By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Is this some sort of a secret club? Where are the pictures? And, NO, I don't want to have to buy somebody's video to get an idea of AATV performance.

By argogeru president of the argo/max cult on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don,
Yes, we are, more of a cult though than a club. once your in their is no getting out.
buying a video from john is the only way to get an idea of an aatvs' performance unless you go and ride with somebody, and thoughs' are the first steps to joining us...

By roadwolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

no dla, this is not a secret club. we do everything out in the open. older pics are on none other than the picture part of this site. yes, you do have to pay $$ to buy videos,...cause john s, david b and RC have to pay for their cost's

By John Dooler on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi if you just want to get an idea of AATV performance there are lots of pictures in the picture gallery. Including some from Humphrey rides from earlier years. But if you are specifically interested in this years humphrey ride I don,t belive that $15 which incudes shipping is much to ask for a Video that is over 3hrs in length. I have paid for a copy and I'm expecting it any day in the mail.

By David W. Bryant (Davidbryant) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I agree!!! I purchased my video from John last week and am waiting also AND I DON'T EVEN HAVE A MACHINE YET! I purchased mine so that my wife and I could get an idea about the AATVs as our nearest dealer is over 300 miles away.

Why complain about a piddly $15 bucks when most videos these days go for as much as 40 BUCKS!

Go ahead and look at the FREE pictures and the rest of us will watch our $15 video with enjoyment and give thanks to the authors and videographers that give up their time during the rides and events to video the events.

David Bryant
Arkansas

By onerttam on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I live out west , and chances are I will never get a chance to do the ride. However I would like to get one of these vidioes. Please tell me the info on purchasing one . Thanks

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

well onerttam, you can get nice videos from ither john schwab or myself,
there both $15.00 and if you get hooked on them
you will find we both have many titles to chose from,
ordering from john:
john schwab
11003 bennett state rd
forestville ny 14062

or myself:
david berger
daves atv videos
214 bent st,
franklin,ma.02038

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Max's and Argos never climb hills according to the pictures on this website. They don't climb over rocks or logs either. So I guess both machines are only useful for playing in mudholes or floating in a lake.

I never see a picture of anyone carrying a load.

I never see a picture of a tug-o-war with quads or trucks.

I have a hard time imagining that I'm going to see anything on a Humphrey's video other than traveling down muddy fire roads.

Let me help you think this through another way: Have you ever seen anybody try to sell a video where they didn't post pictures to give the buyer an idea of the content?

I suspect your video is a fine piece of camera work, but it is really only of interest to those who were there and want to have some memories.

I live in Oregon. We have real terrain out here. I'd like to see what these machines can do. There isn't a dealer within 300 miles of me. I could find Fred's place up in Montana faster than I could find knowledgable dealer out here.

Please post some pictures.

By ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

HEY DON:
sorry to disapoint you but i purchased ( well as a matter of fact swap new bearings!!)at least 6 vhs video from david "plasticmaster" berger....i found on them max's bufalo carrying plenty lumber, plenty argos and maxes climbing hill, lumber,and many many interested related stuff that i highly recomend to purchase at least one video from him....don't forget to include a bottle of "syntetic tears drop"...you will need it baddly since once you start to watch them you won't be able to blink your eyes!!!!........really a full action videos!!!!..by the way i used my maxll to survey my surface mining project....so it's a fact that at those machines climbes hill and rocks!!!!!ofcourse that you should drive slowly due to shock absorber less construction but anyway catching speed on those terrain condition will be only a good reason to cause injures.......

