Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through September 9, 2000	10

By fred sain on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I own an Argo dealership in Arkansas. We tested the Power Trac for their company, almost two years ago. We found that the machine would not float well at all, had very little power, and was extremly heavy. We tested two machines, the second one had a little more power, but still came up way short compared to Max or Argo. We had a deal with Power Trac to test their machines and give them our input on what changes we felt the machine needed, for our input we were supposed to get a large sales area for our dealership. NOT! We did the work they made a lot of the changes, we recomended. We got nothing, except a lot of wasted time. BEWARE!

By Rem721 (Rem721) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The Hunt Vee looks nice though.

By Myke on Unrecorded Date: Edit

It Floats...Max BullS__t!
I bought a new 2001 Max IV with recommended roll cage, 25 HP Hohler, camo top including recommended 26" wheels and tires. Try floating it and you'll visit Davy Jones locker just as fast and furious as the Max bulls__t floats around this web site!!!!! Add up the weight differentials for the extras that nobody tells you about (ie: 26" wheels and tires, 25 HP ) until it arrives and you would have to be by yourself and weigh 75 lbs or drown.
Myke

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Myke I don't know what your problem is but I think you should put the DRAIN PLUGS in your Max!! If you even have one that is. There is not one single Max IV that comes out of RI that does not float.
Think about it, the 25hp engine is very close to the same size as even the 18hp Briggs. It is all aluminum and adds less than ten pounds!! The tires float so they counter their weight without a problem. A 10" tire or a 100" tire, they both float!
I have personally seen the 25hp Max IV with 26" tires float with four adults.
Your Max came with 20 drain plugs. Use TWO!!!

Take it to the Max!
There is nothing better.

By BLEVINE on Unrecorded Date: Edit

MYKE; WHAT DID YOU SAY IN YOUR LAST POST? DO YOU READ WHAT YOU WRITE? MY NAME IS BRUCE LEVINE AND I ALLSO HAVE A NEW T900 MAX IV. I AM ABOUT 320 LBS AND MY DAD WHO IS 71 AN IS ABOUT 250 LBS. WE HAD COOLERS AND TACKEL AND FISHED FOR HOURS IN AND OUT OF RIVERS AND WHAT A BLAST! PUT ON YOUR LIFE JACKET IN MY STATE ITS THE LAW AND REMOVE YOUR SOFT TOP UNTILL YOU GET USED TO IT AND GO SWIMMING YOU CANNOT LEAN OVER THE SIDE BUT ITS A LOT BETTER THEN A CANOE OR SMALL BOAT. I HAVE DRIVEN DOWN VARY STEEP BANKS INTO WATER AND IT CAME UP TO THE ANGLED PLASTIC ON THE FRONT AND DIDNT GET A DROP OF WATER INSIDE OF IT. ONCE YOU GET USED TO IT YOU WONT BE SO DISAPOINTED.
LATER BRUCE

By mike tufano (Maximus) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Is there any truth to what this guy is saying? It sounds to horrible to be true! Richard please set it all straight you must have this info at hand.

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Better put in the drain plugs then Myke! I have seen the MAX IV set up as you describe float with 4 very large adults and one kid at the same time just to prove it could be done. They had no problems.
Tim

By davidb3rd@aol.com (David3rdd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

how new? mike have you alredy bent any axels? or in some way damaged your bearings?
prehaps damaged flanges(thay get loose after a while and leak, less time with bad beatings, )
bearings are terable as seals, other than the drain holes have you looked for other holes?
its not so hard, after you get the thing full of water and remove it to the safty of dry land just look for the places that are letting out the water, this will show most of but not all of them,
ooh please don't tell us after all this it was the drain holes!!!!!
im not pickin on yah realy im not, i once sank a terra-jet by forgeting the drain plug!

By Bob Bascomb on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a MAX IV-900T with a roll cage, 26" tires, windshield, convertable top, and a Warn 2500 winch with custom mounting bracket. My girlfriend and I were in the water for about 3 hours last Saturday night. It floated just fine. I weigh 225 and my girlfriend weighs about 130. Don't tell her I told you how much she weighs. lol. I did however, have my drain plugs in. If there was a real issue with the MAX IV's I think we would have all heard about it right here.

