Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through July 30, 2000	6

By jim on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a grizzly 600, and I can out pull any 6x6 I have done it, the only advantage is that you can float.

By Craig Lasher (Celasher) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well Jim, I have a 30 year old "KID" by LTV and I don't think you would have much luck pulling it. but it is an 8x8. plus it can climb half way up a steep hill, stop, and then finish the climb.

By Ken Thompson on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Jim,

I have an Argo 6x6 and I once gave help to a UPS truck stuck on the ice. I hooked on and gave him a pull and he drove right out. I would hook up to your quad and pull you until you transmission catches fire.

Ken

By Ted Stanfield (Ted) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

My quad wont pull my coot when its not running.If the coot was running I bet I could pull 3 quads

By john prince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I watched this friend of mine run a very steep hill in his Honda 4x4...needed about a 100' running room to get to high enough rpm on a hill that easily pushed 30%+...very long ascent...400' I think. About half way up he was losing momentum. He is very skillful, done a lot of backcountry on a quad for logging, tree counting. So he quickly gears as low as he can go, comes all the way to a standing position to move all his weight to the back of the quad. He made it, but I knew a less skilled operator would not have made it, would have flipped or stalled in a horrible no win spot.

When he was back down, I casually drove 6x6 up same hill at about half rpm. At the midpoint where he was in trouble, I decided that the tree cover was too dense. So I came to half, shifted to reverse, casually backed down, never was in danger although backing is not as good a view.

By J.R WHITELEY on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I do not think that comparing a 6x6 to a 4x4 quad to a racing quad to a three wheel trike can be done. i have drove them all and they all have their goods and bads. for example the three wheeler is less stable going around the side of a steep hill. the 6x6 will not climb the same hills as a honda 250r quad. the 250r will not go through deep mud as well as the 4x4.

By mad mike on Unrecorded Date: Edit

well i think aatvs are 4 people who r lazy and not in shape cause u dont have 2 do any work when driving an aatv on quads u have to move body and have strong legs and aatvs r boring cause they go slow and u cant jump them and do tricks.

By Al on Unrecorded Date: Edit

My Dog's bigger than your Dog!
My Dog's bigger than yours!

Seriously,
I have quads, dirt bikes, and an AATV.
They are ALL fun. They will all do some things the others cannot do. Instead of knocking other people's choices, remember, they are all enjoying a different version of off road riding. If you have to attack someone, attack the SUV driving tree-huggers who want to keep all the people out of all the forests.

By mr. tinker on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hopefully when you are doing tricks and jumps nothing ever goes wrong.you may be one of the lucky 4-wheelers who never gets your knee blown out or your back hurt or worse yet paralyzed.my 4-wheeler buddy said the same thing to me about going slow and jumping. it wasn't long after that he flipped over and hurt his back.i am 40+ years old and don't need to jump. don't want to see wildlife and nature passing me at 50+ mph.if i need speed i will get on my harley davidson and cruise on down the highway faster than any 4-wheeler you have ever seen.

By Russell Lee (Bigkodiak) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey AL
Watch the SUV driving, tree-hugger comments. Some of us are BIG rednecks. Just because someone is driving a "SUV" doesn't mean they don't like to play.
I drive an Excursion, (I miss my pickup though.) I don't like to call this machine a "SUV" because it really is a TRUCK. Built on a Truck chasis with a big HUNKIN DIESEL engine.
I go out and play hard in the woods.
I don't like tearing up land to build houses but I do believe in taking lumber the way it is done today.
The woods are meant to be enjoyed in many ways. I enjoy them in my ARGO, in my truck (YES I SAID TRUCK), and while I am hunting. Does all this make me a tree hugger? MAYBE but if I am it's only because I want to enjoy the woods.
Also I regularly get all 6 of my wheels airborne.
A day without MUD is like a day without sunshine.
Russ

By Al on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Russell,
You can't see the forest through the trees!

A Tree-Hugger is someone who tries to stop timbering by wrapping their arms around the trees that are to be timbered. These are extremists who claim to be protecting the environment.

The SUV comment pertains to the fact that many of these "conservationists" are actually guilty of driving gas guzzlers. They REALLY don't see the forest through the trees.

These extremists do not want anyone, even horseback riders in the forests, causing "erosion."

Enjoy the woods, that is what they should be for, that is exactly what I said.

And enjoy that Diesel Too, Awesome, they are!

Al

By Pirate Dish (Piratedish) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have just ordered an 8x8 Argo conquest which should be ready next week. I have a Grizzly 600 and think it is an awesome machine. All machines have there good and bad points which is why I purchased an Argo with the trailer....it fits all my hunting and fishing needs here in Nipigon, Ontario Canada. This comment is to Jim who first posted. I will put the Argo and Grizzly thing to the test and see which one pulls which and let you know. I do know that I cannot go hunting where I have been with my friend who also owns and Argo conquest and take all our beer and gear and haul out a 900 pound moose with my Grizzly 600!! So its all about whatever floats your boat or should I say Argo!! hehehe

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Good Call, I have yet to try a max or even seen one in reality. However, I have an ARGO, have always had one, and I think it is safe to say I have developed a severe obsession with them. ARGO rules, Max drules

By jamiemark on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I would definately like to pull against an ARGO. I own an Arctic Cat 500i shifter 4 wheeler. I bet I can give someone a good run for the money!

By Twin Creek Taz on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have had three wheelers, Honda Odyssey, a Honda Fourtarx 300 4x 4 , a Honda Fourtarx 300 2x 2 an Argo 8 IC, an Argo 6 STD, and now the best for last. I have a Fantastic Honda Rubicon 4x4 ! True there may be a place or two the Argo will go that the Rubicon cant go. The same goes the other way here in Idaho we have miles and miles of ATV trails. Most are not wide enough for Argo or a Max. Besides that it would take all day to get to where you wanted to go with the Argo. The skid steer is anything but smooth. My Argo wont see much action in favor of the Rubicon. No belts basically hydrostatic drive.

By Red Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well, I am pretty sure as far as a pulling match, there's no doubt that an Argo Conquest would pull your 500i...almost as if it were not even back there. But it weighs so much more & has eight wheels on the ground. I have pulled whole 15" dia. trees to our camp with my Conquest and if you don't look behind you, you could forget its back there. I also own a Honda Forman which could not pull near the amount of weight. Not trying to get anyone mad here, just stating the facts. Talk to you later, Red wolf

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Redwolf, I have an 88 ARGO MAGNUM 8x8. Even pulling a trailor, I don't even notice its there until I have to back it in to a tight area. Backing in and turning takes a bit of practice but I can do it whereas, in the van, it takes 10x longer. A 4 wheeler just barly pulled me on flat ground and all it took was for me to apply the brake about a quarter of the way and the 4 wheeler was spinning like hell. I wasn't in need of towing but it was and experiment. I stopped it once to ask my friend something, and shifted to reverse. I started backing up and he tried going forward, just got dragged. 4 wheelers don't stand up to argo's and I can't speak for Max but likely them to.

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

what's the problem, if a tail is to tight for my bigfoot i just make a new one!!! if i can't go over the trees, my chainsaw can go through them. as far as pulling power,a rancher 4x4 was stuck up to his frame in goo mud. a grissly was trying to pull him out, i was going to hook to the griz.to give alittle extra pull. the griz. pulled out of the way. so i headed in to pull the rancher, out backwards. i only moved him about six inches. so i turned around, backed into the mud ,put the bigfoot in low,and pulled him right out.i did have to look back to make sure he was still hooked up,cause i didn't feel him at all.just so you know when i tried to pull him,the first time and didn't get to far,was because we packed him in mud up to his cargo mount
i'm sure yo all have a story like this, both sides, enjoy what you have,brag on it when you can ,and just keep riding. mike

By Red Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Yes David, you are SO right!! If Jamiemark wants to bring his/her Cat 500i down here to central GA, I'll be glad to bet $2,000 that I can pull that 500i around like a rag doll. Just hope she don't expect me to roll my Argo Conquest out for free! The sad thing about the pulling match is she doesn't know it yet, but MY ARGO IS HEADED STRAIGHT FOR THE LAKE!!!! Yes.....you guessed it, the end for Cat 500i.......Only a Creek Indian would do such a thing? Red Wolf

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

HEY RED WOLF IF THAT GO'S DOWN WILL YOU PLEASE MAKE SHUR YOU GET IT ON VIDEO TAPE, HEH HEH HEH

By Red Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

OK Bro.....But haven't heard hide nor hair from ole Jamie. I must say, it would be a sight to see!!!!! Take care, Red Wolf

By Dave Johnston on Unrecorded Date: Edit

4x4..>Well lets see...you can buy a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon edition....your you can buy an old Jeep or Land Cruiser and put a few thousand in it...and end up with something that can handle DRY off road conditions for around $25,000...Or you can buy a 6x6 or8x8 amphib for around $10,000 and be ready for year around fun....(when was the last time you saw a Jeep in 10 foot snow? Or in the middle of a lake? Or in a deep mud bog?).. Jeeps are fun,,,but rather limited for year around fun...

By Dustin Sheldon on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi everyone, I've owned a '97 Max 600T and a 2001 Honda Rancher 4x4. The Honda is great if all your looking for is a smooth ride, and yeah it can fit through narrow spaces (makes it tippy too), but when it comes to mud, snow, power, towing, and hills, not to mention water, there is no comparison! I have pulled my friend's honda out of the mud and I was in the mud hole at a stop when I started to pull. It didn't feel like I was even pulling anything. I have never had the opportunity to drive an Argo or an 8x8, but the 6x6 was great!

By 6_wheels on Unrecorded Date: Edit

It doesn't suprise me that a quad owner would talk trash to 6x6 owners. I guess I would do the same thing if someone had something better than me. I really doubt a Grizzly would pull a 6x6, well, at least a good one. If it were out of shape and underpowered, it might. I'd love to see a Grizzly try to pull a Max 900-T. That quad would be killed.

By 6x6 kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

This is to Twin Creek, who posted that garbage about the Rubicon being better than the Argo. Dude, you need to think that over. I don't care how bad you think that Rubicon is, I could take and Argo or Max and rip that 4-wheeled piece of junk a new one. You talk about it being new. I bet the first time something goes wrong, you are left to look at an expensive piece of junk. What makes an Argo so great is how simple they are. True, the Rubicon might have a smoother ride, but when you end up sunk to your handle bars, you'll wish you were in the Argo. I don't care how big your tires and motor are, it won't do you any good when you are sunk down in gooy mud, and can pull out.

By Argo rocks on Unrecorded Date: Edit

This is to Mad mike. You say aatvs are for lazy people. You are wrong. Its a shame when you have you use something as dumb as that comment. I like that fact that you can drive an aatv and not have move your body around. Wouldn't that make you tire?

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hey red wolf,i can think of a few gringos that would do that too.especally if the lake is deep.of course when you hit the water you'll have to fire up the ol'outboard just to get that cat good and wet,right? oh wait,that would be cheating,since you can't put an outboard on a furwheeler can you?wahaha.

By Argo rules on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I know you aatv gouys will hate this, but there are a few web sites on the net that give credit to the Honda ATC 90 for starting ATVs. Doesn't this make you guys sick? OH, and one thing that might make you guys feel better. My neighbor who lives up th road from me, and works at a Honda dealsership, has been given three days off of work becasue business has been so bad. I hope this makes some of you feel a little bit better, knowing that the quads are hitting a slow period. Death to the quads!

By Dave Johnston on Unrecorded Date: Edit

There are place out here in the Nevada mountains that you come upon a river or stream.. With an AATV you can go thru, and not have to go looking for a way around or a ford across. Try that with a quad. Also, I can take up to 6 people in my Argo. Try that with a quad. And with my Argo, I can actually lose (blow, remove, tear apart, etc) four tires and keep going. Try that with a quad. I can go in snow, albeit better with tracks. Try that with a quad. BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, people stop and ask all kinds of questions about my Argo. Who cares about a quad? they are a dime a dozen.

