in case the winches pull the stock battery down,( a switch to change from one battery to another. winch mounts and winches for the front and rear ( 2,500 lb Ramsey winch in the front,,2000 lb Super winch in the rear )this is in case there are no trees in the front me ,,ha-ha )

Also, a grapling hook to swing out,in case there are no trees in the front or rear! I used to be a boy scout,,can you tell???

A custom made suspended bench seat for the driver
( this is a must have! )

I dont like to go fast, but,,I do like very technical and challenging terrain. This is the main reason I bought the Max IV with the 25 HP motor.
# 1: it has 26 tires and more ground clearance ?
# 2: faster water speed with the taller tires
# 3: because of the "all wheel drive" system that the Argo do not have.

I have watched the "Badlands" video, that John Shwab made ,about 9 times now,,because I liked all of the extreme muddy action I saw in it.
But,,from looking at the outside,,and also, on the inside as well( on the video,s )the Argo looks so "superior" in the way it is built both inside and out. It has a thicker body ( I have read ),,heavier frame ( I assume ? ) much more accessories that are made for it ( a big plus ) different gear ratios for the transmission.

By David Sanders Mudbug on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I read and re-read,,all of the pros and cons about the Argo verses the Max,, for almost a year now,,before ever deciding to buy a new Max IV 25 HP.
Though I have not seen an Argo Big Foot in person,,,,this is the only other one I would have purchased, if I had not bought the Max IV 900T.
I made the descision to buy the Max IV 900T,,from e-mailing several people here on the 6x6 forum board,,and lots of long distance phone calls as well.
Fred Sowerwine was very convincing over time, as he explained about the superior drive system of the Max verses the Argo. Also,,from the many postings here,,by people on the forum board, that have agreed about this as well.

But,,from all of the pictures I have seen, that are posted on web, on peoples own websites of 6x6 and 8x8,s,,the Argo looks more thought out,,,and better built as well. This is what people here have stated over and over. From watching John Shwabs video,s,,,I can now see this.

Now,,since I have seen lots of Big foots in action, on the John Shwabs "Badlands" video I recently purchased,,,I can see how much better the all wheel drive system works on a Max compared to an Argo.

But,,I will have to say,,Matts blue Big foot, with the 25 inch Vampire tires on it,,and also, with the 33 HP "Bandolero" motor,,,,is the great eqaulizer!!

I am now wondering,,when I have the 26 Vampire tires installed on my Max IV,,and my 25 HP Kolier motor,will it be comparable?? This is if driver to driver is equal??

I am a very good 4-wheeler rider,,and I "plan" to be an equally good 6x6 driver as well over time.
I do worry though ,about the long term durabilty of my new Max IV,,if it is ridden hard, but,,maintained well,,if it hold up as good as an Argo,,,from what I have now seen and read?

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well David,
As soon as you get to using your Max, your opinion will change (there is a learning curve and you cannot drive a skid steer like you would most any other vehicle (power and speed will just get you really stuck - if you go into things easily, you will almost always be able to back out and find another way). Both Max and Argo are pretty much hand made with many of the parts fabricated "in the factory". When you have a small quantity, you always have higher prices. The Japanese are experts at making small things. You are probably right that if the Japanese made a skid steer it might be different, but it "ain't gonna happen". The market is too small to justify the millions it would take to tool up to make a new style skid steer. Weight of these machines is important to performance and the lighter the better - you can't have heavy duty parts and end up with a light weight machine. As long as the machine holds up under use (with maintenance), who cares if the design is simple? That is one of the pluses of the Max in my opinion - I know the owner can fix it himself if he wants to.

I hope some of those things you have added aren't permanent cause you will hang up on the brush guards and bumpers (unless the brush guards are for the people - that's the main advantage of having a roll cage). Sounds like you have added the 300 pounds that Max IV has advantage over Bigfoot so you might need those winches. Remember that you have no pull start so make sure you have it so both batteries can charge independently (I'm not sure there is enough output to do that) because with all those lights and winches, you are very apt to be using more power than your engine is generating.

Good luck with you machine and welcome to wonderful world of skid steer.

By David Sanders Mudbug on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Fred ) The metal we will be using, to attach the "light weight" bumper to,,is exactly the same thickness,,and size, as the stock metal that fastens to the base of the roll bar from Recreatives. The winches weigh only 14 pds a piece. I,m sure the things we are planning to do to my Max IV,,,will be less than 125 lbs,,if that much.

Since I dont plan on riding passengers much in my Max IV, I dont see this as being much of an issue at all.I will post later on though,,when all of these modifications are finished.

From the brief test ride I took on a Max IV recently,, I found it to be "VERY" uncomfortable
and in great need of a suspended seat!

We have several ideas now,,on how we might design a suspended seat. As far as I am concerned,,this is a "must have" on a 6x6 or 8x8 that has no suspension but the tires. I have heard that Argo has one in the works for the future models. This is not something hard to do,,if one sets their mind to it.

I,m sure though,,if I had been riding over soupy ground or water mud,,the test ride I took would have not been so jaring.

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David,
I don't think ODG has one in the making, the Argo's has the gas tank under the seat. I do know RI has been trying to get a suspension seat of some kind to work. One thing that might help out with the uncomfortable ride is lowering the air pressure on the tires. By the way, the Argo ride is harder on a person then the max. My max IV demo is the one that I also use for rides and If you have the 26" tires and the K-rims you can almost not put any air in the tires. I am a
6'1" 235# man and I have also broke my back 2 times, so I need as soft of a ride as possible. I use 1# to 1 1/2# of air in the corners and 1/2# to 1# of air in the middle tires. Use less air in the middle tires. Will help when climbing out a steep mud hole. I have never broke a bead. I even rode a weekend one time with a valve stem pulled out of a the right front wheel. No air at all in that tire and never broke a bead. Most people put 3 1/2+ #'s in the tires and that will make the Max ride very hard. I hope this helps on the ride. Like Fred said, it will take some time to learn how to use the Max the best it can be used. If you can, go ride with others that have 6x6's and you will learn more that way then on your own. I have learn more riding with others during my rides then I would of ever learn on my own. I am sure after you ride it for a while and learn the in's and out's, you will like the Max. Maybe if I can get a weekend free in the near future, I will try to hook up with you and go down there and we can ride for the weekend. I might even be able to get a couple of more guys together. If we can get together, I will help you out on how to ride Max in different terrain. Not trying to put you down, but there is a learning curve on these skid steer atv's and I still learn everytime I go out myself. Good luck and post some pictures after you get all the stuff on your Max.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David, check your tire air pressure (they come from the factory over inflated). Run at 3 PSI for four to six hours to set the beads real well, then drop to 1 1/2 or 2 PSI (maybe even 1 PSI) unless hauling heavy loads. Makes a big difference. Yes, a suspension seat would be a nice addition. I have toyed with the idea of putting one on shock absorbers. I have made an air pillow out of an innertube. I have just enough air in it to give me about a 3/4 inch cushion.