By John Schwab (Johnschwab) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi Don- In one way you are correct. I have never seen a video produced for AATVs that are solely to demonstrate their capabilities. My videos are of AATV events and show these machines in the recreational form.Les at Superior ATVs in Michigan produced a video that shows these machines plowing snow, carrying deer etc. Perhaps you could contact him through the RI website. I'll bet that someone has produced one for Argo also, although I have never seen one.
As far as posting pictures to give you an idea of what you are buying,please try to remember that we are discussing a video that costs a whopping 15 bucks including postage to your door. Besides that I clearly stated to you in your original inquiry about pictures that I do not possess the equipment to send images on-line.
As far as my videos being a fine piece of camera work, sometimes they are and sometimes they are not. What they are is a HOBBY that brings pleasure not only to me but to the hundreds of people that have enjoyed them over the years. Yes they are mostly memories that are mainly of interest to the people that were at the event and that is exactly what they were meant to be.
As far as "real" terrain you can't beat Oregon for scenic beauty, but it doesn't matter how high the mountain is ,it is still the angle and surface that matter. We have plenty of real terrain here in southwest NY and NW Pennsylvania where I mainly ride to push any AATV to its limits.
Most people are skeptical about the abilities of these machines just as I was. You seem to have many negative attitudes about AATVs. You will need to spend some time riding with some folks to either clear them up or confirm them. With the right operator at the controls AATVs are a lot of fun and will do a lot of work. I hope no one ever catches a 6x6 in a tug-of-war with a truck on video. Those kinds of foolish activities are best left to the Quad crowd. 6x6ers tend to be not of that free-for-all mindset.
Good luck in your search for demonstration videos

By John Schwab (Johnschwab) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi Overtamm-You can contact me about videos by email at jsschwab@localnet.com or simply click on my name above. If you don't have email contact me further here. I have many titles available it all depends on what you want to see.

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

don,
Again, their is several pictures already on this discussion board, and stop being so damn cheap and buy a video. buy the 2002 april video and watch the orange 8 wheeler in the big mud hole known as ramonas hole. that hole is passable only by an aatv. mudbusters max 1V also passes with ease through it. I will not even respond to hill climbing and hauling loads ( three deer and two adults). sounds to me like you just want to complain about something you now nothing about. maybe you should go see fred, and get some understanding what your dealing with, pictures wont do it.. drive one of these machines and all your questions will become silly.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Seems to me that when one thing goes, more goes right along with it. On the other hand, when you fix those parts they last for several more years.

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

argogeru: I'd love to go for a ride. Why don't you take a vacation out here in Oregon and bring your machine.

I've never seen a Max or an Argo out here. We have tremendous public land access for off-road usage. Everybody owns either quads or motorcycles. I've seen a Polaris Ranger at a Polaris dealer. There is only one Max dealer listed in Oregon and he's over 300 miles away, with no inventory to play with.

Fred's dealership in Montana is 800 miles away, but since I used to live up there I can always call it a vacation and stop by. At least I know Fred knows what he's selling.

You guys on the East coast just don't seem to understand. Maybe its the air out there.

Please post some pictures. At least post some pictures of hauling your deer and gear. Something other than another muddy road. We have plenty of mud out here.

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

ok,ok,ok.i haven't bought a video either,instead i bought an ARGO.they gave me a video for free.
you can watch all the videos you want,but if you want to know what these machines are capable of,spend 8,grand and see for yourself.
don't get me wrong i'm not here to dog anybody,it took me along time to decide for myself.back then all it took was watching the BANANA SPLITS, when i was a kid.then about two years ago,i checked into both the MAX andthe ARGO. i chose the ARGO.and now if i want ican make my own videos.
i am still new to this game,but i'm trying to learn. i have climbed rocks,trees ( fallen of course )the ones that were standing i mowed them over. rocks are a little tricky,but some can be conquered, others will conquere you.
if you don't want to buy 1,find someone who's got 1, and ride with them,make a video and enjoy.....
mike

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don,
Go to my website, www.maxatv.com
Look in my gallery of pictures from the past few years of rides that I put on. I haven't been able to update the site with this years pictures, but I do have some pictures of hill climbing, mud, water and hauling. If you have any questions, just contact us by email.

By matt435 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don, You won't spend $15.00 for a great video... But I payed $65.00 for a can of Tera Tiger Tonic?

