By Donald R. Hinkle (Hinkleshounds) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

ok the answer to the age old question can now be answered. http://hometown.aol.com/hinkleshounds/myhomepage/extreme.html
go to my web page you can see for yourself as they say a picture is worth a thousand words.
I chained a 16 hp maxII to a 16hp argo come see for yourself what happend. I couldnt beleive it!

By Argotony on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don,

The cartoon is funny but what was the real results? I know your not going to tell us that the Max pulled the Argo. The Argo in low gear has much more torque than the Max.

Tony

By Smokey 2 Cycle on Unrecorded Date: Edit

That was cool Donald. I think, there I go again thinking, when I get rich, I am going to buy an Argo and a Max just to do it for real. Ha! Lol

By Donald R. Hinkle (Hinkleshounds) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

tony I wish my max Had a low lock gear too .I just got my first look at an argo other day I loved the two seats in back but I like my motor in back better I think and like the looks and size of my max II . I traded for my max and id would have traded if it had been an argo too . All I wanted was a 6x6 and now I have one .
any you all have Icq ? my number is 106214569
I love chating about 6x6s .Ill have new cartoons
up from time to time . hope you all enjoyed.
hinkles hounds

By john prince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I'm back out there, Max II last year, Argo Van2 this year, same old story, Max goes up hill better, Argo goes downhill better. Argo could use upgrade engine option for more power, brake it going up to turn and you are definitely a three wheel drive vehicle. On max you don't have to brake one side, just reduce tension on one side lever, definitely better uphill. Downhill, forget it. Argo moves down safely in low gear, never have to brake hard. Max is always white knuckles. I live where it is steep, steep steep.

By Argotony on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Yeah I agree uphill with an Argo is tough especially when braking. The Max seems like it would feel weird to be so far foward. I rode in a Max IV and it was scary being so far foward with all the weight in the rear. I seen some ODG guys at Humphrey and they had a prototype 6x6 called the Bigfoot Conquest. It was the Bigfoot body with the 24hp engine. That was one heck of a machine with lots of power. They also had a Conquest Bigfoot, which was a Conquest 8x8 with the larger tire option. There were a few other guys who had their Bigfoot's outfitted with 25hp Kohler commands. I can't wait to get my hands on one of those.

Tony

By Chris on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Guys, I keep hearing that Max's don't go downhill well, and that it's always a white nuckle ride. I'm kinda lost on that part, I've got some really steep hills on my land and I'm not having any troubles going up or down them. There is one hill that my Buffalo can't climb, just spins it's tires so it's pretty steep. I can however go down it without any problem, even coming to a stop on it if I want. My Quad slides all the way down, no chance of stopping, but it DID make it up to my great surprise (it's a 2x4). To do this, I had to climb out on front of the Quad, driving with the handle bars behind me, sitting on the front bumper but it did it, and didn't use speed, just BARELY enough traction to pull the stunt off in low range gear in first. The Max was a bit top heavy I think, started lifting it's front off the ground, then just spun. Going down was exciting but nothing too scary. What is so scary that everyone is mentioning? Maybe I'm just used to it, or too dumb to be scared, or is the Buffalo better somehow? Cheers all.

By john prince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Going up hill in an Argo one would definitely like the bigger engine. A Bigfoot w/more than an 18hp engine would overcome a lot. I didn't know that was in the works. Will likely be expensive. Both Max and Argo(especially Argo) are pushing the retail prices closer and closer to a passenger car.

By john prince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Chris...near as I can figure it, the Max is always in 6 wh drive, which is great for uphill. But it lacks a lower gear as the Argo has. You can get some backpressure by keeping rpm going downhill, but since you are in a higher gear in Max, you have to fall back to the sticks and your braking is strictly on the tranny. That's probably no big deal in the East and Midwest runs where the downhills are not extensive, but I live in steeper up and down topography in the West. A 1/4 mile of 25 to 35% downgrade in a Max means your engine pressure long ago was no help and you have got those sticks back on the tranny all the way down and are concentrating on nothing else. \

In the Argo, lower gear doubles the backpressure help in braking, sticks operate 8 wh brakes and the downhill is relatively relaxed affair(don't take your eyes of the road though). Going uphill, everything I have said is reversed to Max's advantage.

