By madramj on Unrecorded Date: Edit

any info on landtamer,good or bad. thanks

By Rick Cushman (Rick) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Save your money, I had one.
Rick

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Rick -

I took a good look at the Landtamer, and thought the design had some good ideas. I also thought the price was way to high. Could you unpack your "save your money" comment & tell us about your experiences?

By Rick Cushman (Rick) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Doug,
The machine I purchased was the 8x8 with jet pump for water. Price really was not the object, but quality to me was everything. This goes back to you need to look at and test everything for yourself. Buyer beware, I am not going to knock the LandTamer because I hope Pat Miller learned from my experience and perhaps he builds a better quality machine now. If you are going to charge the high bucks you need to deliver the quality.
I learned a very good lesson. I assumed way to much. When you buy a new car you would expect everything to work and look perfect not makeshift.
Sorry, but water leaks, blown CV joints, transmission leaks, and body panels should not be cut with a jig saw & when you run out of rivets you don't just forget them. Plus the fact is that the motor is a used motor. Who would ever think that you would get a used motor? Lesson learned again, don’t assume anything. I did get my money back, which Pat Miller did promise & I am sure we both learned from this experience and I would think the LandTamer has been improved. Tuff lesson for anyone. Lesson learned-stick with a company that has been in the game and knows how to do it right. I have owned two other machines since and the one I thought I would never buy, an Argo, and now I can honestly say is a well-built machine.
Rick

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Rick -

Thanks for the comments. Those problems would drive me nuts, too. We own an Argo Response & use it for property maintenance and handicapped mobility. We really like the Argo. (Now, the Briggs engine....)

Doug

By Pat Miller on Unrecorded Date: Edit

For Doug and whoever else is reads this,

Referring to the prior comments by Rick Cushman, there are two sides to every coin as they say. Rick purchased one of our early models Land Tamer 8x8. For all who don't know me by now, I represent the manufacturer. Yes, we had a few problems as is the case with most new models of vehicles from all manufacturers. Look at new cars, Ford, GM, you name it, there is always some sort of recall that you read about all the time. These large companies have been in business for many, many years and have a large team of engineers as well. Why don't they get it right the first time? Any mechanical system will have some initial problems and until you have enough vehicles in use and a history of reoccuring problems with those vehicles can you determine and correct those problems. Fortunately, we found out about those problems and corrected them quickly.

Yes, we did buy Ricks Land Tamer 8x8 back from him, even though, according to our attorney we weren't obligated legally to do so. The reason we weren't obligated to buy the machine back was that Rick had modified the body of the machine only a few weeks after purchasing it, while it was still under warrantee. From our prespective, he then decided to try to find problems with the machine to justify getting his money back. I could go on and on about that, but to make a long story short, we opted to buy back the machine to shut him up. Obviously, he is still trying to blame someone else for his purchasing something that he couldn't afford in the first place and should have come tested it before buying. But my point is, what other company would buy a vehicle back after several months of use by the customer, after that customer made modifications to the vehicle? Think about it! We went out of our way to satisfy this customer, but some people will never take responsibility for their actions. Go figure!

Anyhow, we have since made modifications to the machine and solved all those problems and are in our 5th year of productions. We have customers all the way from the Artic Circle to Florida, and oversees in mostly heavy duty commercial applications, govt and military. We've learned our lesson with guys like Rick, who bought a machine site unseen on impulse.

We offer free RT airfare travel for anyone to vist our factory, test drive the Land Tamer and judge for themself, if the Land Tamer is the right choice for them. I must say nearly all the customers who visit and test drive the Land Tamer, buy one! These customers know they need a heavy duty, powerful working machine, not just a weekend play toy like the plastic machines. They want a machine that will stand up to every day hard use and last for years. I just thought it necassary to explain our point of view. I rest my case!

By Attex Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Pat: One question I have about your machine is; did you ever; do you still, put used engines in your new machines? Someone on this board talked about used engines in their new machines. I didn't think it was true but now I'm not so sure. I for one would be pissed if I ordered a new Vett and it came to the Chevy dealer with 30k on the engine!!! What is the true story?

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

THANK YOU PAT, WE LIKE HEREING FROM MANUFACTURES,
DO YOU THINK YOU CAN PASS ALONG THE W'S TO ROUTE6X6.COM TO YOUR CUSTOMERS?
THEN THERE MAY BE MORE INFO AVAILABLE TO ALL AND LESS MISINFO,PREHAPS SOME MIGHT GET TOGETHER WITH THE MEMBERS HERE FOR RIDEING EVENTS ECT.. WICH WOULD GIVE US MORE COMPARITIVE DATA,
WE ALL WOULD LIKE TOO HERE FROM YOUR HAPPY CUSTOMERS,
TILL NOW WE THOUGHT THERE WAS ONLY ONE IN EXISTANCE AND THAT THE SMITHSONION WASENT INTERESTED IN IT, HEH HEH HEH