By Argo kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I keep hearing about the glory days of the aatv being forever lost in the past, but This is not true. You guys and s who own aatvs are living in the glory days. Sure, the industry as a whole is gone, but the 6x6 is far from and is actualy better than it ever was in the past. Every time you guys hold a rally, or have to save some stupid quad from a muddy , you are showing that the 6x6 lives. You may be small compared to the quads, but honestly have nothing to prove because you are truly better than the masses of 4-wheeled junk bikes out there anyway. You know it and the thousands of other people who own them know it. Maybe the 6x6 will become an industry again and maybe it won't, but that doesn't matter. The truth is, the three-wheelers with their "cheaper" prices couldn't kill the 6x6, nor could the energy crisis of the 70's, and I belive that the quads won't either, with thier mass numbers and sales fluff for ads. The day the 6x6 dies is the day you guys stop buying and riding them. You shouldn't be fighting over which 6x6 is better either, you should be out there enjoying them with one another. Max and Argo are too small to try and kill each other off.

By - (Fyafighter) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I think "argokills" has the right idea, the 6x6's (and 8x8's) companies that have survived (mainly max and agro) both make great, fun machines ( I have friends with Argos and I have a max we have a great time riding all or just one of them) and as far as I can tell its kind of like the old ford vs. Chevy fight, both make great trucks, but if ford went out of business then Chevy would have no one to force them to make better trucks every year, and vise versa. I would love to see the day that I see more aatv's than quads on the trails, but that wont happen until the R I or agro start trying to market there machines more aggressively.(the first time I saw one was in 94 at a paintball tourney in SC, It took me till 98 and this site to find out what it was, and there still isn't a dealer for max or agro within 300 miles of me). If I ever see a TV ad (national TV not a dealer), I will probably think I am having a stroke. its not that there is not a market for them, most people don't even know the exist. Several people that have seen mine or heard about it are absolutely fascinated, and the price is only a issue for a few of them, my brother in-law last year paid 9000+ for a top of the line Kawasaki mule just so he and my sister could ride side by side, now he says "I wish I had got one of those". It comes down to 2 basic things 1)People cant buy what they don't know is there, and 2) Marketing Marketing Marketing.

By Argo Kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I agree with fyafighter. RI and Argo need to start marketing their products better, so that more people know about their machines. I don't think it would put the quad companies out of business, but it would give RI and Argo room
to grow. I see Argo and Max ads in magazines and cycle traders now more than I have in the past, and even a few for sale, and guess what, they are affordible, like $4500 for a 1999 Max II, and $6000 for a 2000 Argo 8x8. Let remind you that the machines in the ads are not 30 year old beaters, but recently new s. In my opnion, I don't think it was the three-wheelers or the energy crisis that put most of the 6x6 companies out of business, just a bad reputation. Its sad that this happened, and if it didn't, then maybe the quads wouldn't be here now, and if they were, they would be the small market. Lots of people on here brag about what their machine can do and put others down. They claim they can out pull this person or climb better than that person, and so on. Maybe they can, but it doesn't matter, because every person is different, and has differnt skill and courage levels. They way I feel, is that you should keep competition friendly, and enjoy the mountains with everyone, even people on quads, because that's what makes it so great, is having differnt machines to ride with. LIke I said, competition is good, but keep it friendly.

By 6x6 rules on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I had a thought about the quads. I don't really like that much, but you guys should think them quad guys. I mean somebody has to give us aatv fans a reason to compare. Its no fun comparing an Argo to a Max, or a Max to a Hydrotraxx, becasue they are pretty much the same. it is fun to show the quad guys what they are missing out on, and to have to pull them out of the nasty mud pits.

By Dave Johnston on Unrecorded Date: Edit

NO KIDDING...I sent a LONG letter to Argo about improving their sales. IE: Letting dealers have free machines to display instead of making the dealers buy them, having some sort of finance for their machines so buyers would not have the outlandish interest rates charged by loan companies, having ARGO insurance from the company, having company sponsored events like Jeep does, etc. Many, MANY idea on how to improve sales. GOT ABSOLUTELY NO RESPONSE FROM ARGO. Guess they are happy being a small company. Heaven help them if a Japanese company gets into the 6x6 ro 8x8 machines. Can you imagine the sales if Honda or Yamaha or etc got into the AATV market? It would blow Argo and Max away. Nice to have unique machines but how about a little better company support?

By Argo Kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I would like to know one thing. Why hasn't somebody cleared up this whole 6x6 vs 4x4 debate by actualy taking the top of the line models for each type of machine and do a side by side run? If this were doen in a magazine, or on a hunting show, thise whole thing would be cleared up.

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have done it with a bunch of the quads against either Max demo I have, Max II or Max IV. None has been able to go where the Max can go. I have tried to get both Magazines and the atv tv show to do it and they will not because they know the 6x6's will out do the 4x4's.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Because they are two different types of machines with different abilities. The quads (and snowmobiles) go fast on smooth terrain and anywhere momentum is the deciding factor, they win. Quads are individual transportation for road runners where speed is the "high".

Skid steers are agile,high torque at low RPM, able to go about anywhere at slow speeds, work horses.

Quad manufacturers would not put their machines up against skid steers in the environment that skid steers excel. At my old place, I had a real good obstacle course designed to show what a max could do (don't have a new one built yet at my new place) and advertised in the local papers,a: "Max Challenge". I had zero takers and whenever I gave a demo, I offered all quad owners the same incentive - No one ever tried my course. I guess $50.00 wasn't enough to embarrass oneself for (Lord knows I've done it enough for nothing but expense).

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I wrote my comparison a while back on the 6x6 vs. 4x4. I owned my Max II for three years and near the end of that time I got a Polaris Scrambler 500 4x4. Do a search and see what you think of the comparison.

By Argo Kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

What makes me mad is when quad people, ilke the ones who own Hondas, try to use this technology crap when saying they are better than the 6x6's, without thinking, hey I can't float, or carry six people, or even protect them in a roll over. You quad guys are dumb.

By Argo Kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

This is to Max rules. What do you mean by do a research? When you wrote your cpmarison, what did you come up with? Was the quad better that the Max?

By Argo Kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

To be honest, I think that it doesn't matter which machine you have as long as you enjoy it. After doing some research on the 6x6's, I have come to the conclusion that I have to have one. I really do belive that no quad could touch a decent 6x6, except for speed, but in all honesty, I would love to see the Max 900-T take on that Grizzly 660, and tear it to shreds. I think it could beat it. What does everyone else think?

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I said do a search for 6x6 vs 4x4 using the keyword option in the left menu. I'll copy my comparison that came from the maintenance topic:

I now own both a 6x6 and a 4x4. They are very different in just about every way possible. I think it will come down to what you really need the vehicle to do. The maintenance is a concern most people have, and the 6x6 does require more. The oil changes is no big deal except it can be difficult to keep your 6x6 clean because of the drain location. Then you have the oil change on the 4x4... and that is basically the extent of maintenance. I prefer 4x4s with grease zerks on moving parts such as those Polaris has. A few pumps of waterproof marine grease and those bearings and joints will last a long time. Most utility 4x4s are all shaft drive so there is no adjustment. Even on some sport/utility machines such as my Polaris Scrambler, there is only one o-ring chain that is easy to adjust.
The biggest downside to these 6x6s is the number of chains. Most have six and the Max II has eight. The Argos have standard double roller and the Max is available with single roller or o-ring. The o-ring last a lot longer with less adjustment, but they are terribly expensive to replace. It costs $120 to replace all the regular chains in my Max II. I buy them from John Deere. Along with those eight chains come sixteen sprockets. It is only a matter of time before those must also be replaced or they trash a new chain quickly.
The outer bearings are the most important part of keeping your machine in good working order. It is important to keep them greased. If they start to leak, they take everything else with them. Inner bearings, chains, and sprockets take hell when water comes flowing in. The Argo has the biggest advantage here because they have outer bearing axle seals on their machines. Max uses only sealed bearings which are not sealed for very long. Recreatives claims to have an outer seal almost ready for production so that may bring the Max up to par.
Amphibians are slow, easy going machines. They perform many otherwise difficult tasks with ease. They are great for work but are never in a hurry. I use mine mostly for trail riding and mudding. It is fun in tough terrain, but a different kind of fun compared to a 4x4. I bought my Max new in May of '99 and just recently bought my Scrambler a few months ago. The 4x4 is a whole new beast to tame and I'm really enjoying it. It has speed and power that I haven't felt in many years. It can zoom down the trails and slide around corners with perfect comfort and control. The suspension is awesome and we have flew more than five feet in the air at Little Sahara sand dunes. The 500cc 38hp high output liquid cooled engine can really rip.
The 6x6 and 4x4 have a lot of differences to say the least. The 6x6 is an old low tech design that will require more of your time to maintain. I won't say it isn't worth the extra time, but the 4x4 sure is a nice machine.

By TIM O'KEEFE on Unrecorded Date: Edit

A FRIEND OF MINE RENTED A TRACTOR TRAILER WITH A BUNCH OF OTHER GUY'S WITH QUADS FROM UPSTATE NEW YORK. THEY ARE GOING TO A DESERT ON MEXICO/CALIF BORDER. IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ALL SAND DUNES SOME OF THEM 5 STORIES HIGH. HE SAID HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE GO THERE THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY WEEKEND. HE SAID THEY DIDN'T INVITE ME BECAUSE I COULDN'T KEEP UP WITH MY 6X6. HE ALSO SAID THAT WE NEVER INVITE QUADS TO OUR 6X6 RIDES BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO FAST. HAS ANYONE EVER HEARD OF THIS PLACE IN THE DESERT?

By Argo Kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Max Rules, I will tell you what. I will take one of those low tech 6x6s, and go riding with you. When you end up sunk up in mud you couldn't walk through, or have to turn around because the trail is flooded, don't come crying to me. I am not wanting to start a debate, but it seems people with quads always use this technology crap to cover up the fact that an old outdated 6x6 can outperform their quad in most every area. Its the only thing you quad people can say. Try taking that 500 Yamahonduki with four people down the lake for a day of fishing, or try testing it to see how safe it is. With a roll cage, I would be twice as safe you, and who needs speed on rough trails anyway. I like simple, and so what if a max has to be worked on a lot. I don't mind taking out some time to keep my machine maintained. It gives me satisfaction in knowing that I am taking care of what belongs to me. You want to talk about mobility. Try spining that quad around from a stand still, no you can't. Having a zero turning radious can get you out of some sticky spots. You can just spin around and go, whereas on a quad, you have to back up and throw your weight into it, just to turn. I'm no trying to make you mad, but wake up and smell the greese. You quad people are scared. Sure you have suspension and speed, but other than that what do you have? The day I see a quad float down the river with a bunch of people, or be safe is the day I will call them ATVs.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Brandon, I thought you sold your Max in the summer because their was nobody to ride with??

You bought a bigfoot yet??

By Argo Kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

For my size(5'7 110 lbs.)and use of an off-road machine(casual trail riding, maybe some lake fishing), I think the 14hp Max would be fine. I'm not into heavy duty riding, or work, so I would not need much more power. Around here the hills aren't that bad, and we rarely ever get a bad snow, so I don't think I would need anything bigger. To Tim, the reason for them not inviting you, is because they don't want to admit that those quads can be outclassed. It boils down to this. When some quad guy uses that speed/technology garbage, a 6x6 guy alway has more advantages up his sleeve, like floating, skid steer, six wheel drive, and saftey. Do you get my point? They hate to admit that on paper modern technology sounds good, but in life, it means about as much as binoculars for a blind man. For me, I will always take something proven over something new. I mean how much more proven can something that has been kicking butt for 35 years be. Don't worry bout them quad guys. Let them go on thinking they are the best, and just find some 6x6ers to run with. Just rememeber that those quad guys will be the butt of many 6x6er's jokes anyway. To prove this, go and gaze at some pictures from those badland runs, and see how many quads are made fun of because they tried to challenge a 6x6. Honda, Polaris, and even Yamaha are victems of their riders stupidity and pride. If some quad guy lays that all "Argos and Max" get stuck easier" crap, just tell that when you all get stuck, its above the mud, not under it.