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David,
odg had a prototype conquest 6 wheel bigfoot with a 27 hp. kawasaki at humphrey with two bucket suspension seats. I did not ride it but did push down on the seats, and it definatly would smooth the ride out.
Fred, Hate to burst your bubble, but RI does NOT make any of their parts at the factory, they are all made by other companies for RI, The RI factory is just an assembly plant, not that that is a bad thing but a max dealer ought to no that.
dave you did buy an ausome machine and you should worry about quality, max make big strides in quality in 2000. with the vampire tires you will have good perfomance, better than most but they weigh 32 lbs. a piece and they are going to work that 25 kohler real good, and you probably will kill bearings quicker. If you get thoughs vampires jammed in some tree roots in a mud hole, do not smoke your tranny bands. I would stick with the 26 in. dycos myself, light and very effective, and their isn't a faster machine in the water than a max 1V with them. if you switch to the vampires, the added weight will be like carrying the weight of a passenger all the time. dycos are a better tire than a rawhide in the mud and water, i would put the 700 bucks into somthing else.
Troy, I drove your !V in deepwater, and my bigfoot road like a cadillac compared to the max. I only had 3 lbs. of tire pressure, but you dont sit over the front axles in a bigfoot. I did like how fast you could go in reverse though, matt seemed to really enjoy that. by the way, argos are simple machines just like a max, just as simple. the only thing "complicated" if you want to call it that is the liquid cooled models, and they are still simple. I would not want a liquid cooled to ride in regularly, but for plowing snow and just strolling around with my kids, a conquest with a heater kit is worth its weight in gold....

By matt435 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Troy, yes argo has a seat in the works. It was at the humphry ride this year. Matt

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks Matt for letting me know. I haven't heard anything about ODG trying to make a suspended seat for the Argo. It would be nice if both ODG and RI would come up with a suspended seat.

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

geru, after owning my bigfoot for 2 years,ODG finally sent me first news letter,ENCOUNTER.and they did a little article on 6x6 conquest.from the pictures,you can definatly see some significant changes.it now sports the 20 hp kaw.liquid cooled engine.they also extended the wheel base to " increase stability and ride comfort". the down side is they only have 25 in.rawhides. i prefer the 26's ihave on my bf.
mike

By David Sanders Mudbug on Unrecorded Date: Edit

(Fred ) By the way,,the Max IV I bought in July,
was from Recreatives ,this was when they had the sale going on. It is a 2002 Model. I,m also sure,,like you have said, that the 26 inch tires I had them put on it,,are over inflated as well.

The recent test ride I took on a dealers Max IV,,was very rough,,probably because it still had the very same air pressure that came in the tires from the factory. He is a used car dealer, that sells Max,s as a side line,,so I doubt that he would know a lot about how to get the most out of Max, like a "real" Max dealer would, such as You and Bud.

I will take your advice and do what you said, about the air pressure,and how to seat the beads on my rims.

By David Sanders Mudbug on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Bud ) will take your advice also,, and lower the air pressure in the middle tires. This makes a lot of sense,,when trying to climb out of a mud hole,when your amphibs belly pan,,in the middle,,is dragging and scraping,,and trying to climb over the top of a steep muddy bank.

Since I have now watched John Shwabs Badlands video over 10 times ( ha-ha )it does concern me though,, about lowering the air pressure of the tires, down to almost nothing,,after seeing how easily these 6x6,s high center on the belly pan.

I may get a more comfortable ride,,but, I will loose much needed ground clearance, in the process of doing this.

I now have decided, with out a doubt,,that I will make a suspended seat. For me, this is a must have. Lowering the air pressure of the tires, will surely make a difference,but,,not like a suspended seat will. I now plan to do both !

I have thought of several ways this can be done,,
and, it is not at all complicated, if you are some what handy.

By David Sanders Mudbug on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Argogeru) I know what you mean about the Vampires tearing parts up,,this happened to the front CV joint, and also, the rear one as well,,on my Polaris 500 sportman that had independant suspension.


But,both of these things happened, on different occasions. I really like the aggressive lugs that come on the Vampire tires, because they dig really well, when coming up a steep muddy bank,
but,,the downside is like you said. If you are unlucky enough ,to get one of your Vampire tires stuck in a rut,that also has some tree roots in it, the Vampires tires will grab so well,,that often times, they will not let the wheel slip enough, like a stock tire would,,and then you end up tearing parts up.

I did not even consider, that I would have any of this to worry about,,since my Max does not have CV joints to rip out. It never occured to me about the strain they would cause to the bands in my T-20.

I was really impressed though,,with the ease in which Matt could go through the very muddy sections,,that other big foot owners could not,all because of the traction his Vampires afforded him.

I know that also,that he has a 33 HP bandolero motor in his Big foot,,but,,I believe without the Vampire tires,it would not have helped him get out of the muddy sections he did.

If he was still using the stock big foot tires,,along with his 33 Hp motor,that he has now,,he would have been just a stuck.
Maybe,,a little sooner, because of all the wheel spin, of the 33 HP motor. But,,I am only guessing,
so what do I know,,ha-ha.