By Myke on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Nice try folks but you are Max-brain drained. And the drain plugs have nothing to do with water coming in over the top smart guy. I did the weight calculations now you do them, right out of the Max manual, provided they sent you one. The T-900 25 HP adds considerably more weight, and windshield, solid axles, roll bar, axle cages and 26" wheels and tires all of which is pretty standard stuff puts the Max over the weight recommendation in water with only one adult...assuming you're not Twiggy. Do the math for yourself smart guy and report the actual numbers on this chat forum! You'll surprize yourself assuming you're not too far gone! My Max is not safe with one occupant let alone four. People should be advised that unless its a stripped down underpowered version without options, it won't float. It also pulls to the left right out of the box which indicates to me very poor factory assembly and testing procedures.
Myke

By Pete Cagle (Petec) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

i see you are book smart but try the machine in the real world paper an numbers are for engineners not people in the real world i am no max fan but have ran them the max 4 is a good machine next you will be knocking argo an so on what is your point

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

You sound like an engineer Myke! I have had a couple prove on paper that what they just saw happen is impossible! I imagine you believe bumble bees cant fly either. Have you ever seen a Max in the water much less been in one? Who do you think you're kidding? Your claims are ridiculous!
Tim

By mike tufano (Maximus) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

IM only replying to the coment made about the factory assembly I Have been to Buffalow seen the R.I. factory! I've made artificial limbs for 13 years to the highest standards anyone on this site would know! Includeing iso 9000 specs. The process used in makeing one of these machines is through accurate and above all consistant anyone who owns one of these machines (NEW) would see and knows what I'm talking about. Any one who would spend the kind of hard earn'ed cash to buy one knows what he's getting into and those who say they have a max and dont really have one would complane more than most would expect.

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Myke, why did you buy the axle cages when the vehicle does not have the right tires for tracks? It could make the axles a bit stronger for the 26" tires, but it is really a waste of money (axles can still bend anyway). Now you suddenly have a windshild and roll bar. I'd like to see a pic of your roll bar, as the IV can only be equiped with a cage. Once again, the 25hp engine weighs less than 10 pounds more than any other engine in the Max. If you really had a 900-T you would know that it is the fastest current production 6x6 on both land and WATER.
Since you have a new Max IV 900-T maybe you can tell us a little more about it.
1. What color is the underside of the camo upper body?
2. The 25hp Kohler's backup recoil pull start is very hard to pull unless you use the compression release lever. Does this lever move up or down?
3. What fastener must be removed to take out the front floor pan?

MaxRules

By mr. tinker on Unrecorded Date: Edit

i just have one question for myke if he does not mind.how much do you weigh?i weigh 300lbs and have took my maxIV out in the water only once but there was no way it was close to taking on water over the front.i do not have any accessories but i do have the smallest tires [21x8x11.0].i noticed in the pictures i took the front was lower than the rear.also what pressure are you running in your tires? low pressure would reduce your buoyancy.did your max fill with water quickly or did it just take on some water.i think everybody here would certainly try to figure out why your max wont float.i dont know but i think if i filled my max totally full of water it would not go to the bottom it would just sit very low in the water.it would be swamped but i dont think it be going to davy jones locker.

By Bill Byrne on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Sounds to me like someone really thought he was buying a boat. These vehicle are not boats. They do however work rather well in small bodies of water and crossing creeks and streams.

I'm glad to see that the rest of the folks here on this forum have more common sense than to believe the ranting of one poor miss-informed soul.

By the way mike are you from a big city?

I own an Argo vangard and a MAX IV 800. Both are fun and excellant machines. The MAX IV with 26" tires does out perform the argo in water in both speed and handling in the water.