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

One year ago I would have agreed with you as most everyone on this board knows. I have rode 6x6s for many years including three with a brand new one. It was tough and reliable (only two breaks in three years) and was fun in groups with other 6x6ers. You have to go slow so you find terrain that allows slow fun. Mud and water is probably the most fun. I never got much excitement out of floating, to slow and I usually just end up full of water.
Tim, there are many very nice dunes on the west coast. Pismo and Glamis are some of the biggest and there is another up near Oregon. The reason they don't invite a 6x6 is quite simple. There is absolutely no way you could keep up or even have any fun out there. A 6x6 will not climb even a small sand hill, much less something more than fifty feet high. Three friends and I went four wheeling at Little Sahara last year. Who would have ever thought a huge sand box could be so much fun. This was the most awesome, unbelieveable, insane ride I have ever had. Racing up the side of a huge dune and flying over five feet in the air upon reaching the top. Out there in the sand it is fun to just go as fast as you can. I had my Scrambler pinned for a couple minutes just trying to squeeze every last bit of the 65mph it can turn. What a rush.
John Martin (a 6x6 friend from Deepwater and Badlands) rode with us on his 400EX. I'm sure he will tell you how the 900T performed the last time it was in the sand. People were really interested until they saw how it climbed... or how it didn't.
6x6s have their place and there is no use comparing to the quads. I think when people talk about better technology on the quads, they are talking about the engines, suspension, and overall construction of the machine. The biggest engine in a 6x6 is the 725cc v-twin Kohler at only 25hp. My Scrambler has a single cylinder 499cc engine at 38hp. Quite a difference for a smaller engine. That is where technology comes in. 6x6s rely completely on the chain and sprocket set up rather than moving up to shaft drive. 4x4s can have maintenance free shaft drive to all wheels with things as advanced as a CV joint! RI has never heard of such a thing.
The high tech suspension on my Scrambler allows me to fly down rough trails and land big jumps in total comfort. I've jumped my Max also. Although it's fun it is not very good on the back and neck.

That's my view after owning both machines and pushing each to its limit.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hi tim, shit in the open you can run hard in a 6x6, like whats to slow you down in the sand anyhoot? and an argos more stable than a quad so keeping them wheels down is easyer,
on paper mines faster than yours but you can shur kick up a dust cloud at speed, i lost my nerve while followng you down the trail unable to see more than 5 feet in frount of me at full speed, and only having a rough idea of your heading to guid me ,
heaven knows i couldent go on your engine noise at that time, maybe now i'd be able too tell if you have stopped in the dust cloud just in frount of me, only tim s has driven as long at that speed threw the dust wondering whare he was goin and who might be at a stop maybe just 6 feet ahead and invisable, but he did havew my engine sound huh,
well i hope a bunch of locle 6x6 and 8x8's crash there party and dust em!

By RickMoMoBigfoot on Unrecorded Date: Edit

TimO'Keefe, Glamis is the big one on thanksgiving weekend.You don't want to be on something slow there that weekend .I was there with a bunch of my buds on that weekend .We had hondas 250Rs 3&4 wheelers mixed.We thought we had rockets,but almost everyone there had builded to the hill machines,with sand paddle tires.You need to be fast to get out of the way.I seen lots of people get hurt,and more close calls.It was fun,did it once,don't ever plan on going back.I live near st.louis and man was that a haul to get to that place.I missed a week of work,and was sick of driving that far. Rick

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Brandon: You related an experience that I am interested in:
--------
"John Martin (a 6x6 friend from Deepwater and Badlands) rode with us on his 400EX. I'm sure he will
tell you how the 900T performed the last time it was in the sand. People were really interested
until they saw how it climbed... or how it didn't. "
-------

So why did the 900T do so poorly in the sand?

By Argo Kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Maybe they are not good on sand, but try taking those high tech junk bikes through some mud that I know for a fact has stopped many quads. Those things don't have the torque of 6x6s. You can't touch them when it comes to value. An argo can carry twice the number of people and cargo. They can flaot also, giving them the advantage in most areas.

By Argo Kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Tim, don't listen to him. If you have to go fast on something as dangerious as a quad, your crazy. When I go off-road, I like to go slow. Anyway, no person in their right mind would even consider comparing things like these, so I guess we're all crazy. I will tell you what the problem on here is. Most people on here talk BS, and that goes for Max Rules. He should do more riding than talking. It sounds to me like he is full of it. He probably couldn't drive a 6x6, and is mad about it. Thats what it sounds like to me. A good driver could get a 6x6 to smoke a quad in every area, and even speed if it were built for it. He has alraedy proven my point, as he has talked that technology crap like so many others. Simple is better anyway but only the blind can't see it. His scrambler has 38hp, but I bet it doesn't have the torque of a Max. It seems to me that his scrambler is geared high, and that means that is not going to have much low end torque. This is where the Max excels. It also goes to prove how each machine is made for different things, and people. Max Rules seems to like speed and death warrant signing thrills. As for me and many others, going slow and being able to see what's in front of you is good enough. Those quads have to be built to drive on the sand dunes anyway. No stock quad could do it. If a person wanted to, they could build a 6x6 to do the same thing. There we go Mr. Max Rules. Lets see someone build a Max to race the dunes, and then see how you like to be beaten. Quads will never kill the 6x6. Anyone interested in building a quad crushing 6x6 dune racer? Oh yeah, those pictures of quads being pulled out of trouble by 6x6's are cool. I like the one with the Grizzly being pulled from a mud pit. If that doesn't show you who rules the off-road, nothing will.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Okay, I will be the first looser to admit, I have sadly, but truly been pulled out of the mud by a quad. It was a very sad day in history, but I went in just a bit to far, and it got really sticky. The runnasucks couldn't grip anything because in mud, the mud just moves around. I don't know how any vehicle goes through mud, not even a 6x6 or 8x8 with tracks. Mud is slippery, and if the machine can't float in the mud, it aint going anywhere. Thats what happened to me, except, I was in water with a mud bottom. I just couldn't move. I find that even going in water where their is a silt area, I can get in, but it just won't go through. Their just isn't enough speed in the water to plow through the mud. Hence, I had to be pulled out by a bloodie quad.

By the way, I did manage to at least make it in the pond to begin with, the quad, lets just say it had to dry out for a while before it pulled me out.

By dave_p on Unrecorded Date: Edit

A quad will do somethings better than a 6x6. Speed is one of them.
6x6s do alot of things better than quads.
Rokons go places a 6x6 can't and vice a versa. Something doesn't have to be better at all things, it should be good at what it was designed for and what it was purchased for.

6x6s seem to be the best blend of getting just about anywhere, with all your gear, doing a little work, and getting back out as conviently as possible.

Go to Max Rule's site. He's an aatv head, he just has another toy in his fun arsenal. I like chasing hogs, and my Rokon can go down trails that an aatv can't, but for river runs, the Argo wins.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

WELL DAVID YOU WERE ON TOP OF MUD AND QUAD SINKS BELOW THE MUD, THAT STILL LEAVES YOUR 6X6 ON TOP

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David Berger, does that lessen the looser factor on my part?? The more I think about it, the stupider I feel. Just picture it, being pulled out of a swamp by a quad. Isn't that enough to make you sick??

By RickMoMoBigfoot on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Get a winch and pull yourself out.

By Argo Kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Maybe you did get stuck, but you were on top. That quad would just sink to the bottom. Yea I have been talking more than I should. I am really a calm person, and I know that no vehicle can go anywhere, but it just made me mad that people talk trash about 6x6's without knowing what they are talking about. Dave_p, you are right. Everything is good at what is built for, and I guess I should appologige to Max Rules, because I took him wrong. Here is my new way of thinking. Buy a Max, Argo, 4x4 quad, and Rokon. The Max and Argo because they are different from the norm, and have superior capibilities, the 4x4 quad for its smooth ride, and speed, and the rokon for its abilit to get through tight spaces. Everything really does have its place, but I wonder why people can't just go and ride with people who own something different than them? I get carried away when people put down something I like.

By Marc Stobinski (Jerseybigfoot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

A picture is worth a thousand words. Take the following link. www.towercitytrailriders.org/pictures/sunk4wheeler0002.JPG

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

It looks like that Yamaha was just unable to follow the Polaris up that hill. The water is certainly not deep enough to bother anything. I'd like to see a 6x6 climb a hill like that one. Looks like some fun terrain out there.

By Argo Kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

well if a quad can climb it so can a 6x6, but not some junk buggy, like the old 70's models. Maybe a Max 900-T, but who knows?

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

well david you went first,i'll go second. by the way as a truckdriver i can tell you for sure. "the first liar dosen't have a chance".when i got my bigfoot me and a buddy of mine went down to deepwater. i found a very inviting mud hole,water and all.running water in fact.so me being the adventurous type went for a swim.made it about ten feet when the bottom dropped out.goo mud has no mercy on the foolish.a couple of quads were following to see awsome argo do it's thing.when after about 10 minutes of rocking and no rolling,they offered me a pull.awfully nice of them.the first hooked on and all he did was wheelstand didn't budge me a bit.to make long one short,it took 3 quads to pull me out 1 was a4x4,then the all followed me to truman lake and i lost them there.that whole floating thing just amazes them. i did run into them later,one of the 3 was upto his footboards in a mudhole.so me being the guy i am watched as the mud coated tires of 4x4 tried to remove his bud,we splashed past them and offered them a pull.they gladly accepted. score now 1 up.since then i have upped the score by 4.and since i now have a winch i don't think the quads will catch up.i wouldn't mind owning a quad but right now i don't have a need for one.my bigfoot is plenty for what i do.whatever you got if you like it ride it 4,6,8wheels it don't matter just take it out and play with it,you'll be glad you did. mike/wetsu

By Marc Stobinski (Jerseybigfoot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

ah Maxrules ,no the Polaris guy was just smart enough not to go floating without his 6x6.

By Argo Luv on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I will admit that sometimes I get upset and start trashing quads, but that is only because the people who own them trash 6x6's and never think of their own mistakes and problems. It is always an ongoing battle, but really though, I think the reason why most people get on here is to learn about 6x6's. There are a lot of questions about them, and it isn't going to do a person any good if people get on here and start putting down Argos just because they have a differential, or a Max because they are tricky to drive. Nothing is perfect, and all of man's creations have problems. What is funny is that people get on here and talk like quads don't have imperfections. On the news, a few months ago, they said that Polaris was having a recall on most of their s because the breaks were going out at the wrong time, causeing s. This must have been bad, since they had to recall almost their entire line. You 6x6 owners should read reviews of quads, as they are always having squabbles over something they don't like, or something that needs changed or fixed. Before any of you think I am going to start quad bashing, I am not. What I am goign to say is that you 6x6 owners should stop and look at the other ATVs around you, and maybe the slight problems you have with your machines may not seem so big. After all, this thing with the quad was put all over the news. The things that have been problems with your 6x6's were not, so at
least you all didn't have to go through embarrasment or put downs from any anti-6x6er. I say this because most are looking for any good reason to throw down on a 6x6, and something like this would give them a field day. To tell the truth, it probably wasn't that big of a deal for the quad owners or manufacture anyway. Just enjoy what you have, and if someone is throwing down on it, then the best thing to do is to stop riding with them. I am saying this to all ATV owners, not just 6x6ers. I own a Honda CR80, and I love it, but after riding my neighbor, who put it down for its inabilty to do everything his quad did, or me for not buying one, I stoped going with them. This happen almost a year ago and I have not driven it much since then. I understand that alot of you probably feel the same way. I mean, when some person puts down your quad for not being able to foat, or downs your Attex for being old, and outdated, it does make you feel lousy. I am sorry to anyone I offended on here. Quads are great, 6x6s are great, and everything in the middle is great. Just get out there and enjoy the mountains. Peace!

By Argo Luv on Unrecorded Date: Edit

By the way, my name is no longer Argo Kills. It is now Argo Luv.