Does the Argo have a transmission, that does no require bands, like the T-20,,and this is why Matt can drive so agressively, and not tear up his transmission bands?

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Slipping tranny bands is like Honda owners talking about slipping belts on a Polaris. When your sticks are pushed forward there is no way those bands are going to slip. Don't let 'em fool you in to how superior and tough the Argo tranny is.

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

dave,
argo trannys are all metal gears, the only thing that could slip is the belt, their are no bands inside. properly maintaining your t-20, you shouldn't have to many problems, the factory is using a much better band now. only hours on the machine with the vampires will tell.
as far as bottoming out on the belly of your machine, in time you will learn how to avoid that by staying out of ruts left by other machines and keeping the tires high centered instead of the underbody. Once you have alot of time on your machine it will amaze you of what it can do compared to a quad.

By David Sanders Mudbug on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Don Kinyon ) These are the quality issues I was referring to"

Compare the price, of the top of the line 4x4,,,to the price I payed for my 2002 Max IV,,and even though they are much less in price,,the quality and workmanship is 100% better over all. The fit and finish is better,and the durability is better also.

If you compare my 2002 Max IV,to the new 4x4 Honda "Ricon" 650, which is thousands of dollars cheaper,but, is built with better grade materials and has fully independant suspension,all hydrostatic drive, (which is state of the art,,and with Honda quality )it is faster and "much" more comfortable,,and requires almost "zero" maintenance. It has a drive shaft with no chains to ever adjust. Even the Argo has automatic chain adjusters!

Now, compare it with the "LOW" tech, and "much" cheaper quality materials, that my Max IV is made of,,and you can maybe understand what I have to complain about. I have never payed "so much" for so "little quality" for any vehicle I have ever purchased,,until I bought this Max!

I was influenced by people like Fred and Bud and Brandon to buy the Max IV. Plus,it was on sale at a "very good" price. I know their intentions were honorable,,but,,I think I would be happier with an Argo Big Foot, from all that I have seen and read now, concerning it.

My Max IV may have faster water speed with its 26 inch tires,,and go through the mud faster and more easily than a Big foot, with its 25 inch tires, but,,with a capable driver aboard, ( like Matt ),a Big foot will go every where a Max will,I have seen this on John Shwabs Badland Video.

From all of the pictures I have seen so far, about the Argo Big Foot,,and all of the video,s I have watched as well,,that show the inside and outside of an Argo Big foot,,I can see that it is made better and made heavier. The body is thicker,,and the subframe is heavier, I have also read. The front winch mount is attached to the frame. It also has a real out board motor mount in the rear. It has lots of optional guages you can order.

It has a lot more options available for it, that my Max IV does not. To me,,it has a better looking body,,and a more durable body as well.

The body of an Argo Big foot, will take a lot more abuse,and the machine over all,,,requires a lot less maintenance as well.

I would compare my Max IV to a pine desk, and the Argo Big foot to an oak desk. You can pass both of these desk down to your grandkids,,but, the pine desk will require much more tender loving care,,than the oak desk will. This is because the oak desk is made out of sturdier material,,and will be more durable in the long run over time.

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

brandon,
Hate to burst your bubble, but if you watch some videos from humphrey, bands slipping on maxs' are very apparent. a new max 1v pulling out a rollover in ramonas hole, matt in his max coming out of the mud pit, etc. etc. t-20s are a good concept, but cannot handle pulling much weight or hauling much weight, they are a good trail machine for 1 or 2 people, bands slip so get over it, watch the videos. I drove matts max 11 at humphrey this summer and it was a blast, but on 3 or 4 occations the bands slipped, and he has one of the best maintained machines period.
Are you going to buy another machine or what? obvously you are still interested. I bet you are just waiting for matt to put his bandelero on the classifieds. we saw the glee in your eye when you drove it at atticca.

By David Sanders Mudbug on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( argogeru ) I have watched Matts Blue Bandolero Big Foot go through places the other amphibs could not,,but,when watching the Attica video,,it was mainly Big foots in all of the hard muddy sections,,and not any Max IV,s. Very little video footage of them was taken. I guess you guys in your Big foots, just wanted to ride a lot harder than the Max IV driver did? I would sure love to try out Matts Big foot myself,,it sure looks impressive by how is diggs through the mud.

By John Martin on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I've never had the problem of bands slipping on a t-20 transmission. The Max like the Argo uses a drive belt from the engine to the tranny. I have had that belt slip because it had gotten wet. If you think the bands could be slipping I would make sure it is not just a wet belt slipping. The T-20 is an excellent transmission that has held up great in our Maxes with no problems, wether pushing, pulling, climbing, towing or whatever. Most important points are to make sure you have transmission fully engaged in gear and keep both laterals forward for true 6 wheel drive, you can even do this using one hand.

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Bands only slip when the levers are not pushed forward. The springs that hold the levers is not enough to keep them from slipping. Give the levers a bit of a push and they will never slip.
David I have talked to you many times on the phone. We need to get one thing strait. You have not even rode your machine for a full hour yet! Here you go talking about maintenance and durability and that new Max smell is still on your machine. I can tell you from experience, it will take you three years of hard running to see how it holds up. Argo is a heavier machine, but neither holds up better than the other. Weight is a disadvantage when the going gets tough. All that useless crap you add to your Max will make it high center. One winch and a roll cage is the most you need.
You are worried about getting showed up by those quads. You are gonna get showed up. You don't have an hour on your machine and no experience with it. The person driving determines how far a machine can go.
Argogeru, I would already have a new machine if I had someone to ride with. For the last year I owned my Max, it sat in the garage months on end. My 4x4 is a little more fun to ride around the house so it sees slightly more use. There is simply not enough people to ride with to bother with another Max. Maybe someday (hopefully soon) that will change.

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Brandon,
Move to the indiana michigan border and you will get all the riding you can handle....
John,
the belts were not wet in the examples i gave above, the bands were slipping.... with the levers fully engaged.
David,
brandon is right,(whooo!!!), you need to get some hours on your max, and the quads will show you up on alot of things untill you learn to drive it. If your machine is a true 2002, you have a good machine, give it a chance. You cannot jugde your machine to matts bandelero, because the bandalero is in a class of its own, on top of the 6x6 world, right besides the orange crush.