By Pat Miller on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Attex Bob,
Our standard gas model 6x6 and 8x8 do not come with a brand new Nissan engine and 3speed automotive tranmission. We do not claim that it is a new engine and tranny either. We tell the customers up front when they ask. We get our engines directly from our supplier who get them directly from Japan. They are guaranteed to have approximately 25K miles and are all compression tested, etc. We then go over them ourselves, install a new Rochester carburator, ignition system, paint them and all are tested throughly for 3 hours before being shipped. We know they are as good as new or better when they leave our plant. But the benefit to the customer is that they get 80HP for the price of a new 20HP engine. Take your pick, new 20HP lawnmower engine like some of the others or nearly new 80HP Nissan automotive engine which will last 4 times longer. We do not hide that fact from any of our customers because that would be false advertising to say otherwise. Anyone can ask and we will freely tell them that the Nissan engine is not brand new and we explain just what I mentioned above. All other parts on the Land Tamer are brand new. People realize that is not an issue after they see and drive our machine and feel its performance.

With our Industrial model of the Land Tamer 8x8 with the Volkswagon 1900cc Turbo Diesel, that is a brand new industrial engine. I hope this helps with your understanding and whoever else was wondering. I you have any questions about our vehicle feel free to call us at 406-266-5148 and ask for me.

By Attex Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Pat: Thanks for the clarification.

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Pat -

I think LandTamer is way ahead of the game in the water. The waterjet is not only more efficient and faster, it's safer. That's a nice piece of work

By Rick Cushman (Rick) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Doug
Do you now own a landtamer?
What makes you think it is faster and more efficient? I have found that it would not go any faster with the jet pump than it would with tires.

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Rick -

No, I don't own a LandTamer, but I do know a bit about military amphibians. By driving with a water jet and stopping the tires, the tires become big bumpers. However, if spinning tires (or tracks) hit a submerged object, they can climb the object and it is possible to upset the machine. Also, without a spinning propeller, the water pump is boeet suited to shallow water - like entering & exiting the water. So, in my opinion, the water jet is much safer than tire paddles.

The water jet is also more efficient. In order for the tire paddles to push the amphibian, you need a reasonable portion of the tire out of the water. The more gear you have in the machine, the lower it sits in the water. After a while, the top of the tire will be pushing the machine backwards almost as hard as the bottom of the tire is pushing forwards. With the tremendous drag of our bathtubs-on-wheels, you get to the point where you can float, but you cannot go forward under control. The solution to that is to use a different propulsion system in the water, either a propeller or a water jet. I prefer the water jet.

Speed will never be an issue. There is just too much drag on an amphibian to get really tremendous speed out of it.

By Pat Miller on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Doug,
You are absolutely right about the jet system being much better than the tire paddles. Tire paddles will work if your machine is not weighted down beyond the halfway mark on the wheels. When the water level is above the center line of the axle, you start loosing forward propulsion because the paddles start working against you when the water level gets above that. The other problem with paddle tires is that they are designed to cup and scoop the water, which makes them plug up and not clean out when in mud, thereby allowing you to get stuck in mud easier. Most people use their amphibious machines about 90percent on dry land or mud and maybe 10percent in the water so it makes sense to put something like Super Swampers that clean out well and run well on land. Super Swampers don't work in water very well as paddle tires but are great in mud or dry land. So the jet system is the answer for water travel. It gives you the best of both worlds at a flip of the switch and it will allow travel in water over twice as fast with good directional control from the steerable jet nozzle.
With regard to Rick's Land Tamer, we found after we bought the machine back that the drive belt that runs the hydraulic pump was not tight and it was slipping, that is why it would not perform well in water. This was due to lack of maintenance on the machine which Rick should have checked and tightened if he would have read the owners manual better.
Doug, you are also correct about the speed issue. Since you have a very blunt object, no matter how much power you put to the jet, you can only push so fast because you start pushing a big wave of water in front of the machine and could even make water come over the front of the machine. So with the Land Tamer we get around 7-8 mph best case which is over twice as fast as any of the other paddle tire AATVS.

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Pat -

My Dad is an avid sailor, and I remember just how fast 7 knots or so felt when you are right down on the water. I think that the Landtamer's water speed is pretty impressive. But even so, to some folks that seems slow.

By Rick Cushman (Rick) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Doug,
Believe what you like, the jet pump system on the Land Tamer was a $2800.00 option and the only way you would get 7-8 miles per hr. would be going down stream. I have an old scrambler that was just as fast in the water. The remark that Pat Miller made about the belt slipping is exactly the kind of excuse you would expect from the sales man he is. One more thing, when Pat delivered my machine, he drove it into the pond and got stuck because the machine sits so low in the front that the jet was out of the water. Nowhere in the manual did it say to add extra weight to the back so that the pump would work. As for me not reading the manual and not readjusting the belt, sorry Pat it didn’t say that in the manual, nor was that the problem. The jet pump was not sized properly. Maybe it was from all the extra water it took on that slowed it down. This thing leaked like a sinking ship. There is one thing I did read in the manual that was rather amusing:
(Note: When in water for extended times, it is wise to occasionally turn on the bilge pump to eject any water that may have entered through the bearings, etc. I wonder why the Max or Argo machines don’t give that warning.