By HELLONSIXWHEELS on Unrecorded Date: Edit

WELL I HATE TO SAY IT BUT THE OLD "JUNK BUGGYS"
AS YOU CALL THEM WILL DO SOME PRETTY IMPRESSIVE
THINGS WITH THE RIGHT HANDS AT THE CONTROLS.
SOMETIMES THE OLD 2 STROKES WILL DO THINGS THAT
THE NEW 4 STROKES CANT.I HAVE BLASTED UP LOOSE SAND HILLS THAT ARE ABOUT 100+ FEET IN LENGTH AND
A FAIRLY STEEP GRADE IN MY OLD ATTEX 500 SC.ALL
MY MAX 4 WANTS TO DO IS DIG IN AND BURY ITSELF
ON THE SAME HILL.SOMETIMES YOU NEED SPEED AND
HORSEPOWER.

By Argo Luv on Unrecorded Date: Edit

What I meant by junk buggies, was al the cheapies what were built, and went out as fast as they came in, like the old rough riders. They may have lasted a year. I never meant the Attex, hustler, or scrambler 6x6s. I know those are good. I suppose I should have made that more clear. That was my fault. I like the super chiefs. How do they compare to modern 6x6s?

By John Martin on Unrecorded Date: Edit

In response to Don Abernathey (Dla) on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 07:27 pm question about the 900T Max IV in the sand. I live around Tulsa Oklahoma and go out to Waynoka Oklahoma (about a 4.5hr drive) in western OK to ride at Little Sahara State Park a few times a year. Its usually me and my buddies that make the trip on four-wheelers and three-wheelers back before we ever owned any AATVs. My dad had never been to ride out on the sand and after he got the Max II he and my mother took it out to Little Sahara and puddled around to check things out. It was probably one of only a handful of times that an AATV has been there. Out at this park it is over 1500 acres of sand dunes and sand trails wrapping around the park. He was able to drive around on the flat surfaces and trails and some of the small hills but in no way was he able to climb any of the moderate hills at all even with the tires tried in both directions. He would start up a hill and just bury down to the floor pan and have to back down and find an alternate route to get to the top. Out in the sand, wheel speed makes you king of the dunes. I have a bone stock Honda 400EX and I just put paddle tires on the back and have the time off my life but even I sometimes can get stuck (usually by not turnig back out of the attempt) on some of the tallest dunes if I did not have enough speed built up(knobby tires can be used but don't hook up enough to tackle the big dunes on short starts. On my dad's next trip he took the Max IV and tried it out in the sand, and again you could get around on the flat and could only go on a little steeper dune than the Max II could and that's just because of the increased wheel speed the IV has over the II. Another problem out there is if you want to go fast and make it up the big dunes you have to have suspension to control your ATV over all the whoop te doos (long series of bumps found mostly on the sand trails that have high traffic, they are alot like 1 foot washboard roads) that you have to ride over. Sixwheelers have there place in life and by no means are they a sand buggy no matter what you do unless you have suspension and big wheel speed you need a bare min. of 40 mph to make it up most of the tall dunes and 100mph dosen't hurt at all in the sand if you got it. When it comes to sand, AATVs are at most good observation platforms and conversation pieces. If your are looking for the time of your life almost defying gravity I suggest try riding in the sand on a sport ATV, a motorcycle if you're crazy enough But if you want to talk about mud ridding then its a whole other story for the AATVs. Use this link to check out some pictures and its highly recommended idea to wear a helmet http://www.waynoka.com/littlesahara.htm

By Argo Kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

You want to talk about lots of speed and wheelspin, get yourself an Attex. Those things were two strokes and could do neaerly sixty mph. I like quads, but those sport quads could never challenge a 6x6 in the mud, then again, the 6x6s were no good in the sand either. It does leave me asking, why. Why would you want to take a vehicle made for one thing, and try to make it do another? Still, what you are talking about, just proves one thing. Every machine was built certain terrain, and not all terrain, and the sport quuads should be left on the sand, and the 4x4 and 6x6 ATVs should be left on the trails. By the way, I looked at your pictures and it looked like you had a blast. One thing though. Not everybody lives near sand dunes, but most everybody lives near mountains, which is what 6x6 ATVs were built for. I'm sure if Argo and Max wanted a sand machine, they would build one.

By Argo Kills on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I did leave one thing out. Polititions want to ban off-raod machines, so everybody needs to get together to fight back. The federal government declaired quads unsafe machines.

By suvaman on Unrecorded Date: Edit

maxrules did u win the lottery? how do u afford all those toys at your age?by the way what happened to the guy that used to write all that bad stuff about quads? now u own one?

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

No lottery win yet but I'm trying hard. I suppose I just got a good start from my family and took it from there. I can save money like no one else and always find ways to make money that most people will overlook. I pass on the small items that most people waste money on so I can go for the bigger, more valuable items later.
I graduated high school last year and still work at Wal-Mart as I have through school for almost three years. I have my own candy vending business that is working out real well. I work part time punching a time clock and with the vending, I have lots of free time for fun. I still bring in more money than my friends who went to college and will be working 40 hours a week for 40 years in the same field of work.
I won't be settling for just that though, this year will bring the big one... more on that later.

The fine art of quad bashing has never really left me, it just changed a little. The Max is very unique and has capabilities you won't find in any other vehicle. I decided to give the quads a try one more time. This time with a Polaris Scrambler 500 4x4. I still had the 6x6 so if the quad was really that bad, I wouldn't be up a creek without a Max. The 4x4 joined my toy collection at the end of '01 and I've never had more fun in my life. It surpassed my expectations and quickly became the most thrilling activity ever experienced (yeah... ANY activity). I didn't, however, just ditch the whole 6x6 world. I'll probably get another Max when the riding picks up again and some much needed improvements are made to the vehicles. I got a new digital camera so I hope to get the action going again on my web site.

Hope that answers your questions!

MaxRules

By David Sanders on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Max Rules )
Glad to see you posting again Brandon. I,ve enjoyed reading your post in the past,,and much more in the present.

I have found them to be very intertaining, and also very enlightening about 6x6,s in general.

When I first started reading this 6x6 forum board,
I knew very little about either the Max or the Argo and,, how they differed in function,,when they were operated.

But,from reading your postings here for a year,,as well as others,,I have learned about the stregths of my Max IV.

Brandon,,with your skill as an operator, behind the sticks of a Max IV 25 hp,with 26 inch tires,, you would hard to beat!!

By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

"It surpassed my expectations and quickly became the most thrilling activity ever experienced (yeah... ANY activity). "


Boy, you need more activities or someone else to have activities with!

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David Sanders,
That last statement you made in your post.

"Brandon,,with your skill as an operator, behind the sticks of a Max IV 25 hp,with 26 inch tires,, you would hard to beat!"

You should of been to a few rides with him. He would do stuff with just a Max II 14hp that no one else could do. It didn't matter what you had, I seen him many of times go through a mud hole that everyone got stuck in. Hopefully Brandon will be back with us on a 6x6 soon.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Troy, that's the PSI on the ground thing I keep talking about. Brandon doesn't weigh much and he is willing and able to put his body where it needs to be. Yup, I think Brandon in a Max IV 900T would be pretty hard to keep up with - he would probably surprise himself!

By matt435 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Troy, have you thought about the dates for the spring,summer,and fall Attica rides? Please post early so everybody can plan time off work. Matt

By All ATVs on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I can understand why some of you 6x6 owners would feel the way you do. I mean, if some pretender to the throne, can't float ATV was hogging up the market that my ATV deserved, I would be mad too. The thing is, you all really shouldn't be mad at the quad owners because they buy what they are told to buy, and the companies just buld them to cater to those who just want to get outside and have fun. The truth is, it was all just bad timing when the 6x6 ATVs came out. If they had came out in the mid 80s, during the decade of excessive living, then they would be bigger, but they are not, and I don't know if they ever will. My brother now owns a brand new Raptor 660, and it is realy a nice machine. Now I know that it would never equal an Argo or Hydrotraxx for versatility, but it is an awsome machine, and it is what he wants in an ATV; a fast, personal machine that he can enjoy himself, and one that takes him where he wants to go, so he would probably not want anything else right now. He loves to go fast, and that is what it gives him. The point I'm trying to make, is that there is a place for everything. That is why different machines are built, and maybe we should all be having fun together, instead of fighting. There to many problems in the world, like war, for us to be fighting over stupid stuff, like which ATV is faster, or which one can carry the most people. Like said ealier, the quads are taking up the space that 6x6s deserve, but now is not the time to worry about that. the best thing to do, is for everyone to get out there and just have fun. If yuo are in an Argo, meet a person on a quad, then go and enjoy the oudoors with them. Don't feel threatend, if they start asking questions, just have fun and enjoy the world that the great creater gave to you. I bet id our soliders were home right now, they wouldn't care what ATv they were on, just as long as they were in a country where they could be free to ride and do what they want.

By newmax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

does the kohler 25hp bolt right into a 200 max 1v with 18hp engine

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hi newmax, yes and no, you need to look into the cluch end of it but yah it dose sit on the same position and mounting,(posably need new holes) you should beefe up that mount though to keep it from bending down twards the trany, some angle iron along the underside will do fine, thats what the factory dose and it is what tim schotanus
did for his worked over 23hp briggs
(now nayboring 35hp)

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Matt,
I haven't gotten all the dates yet, but It looks like right now Deepwater will be the first weekend in April and Attica will be the second or third weekend in June.

I was thinking of maybe having a ride down at Turkey Bay in June and only having one ride in Attica in Sept. What do you and the rest think?

I also found a place in Arkansas and another place in SW MO that is like the Badlands place and they both will give us a 50% off gate price and free camping if I can get enough people to show up. I am kinda waiting to see how the Deepwater ride will be before I commit that place.

By Eddie Beddingfield on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Troy, Please post Deepwater also ,I will plan on making as many as I can.Badlans is out I am not to impressed with it anymore after they butchered up the mud trails in the bottom. They also have some very rude people that work there. Eddie

By RickMoMoBigfoot on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Troy,I'm planning on making it to more rides this year than last.Mark and I love going to the new places.So we plan on going to lots of rides this year.Rick

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thank you all for the encouraging comments. Those were some fun years of six wheeling and I fully enjoyed pushing my machine to its limit. I'm glad everyone liked to watch the show. Luckily, I outlasted my machine so I will be adding to those years in no time. Even if the Max was a boring vehicle, owning one would be worth the money just to hang out with a great bunch of people I would have otherwise never met.
I will try to attend the six wheeling rides this summer along with a few quad buddies. It's hard to get my friends going but I'm ready anytime. The best is yet to come.

Liflod - I knew many of you would get a kick out of that one. I'll take your idea into consideration but I doubt any female would pose even a vague comparison to the almighty Scrambler.

MaxRules

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Eddie, I know what you mean about Badlands. They pissed me off at the last ride. I most likely will only have one ride there this year unless they can make it up when I am there the next time.

For the guys around Missouri, there is going to be a big quad ride at St. Joe's State Park in Park Hills, MO I think the last weekend in March. They asked if I and maybe some other 6x6's could show up. I was told that they have some wicked hills to climb now and more mud to play in. Anyone that would be interested in meeting up there, let me know.

By argoguru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

troy,
You ought to do a ride at hespin acres, it is only an hour futher, and you can ride anytime and camp were you want on the park grounds. Give it a try and see how it goes. you know I will be their. and better yet, no stupid helmets, roll cage or not.

By Michael Abner on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I need some help. About a year ago, I bought a two-stroke motorcycle(Honda CR80). At first it was great, but after trying to take it into the mountains, only to have it sputter and die, I gave up. I could never go off roading without kiling it out becasue I couldn't hit the hill right, or because I made some other mistake. It was embarassing whenever I would take it riding, and someone else would have to ride it out for me. I am thinking of buying an Argo or Max, but I am afraid I will have the same problems(killing it out on hills and rocky creek beds because of inexperience). Do I have anything to worry about? That was my first experience with motorcycles, and I don't want to go through tht kind of embarassmen again. I've never driven a 6x6, so I don't know what to expect. Can anyone help me out. I would be forever greatful.

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Argoguru,
I was going to go there last year when you had a ride there, execpt I had unexpected surgery a couple of days before. I do want to go there sometime this year.