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Dave,
The Badlands ride is always mostly all Argos, very few Maxes. I was the only one with a Max IV that weekend and I had my son with me. There was so many people there we broke off into 3 groups. I didn't get to ride with John until the night ride and the Sunday ride. So I wasn't in most of the tape. My dad drives a Max II and he will not do everything only because it is our demo, the Max IV I drive is also a demo. We try to take care of them because we need them to look as close to new as possible for our Customers. Anyway, you keep saying that no one can go where Matt can go. I have rode with him a couple of times and I go anyplace he has gone, except for one hole where you dropped about 3 1/2' straight down. My son didn't want me to do it so I didn't. On that tape from the badlands, there is a hole that my dad got through with the Max II and Matt couldn't make it. John also tried with his Max II but didn't have enough power. He only has a 14 hp in it. The biggest thing with these is seat experience. Only time I get to ride is at my rides or demo rides. I have less then 200 hours under my belt in over 5 years of being a dealer. My dad has less then 75 hours. Matt and Argogeru I bet has over 500 or 1000 hours of riding time. Until you ride it a lot, you will never know what it can do. Don't take this the wrong way, but until you ride yours and get use to it or go out on a ride with both Max and Argo, you will never know what each can do. When you do, you will that neither one is better then the other one hands down. Both are better then the other at different things and some of the time it is driver, not machine.

Argogeru, I think what you might be hearing is the belt slipping. I will say that I think the belts come from the factory with to much slack it them. More slack then the belts on the Argo's. If you have the sticks forward, the bands on the T-20 will not slip. I have seen a lot of people including my dad and myself sometimes that will not have the sticks all the way forward and not know it and then yes the bands might slip only because you are making them. It is not the Transmission, its the driver by pulling back on the sticks and not knowing it.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

argogeru, I know most parts are made for RI by jobbers, but they are still pretty much "handmade" "in factory". The premise being that small runs of parts cost more. Also true is that when people do the work, sometimes they goof. A weld doesn't get completed, annealing isn't done slow enough, a snap isn't in the right place, a seam doesn't get sewed quite strong enough, a bolt gets sheared off and the worker doesn't realize (or decides to just go on), bolts don't get tightened uniformly tight. Custom made products are not perfect.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David Sanders, I am confused. Why are you comparing the Honda Rincon to the Max IV 900T? You should compare it to a Max II 600T (maybe the 800T or new 850T). That is like comparing a Ford F350 to a little Toyota. Yes, the Toyota is better built, but the Ford works real well, too. I'd like to see you haul 3 1/2 ton on any compact Toyota. And even though the Toyota is better built (in your words), it will be in the junk yard long before the Ford F350. Those little Japanese vehicles just wear out all together and you throw them away. How many 30 plus year old quads do you see around? How long is the engine going to last on a quad if you go in the water often? If it lasts five years you will be lucky. Skid steers might appear lacking in engineering, but they do the job that no other machine can do and keep on running. (If an owner "rides hard and puts away wet" (I used to be a horseman) and tears up his machine; a few new parts and attention to adjustments makes that beat up machine as good as new). What you think is "build quality" is really sales fluff. Let that new quad roll down a hill once or twice and then lets talk "build quality". And if you bought during the July sale, you could have bought a Max II for thousands less than the Rincon.

And when people are comparing stock skid steers, you need to compare the Big foot to the Max II, not the Max IV. IMO, the only advantage the bigfoot has is the bigger tire, but that seldom makes any difference, because it is PSI on the ground that is important and Max II with 22" tires and a light driver is only bested by a stripped down Max IV with 26" tires and a light driver.

By David Sanders Mudbug on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Midwest ATV ) I would like to come to the next ride you guys are putting on,,but,,I need a lot of advance notice, so I can plan when to get time off from work,,at the General Motors assembly plant I work at.

There are some "really" good places to ride where I live in Louisiana,,because my state has lots of bayous and swamps,,and low land. This is Amphib country where I live.

I have heard about a "merango" swamp run( I might be wrong in the spelling ) about 190 miles from where I live. An ATV club puts this ride on once a year. This land is owned by the state,,and is posted at all other time through out the year.
This is event goes through the middle of a swamp,
and is supposed to be about 26 miles long I think.

The used car dealer about 25 miles from me ( that also sells Max,s ),,took three of his Max,s to the last years event and had a blast. I have been "scouting out" a lot of places to ride my Max IV, when I get it back, after my friend is through with the modifications I want to done to it.

I dont plan to ride any where until I get my winches installed front and rear. Most of the time
I,m sure I will be riding by myself,,and since I now have a true "all terrain" vehicle,,I plan on going places I never could with my 4-wheeler.

I know it is going to take a lot of time behind the sticks, to become proficient with my Max IV,
and but,,this is what I plan to do!

By EJ on Unrecorded Date: Edit

If everyone wants more power in their 6-wheelers, why doesn't Arogo or Max come out with something? After I drove my buddies MaxII with the 18hp, I fell in love with 6wheelers, and found myself an old Attex. My Attex has a 16hp Tecumseh, and I must admit, I'm always trying to get more power and speed. But trying to compare 4wheelers with 6wheelers is apples and oranges. I have yet to feel the excitement from a quad as compared to ripping it up in my Attex. Lets face it, driving into a body of water is an unatural act, and evertime I do it I can't wipe the smile of my face. And the best part is, when I am flying through the mud into the water, I can look next to me and smile at my passenger. Look at the pictures from Humphry, everyone has that "big grin". And of course lets not forget that the 6wheeler (especially an old Attex) is a pretty easy fix as compared to the quads.