By P.J. on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Sure is nice to have an intelligent discussion about the differences with out some one buttting in with their self-serving "expert" opinion and caustic comments.

By Argotony on Unrecorded Date: Edit

When going down hill in the Max your only stopping power is the trans because the belt is not engaged on the clutches. The Argo is in low gear keeping the belt engaged and using the gearing as a automatic brake very nice for down hill runs. I can't comment on the Buffalo I have never rode in one b4..they look cool though.

Tony

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

CHRIS, THE NEWEST MAX VEHICLES FINALY HAVE SOMTHING LIKE BRAKES THAT WORK, THE PARCKING OR EMERGENCY BRAKE IS A DISC TYPE THAT ATTEX USED IN THE 70'S, ITS NOT STATE OF THE ART BUT IT IS MUCH BETER THAN THE GO-CART BAND BRAKES THEY HAD TILL RECENTLY, SOME WOULD GO AS FAR AS TO SAY THERE ADIQUIT, MAYBE THAY ARE AND MAYBE THER NOT, EATHER WAY THERE A SHIT LOAD BETTER THAN THE OLD STYLE AND PROBLY WHY YOUR NOT TOO WHITE KNUCKELD GOIN DOWN A STEEP HILL, I LIKED THEM ON MY ATTEX, TOO BAD RI IS NOT PLANING A FROUNT FRAIM UPGRAD KIT TO FIX OLDER MACHINES FRAIMS SO THEY CAN USE THE DISC SETUP, WERE ON OUR OWN,

By Chris on Unrecorded Date: Edit

When going down hills in my Buffalo, I usually have the sticks back to control speed but it seems to do a pretty good job. Yes, there is a small disc brake in there and yes, my foot is usually on that emergency brake too, but rarely use it.

Is all the braking from the sticks done via the tranny??? That seems like a lot of wear on it, is this OK?

By Smokey 2 Cycle on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks guys. Like PJ, I agree that this has been an intelligent discussion. I have learned more about the "Ups & Downs" of the Max and Argo in just a couple of postings. "YOU DA MAN's". Just my humble thoughts. There I go again, thinking!

By CT COOT on Unrecorded Date: Edit

THE COOT HAS A SINGLE EIGHT INCH DISK BRAKE THAT RUNS OFF THE MAIN DRIVELINE.THIS LITTLE BRAKE SETUP HAS ENOUGH STOPPING POWER TO THROW YOU OUT OF THE VEHICLE IF YOUR NOT CAREFUL.I WOULD THINK THAT A DISK WOULD BE A GOOD THING FOR THE MAX,CONSIDERING IT WEIGHS HALF AS MUCH AS THE COOT.

By Brian LaBelle (Bknight) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey everyone, picked up my new 2001 max II 18 hp rig last friday, and took it up to Northern Vermont for a ride on our families land. We broke trails with it that made the Humphrey ride look like a walk in the park. As for the braking issues, not a problem, I used both the engine braking and the transmission braking, rarely did I use the emergency brake. We went with 3 other 4 wheelers, and 1 argo vanguard 2 (father's machine). We went over waterbars that would swallow both machines in one gulp. It was hairy to say the least. The places we were working on were old skidder roads..lots of ruts and all our machines got stuck in one place or another.
It doesn't matter what you have as long as you have fun with it.

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

every one
with my bigfoot, I have found that climbing hills is easier in low range. I due most of my climbing though in high range. I have found climbing in high range not to have the throttle open full blast. Half throttle works best for me because the tanny cluch stays closed so i get alot more torque, plus the tires are able to get better traction. Just got back from hespin acres and i have never encountered hills like these anywhere i have ever ridden. My bigfoot really got put to the test and i wasnt disipointed.

By ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

BRAKING WITH T-20 IS EASIER AND "LOW EFFORD" ON BANDS...UNLIKE THE OPEN DIFFERENTIAL SYSTEM WITH BRAKE DESIGN WHERE YOUR BRAKING EFFORD IS MADE DIRECTLY ON FINAL REDUCTION FACTOR THE T-20 UTILIZES WET BAND ACTION B E F O R E REDUCTION FACTOR ( INTERNAL ON T-20 + REDUCTION FACTOR BETWEEN SPROKERS)...ENGINE COMPRESSION BRAKE EFFORD IS RELATIVELY LOW DUE TO TORQUE CONVERTER NATURAL BEHAVIOR.....SO BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE T-20 WET BANDS NEED LITTLE EFFORD TO SLOW DOWN/STOP AATV EQUIPED WITH IT NOT TO MENTION THE EFFICIENT HEAT EXCHANGE FROM BAND THRU OIL TO THE ALUMINIUM HOUSING ON THE T-20 TRANNY....IT'S ONLY A MATTER TO "LEARN" HOW TO PULL BACK THE STICKS WHEN YOU GOING DOWN HILL ( IT'S TRICKY BECAUSE YOUR UPPER BODY TRY TO GO FORWARD....SOLUTION: PRESS YOUR LEGS AGAINST FRONT OF AATV FLOOR ( OR USE SEAT BELT!!!) AND CONTROL YOUR MACHINE!!!!......BOTTOM LINE IS THAT DOWN HILL BOUNCING IS ALSO FUN WHEN YOU ARE IN CONTROL!!!!OTHERWISE.......YEAH THE "WHITE KNUCLES" STUFF...........

By johnprince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The "new brake" in Max might be interesting...too bad I didn't get a chance to use it. Location is important. You are stradling middle on downhill, trying to control pull back on sticks evenly. So where's this footbrake? It needs to be in a place that your foot can find without raising up too far or being out of symmetry. And it needs to have real stopping and slowing power on steeper inclines? There is little opportunity to take your eyes off trail when you're moving downhill 30% or more and the edge of the trail drops 50' or more(more regular routes). And I take customers with me! Clearly there out to be some sort of footbrake working all six wheels, a real stopper. This should be entirely indepedent of the sticks so you can can steer and brake separately. The Argo compromises with brake on sticks. The Max compromises with inadequate stopping downhill with footbrake. I wish these two "companies" would spend a little money on R&R so we had a machine commensurate with the prices we were paying. YOu just have to look at the high quality engine/tranny/brakes that a typical Japanese Quad provides...for LESS MONEY... to prove this point.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

yes john p, I checked out the new brakes and liked the stoping power as it was better, almost adiquit,
IT STOPED EASY AND HELD IT ON A 35* SLOPE!
at least the one i tested, however it's owner and i agreed the footpettal needed beter placement and and size for shure hits when your lookin for it, i think a hydralic brake can be fited to the left lateral, maybe they can put that disc set on the trany, or the center or rear axel drive tubes, prehaps all 4 but how many calipers can a small master cylender on the left lateral operate ????

By Smokey 2 Cycle on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Brian. What is a waterbar? I am thinking, that's the problem, about what it might be. Please educate me as to what a waterbar is. Thanks.

By Rem721 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

For those with newer machines that have an alternator equipped engine. How about adding an an electric powered or electric/hydraulic slaved cylinder disc brake in the drive. Expensive yes, problematic maybe. Control it from one the laterals so it is convenient to get to. No, I have not done it, it's an idea that may be flawed and I don't have any technical expertse on how it could be done. Somebody take this idea and expand it or diminish it here on the board.