Maybe only have one ride at the Badlands and one ride at hespin acres.

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

troy
get me some details on the st.joe ride,i'll come ride with you.i got my bearings changed,and about 6 ins.of snow soooo,i have already been playing.
went to deepwater last weekend,had a blast.it really sucked be ing broke down for 2 weeks.
me and another guy are supposed to go down to d.w.again this sunday.most of the snow should be gone.....so i'm looking forward to more mud.

By RickMoMoBigfoot on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Troy, I'll go to St.Joe that weekend and I'm sure that Mark would go too. I'll talk to him this weekend.

By newmax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

michael, you wont have to worry about stalling out on any kind of terrain. these are automatic machines and have good torque.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hi,Michael Abner
yes as said once already thesa are powerd threw tork converters and are automatic,
also geared way down for climbing, theres no garenteee however that you cant find something you wont be able to climb, but it will be easyer to learn as it's not like the motorcycle, on the motor cycle you needed to select the corect gear, ect.. not so with these, on some modles however it is sugested you make some basic mods to keep gas going to the carb on realy long and steep grades ahead of time so as to avoid stalling thoughs modles, not as tough as it sounds,

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Mike and Rick,
As soos as the quad guys tell me a set date, I will let you guys know. The last I heard was the last weekend of March.

By Michael Abner on Unrecorded Date: Edit

You speak of mods om some models. Which models would these be? Are you speaking about the old ones from the 70s, or the new ones, like Max and Triton Predator. I have looked at many of these on the internet, and they seem like good ATVs. To be honest with you all, I hate motorcycles. I have one question though. Would a 4-stroke motorcycle be any better, or the same as the two-stroke? One more thing. If anybody has some good stories about six-wheeling, please let me hear them. It doesn't have to be about pulling out a quad, or anything like that, just a good story about how good these machines are at getting you out of situations where anything less, would have failed. I know some of you have to have some good ones.

By Michael Abner on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I did forget to say one thing. Quad descussion boards are full of good stories, but this one is full of people arguing and fightng over petty stuff. It dosen't matter which one has a diff. tranny, or which one doesn't, but we need some stories on here. There just aren't enough.

By ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

HEY MICHAEL:
the "two cycles" engines used on legendaryes 6x6 where builded with more endurance and reability than the high performance/low endurance showed on your special edition honda "cr"...yamaha also make them on the "yz" denomination...kawasaki make them on the "kx"...all where desigded with piston and rings replacement at each 20 working hour on them!!!...........

By Michael Abner on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I just wonder why people call the old 6x6s junk buggies? Quads are no different. Arctic had to recall thier entire line of quads, because of faulty brakes.

By Joe Haser on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I wonder why they call them junk buggies also. In 1969 the Attex Corporation sent three machines to race in the Baja 500,one of the toughest races in the world! I havent heard of any present day manufacturers doing this.

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

oh troy..... still waiting to here more details on the st.joe ride.

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Mike,
Looks like the guys on the quads are not going to go to St. Joe park in March after all. We can still get a few guys and go. The Quad guys did tell me that they have changed some of the trails and we might like them more then before. Lets make it March 15th & 16th or the 22nd & 23rd. What weekend sounds good to you?

By RiderX on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Have any of you noticed the growing popularity of side x sides? There is new one out called a Rhino, and it is suppose to be able to hang with the quads when it comes to trail riding and off-roading. It has 12 inches of ground clearence, a 660 cc. engine and a good amount of speed. The way I see it, in five or six years, quads will probably have reached thier peak, and these machines will more than likely take over. all it will take is for someone to take off the utility bed, add some more speed, and there you go, the next big thing in ATVs. I've been looking in the ATV magazines, and I've been seeing a whloe lot of them lately. If any of you doubt me, just look back at the 3-wheelers and how they were around for many years, waiting for the momment to explode into the market. The potential for these machnes to snatch the market from the quads is there, its just going to take someone with the guts to get it done.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hey i like the rino but you need to make it float or at least add two more wheeles before id buy one, heh heh

By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I looked at the Rhino and the thing that caught my eye was the incredible 6 month warranty. I believe Max and Argo give a one year warranty and the engine has a 2 year warranty.

By jimbo21165 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

well, I have been reading this for about 2 years now. I was really interested in a 6 wheeler, until a guy in our hunting club brought one down. I have had Honda 4 traxs, atc 90's, 110's, 185s'...blah, blah. I bought a Yamaha grizzly 600 in '99, and haven't had one lick of trouble. i put a set of Vampire mud tires on it, and the 6x6 in the hunting club just can't keep up. We are in Looziana and Mississippi all the time, and we have found that a 4 wheeler and a good pirogue are the best for us. We don't get much snow....lol.... but for the mud we have encountered...river bottom to marsh....the 4 wheeler is the better machine. I have pulled my buds Argo out more times than I can remember. I swear, I always thought that a 6 wheeler was the baddest machine around, but all I can honestly say from personal experience is, they look great on a trailer or show room floor. I priced a Conquest today...13,000, and a Rhino...8100, a Rincon....7,000, and a Mule...8700. All funds are US. I think I will stick to my Grizzly. Way too many stories for my old fingers to peck at, and the spark plugs and battery are original!....Jim Thomas....New Orleans area

By jimbo21165 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

bring the 6 wheelers to looziana. Our 4 wheelers will kick some butt!

By jimbo21165 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I posted a couple of messages. I am always wondering why they have to pass through a moderator first. This is the only site that does that. I was very open minded and unbiased about the 6 wheelers, but this has me wondering. Seems like the 6 wheeler guys have something to hide if they don't have an open forum and let you post anything. Why would they have to approve a post before they "posted" it? Just a curious Cajun.....Jim

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Jim Thomas, The forum is moderated because Richard wants to keep it a family site and some people use language that would make a drill sergeant blush. Richard also refuses to allow anyone to personally attack another - you can certainly disagree without being disagreeable.

Now to your skid steer comments. Not all skid steers are created equal - balance of the machine, PSI on the ground and power to the wheels as well as tread pattern and size of tires makes a difference in performance. The most important ingredient in skid steer abilities is the driver's experience and understanding of how to make the machine do what is wanted. It sounds to me like maybe your 6x6 friend might not have the right machine and/or has not learned how to drive it yet. No one should get stuck (to the point they need help getting out) in a skid steer (at least a Max) more than a time or two.

You mention still having the same spark plugs and battery in your 1999 Grizzly. I can understand still having the same battery (I still have and know of several 1995 machines with the original batteries), but the same spark plugs? Come on now! how many hours of use do you expect to get from a set of plugs. Either you don't use your machine very much, or it is in bad need of a tune-up. I think plugs should be changed every 100 hours whether they need it or not. You can't expect top performance using worn out parts.

By don on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Jim:

You must be stupid, read the Route6x6 discussion boards
main page

Don

By Masteratver on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Jim;

To quote Richard:

This board is moderated by the ROUTE6x6
MODERATORS WHY? In the past we have had
major trouble with a few people, sending
spam, computer virses, using profanitys and
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board will remember this and those who did it.
Even though very few people were doing this
we had to start the board moderation. We do
not edit the content or delete mesages that
give wrong advice, if your message did not get
posted it either had above mentioned content
or simply "did not go through" Keep in mind
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simply resend the message!

WE WILL KEEP THIS BOARD SAFE AND
CLEAN FOR ALL TO ENJOY

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By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

mr.jim, you spoke of vampire tires on your grizzly........but you never said a word about the tires on the argo,hmmmm? or for that matter what kind of argo....hmmmm....or how long your hunting bud owned his 6er...
i can assure you in all honesty,6wheelers are not infalible,nor are they inferior.and as with any machine,2,4,6,8,18 or whatever.the driver is the one that is inferior,and prone to making huge mistakes.my point is...argo's and max's do get stuck,on occassion.i have been stuck.but i make it a point not to make the same mistake twice!and as far as your grizzly is concerned,,,,i have driven past them in the mud to getin front of them to pull them out!!!!
thanks for reading.

By bigkodiak on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Wetsu
I remember a night not all that long ago where we were pulling quads out all over the place. Yes, we did have some sixes stuck but not nearly as many as the quads.
I whole heartedly agree with you, no matter how many wheels you have you can get stuck.
Each machine has it's own personality just like every person. I prefer amphibs because they are family oriented, haul more cargo and are considerably safer. Compare injuries and fatlities on quads vs. in sixes by percenatage of ownership. Quads go fast, BIG DEAL.
Russ

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

russ,
one of my co-workers was killed on his rancher 4 months ago. and on 2 occasions at deepwater,troy,roger and a few of us riders from this post helped remove 2 injured 4wheeler riders from the trails.1 left in an ambulance!
but that is not the issue.if i read ol'cajun jims post correctly,he says the 4wheeler is the better machine.and for him,he maybe right.but for the rest of loyal 6er's we'll just keep on bragging about the many cool things we can do with our machines(or in my case used to do)and know that there will never be any comparision,to the 6wheeler,or 8.

By 6x6 dude on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a question. What about those powertrac 6000s? Are they any good? I mean, how good are they at climbing, hauling, and such? if anyone can help me, I'd apreciate it.

By Attex Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Decide for yourself. Do a search on this topic:

Route 6x6 Discussion Board: My Favorite Machine: Talk about you favorite ATV and Why.: Caution to anyone considering Power-Trac ATV 6000: Archive through September 9, 2000

It almost beat the creeking issue, or which is better, Argo or Max.

By joe-somebody on Unrecorded Date: Edit

All of this useless fighting over which one is better is really gettting old. I mean, sure between all the different types of atvs, there are advantages and disadvantages, but when it comes down to it, one isn't really any better than the other. They were all built for the same reason, and people should just get along and ride together. Of course the one thing I have noticed, is that when some of these quad guys see a person in an aatv get stuck, the first thing they do is start laying on thise crap about 6x6s sucking, even though they should know that driver skill is a big chunk of the puzzle. So to all the quad guys out there, they all get stuck, get over it and enjoy what you have.

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Joe-somebody,

In part I agree with you, and in part I do not. I agree that all of the arguing does not help anybody. However, I do not agree that all ATVs and AATVs were built for the same purpose. ATVs are built for speed and are comparatively compact. AATVs are good for people who have to cross deep water or run in snow. You can list the differences as well as I can. Depending on what you want to do with the machine, one or another will stand out as the best available choice. Your best choice may not be mine. If one machine were always best under all conditions, there'd be a lot fewer choices on the market.

By Joe-somebody on Unrecorded Date: Edit

What I meant about being built for the same thing was off-roading in general, not a specific thing. I should have been more clear, I'm sorry. I just meant that all atvs were meant for the purpose of off-roading, that is why I said that everyone should stop the fighting over who's is better. I also agree with what you are saying.

By Greg Wise on Unrecorded Date: Edit

My cuzin has a 500cc Suzuki QuadMaster with vampires.I have a Max 6x6 with gators, We half to cross a deep mud whole to get to our hang out, most of the time i'am having to pull him out with my 6x6 because week little 4 wheelers can't go as far as a 6x6.

By 4 wheelers SUX on Unrecorded Date: Edit

6 wheelers rule.