By John Schwab (Johnschwab) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David- You could have had all of your questions answered in one weekend if you had taken the advice that I gave you in one of our phone conversations. You could have used half of the money that you are going to spend on those Vampires and flown up to the Humphrey Jamboree. In addition to seeing about every machine ever produced, you could have experienced what 6x6 will do with a very capable driver at the sticks. I am still a beginner in a 6x6 but have had 4x4s for decades and I love them both. I could make a whole video of the four best riders that I know and they were all there at the same time. Tim Shotanus does amazing things in his Max 1V with a modified engine and STOCK tires. Jim Cheney can handle any situation in his stock Vangard without knocking the ash off his cigarette. Argogeru makes most trail obstacles look easy in his Bigfoot and 8x8, and Len from RI easily climbs logs, rocks and very deep muddy ruts in his stock Max1V. These are the guys you need to spend some time with, not trying to keep up with your 4x4 buddies, because you never will.
As far as a 6x6 not being able to go through tight trails and switchbacks it simply is not true. I had set up the trail at Humphrey for quads for almost ten years before we started having 6x6 events there. We had to make very few adjustments to the trail. This year when we made the new trail to the Bear Caves there were several turns that I could not make with my Honda Foreman that I and over one hundred 6x6 and 8x8s did during the event. Why I can drive my Max11 into my two-car garage (wood floor) spin it around and drive it right back out! Next time you see your buddies Polaris with independent rear suspension and Outlaws take your tape measure and you will find it to be as wide as your Max.
The quad rider you saw on my Jamboree 2002 video was my good freind Dan on his Polaris 700. That is a situation where the extra momentum that a powerful quad can generate can get you through. However Dan only made it through because dozens of 6x6s had cleaned out the foot or two of silt that is stops all quads and most 6x6s that attempt Ramonas Mudhole.
As far as bands slipping, mine have yet to slip but then I have a low-HP machine and drive it like an old lady (sorry mom). What I do experience on occasion is that in a situation where you have high tire RPM such as crossing water and high gain traction as you climb ashore you will need to let the engine down to idle momentarily so that the clutch can shift dowm for maximum torque. Perhaps this is the slipping sensation that has been talked about. About the factory Max1V slipping while trying to extract the rollover from Ramonas Hole, if you look at the video closely you will see that tires of the towee were jammed solidy against the solid rut, it was a immovable object that nothing would have pulled.
Take some sick time from work and join us at Haspin Acres in two weeks. You will learn much and go home loving your new toy!

By matt435 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Sorry to burst your bubble Max fan's but I have been driving six wheelers for 15 plus years and have owned many t-20's and still do. The bands will slip, even the brand new ones fully engadged, if you put a hard load on them they slip. Remember I own many six whellers old and new. I give a true field test result with many hours on my Argo's,Max's,and other makes.

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

fred,
I wasn't implying poor quality in parts, I think max makes a good machine, now after 2002. bearing extenders like argo would be another great improvement. and yes, human intervention plays a role to, a hangover can kill quality control...
Troy,
when driving matts max for instance, I heard nothing, I just wouldn't move going up a steep hill out of a mud hole, with the sticks pressed all the way foward, very hard at times. and as tight as the belt is on matts max, their is no way it (the belt) could slip. johns videos show this a number of times on various videos, exspecially when pulling someone out who is really stuck bad.

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David,
My next ride will be around last week of march or first week of April at Deepwater. It would be a great place to ride and learn. I will try to have the dates set by middle of Jan.

Maybe before then I can make it down to Louisiana for a weekend to ride. When you get your max back, have fun learning and riding it.

By R&L on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The drive belt is the most neglected item on a 6x6. Whether it is loose or tight, out of alignment, glazed, or just plain worn out, guys (and girls) will keep riding. The bands in a T-20 will not slip when the tranny is properly adjusted. When you think they are, watch the clutch and drive belt. All engines in 6x6's and 8x8's have enough power to "smoke" a belt. How often do you guys (and girls) change a belt or check its condition? Even a belt that looks good can be spent. I am an avid snomobiler and I change the belt on my sled at least once a season, because it needs it. I change the belt on my Max II 800T every summer and I have never felt any slippage except when I needed to make a slight spring tension adjustment on the transmission. Even a new machine can ruin a belt within hours if the operator isn't careful. Next time you notice a lack of power or possible "slippage", make sure your tranny is operating correctly, then try a new belt. You'll be amazed at the results. A tight belt is as bad as a loose belt when it comes to a CVT. Both will cause lack of performance, but neither will cause slippage. I won't explain how a clutch system works right now, but believe me, if you're stuck in the mud and the machine won't move and you keep giving it gas, you just glazed your belt. Change it.

By John Martin on Unrecorded Date: Edit

And an Argo is not true sixwheel drive! The T-20 in my Max has not given me any problems and keeps all six of my wheels spinning without monkeying the laterals back and forth like I've seen many of the Argo drivers do. I have run out of power on some very steep hills, but all that means is that I need a bigger motor. The T-20 is the easiest transmission to get full time sixwheel drive. It would be nice to see someone spend the bucks to get that same big motor of Matt's in a Max II, you can't go around comparing the performance of a 30+ hp motor to that of a 20hp stock engine. I'm sure its nice to have the big motor and makes loads of difference in every area. Maybe one day I'll get a big motor for my machine rigged up to, I hope. As far as drivers go I have never seen anybody drive like Brandon Price or Bill Houston (from IN I think, he drives an Argo with a hopped up motor). You put either one of these guys in their machines by themselves and they will take them to the limits. It reminds me of when they climbed up out of the creek down from the water tubes at the Badlands. They went up a crazy steep hill that was right on the verge of rollover and made it. That was some of the best driving I've seen. Power plus experience (and a little no fear) in any type machine can take you above and beyond the rest of the wannabes.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Back to the argo vs. 4 wheeler debate, I think what it comes down to is the fact that everyone has seen 4 wheelers before. They are nothing new. ARGO and Max aren't that popular when compared to 4 wheelers. Everytime I have the argo out at the cottage, and I go somewhere where their are a lot of people, I get bombarded with questions about the argo. I always get asked if they are like a 4 wheeler, they are not. YOu can't compare the two of them, they are completely different vehicles. Its like comparing an airplane to a tank, it just doesn't work!!