Maybe you should sell your MAX and buy a Power trac ATV 6000. I hear they work rather well in the water. lol.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

myke
last july RI brought there 900t prototype to humphrey, it's in the video with all the rest of the machines that showed up, check and you will se it floated just fine no matter who tryed it threw the obsticl coarse which begins and ends with a swim across a trench with steep embankments, most people who wish too win this timed event plunged in at top speed and some hit the water about half way across! well nobody sank!
have the dealer check out your machine, thay'l figure it out for yah,

By Myke on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Myke here again.
Well here is the math right out of my Recreative Industries Operator Manual...Weight of accessories and options Max IV....Weight added to ATV
Kohler Command 20 hp.............................20 Lbs (I've got the 25 Hp)
26" Dico Tru Power Tires (set of 6)..........132 Lbs
O-Ring Chain (standard)..............................8 Lbs
Windshield..................................................20 Lbs
Convertible top...........................................15 Lbs
Roll cage with seat belts..............................85 Lbs
Winch plate.................................................11 Lbs (I don't have the winch)
Front skid plate (standard)...........................7 Lbs
Rear skid plate (standard)............................6 Lbs
Solid axles (standard).................................29 Lbs
Cargo carrier (custom)................................25 Lbs
Total additional weight of accessories........358 Lbs
Dry weight (Max IV-500T, 21" Goodyear
Rawhide Tires, no options or accesories)...775 Lbs
Total weight including pretty standard
and recommended stuff without any
occupants................................................1133 Lbs
Gross permissable weight in water as
stated in Operators manual......................1275 Lbs
Available weight for occupants, gear etc....142 Lbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I rest my case and I go back to my original point folks, unless you buy a stripped down version without the recommended and pretty standard options, it won't float, unless you're Twiggy. I bought it to explore little lakes in the area for fishing and thats now out of the question unless I strip it down. People should know this information before they buy one to avoid false expectations fueled by the likes of Tim Wafer and Max Rules. I'll fiqure out how to post a couple of pics of my machine for you non believers. You'll probably like my cargo carrier attached at the roll cage which swings up for access to the motor by removing two pins. It weighs only 25 Lbs and is fairly easy to weld together with enough cargo space for a deer and gear.
Myke

By mr. tinker on Unrecorded Date: Edit

myke have you taken the max in the water yet? also you are adding up the weight wrong.you are adding the tires twice.you may have a fear of water but you should find some water that is deep enough to float your max but not deep enough to go over the sides.when i first drove mine in the water it was a funny feeling to say the least.i don't know about the newer max's but mine was made in the mid-70's and it states on the id tag not to go in water deeper than four feet.please try your max in the water then tell us it will not float.

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Myke nobody cares about your math. I like how you avoided my questions. Tough ones for someone who doesn't own a Max! RI gives very conservative figures just like any other company. I've seen a machine just like yours float with four adults. Yes it floats lower and may lose speed (tires farther under the water). It would take a huge amount of weight to actually push the top under the water while floating evenly on smooth water. I've seen a video with a Max IV floating in very rough water with big waves.
The actual weight of the tires does not matter in water. The 26" tires have a greater air capacity over the 21" (even with the bigger rim). With six 26" tires you will float even better than with the 21".
I'll believe what I have seen in a real life situation over your math and bogus claims. I suggest you quit your job at Power-Trac and really get a Max IV 900-T. It's the best there is, you don't know what you are missing.

MaxRules

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

OK Myke, What is the real problem. You obviously have not had your Max in the water yet.

Using your numbers, subtract the weight of the tires (I agree with Brandon that the extra buoyancy offsets any weight increase) and the windshield and the top - that gives you 309 pounds without question. I think the 25hp Kohler is about 12 pounds lighter than the 20 hp engine giving you a little more leeway). Go try your max in the water!

Aside from the rewritten literature and present American legal system, the max IV used to be able to haul 1000 pounds in the water. Machine size, structure and weight of accessories has not changed much. Check the pictures on my web site, that is me and family members and I guarantee you that we weigh more than 700 pounds and there is no danger of swamping- you can still see about three inches of the 26" tire above the water.