By Duck Man on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hmmmmmm... guess I probably don't need to interject anything here about what my 44hp Kubota powered HydroTraxx has pulled. It would kind of be like the apples to oranges thing :o)

By Bubba Hunt on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Duck Man,
Glad to hear you talk about your HT. Most of the time when I brag about mine, it is like I'm yakking out into thin air.I put one moose in the back and towed another up out of a muskeg bog that a lot of the others(that I've owned)would snap there little sprockets. I own a polaris 500 4x4 and it goes well in most conditions. I have a lot of fun playing with it and I've taken a bunch of critters while astride the thing.
Nothing I have ever had will pull a cord of wood on a trailer up out of my canyon, like the HT.You are right,discussing 4x4's and aatv's is futile.
Check out the picture of my Hydro-Traxx on my web site.
Bubba, shadowmountainoutdoors.com

By Duck Man on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Most of these guys out here seem to want to "bad mouth" the HydroTraxx. Can't understand why!?!? The HT really isn't a competitor for Argo or Max. The only comparison is that they all float. The HT has more power... more capacity... better performance... and much less maintenance than the chain drive machines. Yep... it's more expensive... but I believe in the old addage "you get what you pay for". I've heard some talking about the "danger" of hydraulics, i.e., heat, broken lines, etc. Well... can't say that I ever talked to an HT owner that has had any of those problems. But I've talked to plenty of Argo owners who cuss the constant maintenance required on their machines and the cost associated with that maintenance. Oh well... I guess they talk bad about the HT because the HT just doesn't have a big following. But you know... neither does the Lamborghini, Aston Martin, or H1 Hummer... yet you'll never catch me talking bad about them... hell... I drive a Dodge Ram :o)

Take care Bubba... and watch out for them grizzles ;o)

By Motown's (Bigwolf) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Bubba and Duck Man,

I understand and do relate to what you guys are posting and saying about the Hydro Traxx machines versus the smaller 6x6 and 8x8 machines. Keep posting and sharing your experiences about your machines, it is good information to know and learn about from you guys.

I would like to hear and read more about your diesel powered machine and how it has been performing for you at work and play!

For the time being my Max IV does a good job for my intended usage, even though I have been pushing its maximum limits in the work and hauling areas. I definately use the Max IV-950T well past its published maximum limits for general work. A bigger and heavier duty machine would probably be a better choice for me at some point in time in the future.

For general hunting and riding and medium to heavy duty work it performs just great. The general maintenence on the Max is much more than I had anticipated before I bought it, however, I deal with it. I probably keep it maintained much better than most people could even imagine. That is part of the game with these machines, if you want the confidence and knowledge that they will perform consistently every time you hop in and venture out, then you must maintain them properly!

By Bubba Hunt on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Howdy again old Big Wolf, good to hear from you. Glad to hear you are having good luck with your Max. I understand they are a fine machine and probably sturdy enough for 99% of all we use them for.Everything is faster than my Hydro-Traxx, but speed is not what I need in the kind of use I have. I need something that can tow a trailer with my camp in it, and haul a moose or two when I come back out of the swamps.I don't live in very forgiving country, and a break-down could kill the old kid.Most folks need a pick-up truck, and I need a dump truck. I have dump-truck requirements.
I get a kick out of the way some aatv owners try to compare the HT to the others.
You are right!! Maintenance is EVERYTHING! I don't have that much but it is a pain to pump out the hydraulic oil each winter to put in the thinner oil.Takes about an hour. Most climates would not require it but at -30 to -60, it is necessary up here.Besides changing the engine oil, that's about all I do.
I work the heck out of the HT.It pulls stumps, tows trailers full of wood,plays hard and is very reliable. My neighbor has only one leg due to a head-on with a drunk driver. His other leg is so messed up that he can't use it much. You can see that walking-out isn't an option.
I have that much confidence in the HT.
Bubba www.shadowmountainoutdoors.com

By Motown's (Bigwolf) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

At some point in time in the future, I will probably end up buying a Hydro Traxx machine. I like the idea of the reduced maintantance required, and the added benefit of a big heavy duty robust machine for heavy work. I would probably lean toward a diesel powered rig! I like the thought of having more than enough power to do just about any thing with power to spare!

I will probably always have the Max IV for general all around hunting and riding usage. Both Max and Argo's are good machines for that type of usage.

I think your comments are correct about the Hydro Traxx machines as compared to the Max and Argo's. It is best to seperate the HT away the rest, and put it into its own heavy duty application catagory. The HT is designed and built to indure a savage and bloody beating on a daily basis with miminal maintenance requirements.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I'm probably one of those whom is accused of bashing the Hydro Traxx. I don't think I bash, I talk about specs and facts. My complaints about the hydraulic machines are listed below.
(1) weight and PSI on the ground (most heavy machines use the same tires as the lighter machines do and until tires get wider, the lighter machines will have an advantage in going where flotation is important. Same thing with tracks; heavier machines need wider tracks if they are going to have equivalent PSI on the ground numbers.
(2) the fact that engine RPMs have to be high to get good performance. Engine noise is an irritant to most people and if you need to wear ear protection, that is a negative. When hydraulic machines work at 1/4 throttle, they will be more accepted.
(3) ground speed - none of the skid steers are speed machines, but 12 to 15 MPH is just too slow if you do occasionally travel on smooth terrain.
(4)concern of hose failure. I have had hoses fail on both tractors and my bobcat skidsteer. I was told by a hydraulic expert that one should change their hoses every three years if they are concerned about hose failure. Changing hoses and fluids adds much to the expense of ownership. Not many chained machines need to change chains every three years and my guess is hoses are almost as expensive as chains are.

All machines have their pros and cons, I just think the lighter machines that are able to go more places are more practical for the majority of skid steer owners. If the Hoot ever gets in production and holds up, it will be a great addition to the skid steer world.

By Bubba Hunt on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Poor old Fred, he just can't seem to keep his biased opinion to himself. By now he should have learned better than trying to compare house cats to mountain lions. Yeah, I could say some real hurtful things to him but I'm too kindhearted to do it.
I just like to encourage everyone who has an aatv, and cheer them on to be happy with it.I have run onto a couple of folks in all of my 61 years that get "locked up" on things. I have learned not to even waste my time trying to "un-lock" them. It says in the GOOD BOOK, that a man whose mind is changed against his will is of the same ipinion". So I waste no more of my time trying to change someone like that. I would bet that most of the folks who read these postings are a lot smarter than has been given credit. I also think that a lot of folks who would buy one of those kool little Max's, won't do it because it has been shoved down their throats too many times.As a little kid I learned to never take a poodle to a pit-bull fight.
Bubba,shadowmountainoutdoors.com

By Greg Lawrence (Greglawrence) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Same with a boat. Heavier boats require more power to go faster, and draft deeper. More hull, thus floatation, helps.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Bubba, I'm sorry that you feel facts and spec sheets are biased opinions. I'm not just talking about your favorite, the Hydro Traxx, I'm also talking about the Predator and the Land Tamer and any other "heavier than some" skid steer type machine. Actually, the Predator is probably the best of the heavy weights because it has the engine in the middle. Ever tried a predator?

By Timothy Schotanus (Mudbuster) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I remember a ride at Humphry where a centaur was the ONLY machine to go through one of the mud holes without getting stuck. It may have been slow,loud,and heavy but it didn't stop.

By Motown's (Bigwolf) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Listen Fred,

There is just no possible way that you can compare a Max to a Hydro Traxx machine. The two types of machines are in completely different catagories. I have more than enough experience with many types of equipment and power trains and design criteria and specifications to know the differenence.

If your hange ups are with weight distribution on the ground "PSI", it is simple enough to just install dual wheels on the Hydro Traxx and that alone would reduce the ground pressure in half. In fact the dual wheels on the HT would probably exert less ground pressure than a MAx II. You would also have more traction than you would know what to do with! I do belive that the Hydro Traxx has 2" wheel axles, which makes it even more ideally sutied to run the dual wheel configuration.

As far as a wide track kit for snow, it would also be simple enough to make a set of tracks as wide as you want, using reinforced multi layered neoprene conveyor belting, cut to what ever width you desire.

Regarding the engine RPM needing to be high for good performance, with hydraulics and pumps that utilize a high quality variable displacement pumps, you have tremendous power at any RPM and smooth control through out the entire power range. A 6x6 machine on wheels does not require much force to get it rolling and keep it rolling.

The Hydro Traxx machine that is equipped with a turbo charged deisel engine looks like it has plenty of ground speed on the video. It looked to me like it runs faster than 12 to 15 MPH!

I would expect that you will get much more than three years usage from a set of hydraulic hoses, even if they are a mid grade quality. If a set of very high quality wire mesh reinforced hoses were installed, I would guess they would easily last ten years before they required replacement. The primary reasons that hydraulic hoses fail and or hydraulic fittings leak, is due to dry rot, rubbing and chaffing, being physically cut, or they are not secure and strapped down properly and are allowed to move. There are many types of hydraulic hose available that are manufacured to handle the types of abuse that I have listed, and yes they cost a few bucks more per foot. And there are hydraulic fittings that are just about leak proof when applied and installed properly.

I am not sure just how noisy and load the turbo charged deisel engine runs, with out taking one for a demo ride to find out for myself. I can say that the Max IV with the Kawaskai engine is not exactly whisper quiet at half to full throttle either.

The Hydro Traxx in my opinion looks to be a seriously heavy duty machine as I metioned in prior notes. It is designed and built to handle very heavy duty application on a daily basis. The Maxes and Argos are much better suited for the light, medium and medium to occasional heavy duty applications. Yes many of us can and do over load the Maxes and Argo's way beyond their specified limits, however, doing so just wears and tears away at the drain train over the course of time, which will only cause premature failure of the drive train components.

By Bubba Hunt on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Fred, just for the record, I like Argo's, Max's, LandTamers, Predators and I think the little Hoot is cute. I also like most of the others. Now find some fault in that!
Bubba

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Mudbuster, Yes, if there is a bottom within reach and the top stuff is liquid enough to let the weight reach the bottom, a heavy machine will go through where a light machine will not. That is also true in snow; a big guy on a quad will go to the bottom and get traction where a Max (or any other skidsteer with a wide flat bottom) will be supported by the snow and be bottomed out with their wheels spinning. Likewise, a little guy on a quad probably won't be able to break trail like the big guy on the quad. Its just the reverse with our machines. A little guy (all by himself) with a machine as light as possible will go better in mud with no bottom or deep snow than the heavier machine fully loaded.

The Hummer is a perfect example of what I am talking about. With its big tires and heavy weight, it will go anywhere it can reach the bottom, but put it in deep snow or quick sand and it will be just as stuck as any other conventional wheeled vehicle.

Big wolf, I don't mean to compare machines except for where they are able to go with a reasonable load. You will get no argument from me that some machines are heavy built (and can carry a heavy load), but I don't necessarily think that is an advantage. I think that as long as they are serviceably sound that extra weight is a negative. I realize that all machines do not have to work in the same environment and if flotation is not important, why be concerned about it?

Duals are not the panacea that some think. In gooey mud, I think they are a detriment because the goo gets between the wheels and inside the rims adding many pounds of weight to the vehicle. If one is just on soft ground, they are a great help, but not in the mud or the snow.

Again, as far as width of track is concerned, I agree with you, but the options the factory sells or approves is the basis we should go on. Most anything can be done aftermarket, but usually the factory design is what one uses to base purchase decisions on.

Having run tractors and Bobcats for many years of my life, I can tell you that the constant hum of an engine can get on your nerves and affect your hearing. I agree with those who think noise pollution can be a problem. I don't mind being heard for a couple hundred feet, but I don't want to be heard for a mile. Hoses do fail, usually at inopportune times, when they appear to be fine (I was told that it is the heat and the pressure that cause failure in a hose that looks perfect - hence the reason to change hoses). I think hoses in critical machines (like airplanes) are changed after so many hours. Of course you can go longer and maybe be lucky for ten years, but if your life depends on the machine, I for one would be for changing my hoses before I got stranded.

Bubba, I don't mean to ever be finding fault with anyone (I most likely will find fault with what one says or writes if I think it stretches the truth). If I remember right, our first conversation started because of the comments you made about everything that wasn't a Hydro Traxx. I think you tried to put down the Max and Argo and every other machine you had ever seen or tried. The product I sell is a product that I chose after much research. It has served me (and also many of my customers) well. Everyone is free to buy and use what they want. My purpose on this board is to combat (disagree with) what I feel is unfair or untrue comments about my favorite machine and to help other Max owners solve whatever problems they might have; beit operation or maintenance. I do like a good verbal joust and if I can use facts to win an argument, you can bet I will! I try very hard to stay civil and stick to the point.