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Jon,
What might be happening is the engine didn't have enough power to get the 6 wheels spinning. If the belt slips, you might or might not here it. I do not want to get into a pissing match with you over this, but here is what might be happening. Since I wasn't there, I can only go on my experience. The Max being true 6 wheel drive is a plus over Argo with it not being true 6 wheel drive,( I am in no way bashing the Argo), but it can also hurt the Max Since the Max is true 6 wheel drive, it puts more strain on the engine to turn 6 tires & wheels then 3 on the Argo's in real bad mud holes. Takes more power to spin 6 wheels and tires then 3. I see it most of the time with the max II that has a 14 or 16hp or the Max IV with the 16hp and 26" tires. Again, I am not calling you a liar or trying to start a fight because I know you and Matt know as much or more then I do about these machines. What you saw or experience with Matt's Max might of been not enough power or the belt? I called up Jay from RI and he thinks it might of been the belt and not the bands also.

By Red Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

(David Sanders) Installing those winches may be the best thing you've ever done! I have ridden 6x6's, 8x8's, quads, 3 wheelers, ducks, & almost all machines known to man for over 30 years...Raced moto-cross during the 80's....And my point is.....Neither Argo nor Max can move thru the mucky swamps where I live. Sure they will get thru if you are particular about where you go, but when either of the two hit the bottom, no type of tires will help! And it doesn't take too much for this to happen!!! That is why I am considering purchasing a Marsh Master. It has tracks encircling pontoons which allows for high flotation. The ground clearance is 32" and it will travel across the softest marshes with ease.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

MAT I THINK YOU MAY HAVE HAD TOO MUCH OF THAT GM LUBE IN YOUR TRANS IF YOUR BANDS SLIP,
THEY SHOULDENT SLIP,
IM SHUR YOU HAVE THE BANDS ADJUSTED RIGHT SO THE ONLY THING IT COULD BE IS THAT DAMM LUBE.
THE TRANY WAS NOT DESIGNED WITH THAT LUBE IN MIND, RATHER PEOPLE HAVE TRYED TO INPROVE ON THE T-20'S "HARSH" ENGAGEMENT TO TRY AND SMOTHE IT OUT BY DEFEATING THE SELF ENERGISIGNIG BANDS WITH THAT GM LUBE. IT'S THAT OR THEY ARE DEFECTIVE OR WORN OUT MAYBE,
ONLY MY BELT SLIPS AND THATS CAUSE I HAVENT ADJUSTED THE BELT TENTION RIGHT YET AFTER MY NEW ENGINE'S INSTAL, I HOPE I HAVENT RUINED THE CLUTCH WITH THE LOOSE BELT

By matt435 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Dave, I have not added any GM lube to the Max that John was riding at humphry this year. This Max has the best tranny out of all the t-20's I have owned.
Troy, I have a 18hp. Vangaurd in this Max
R&L The drive belt was new and ajusted correctly, the trany is the best I have seen.

P.S. It must have been the "Orange Crush" haunting John because he was in a Max and not a Argo hee hee.

By Mudbug Dave Sanders on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Red Wolf ) I went to the "Marsh Master" website and read all about it. It is a very impressive machine,,but,,if I wanted the ulimate Amphib,,I would choose the Brute AATV. If you have not yet checked this one out,,go to their website
www.bruteatv.com/

and then see what you think of it. To me,,this is the very ulimate AATV,,no doubt about it! But,,what I am interested in, for right now,,is mainly for recreation.

This is the main reason I choose the MaxIV. Who knows,, in the future,,,I might even grow to love it,,ha-ha

By Red Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

(Sanders) I see what you mean...That Brute does look pretty good. I shot them an E-mail for more info, yet I already know what the Marsh Master is capable of.....You have to wonder if those tires on the Brute can compete with Tracks in deep swamp. I did enjoy looking at all the pics on that site, and see how much better it would be on land (much faster). Let me know if you find other amphibious vehicals that compare to Marsh Master David. Later on my friend, Red Wolf

By Dave Sanders Mudbug on Unrecorded Date: Edit

(Red Wolf ) After looking at all of the pictures on the "Marsh Master website,,,I will agree with you, that for extreamely marshy conditions ( ie: everglades )
or large bodies of water filled with slimely mudd
and also, lots of under water stumps as well,,the Marsh Master would be the vehicle to have for sure.

But, to me,,for the places that I intend to ride at, it is too slow,( land speed and water speed as well)and way too large.

But,,if a person has a rescue opperation at hand,,
that requires him to drive to a swamp,,then this is the machine to have for the job.

By the way,,,what does the cheapest Marsh Master sell for?

By Dave Sanders Mudbug on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Argogeru ) I have "finally" located an Argo dealer about 20 miles from me. The local dealer called me actually,,because of a phone message I had left on their answering machine. They also have another business that sells Argo,s, that is about 5 hours from where I live. The Argo dealer close by me,,sells golf carts mainly,,and Argo,s are just a side line.

I called him originally, about looking at an Argo Bigfoot. I "finally" got to see a Big foot up close. I was "finally" impressed. I dont feel this way,,when I compare how my new Max IV is made. The salesman also let me take off the hood too,,along with front floor boards,,rear floor boards as well.I really like the pocket in the front floor board,,to trap the mud and excess water from your boots. Also,,I noticed that the front floor board did not shift under your feet like the floor board of my new Max IV.

Can we say ------> Build quality again here!!!

I will say this much,,,,the way an Argo is put together,( the degree of workmanship,,and also the use of higher grade and better grade materials as well ),,is over all, "MUCH" better than the new Max IV I recently purchased from Recreatives in July.

If an "unbiased" individual, who is interested in either a Max or an Argo,,were to compare the two machines,,very closely and very carefully,,more than likely,,he or she would choose the Argo.

It is more pleasing to the eye,,built to higher quality standards,more thought out,,and, I do believe,, "more" durable over the years,
if both machines are ridden hard,,and maintained very little.

The Argo looks like it was built in a factory, by people who wanted durability and higher standards of workmanship,,and a machine that would last over the years with minimal maintenance.

In comparrison,,my new 2002 Max IV,,,looks like it was built in some ones garage,,with a limited budget,,,did the best he could,,for the machines intented useage.