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Myke.
You can quote all the figures you like but the proof is in the pudding. I once had an electrical engineer spend two days trying to convince me that it was impossible for an electric water heater to work yet there are millions of them in use.
I don't swim so am not one to be brave in the water and the first time I went in it was a funny feeling. I once took a couple of guys for a ride down a stream near where I work. They both weighed 200+ and I'm around 230. I have a roll cage, winch, rear cargo rack, canvas cab and 100 pounds of gear stowed in it besides. What I forgot was I had just cleaned it and forgot the drain plugs. We got out midstream and I noticed it didn't feel quite right. I looked down and noticed water coming up above the floorboards and realized the problem. I immediately flipped on the bilge pump that I had installed and b-lined it for shore. The guys in the back were a tad upset to say the least especially when we couldn't make it out of the water at the shore. The belt was under water and slipping badly. I made them get out and push till the back was out of the water. At least 50 gallons of water drained out of the machine. Even with all that we weren't swamped. I can't say I impressed my friends much that day however.
The weight of the tires is meaningless, as they would float by themselves. They alone would keep it from going to the bottom even if you did swamp it.
Don't you think that if you were right about it not floating that at least one of the thousands of other owners would have noticed that by now? We are not all conspiring against you, you know.
Tim

By newmax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I just bought my max iv with roll cage, 26" tires winch bearing cages ect. I have been in the water many times. I have a river behind my house and use it to connect me to the trails. it is a full size river at least 6' deep. i have no problem.

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Myke,

Take a look at the carrying capacity in the water. You are correct in adding the winch mount, roll cage, etc, in figuring out how much stuff you can carry. But the other guys are right, too - even overloaded the machine WILL float. It may wallow a little, but you are still okay. The limits are imposed in part by machine design, and in part by liability risk management. My wife & I weigh about 400 lbs between us. We took an Argo Vanguard II out with the two of us, plus life jackets, lunch, trolling motor, and battery. With the trolling motor it handled great. With the tires it wallowed like a tub. If you read the literature and data plates, the Vanguard II is rated to carry 350 LBS in the water, and this machine had some accessories. It was "overloaded" and handled fine. Find some nice calm, flat water with little or no current, put on a life jacket, and take it swimming. (Run a tag line to the beach if you must.) You'll be surprised how well these machines handle. But they're right - it isn't a boat.

By Hydrostatic Drive Shopper on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Dave B. I am sure that you have seen the Power Trac Hunt Vee with the mid engine mount and lack of the full roll cage/canopy. Could it be that their machine was redesigned as a result of the problems that you have experienced with the 6000?

Is there any room in the rear of your machine to install a more powerful engine, say a water cooled 4 cylinder. It will not solve the float/sink problem obviously but should help get up your hill pictured on your web page.

I'm glad you opened my eyes about Power Trac. I could have wound up sharing your problems. Thanks.

By powerbud 8x8 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a question about those powertrac 6000s? Are they any good? I mean, how good are they at climbing, hauling, and such? if anyone can help me, I'd apreciate it. I'm curious if they are good machines. I've seen the prices for them, and I was supprised to find them less than I what I had thought.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

FROM WHAT WE HAVE SEAN HERE IT IS AN UNWISE PERSONE WHO EVEN TAKES ONE HOME FOR FREE,
THEY ARE NOT WOTH YOUR TIME, THEY CANOT DO ANY OF THE THINGS YOU ASKED ABOUT, ONE MEMBER BOUGHT ONE AND HAD NOTHING BUT TROUBLE WITH THE MACHINE,THE COMPANY ,AND FOUND LITTLE HELP FROM THE LAW,
NO NOT EVEN IF THEY DELIVER IT FOR FREE AND ALL YOU NEED IT FOR IS TOO FILL A DEEP HOLE IN YOUR BACK YARD!
STAY CLEAR OF IT,
IT'S ONLY BETTER THAN SPENDING MONEY ON AN EXTREEM MACHINE 2000,

By powerbud 8x8 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I've heard of those Extreem machine 2000s also. Are those junk too? They look pretty cool and everything, I mean being able to raise the body that high off the ground, but they look pretty large also.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

POWERBUD JUST GO TO THE BEGINNING OF THIS THRED AND READ IT ALL, ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW HAS BIN COVERD THREWOUT THIS THRED, CLICK ON THE ARCHIVE AT TOP OF PAGES,