By ACR on Unrecorded Date: Edit

A word about hydraulic hoses; I work on a fishing trawler that has all hyd. deck equipment the hoses are subject to the extremes of overheating,full power-to-stop repeated thousands of times,the vessel runs year round in extreme cold and heat,some of the hoses are submerged in sea water agreat deal of the time.It is not uncommon for even a singlewire hose to last 7 or 8 years with good qualty hose lasting 10 or 12 years.Most often the only thing that destroy ahose is corrosion when the protective casing is compromised or the fittings on either end rust ,if this protected the hose will last a longtime.We have hoses in the engine room that are 20 years old and still work fine.So maybe this more than A word but if the hoses are looked after and the machine is not driven in sea water i don't think the hoses will be an issue.I live in northern British Columbia and have two older ARGO machines an 8&a6 anyway THANKS happy wheelen tracken etc,

By Bubba Hunt on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Fred, my old jousting partner, I guess that I like to streeeeeecccchhhh the bragging on my old HT about as far as I can. I'm not a dealer. I know it is a waste of time trying to "unlock" some one who is "locked-up or rusted-up".
I wonder why I can pack a 1000 lb moose through swamps that I can't walk through? Don't even dare to tell me that you have worse swamps than we do, although knowing you, you probably will.You act like I have never driven one of your light-weights! Ya know what? You sound much like a dealer who is running scared about sales. I guess from all of the negative things you say about "all others", you must feel like it is important enough to keep cutting down everyone else's machine. Why is that?? Why can't you let everyone enjoy what ever they have and let it go at that, instead of showing everyone how scared you must certainly be.
Yeah, Fred, I am sure there are a lot of happy Max owners out there. Kool!! I have an idea that there are a lot more happy argo owners. They are the ones with the market and with good reason. Argo has a fine machine at a good price, and they have been around a long time. If I were to lay awake at night, I believe it would be because of the argo fellers.
You would probably do well selling used cars. Maybe you should look into it.If you need any pointers, let me know. I have never sold any, but I probably could come up with a few good ideas.( Sell the small cars, they are much lighter on the road, and don't sink in much.)
Bubba www.shadowmountainoutdoors.com

By dt5428 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well Fred I have worked on airplanes for twenty years and as far as I know none of the planes that I have worked on have hydraulic lines that are tracked by time.Most of the lines that we have on our aircraft are rigid lines but we do use flex lines in many areas.As far as heat build up goes we have temp bulbs that monitor the heat and when we have heat build up in the hydraulic system it is usually from a pump going bad.So once again I don't buy all of your ideas.I would be willing to bet most of the failures on your hydraulic lines are poor quality,been altered,abused or work hardened. I could be wrong and this is only my opinion. Once again I do like the Max and I own an Argo Conquest with super tracks. I don't take a whole lot of stock in numbers I am a show me kind of guy.I have worked to many problems on aircraft that an engineer has worked through the numbers(Which never lie) and all should be correct but it does not work. Fred I would say you need to get someone out there with a Max,Argo and Hydro Traxx and play follow the leader for awhile letting each machine take the lead and end this discussion once and for all.

Later,Dan

By Bubba Hunt on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Motown, I think we are going to have to lighten up on old Sower. I wouldn't want the old feller to have a problem with his blood pressure. I done my best to console him into getting into another line of work like maybe selling argo's. I'm sure he would be a lot happier.I hate to see someone "taking on" so much. Must be painful. I think it would be nice to sell Max's and Argo's on the same lot. Just look at the variety, maybe even through in a Hydro-Traxx for all of those who like getting stuck.I don't get stuck very often. I wonder why that is?? I know that I "can't use these facts to win an arguement with", so I'll just drop the suject!Good old Horse Sense goes a long ways in operating equipment, and plain old H-S goes a long ways in making a lot of folks sick of hearing about it.
Bubba www.shadowmountainoutdoors.com

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

OK guys, I'll stand corrected on the hydraulic hoses. I guess all the broken ones I have had are due to faulty product or abuse. They have all been on IHC or Case tractor loaders and Bobcat skid loaders so quality probably is an issue.

I do get amused that some get so worked up over my comments. Must be a raw nerve exposed there somewhere.


By the way Bubba, I thought you were going to send me your champion BSer's belt. I cleared a place for it on my trophy wall and had an ID plaque made out of brass in your honor (people read the plaque and it always starts a conversation with lots of good laughs - probably wouldn't be near as funny if the belt were actually there). I don't worry much about sales, and I certainly don't loose any sleep at night about anything.

By Bubba Hunt on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Fellers, I have hooped and hollared about how I don't get stuck much in my old HT. Well, I just went outside in the dark and measured the bottom. I have about 10-11 inches of ground clearance with my 28 in High lifters. The bottom skid-plate is 40 in wide and 84 in. long.Since it will float, I never sink in much more than a couple of inches on the bottom, and that much drag on the bottom doesn't seem to hold me back. We all know that we can sink in to the bottom fairly easy, so we all will be sliding along on the bottom whether we like it or not. I'm not that much heavier than some of the others that seem to think that I am so heavy that I sink in and get stuck. The fact of the matter is I do sink in too, but I have a lot of bottom floation, and I don't sink much more than that.I know a bunch of you will grab the old calculaters and start figuring out how much floation I have so I'll give it up so you won't have to . It is 3360 inches square. Now if my machine weights 1300 lbs, and I don't think it does, then my bottom has about .386 psi on the mud.That is one heck of a big foot print!! With my 12x28 in tires or my tracks, you can see that my over-all floation, or ability to "SINK", may in fact, be a lot less than some of those "light weights".All I know is in a peat bog, which is peat moss and water, no matter if it's 10 feet deep,does not stop me. It's like trying to push a big old bath tub under the muck, and it isn't easy to do that. Top that off with wheels that can be reversed or power added to one side or the other, I don't get stuck much. If one side boggs down I just add power to that side, and if I need to turn, I just add more power to that side. I don't have to "brake"either side to turn in the mud, I just add a little more power to the side that is sinking.I can also stop and back-up in a split second just by pulling back on the handles. I can back out of places that might cause me problems. Once again, I DON"T GET STUCK MUCH.I'm probably not right on any of this, but in spite of some mud experts who have me stuck all of the time.I run the swamps in some of the worse boggs on earth and I still will say this.Gentlemen, this old swamp runner spends very little time wenching his lazy old butt out of mud holes.OK, go ahead and jump all over old Bubba, he's only been swamp running since 1970.
Bubba www.shadowmountainoutdoors.com

By Motown's (Bigwolf) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Fred I understand and can appreciate that you have a great passion and dedication to the Max products. I also understand that you want to discuss factory specs. and factory supplied accessories only. However, you can't loose sight of the fact that the factory specs. can be improved upon with special custom aftermarket modification like dual wheels and wider track kits. It works the same way with any tyoe of wheeled vehicle people buy. Many do customize their equipment to suite thier specific needs and applications, and that applies to off road trucks, 4x4 quads, and AATV's

I do believe that you underestimate the added value of dual wheels on an AATV though. I have discussed this subject with a guy up in Alaska that has run dual wheels and a combination of wheels and tracks on a Max IV. He tells me it works very well in either configuration, in the swamps and any other terrain. His biggest problem was that it wears out the bearings and bushings much quicker. A Hydro Traxx machine is probably much better suited to run dual wheels.

As far as hydraulic hoses and components, if high quality materials are used and they are applied properly for the specified temperature, pressure, and so on, they will not fail or require replacement for a long long time.

Hey Bubba, I will give you a phone call when I have some time available to talk about moose hunting. I found your phone number on your web site. I still need to buy a copy of your new book also! We started bow hunting for white tails this month, and I am headed out the door again in the morning.

Hey Dan, when are you guys leaving for Colorado for your Elk hunt? I figured you were already gone. Give me a call and let me know how the trip went when ever you get back!

P.S.
I just bought one of those polyethelyne plastic molded atv pull behind trailers from Otter Outdoors. Hopefully it will arrive some time next week, so I can use it for this years hunting season.

By ryan on Unrecorded Date: Edit

what is the corret foot used when braking an automatic transmission car the right or left foot

By Preston B on Unrecorded Date: Edit

the right foot is your correcet foot
why??

By John Cochrane (207.69.138.204) on : Edit

I have used many different AATVs over the years. I have owned 2 Hustlers. 2 Argo Conquests and now have a Hydrotraxx w/ a 32 HP Kubota Diesel. It is used to haul duck hunters into a big marsh in Texas. Not to play, or race, or do wheelies - just work - every day of the season. There have been several other AATV operators in the marsh over the years and we have seen many types of machines. All machines have to have tracks here or they will go about 20 feet and stop. MAX didn't make the cut, not enough ground clearance to go back through the ruts. Parks and Wildlife biologists stuck their Rolla-Gon! The Argos were most popular. With tracks they did the trick, but the maintenance costs were very high. We ran two Argos daily and had to rebuild them every other season. 8 Chains, Chain tighteners, springs/pads, sprockets, 16 bearings, 8 seals, brakes, axles. $2000+ per rebuild adds up. The weight of 5 to 6 hunters with guns and dogs was very hard on them.
Then we found out about Hydrotraxx. All the high maintenance items on Argos are gone. No chains, transmission, bearings, seals, brakes, centrifugal clutch etc... The body is solid fiberglass, not plastic. The frame is heavy duty, much stronger than Argo. Diesel power, no electrical problems. No hydraulic hose failures. Hydrostatic steering is so much better than primitive skid steering, it's not even close, especially with tracks. I have been running this machine now for 5 seasons with very little maintenance. You may spend more money up front, but it is worth it in lower maintenance costs and performance. You're not going to win any races, but solid, reliable performance is what I need every day. The Hydrotraxx is great, not a toy like the Argo, but what I really want is a Marsh Master.

By David Keeso (Argomag) (170.224.224.153) on : Edit

John, I don't know exactly how they compare from a weight perspective, but how does the hydrotraxx and argo compare in that field, which is heavier and what are the main differences you notice between the ARGO and hydrotraxx in terms of how the macnine runs in various conditions (putting maintenence costs and running costs aside)

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) (216.166.168.53) on : Edit

Well John Cochrane, Each to their own when it comes to a vehicle of choice. How wide of a track do you use that lets a Hydrotraxx walk on water?

I can understand your disappointment in Argos and Hustlers but I don't know why you have to slam Max with a falsehood at the same time. If you really tried a Max and found it wanting, it certainly was not a current production machine. There is no doubt in my mind that if the Hydro Traxx goes at all that a Max with the current rubber belt track (1998 or later) would have absolutely "no problem". PSI on the surface (beit mud or snow) is what determines how well a machine will go and unless you have a two foot wide or wider track on your Hydrotraxx, it will not go where a Max will.

We all know the Hydrotraxx is a heavy, well built machine that needs very little maintenance and will double as a hot tub (we read Bubba's posts), but the jury is still out as to how they perform against the "light weights". Maybe you will weigh your machine with tracks on ready to go out. All we need is the total weight of the machine and the length and width of the foot print (contact area of the track) and a little math will tell the world what the actual PSI on the ground of a Hydrotraxx with tracks is (it is a deep dark secret at present). I don't understand why, if the Hydrotraxx is such a great performer that there aren't more of them out there. It's kind of like the Argo in Montana - there just don't seem to be any. To be fair, there aren't very many Max either, maybe a hundred, but that's about a hundred more than anything (maybe everything) else.