If I had known, that an Argo dealer was this close to me,,after I had test rode a Max IV 25 hp
and, carefully looked it over,,I would have bought the Big foot,,,and then installed a 33 hp motor like Matt has done to his,,along with the Vampire tires as well. I would then have the HP to spin the tires through the mudd,,and not have to worry about burning the bands in my T-20 by using the agressive Vampire tires.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Dave, Now that you have discovered the world of argo, what are you going to do? Keep the home made tub or the factory made argo?

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Matt, do you have any pics of this beefed up bigfoot of yours/ I would love to see them if you do!

My e-mail line is always opened at djhkeeso@rogers.com

By Dave Sanders Mudbug on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David Keeso (Argomag),,at present time,,my new Max IV is at a friends house,and he is doing a lot fabrication on it,,that I feel is needed to make me happy with my Max IV.

The number one thing,that I really want built on my Max , is a suspended seat. Also, a lot of other things too,,but, I have already mentioned these things before.

I doubt now,,after all of the money I am spending to make my Max IV the way I want it,,I can ever sell it. My friend is "super" handy,,and can fabricate and build just about anything. Right now
he has presented me with several options of how he would like to modify my Max IV.

I am very interested in the proto-type Big Foot,
that had a 27 HP, water cooled,Kawasaki motor, and suspended bucket seats also,,that some one had seen at Humphrey. I might just keep my Max IV, after all of the modifcations are through on it. But,,I,m sure I would buy a Big Foot, if it had a 27 HP water cooled motor,and bucket suspended seats as well. I really hope Argo makes this Big foot available in the near future.

By Red Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Sanders) If you are standing, please sit down...A new Marsh Master (the smallest one) costs $42,500. I have seen used for around $16,000 which is about the same as a new Argo???

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David Sanders: Which is cheaper, Argo Bigfoot or Max IV 600 (equiv)?

Also, I'm not sure you define "quality" the same as I.

Also again, I wish you would sell your Max, get an Argo, and stop moaning. It's getting old.

By Dave Sanders Mudbug on Unrecorded Date: Edit

(Red Wolf) I knew for sure,,that the Marsh Master would be a lot higher than a Max or an Argo,,and probably even higher than a Hydro Trax as well, but,,,$42,000,,,for the small size Marsh Master?!!!!! They darn sure better be good!!

I would hate to find out what a new Brute AATV is selling for now. I,m sure it would be as high,,or maybe even higher?

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

BUT DON, AT LEAST DAVID SANDERS BOUGHT SOME VIDEOS
HE HAS AT LEAST SEAN SOME OF THE STUFF HE WANTED TO SEE, ALONG WITH SOME HE WASENT LOOKING FOR,
POSABLY HE WISHES HE BOUGHT THEM SOONER BUT I BELEAVE IN THE LONG RUN HE WILL LIKE THE ONE HE GOT, AND PREHAPS SOME DAY HAVE ONE OF EACH, LIKE SOME OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE FOUND THERES NO WAY TO COMPAIR THEM THERE JUST DIFERENT AND SOME PEOPLE HAVE ONE TO WORK AND ONE TO PLAY,

By twicreektaz on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David Keeso (Argomag) talked about turning on the spot on a 8x8 Vs a quad 4x4. The Argo 8x8 is ten feet long, so there is no way it can turn in less than a ten feet circle. My Honda Rubicon has a turning radius of 10.8 feet Not much difference. Yes, it will bog down in the snow but a 8x8 will not go up any kind of a grade in snow.

By ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

HEY TWICREEKTAZ: if argo 8x8 will make close"skid steer" turning will be at 5 feet axis ...so that will be half space than your honda rubicon

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Twincreektaz, An 8x8 will go up a grade in snow. Trust me. I have gone up a the same steep hills that I go up in the other months with no snow. No Problem. The tracks just keep plowing through. If the tracks are off, the ARGO will still go through the snow as long as it doesn't bottom out.

As far as turning, It turns in its own length. If you turn from standstill, It is a little wider but not much. They turn very tight and I highly doubt you could turn a 4x4 as tight as my 8 wheeler.

By Argo kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Maybe the old two stroke Argos weren't that good, but a new one could beat the hell out of a rubicon. Rubijunk is more like it. I bet a new Argo conquest 8x8 could rip that 4-wheeled piece of crap a new one.

By Twincreektaz on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The Argo is a lot more maintenance prone by a mile than the Rubicon. I have rode my Rubicon over 2,500 mile in the year I have had it. I had the Argo a lot longer but never got the use out of I do the Rubicon.
You can call it Rubijunk or what ever you want to. I would bet Honda sold more Rubicons since its introduction than ODG has sold Argos in all the years.
I was a hard sell on 4X4 myself until I bought a Honda Fourtrax in 1991. Ten years later I bought the FANTASTIC RUBICON.
Here in Idaho I live at 6000 feet in elevation. We always have deep snow. I was NEVER able to climb much of a grade with the Argo. True the tracks will keep spinning. Clear to the ground, but that wont get you very far up the hill.

By David Sanders on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Twincreektaz )

I agree with you,,that the Honda "Rubicon" is one fine machine. Any one that ever rides one,,becomes
a believer! The power delivery is so smooth! I cant wait to test the new Honda "Rincon" 650 when it is available.

All the magazines rave about how smooth the power is,,and also how comfortable the independant suspension is as well. I also agree with you, about the Honda being low in maintenance.

I have owned Honda three and four wheelers in the past,,and if not abused, they are just about maintenance free. I know some 3-wheelers that are 20 yrs old,,and are still running well. But,,they have been well maintained and "not" ridden like an amphib!!

All the talk about not being able to drive through eight foot of snow,,or travel across large bodies of deep water,,is simply ridiculous!
With a 4-wheeler,,why would you want to!! It is out of its element!!

Even with an Amphib,you have certain limitations. You cant ride fast with out jaring yourself badly. This soon becomes just too umcomfortable!!