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

johnprince,
your right about prices, they are rediculous to say the least for maxs' and argos'. I think if these two companies made their prices copatible with quads, they would actually make MORE money because price scares most potential customers away. Both max and argos are good machines but both need more power and more improvements. and then they advertise as the all in one atv, snow , water and land. they come ready for land, but not water or snow. A bilge pump is a necessity for water travel it has saved my butt twice, yet it is an expensive option on argo and not an option at all on max. and to be snow ready you have to fork out two grand or more. Options are more outragous than the machine price. I paid the price for my argo because i fell in love with it when i first drove it. their is only so many people like me out their though. alot of quad guys at hespins acres said they would probably buy one but when i told them how much they cost their reation was, screw that no atv is worth that kind of money. and also the argo conquest is more than a KIA sportage according to a friend so argo has broke into the small vehicle market!

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

HOLY SHIT IS THAT RIGHT? HELL AINT THEM KIA'S THE ONES WITH 10 TEAR WARENTYS TOO!
MAYBE WE SHOULD TALK THEM KIA GUYS INTO BUILDING 6X6'S HUH,

By john prince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David....

placement of footpedal and height of footpedal would need to be right where you foot was expected to be, not too high so you are doing a knee jerk to get your foot up all the while knocking your arm off the sticks. Mechanical might be okay but ought to be more than just a couple of wheels.

Prices are exactly as you state, accessories equalling the price of the machine. I have a pretty good relationship with local high tech welder, upholsterer, but really would like to just have the factory stuff. I'm sure their prices are high because they are just jobbing them out in very minute quantities.

A couple of years ago with Max II I have my local guy make a very simple left arm(could have been right) extension for the one stick so that it leveraged over in front of that side of your body. Now when you pulled back on the sticks, you were pulling back much more evenly, straight back to your body, way better control, allowed you to sit tightly to one side on the seat and have your passenger not being crowded. It cost me about $200. You wouldn't need this on an Argo as sticks require less tension, are located more to one side already.

Why Max doesn't have a simple accessory like this for the sticks is beyond me. Not everybody needs it, though I think anybody who tried it would see it was an improvement. Of course, if it was a factory accesssory, they'd price it at $500

By Bknight (Bknight) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Smokey 2 Cycle,
A waterbar is what you place on a dirt road to direct the water to one side or another. Basically it's a large pile of dirt angled usually downhill to keep the rains and runoff from washing out the road. On these old skidder roads there is one place about every 100 yrds or so. You have to go up and over them to keep moving..some of them were quite scary

By Chris on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I always wondered what those were for. I thought they were to keep ATV's and stuff like that from running the trails. They're common on our utility routes here. (referring to the waterbar)

By E L McKenney on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a max and I can definitely agree with downhill being a white knukle ride. My problem is that on a long downhill run ther max outruns the engine leaving your only steering being the self energizing bands. My solution is to take hills so I don't excede about thirty-five mph so that I can use the engine to steer instead of the brakes.

By john prince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I wouldn't really care on the Max except I often take customers with me. By myself I got fairly good at long steep runs, but the customer riding next to me pretty well figured out that if I lost the sticks, he and I were headed into the next ravine. Having a useful footbrake would have made a huge difference.

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

the hydralic breaks on argos are really nice going down hills. you have almost total control at your finger tips with very light pressure. you are never in total control going down steep hills in any six or eight wheeler.

By john prince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

argogeru...
I am more than curious about Bigfoot going up hill at lower rpm in high gear??? How steep are these hills? I can't get my Van2 to pull more than about 10% hill in high gear, full out or half rpm, assumed all Argo's were not set up to pull hills in high gear. Anybody tried steeper hills in high gear in Bigfoot, Conquest or????

When I'm facing 20%, 30%, 40%, I wouldn't even think of getting near high gear, not up, not down???? Am I missing something here.

By ARGOGERU on Unrecorded Date: Edit

john prince,
I keep the throttle at half untill i need to turn or climb over something going up a steep grade. I would then give it more throttle but I insure the secondary clutch does not open all the way because the power would be gone. you can tell how much it is opening by your speed and the power gain or loss of the motor. if your sedondary clutch does open all the way on a steep incline let off the throttle 3/4 of the way so it will close back up. are you going to the badlands the 25&16? also, running at full throttle and going up a hill is not going to kill your power but as i start going up i let off the throttle when I start losing speed to let the secondary clutch disengage. If the clutch is half way or all the way disengaged I have no problem turning on hills.