By John Schwab (Johnschwab) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

This is starting to sound like "Creeking in a Max"!!
Matt- What the heck is Terra Tiger Tonic?
Geru- Don isn't being cheap, he just doesn't feel that he will see what he is looking to see, and he probably won't

If I were in the video "business" perhaps I would put together a utilitarian-type video to show the useful capabilities of AATVs. Sounds to me that this is something the factories ought to consider.But Maxs and Argos are used mainly for recreation,so that is their prime target market Once when we we riding Quads up in northern Ontario two men were working on a powerline using an Argo 8x8 which was piled high with tools and equipment. I had never seen one before so we stopped to talk and these guys said they loved that machine. If only I had snapped a few pictures..... RI recently sold machines(40 I believe)to the US military for use in Afghanistan.
Several years ago at Humphrey we used a Buffalo truck to haul all the firewood for the bonfire as well as the equipment used around the firehall. It did a great job and then went out for a fun trail ride!!

By John Schwab (Johnschwab) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

To ArgoGeru-I lost my secret cult decoder ring in the swamp, please send me a new one

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hey,
matts 65 dollar can of tiger tonic is the nicest and only can I have ever seen, what a buy!!! buy a stinking video don, this is getting rediculous, 15 bucks, so what?!?!

By mr. tinker on Unrecorded Date: Edit

pictures of sixwheelers dont really show what they can do. they make it look like its not a difficult situation when in fact it would be for another machine. when you ride or drive one they give you a certain false sense of security because of their ability to go over things with relative ease.all my friends that rode in mine thought that every place i took them would be difficult when it was easy.if you could just drive one i think you would understand a lot more than what we can tell you.

By ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

HEY MR. TINKER:

your point it's absolutely true!!! my maxll get thru easily where my montero with very agresive and fat tires can only dream to go....i remember a proud owner of a 4x4 toyota pick-up fitted up with 13.50 x 33 agresive pattern tires get stucket when try to follow the max over mangroove land
and the reason it's simple....lower psi (yeah..the "fred factor"!!) due to less overhall weight spreaded over move tire surface..and the full traction capability....not to mention that when turf get wet it's just floats over!!!!....

By matt435 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

John,
Terra Tiger Tonic is the oily green stuff that keeps your Tiger purring like a contented cat.

Back whan Allis-Chalmers sold the terra tiger 6x6 they had 2-stroke motors. The terra tiger tonic is the 2-stroke oil sold by the dealer. I bought a can of of terra tiger tonic in great shape on ebay for $65.00

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hey john , what were you doing in the swamp,that you lost you ring??????

By John Schwab (Johnschwab) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

That ring has the access codes for my winch remote control as well as opening the cult photo archives.

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

john,
Your ring is in the mail!

By roadwolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

dla, i agree with argogeru, do you want us to take up a collection for you to purchase a video?

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

geru, can i have one of them rings too???
i am an FNG. but i want to play too. so can i huh huh plllleeeease.

By robnwan on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don,

Where in Oregon are you? I am a dealer in No. Idaho, carry a nice selection of inventory and have demo machine's. I guarantee that up here in the Selkirk, Cabinet and Bitteroot mountains that we have real terrain.

Oh, and if you have a quad and want to hook it to the back of one of my machines and see who drags who around, we can do that too. Who needs a video when we can do it live.

We are 20 miles south of the Canadian border.

Robert

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

robert please remember to have your quad pull video taped, send to me and i'l publish it!

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Robert: I live in Hillsboro, about 15miles W of Portland. I've just about given up on AATVs for the following reasons:
(1) I can't find any information objectively reviewing Max's, Argo's and high-end quads.
(2) I'm aware of potentially one dealer about 40 miles away. Otherwise nothing for a zillion miles.
(3) Apparently the only thing AATVs are good for is playing in the mud. Nobody on this forum either wants to or knows how to post interesting pictures of AATVs in action in something other than mud. They seem to be most popular back in Pensyltucky where a "mountain" is about 100ft high.
(4) Lastly, both Max and Argo seem to be overpriced lawmowers. I doubt I would change my opinion until I took a test ride with an experienced operator.

You need to hook one up to the back of a pickup and have a pulling contest. Do the same with a quad. Video and/or photograph both. Post the pictures. Climb a really steep hill (45 degrees) from a standing start both with a 4x4 Quad and an AATV. Photograph and post.

The fact is that AATVs are a very big purchase to make on such skimpy information.

By the way, I grew up in Montana (Missoula) and I've been in as far as Cedar Log lake (Montana side. Upper drainage of Fish Creek). I've walked over the border to the little lake on the Idaho side. I've also hunted out where Fred lives, about a 1000yrs ago.