You cant climb extremely tall sand hills with out fast momentum and paddle tires. You cant climb an extremely steep hill,,that is strewn with rocks, deep ruts,,roots, and large holes,,that takes extreme rider skill and "lots" of tire spin to gain momentum,,and also suspension to keep traction, to climb such a hill.

An amphib can not fit through the tight sections of trees you have there,,or, that I have here in Louisiana either. In these examples,,an Amphib is just out of its element! For the examples stated on this forum board,,Yes,,any Argo or Max would excell supreme!

But,,as I have pointed out,, " if " the tables are turned, and, the Amphib " is " in its element,,,it will then be the machine to have.

People that post here are " Pro " Amphib,and dont have any use for a 4-wheeler ( even as good as yours is )only John Scwab being the exception!

So the bottom line is this: there are some things a 4-wheeler can do better and excell at,,but,,the same can be said of an Argo or Max, " if " it is in its own element!!

I own both,,and enjoy both!! But,neither one is better than the other,,it just depends on what I am using it for.

By Jim Stiver (Viper56) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David,

Well put!! I am a MAX dealer here in western PA and I also own a Polaris quad. I agree with you that there is an element for each machine. What we need more of, is everyone (AATV & ATV) owners alike, to pull together and promote the sport and encourage more legistration for the betterment of the sport. It seems like there is more time and effort exerted in bashing each other than is spent in furthering our sport. Lets put an end to 4x4 vs. 6x6 and MAX vs.ARGO and work towards a common goal.

Jim Stiver

By David Sanders on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Jim Stiver )

I totally agree with you! All this constant back and forth negativity, about which Amphib is better
Max or Argo,,is doing none of us any good.

I have come to this conclusion: each manufactor ( Argo and Max ) falls short in one area or another,,but,,neither one excells over all, when compared to the other.

Where one Amphib is better in one area,,the same can be said for the other brand of Amphib, in a different area.

I have met a few people so far,where I live,that used to own an Aphib years ago,,but,,not now.

I believe this: that if we, as Amphib riders,,promote our mahines in the proper light,,some 4-wheeler riders and "their families" will be won over to our side.

By dave_p on Unrecorded Date: Edit

How can you use any 4x4 ATV or AATV in the environment they were meant to be used and not do "any" maintenance? I go over every vehicle I own after hard use and clean and relube the chains and "Mud Accumulation Points". Get it dirty, then clean it back up and get ready for the next trip.

By David Sanders on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Dave_P )

" How can you use any 4x4 or AATV in the environment they were meant to be used,and not do "any maintenance"?

My point exactly! Every off road vehicle that I have ever owned,,I have always did exactly what you have done, before I got ready to ride them again. If you dont, you are just waiting for some thing to happen, at a time you least expect it to.

Some people wait for things to happen,and then they fix it,but others, they look over their off road machines very carefully,,and fix anything that looks like it needs fixing. Evidently,
you and I are just alike.

By garyb on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a maxII and a polaris sportsman 500 and had a friend high center the max in a rice field that was pretty muddy over the weekend while duck hunting. I was glad to have the 4 wheeler to pull it out, but still would rather drive the max as far as having fun goes.

By newmax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I found a 4 wheeler site with a discussion board like this one. you wouldn't believe what they say about each other. there is alot of talk about how they breakdown all the time. there were plenty of people complaining about how much money they had to put in them after 1 year of use. it did seem that the hondas were more dependable than the others. also the fact that most people couldn't work on them and had to pay the dealer to fix them. big bucks. I don't think they perform nearly as well as some people on here say they do.

By David Sanders on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( newmax )

I have rode 4-wheelers for years,and they are as dependable as you make them. This also holds true for Amphibs as well. I could do some amazing things with my Polaris 500 when I had it,all because of its torquey motor and high ground clearance.

Yes,,it did take a lot more maintenence than the Yamaha,s that I now own,,but,,the 4 wheel,cushy independant suspension,sure made up for this!

On a regular basis,,in Louisiana,,I would rather ride my 4-wheelers. The trails are just too tight here,,to fit my 2002 Max IV through.

The trails are left ,right,,right ,left,,up and down hills,,with countless switch backs. On some trails, you have to cross logs waist high.

This is where my an Amphib, is just out of its element! Both the Ampib and 4-Wheeler have their place,,but,, most of the time, not in the same place at the same time!

By 107 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I would like to my four wheller every day all day long

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

107- don't waste peoples time reading about nothing- a grammar lesson wouldn't hurt you either!

By fred sain on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey! Jim Stiver, I am a Argo Dealer, I would like to second your post about the bashing. Both machines have loyal owners, and dealer,s, where would we be without them? Do not listen to anyone when you are ready to buy. Test drive both machines, jerk the pans out, and have a look, this should help any buyer make a correct choice for his or her needs. Of course if you do it this way you will not have anyone but yourself to blame, if you are not happy.

By Pothole on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Argomag, those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Look at your post. The word Peoples, in the context you used it indicates possession and therefore it should have been spelled people's, not peoples. Furthermore, it seems like some of your past posts have given mechanical advice but you take your dad's machine to a dealer to have it worked on. Why waste my time listening to you when your not a mechanic. Get the idea?

Why are you bashing 107? He is entitled to his two cents too. You know what? You talk like your the only one who has a cottage. Big hairy deal. The cottage! I've got one too and I don't brag or boast.

Here's a great idea. Let's stop bashing Argos and Max machines and lets start bashing each other on this board.

I HOPE NOT!!!!

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

pothole

First one- typing mistake. Im typing quickly and don't really care how it reads. I don't have the equipment, or even the proper tools to do most the repairs on the ARGO, nor do I have a garage big enough to work on it. Can barely even get to the ARGO with all the crap piled in there. I have someone that can do it cheep, close by and is a friend, and the cottage thing, its just how I describe things. I have a habit of adding un-necessary things into what I write and because I don't really read it over, it gets skipped.

By jack Ouellette on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Where are the hopped up motors for the Argo and Max sold through? Is it possible to hop up an existing motor in say an argo 16hp model or an 18 hp bigfoot?

Will it perform like a 25 hp /26" tire Max 4 or a max with 18hp motor?

Thansk,

Jack