By Bubba Hunt (67.118.246.62) on : Edit

John, it is good to see someone else bragging on their Hydro-Traxx.I tried it a few times and almost everyone jumped on me like a bunch of old biteing dogs.I suppose that is a bit long...most of the aatv'ers all took me with a grain of salt. However, the "Dealers" couldn't stand me bragging so much and howled. They always tried to throw in the "weight" issue. That left me scratching my head. I, as you have no "weight" problem.
All of my aatv pardners have argos, most have traded in the "light weights", not to mention them by name, or else the Old Geezer will bark at me again.
I do my best to encourage all of the "Brothers" who have aatv's, and hope they are happy with what they have.
I, too, have owned most of them. I'm releatively a new comer to the "off road" world. I bought my first cushman trackster in 1970, and have gone through a lot of the others since then.
I haul and drag moose, camp gear,other broken aatv's etc.I have found that the HT is the only machine that I can't BREAK!
I know that most of the Brothers don't have a need for something as burly as the HT for all of the running and playing that they do, and that's kool.At my age( I think I'm older than my old friend Fred), I would rather ride down into the bogs and haul out that 1200 lb. moose than try to hope that an 800lb.light-weight would get the job done without breaking stuff.
Don't waste your time trying to explain how that the old "heavy" HT goes through the mud and bogs as well as it does. I don't fully understand it either. All I can say is... it never sinks below the bottom of the machine, and the bottom is wide and long. It just slids along like a big sled. In other words, it has a ton of floatation with that big bottom, so it doesn't seem to get bogged down.
The tracks are enough for mud, but deep snow is a problem unless you have the wide tracks.
You can see my HT on my web site www.shadowmountainoutdoors.com. While you are at it check out my new book, www.thewildernesstrail.com.
I'm in San Francisco right now getting ready for an interview on KCNS-TV tomorrow, and then back to Alaska.
Drop me a line at oldbearhunter@alaska.net, and we can talk about HT's without upsetting the Brothers.
Bubba

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) (216.166.168.53) on : Edit

Bubba and John C., Feel free to talk about your machines right here. I don't think anyone will pick on you UNLESS you stretch the truth. Now Bubba, about that big bottom (on your HT), it has been my experience that the wide flat bottom is a disadvantage except in the water. Whenever I am in stuff that is too thick to swim through and not thick enough to hold up my machine, I am stopped with only my tires moving. That is the reason I always approach gooey stuff slowly. I try to determine if I can get through before I try and if I can't go forward, I stop and back out before I am stuck (of course, in a Max I have the engine and most of the machine's weight behind me). I still say it is only the tires (or tracks) that provide flotation while driving. I'm glad to see you own up to the fact that deep snow can be a problem for your machine. And not to start an argument as to who's bogs are boggier, but if the tires (or tracks) can't support the machine and its weight, then the machine is stuck. The lighter the machine and the wider the tires or tracks, the more likely the machine will get through on its own power. I realize that lots of folks don't think the numbers matter, but the laws of physics are "laws", not "suggestions". The weight thing can be important; if you fellas don't have a problem, that is great. All I'm saying is that if a Max can't go, then nothing else (similarly equipped) can go either. And if the conditions are right, a Max can be the only machine that will. I will agree that some machines will carry more than a Max, but when the machine starts out heavier and you add more weight, one has increased the limitations of the machine, not made them less. What is the advantage of being able to haul more when while doing so you have limited the places you may go?

By budman (209.115.67.76) on : Edit

All I can say Is my Grifton 380td Hovercraft can Go upstream on rapids, broken ice on lakes even rocks and debris and has a payload of 837 lbs land or water and transports 6 people. and speeds up to 25 mph. Hovers are a truly go anywhere vehicle and they don't trample the enviroment like atvs do.
So quit the shameful posts. I am glad there are motorcycles, atv, snomobiles, boats and aatv people that love the out-of-doors as much as me.that way there will be public land and water for everone

By John Cochrane (207.69.136.200) on : Edit

Answers to questions.

- The Hydrotraxx is a little heavier than the Argo because of the solid fiberglass body, wheel motors and diesel, I think around 1500 lbs.

- Maintenance costs aside, both will go equally through our marsh, the Argo is faster, the Hydrotraxx manuevers better and handles weight better. Far more breakdowns in the marsh with Argo. Broken chains, broken bearings, axles slipping out of bearings when turning with big loads (skid steer).

Well, Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer, I am not slamming MAX or anyone, I am telling you what has taken place in our marsh over the past 10 years or so. The hunting club that hunts the land next to us, which I was also a member, was made up of about 12 members. It's expensive to join and therefore most members can afford AATV's. I have seen Cushmans, Coots, Grizzlies, Six-Wheel Polaris w/ back-tracks, Max, Argo 6, Argo 8 and a few others I didn't recognize. After a few years there were about nine Argos there including our two. Some brought Max's out, but they didn't stay. Maybe they have changed now, I don't know or care, they are two small and lightly built to carry the loads I do. The main problem with the Argo was finding someone to repair them and the cost involved to do so. I've helped alot of the members get parts and fix their machines. Chains are a pain. Dirt and mud find their way onto the grease and eats them up. One guy failed to keep his lubricated properly and we had to cut the chains out with a torch! Hydrotraxx was the answer to our problem. The landowner sold the club land and the club closed just as several members were going to buy a Hydrotraxx.

-My tracks are about 15" wide conveyor belt with 1X2" Poly blocks bolted on. We got tired of fighting Argo track pins.

-As far as deep dark secrets, I don't know the psi exactly, I would think somewhere around .5 lbs/sq in. Weigh is not everything, Fred, traction is also a big factor. Tread style and track style make a big difference in mud. (I have seen pictures of snow, it's white, right?) The rolla-gon that got stuck was actually too light with it's floatation tires. The tires would just slip and spin. It didn't get stuck down in the mud, it was high, it just couldn't move because the tires would just spin, with no traction it couldn't get a good enough bite.

- I don't know the numbers of max's, argo's and hydrotraxx's. I do know alot depends on advertising and marketing. That's probably why Max is so popular in your area, Fred - you're there. There is a lot to be said for having a dealer near by to buy parts from and service your machine.
In our area we had seen maxs from magazine adds. Argo actually has a dealer in Houston, but they mainly cater to commercial customers. No one had ever heard of Hydrotraxx and most people still don't know what it is.

- Hydrotraxx was the brainchild of the late Brian Johnson who took Argo's concept and improved upon it. It was a small factory with little advertising nationwide. Brian was killed a couple of years ago on a hydraulic lawnmower that flipped. The company has kept going, but is now moving and owned by one of Brian's employees.

- Bubba, you use your HT to haul loads like I do, so you understand the need for a strong machine with low maintenance, thanks for the post.
Capt. John

By BigWolf (136.1.1.33) on : Edit

John,

Great write up! I would like to know more about the conveyor belting and poly blocks that you are using for your track kit. Sounds very interesting to me, specifically the poly blocks for the side guides. What durometer is the poly block, and what shape are they cut in, and how are they bolted on?

I asked these questions because I plan to make up some home made tracks also using conveyor belting. I have a couple of different types of conveyor belting materials on hand, and was looking at a couple of different ideas for the side guides.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) (216.166.168.53) on : Edit

Hey budman, How does your machine go over logs, sagebrush, big rocks and through gulleys? What is the sound level of your machine? Most hovercraft are pretty much flat land machines. How much of an incline can you conquer?

By John Cochrane (207.69.137.205) on : Edit

For Big Wolf -The blocks are made of white polybutalene, 1" X 2" square. They are bolted through the tracks with SS bolts and attach to the tire guides.

-No comprende "durometer".
-The conveyor belt is about 3/8" diameter and is connected by a 316 stainless splice made for conveyors.

I originally came to this website to see if I could locate the manufacturer who made my tracks. I have lost a couple of side tire guides and I need to replace them. They are not Hydrotraxx or Trutrax tracks. When we bought our machine, Brian knew about these tracks and supplied them for us. We added the poly blocks. The tracks originally came with a 1/4 " raised tread pattern. If anyone out there knows the manufacturer's name it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Capt. John

By BigWolf (68.40.23.217) on : Edit

John thanks for the information, I now understand better how your tracks and side guides are constructed, "Comprende Amigo Gracias".

It sounds like you have used the poly blocks to stack up under the side guides for added side guide height!

When I mentioned the term durometer, that is just another way to talk about the hardness of the poly block material.

If you are in need of some replacement side guides for your tracks, you can try contacting the owner of Superior Off Road ATV's in Michigan.The owner's name is Tom and his partner is Les. They have their own cast Aluminum side guides made so they can make and sell their own track kits. They are basically the same size as the side guides that the manufacturer of the Max makes for their tracks. You can find their web site on the links here on Route 6x6. One of the Max dealers should also be able to order you some aluminum side guides form their factory also.

By budman (209.115.67.76) on : Edit

To Fred 4dotranch.com/ A.K.A "Mudslinger Max" If you read my first post you would know I am tired of the P****** Contest. But if you are really interested in a quality hover. Go to griffonhovercraft.com/ Fred I was not able to get specs of the max from your site(216.166168.53)your Ip code. Some people Fred are cgeeks and offroaders Or www.4dotranch.com/ or www.maxatvs.com/ but maybe RI will incude that in the brochure by snail mail.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) (216.166.168.53) on : Edit

Sorry budman, I didn't understand most of your message. I did go to the griffen hovercraft site, but it is a little short on specifics. Didn't see any pictures in the mountains. I do like the concept. What did your unit cost?

For specs on the Max, You can use the link form my site and go to the factory site. Click on products, then click on any picture. Specs for each model and the accessories are pretty complete - except for tire options.

By budman (209.115.67.76) on : Edit

Hey Fred Are you the "Jack of all trades" and master of none. I Live in MI and for a quick geography lesson there are no mountain ranges in MI.And state is surrounded by the great lakes making it a penninsula And another interesting fact on longer than a 15 miles to the nearest body of water no matter where you live in MI. Also when I was last in the MTN's in Kentucky you had to watch were you went because if you tresspased were the had their moonshine stills they shoot first ask questions later.Also why would you assume that a weld shop would have a arbor press to staighten a axle mostwelders would heat a bang with a hammer.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) (216.166.168.53) on : Edit

Yeah, budman, I'm a "jack of all trades and a master of none". My comment about inclines was "not malicious", but an all terrain vehicle has to be able to climb. Why not just answer the questions? How much of an incline will a griffon hover craft negotiate; how much did your hover craft cost; and how noisy is it (do you have to wear ear protection land does everybody run when you approach)?

Good welding shops here in "old backwards Montana" have presses or access to one. I suggested using a press (straightening cold)because it is possible to get it 100% straight that way and retain the axle's integrity. If you heat up the axle and bang with a hammer, aside from not having it 100% true, you will remove the temper and if one tries to re-temper, they will become brittle and break.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) (216.166.168.53) on : Edit

Yeah, budman, I'm a "jack of all trades and a master of none". My comment about inclines was "not malicious", but an all terrain vehicle has to be able to climb. Why not just answer the questions? How much of an incline will a griffon hover craft negotiate; how much did your hover craft cost; and how noisy is it (do you have to wear ear protection land does everybody run when you approach)?

Good welding shops here in "old backwards Montana" have presses or access to one. I suggested using a press (straightening cold)because it is possible to get it 100% straight that way and retain the axle's integrity. If you heat up the axle and bang with a hammer, aside from not having it 100% true, you will remove the temper and if one tries to re-temper, they will become brittle and break.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) (205.188.116.14) on : Edit

bud a press dose the very best job on axels,
posably im MI welders don't know about presses
maybe the machine shopes have them.
also posable the montana welding shopes fred has mentioned are fabrication shops, a cross betweem machine and welding shops,(not very backwards)
im also qurious about your hovercraft,
i have 8 houres of videos of hover in's with alot of craft, they still look a bit pathetic on anything but rivers or lakes, they defenatly rule over the water, and conveniant to park on any (flat)shore,
most will deffen you for life too!
(and this concern from a dedicated 2 stroke running fool such as i)

By budman (209.115.67.76) on : Edit

To dave. If you read my post "To Fred" I said that most welders heat and bang. Most collision or repair shops have presses for bearings A machine shop would also have the ability to put the axle between centers and take a dial indicator to guage trueness I 100 percent agree a press would be the way to go and it also would not take the temper or rockwell hardness out of the axle I did not say a hydrolic or arbor press was not the way to go. Also Dave you can re-heattreat steel unless you were to burn up all the carbon.

By ee (64.229.171.40) on : Edit

eee

By roadwolf (64.229.171.40) on : Edit

budman, you want to listen to david and fred. you might learn something!

By budman (209.115.67.76) on : Edit

AS far as "Quad bashing" or "Jack of ALL trades" Or his wall @ his Max dealer shop for "BS champion belt holders" If it's not a "MAX" than it must be an inferior ATV mentality.