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Rick -

As I said, a seperate water propulsion system is a good idea, since it makes water performance less dependant on machine load. And I am not that concerned about going fast in the water. I am more concerned about control. And both of those statements are independant of who built the amphibian. One of my biggest frustrations with my Argo Vanguard2 was that if I entered the water with 400 lbs in it, the machine wallowed so badly it was unmanagable. LandTamer has taken steps to try to address the problem. While your experiences are certainly valid, the idea is still sound.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Dougmac, I have the same problem in the water. I have had some friends in the back of the ARGO and as soon as I tried to turn the ARGO around in the water, as the wheeles on one side engaged, it started to feel like it would swamp and wouldn't go anywwhere. The slightest movement would knock it of course and I would end up getting furthur away from where I wanted to go. They say that you can still run the ARGO in water when loaded down but it sucks when you do. If the wheeles are all submerged, you go nowhere.

By Pat Miller on Unrecorded Date: Edit

We have made great strides is making the Land Tamer a better machine because some customers are outspoken and demanded us to do it better. Whether or not I agree with the comments from our customer doesn't matter, we take their comments and advise seriously and did make some significant improvements since our earlier machines. I would not be in business today, after 5 years, if we had not continued to improve our Land Tamer and we will continue to improve the machine as we get more feedback. I have many customers who have had other brands prior to the Land Tamer and they say there is no comparison, that our machine is better built. That being said, there will always be customers who are not satisfied with it for some reason. But as a company, you do not stay in business if you do not continuely improve your product. I really appreciated comments from customers, good or bad, because that is the feedback we need to continuely strive for excellence. As long as our positive complaints we hear outnumber our negative complaints, by a factor of 10 to 1, then I'm satisfied. All I can say is, if there is any doubt, come out and demo a Land Tamer and see for yourself. We will even pay for your trip, if you buy a Land Tamer. It's that simple!

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

HI PAT,
THATS SUPER NEWS!
NOW AS YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED FROM THE LAITEST HYDROTRAX POSTINGS IT WOULD BE NICE IF WE HERD FROM SOME OF YOUR CUSTOMERS, THE HAPPY OR NOT SO HAPPY, DOSENT MATTER,
AS YOU CAN SEE FROM RESULTS OF THE HYDROTRAX POSTINGS THE FEED BACK FROM YOUR CUSTOMERS IS GOOD HERE ON 6X6 TOO AS A WAY TO EDUCATE ALL OF US HERE AND HELP LEGITIMIZE YOUR PRODUCT IN THE MINDS OF THE YET UNCONVINCED AMONG US,
TO FAMILURISE US AND SO ON,
IT MAY BE A RESONABLE WAY TO REACH THE WOULD BE CUSTOMERS WHO WOULDENT BUY CAUSE THEY NEVER HERE ANYTHING ABOUT THEM AT ALL,
JUST LIKE THEY DON'T EXIST WICH IS A BAD THING, IN OTHER WORDS SOMEONE CAN BE CONVINCED THAT KNOWONE ELS HAS ONE SO THEY MUST BE TRASH,
THIS PRESPECTIVE RIGHT OR WRONG YOU AND YOUR CUSTOMERS CAN CHAINGE BY PARTICIPATING,
WE AWAIT SAID POSTINGS

By Pat Miller on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Dave,
I will certainly encourage our customers to comment about the Land Tamer in Route6x6. However, most of our customers are commercial customers who are busy and do not have time to spend on Route6x6. Certainly, I would like the satisfied customers to comment on Route6x6, but usually customers do not comment unless they have something negative to say. Basically, our satisfied customers express their satisfaction by coming back year after year and purchasing more Land Tamers. That tells me they are satisfied.
But even with that said, I would expect anyone who is really interested in buying the Land Tamer would come and demo one and see what they get for the money. I would never take someone elses word for it that a certain product is good or not. Because people have different needs and perspectives than another. That is why there are hundreds of different models of cars, because everyone has different needs and perspectives, for example. We try to tailor the Land Tamer's optional accessories to fit those varying needs of our customers.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

YES PAT WE KNOW JUST AS HYDROTRAX CUSTEMERS ARE MOSTLY COMETIAL CUSTOMERS AND ARE BUISY YOURS WOULD ALSO BE, HOWEVER THERE'S A DIRECT COMPARESON IN THIS, PLEASE PASS ALOND THE INFO AND HOPEFULLY SOME WILL PARTISAPATE HERE AS WELL, AS TO THE MANY DIFERNT CARS ANALAGY, YES BUT WORD OF MOUTH DOSE HELP DIRECT PEOPLS FOCUS ON CERTIN MAKES N MODLES, THEN PRESPECTEV BUYERS FOCUS ON THEM AND MAKE THER DECITIONS, IN SHORT : OF COARSE OTHER PEOPLES OPINIONS MAKE A DIFERENCE!
WETHER PEOPLE REALIZE IT OR NOT IT IS THE VERY FIRST FILTER WE ALL REALY ON!
THATS WHY ADVERTIZING IS SUCH A LARGE INDUSTRY,