By Gord Young on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I think your clutch set up may be suspect there John. I had a Vanguard with the 16 HP engine. When I first bought it the clutch did not move smoothly and found that it affected the performance of the machine. Once the clutch was rebuilt the machine would turn in any terrain and pull up hills with a lot more ease. Given that it had a 16 HP engine, it did not perform as well as my new machine; a Conquest. The conquest stays in high gear until I get into the nasty stuff where slow speed agility is required over very rough terrain. Other than that, it remains in high gear and has no difficulty pulling the machine loaded with two adults and two kids up a 30% to 40% slope (estimate).

I would add that the clutch setup for the Vanguard and Conquest differ little and use the exact same drive belt. To my knowledge the only difference lies in the primary/driver clutch that is mounted to the engine. The larger engines use heavier centrifugal weights in the primary clutch than the 16 HP Vanguard; which may also explain the difference in performance.

My friends who use Skidoo's in winter tell me that the cleanliness and lubrication of the snowmobile clutch is essential to top performance. Another friend who owns a belt drive polaris ATV tells me that he had his clutch serviced each year and it makes a big difference to the performance.

If I could be so bold to offer some advice I would recommend that you take your machine to have the clutch serviced. A new belt may also help. If a new belt is not in your future, make sure that the one you have is clean and free from oil contamination. Hope this info points you in a new direction.

Cheers,

Gord

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

argogeru, DOWN HILL? , an attex with baker hill trans will give you all the controle there is, amphicats also,ther breakes are totaly fetherable and alow you realy good controle at any speed you wish to go,

By ARGOGERU on Unrecorded Date: Edit

john
your runnamuck tires are a problem to when going up hills. the will just start spinning unlike the rawhide tires that will give you 100 times the traction.

By Oliver (Digipix) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I've got the Carlisle Chevron (similar to Runumuck) tires on my Max and I'm really amazed ath the traction they've got for so little tread. I couldn't run the Rawhides due to ground damage in my area, so the Carlisle's are a compromise. I've gotten them to spin on a hill, but overall they do very well. Since I carry a lot of weight (Full bed of rocks, cut trees, dirt, etc...) I usually run the tires a little higher PSI to keep the sidewalls from blowing out. At the higher pressure, they grip less, so I just let out some air and once they're soft (3.5pounds), they mould around things and grip really well (Hard terrain, haven't done this in deep mud). I have a small 12v air compressor under the bench, with an air hose coming out on on both sides so taking the tires up/down in pressure is really fast and simple. Works great.

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

gord
I control my secondary clutch from opening/closing by the amount of throttle I give the machine. Just had my machine serviced and the clutch was a okay. the belt had about 1/8 inch of wear so it was replaced and can tell a little of a better performance.
Dave,
to clarify I was only talking about max and argo going down hill and breaking. I do not no much about attex and amphicats but wouldn't mind having one of both. Just started my 73 argo 8 wheeler project so they will half to wait.

By john prince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I'm running rawhide III's. As to clutch, since my machine is still fairly new/low hours, I'm surprised to hear maybe it should be looked at. My main complaint is maybe no complaint at all: running uphill fully loaded(600 lbs), I'm full out in low gear and no way in high gear(uphill=30%+ incline). I can't believe I could go up that incline in high gear even half load. So you are saying if my clutch was working property, I could go up that incline in high gear????

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

here we go again why are we alwase guessing inclines???people get a meeter for god sakes, the hill that one who climbs backwards in hi gear towing a motor home ect,,might only be a 15%grade!!
and then another gueses he has a problem climbing the same grade and he is guessing too!!posably its a 45* who knows! let's all get acurat gages, meters what ever you want to call them,
before we worrie about our cluches lets get on the same page ok?

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

argogeru,
ooh, it was the "any" in any six or eight wheeler that i was responding to,
from your post of 9-6-2001 @10:32 pm
as far as argo and max though, yah im with yah on them

By johnprince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Actually last time out I borrowed my surveyor's inclinometer, just because I have the same problem you are talking about, always guessing at inclines. The inclinometer(Suunto) has percent on one side, degrees on the other. 30% slope is 15 degrees. I ran up exactly 37% slope, fully loaded(600lbs), needed full rpm, maybe a couple of hundred feet in single stretch at one time. I'm sure I exceeded what the factory meant by full load...never intended it to be up that much of a slope. I'm not sure you could pull 1000' at that continuous slope without a problem. I'm guessing that going over an obstruction, say a 2' log, would be a 90%(45 degree 1'::2') run. Fortunately, this amounts to only a 2' run, up and down. The up looks okay; the balance on the log and then the down part could be a bit mean.

I once saw a guy on a quad try a run pushing 45%. He had to stand up and bring all weight to bear on the rear with full rpm. He never made the top...didn't tip but wheels slipped and the quad couldn't get enough traction. I was sitting there quietly in a Max thinking I don't need an inclinometer to know what a coffin on six wheels looked like.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

yah i guess i know what yah meen, i once saw a budy hit a small but steep hill too hard on the throtle, i yeled to him to let go of the throtle when the frount tires came off the ground but he must not have herd me as the rear tires drove up the hill leaving him hanging there for a moment, then just like in a cartoon he fell out before it fell on him, ouch!!we pushed it over and he got up after a while and said he was fine, but he did hurt his back and he was out of work for two weeks!
( that was in 1986 & the machine was a attex 208-tt i put a 440cc rupp engine in)

By John Hamilton on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a little Max II with just 14hp ,and if it can't go up atleast a REAL 60 degree incline of ATLEAST 8 feet......I'll burn it!Why do that......well I have gone on a Suzuki King Quad up an ACTUAL 85+ degree hill...easily a few years back.The ironic part(s) to this is that I could NOT walk up or even run up this hill on foot.It was shale rock which breaks very easily....very,VERY easily.The other part to this is I could do this WITH my wife on the back!I know,it is a single person machine and all but I did this many,many times without any problems.Sure this wasn't a 100 ft. hill...but I had to start at the base without ANY type of running start due to a lack of room.All machine...no help from momentum here.It was ALL machine.The hill was and still is around 25 ft almost straight up!My Max II CAN do the same as the "King Quad" did back in 90.As for going down a hill in a Max.....well I can say it is....IF you have the nerve that is.....hehehe,ALOT easier than ANY 4x4 atv made.I almost bought the new Grizzly 660 and it is THE MACHINE in the four wheeler world as of now.My little Max II.....kills it....except for jumping which in my mind is to be left for planes or something MADE just for that....FLYING.Brandon might be crazy enough to fire up his Hustler though and show the 660 what jumping is!!!Landing they will win hands down.............

Going fishing..in the lake a few miles away.I just got off work and have the urge.It is 3:00 am here right now so I'll need the spotlight!!Let's see your Honda Rubicon follow me fishing,which brings up a small question hopefully answered else where.

Say a prayer for those that have perished,ok.

By 97 Bigfoot on Unrecorded Date: Edit

There is no replacement for displacement. Next time don't buy the cheapest machine you can buy. If the II 450 would work as good as a II-800 no one would buy a II-800. Duh!

By john prince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Degrees vs percentage. An 8 foot obstacle at 60 "degrees" would be the equivalent of going over an 8' diameter tree. A 60 "per cent" incline is how this should be quoted.

By Sidney Webb (Sidneywebb) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I may be wrong, but seems to me that a 100 perc ent grade is defined as 1 foot of rise for each horizontal foot. Therefore a forty-five degree angle (geometrical angle). A sixty percent incline is one which rises sixty feet for each 100 feet horizontally. That angle would be somewhere around 30 degrees.

By Eugene Kochnieff on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The only way a quad or aatv will go up a 85+ degree slope without significant momentum is if it is winched, Fact!!!!

They will both however go up a 85% slope which is
inverse tan 0.85= 40.3 degrees.

A 60% slope is inverse tan 0.6=31 degrees.

And just for reference a slope of 80 degrees is 567% grade!!!!!!!!!


See Ya Eugene

By ARGOGERU on Unrecorded Date: Edit

YOU GUYS ARE CONFUSING US SIMPLE PEOPLE. HILLS ARE ONLY AS DANGEROUS AS THE DRIVER MAKES THEM. SOME YOU SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM AND SOME YOU SHOULD TRY IF YOU WISH, AND SOME ARE NO PROBLEM. THAT IS MY SIMPLE SOLUTION FOR THE SUNDAY RIDERS AND THE CRAZY RIDERS. JUST REMEMBER GOING BACKWARDS DOWN A HILL YOU TRIED TO CLIMB BUT COULDN'T IS WHITEKNUCKLE DRIVING AT ITS FINEST. SEE YA AT THE BADLANDS.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

or for thoughs of us who are not big math wizes, just get a meeter and lern how to use it,

By John Hamilton on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey, all the math here is like school or something.Hehehe.....I only know that if you hold your hand straight up in front of your face...that is truely 90 degree accent or decent.If I am wrong then school didn't help me any.Like I said,atleast 85+ degrees not percent.I guess either I have been riding toooooo long on all types of machines or I am dumb.Who cares though.Traction plays a BIG part in any hillclimb and I'll give the King Quad it's dues.When you have to climb a hill where you sit almost in front of the vehicle(over the front rack for quads,almost falling out of the front for a MAX)just to keep some wheels BARELY grasping for the least little bit of traction...then THAT is my idea of steep.

As for the Max II being the smallest...well.I didn't get this machine FOR speed but if I ever need the extra power I'll build the motor...but why should I?I bought the Max II 450 INSTEAD OF an ARGO BIGFOOT....no messing around to get all wheels rolling.PREDATOR was too expensive.....

I'm more concerned with IF the darn thing will sink on me or better yet...can I make it back out of the river without tipping over either sideways or even backwards.This is a time and situation where a WINCH would help being that even a Max can't climb out of water up 2-4ft high banks (you know 90+ degrees...sometimes tilting back towards you)which limits where and when I get out(and in!) of the water.

Eugene,I will agree that a quad can't make such a hill....unless I have seen OR done as such myself.It isn't JUST the machine here for some of us.Look...when is the bigger ARGO's going to come out.You know....the expansion wasn't for JUST the Centaur..or was it.Anybody care to answer?Perhaps a "HotRod" Bigfoot in both 6x6 and 8x8?Or better yet...with real "Max-ish" ALL WHEEL DRIVE to boot?

By john prince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Once upon a time...there was a discussion about "backing a 6x6 out" of a pond instead of frontal assault if you had a problem with mud, traction. Can't imagine how you get out over a steep bank short of a winch. Then there's the issue of who's getting out of the 6x6, going ashore, finding a tree to attach the winch to?

As for steepness, generally speaking my best strategy is avoidance. I am willing take on a certain amount of short sidehill to avoid steepness. The theoretic limits of steepness just don't match real world where the ground is too hard, too soft, there's a nasty 6 to 8" log in the path you don't see, you have to turn sharply to avoid overheads and lose momentum. And, of course, here comes winter and pretty quick the ground is too slick to even think about steep uphill.

By fred sain on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Jhon: Your problem with the Vanguard climbing needs to be checked by your dealer. Unless your tires are spinning, your Argo should climb much better than what you are describing. Have the dealer check RPMs, belt, and clutch. There is an adjustment on the rear clutch, that will engage the clutch at lower RPM,s. That might help. I think the first thing to do is take it to your Dealer. Hope this helps you.