Don

By robnwan on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don,

I would be happy to demo for you if you come this way. I am not interested in wasting my time so if you are objective and are looking for answers then I am willing. If you are just a basher then go elsewhere.

I hope your search for the right machine yields what you are looking for.

Robert

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Robert: Before the stock market crash in late 2000 I had the cash to purchase a machine. I spent a lot of time trying to research Max and Argo. I actually got to see a Max one time at a sportman show in Portland. The static display was better than nothing as at least I got to see how they are constructed.

Now I'm an optimist. I'm pretty sure that the markets will recover. But I'm not so sure anymore that an AATV is worth the extra money over a good quad.

This is a nice forum. But I don't think it is reasonable to expect this forum to provide the advertizing that the manufacturers are reluctant to do.

Thank you for the offer.

By robnwan on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi Don,

I had many stock options in Qualcomm, still do even after I retired so I know what you mean. I know many people who were paper millionaires and went and bought up things no matter the cost and are now suffering the consequence.

I believe that the recovery will occur as will the recovery of the AATV to prominence:-)

Here it is. You will always get an opinion from an owner that loves his machine be it Quad, motorcycle, snowmobile or AATV. I think that many here have said that a Quad has it's use and many own both but the objectiveness won't come from Quad people or AATV people as you are looking for.

Only you will be able to determine for yourself if it is right for you. Look at you desired use and see if it is what you need and if it is not that is fine it does not make it inferior or bad.

For me, a man with a family who does not need speed and wants to travel in the mud snow mountains and water an $8,000.00 Quad won't do it. I would need 4 $8000.00 to meet about half of my needs. Why spemd $32,000.00 when I could spend $13,500.00 and have a machine with tracks, cover, winch, cargo carrier, ROPs, carry my family and go where I need to go.

This is what I need and the investment is good. If I were 23, no family, lived by some dunes speed was my main goal then I would probably have a Quad. It boils down to what you want and need.

This is a good forum but remember it is an AATV forum. Go to a quad forum and see how objective they are. I hope you get the right machine and if it is an AATV I would be happy to help out.

Thanks, Robert

By Chris M. (Argomaster9000) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don, in response to your posts..

First off, it's true that there is very little information about the Max and the Argo and how they compare to eachother and to quads. People are willing to purchase AATVs, but look for information about them from experienced owners, like the users of this forum. I'm sure that if you took the time to read and gather information based upon these posts, you'd be able to make a sound decision as well. Ultimately, it's people's experience that counts, not what some "reviewer" says about something. There is no substitution for experience.

Second, yes, there are not very many dealers for these machines, particularly because there is not such a great demand for them as there is for quads.

Third, these machines are not JUST for playing in the mud. It's just one thing they're good at. Honestly, I have NOT yet seen any pictures of quads playing in 6' of snow, have you? I've seen a quad rider playing in the lake with his quad, but rest assured that it was unintentional (it just kind of "fell" in the water, never to be seen again). I've seen people hauling a sh*tload of cargo with their AATVs over terrain that quads only dream of going over.

As far as hooking one up to the back of a pickup, that is quite possibly the most uncomparative method of information gathering I've ever heard of. That's like asking: Let's see what happens when a 600CC Grizzly is hooked up to my 3500 RAM, dually, Turbo Diesel? Or perhaps in another comparison, why don't we just race your Pinto against my 800HP Supra? Get it? It's comparing apples and oranges. I DO agree with a photographed and/or videotaped pulling match between Argo and Max or Argo and quad or Max and quad, or even a climbing match. Those can be reasonably compared.

One more thing... This forum isn't about advertising for the manufacturers. It's about AATV owners getting together to share their knowledge and to inform the general public about these machines. It's because of the lack of dealerships that web sites like these are created so that we can educate EACHOTHER, which ultimately creates a sense of community and encouragement among us AATV owners.

If it seems like an ad for the manufacturers, then so be it. I'm more than willing to show off my machine to anyone who wants to see it, likewise for just about everyone else here.

PS - The market will recover. It's not the end of the world. Whichever your choice may be, I wish you all the best of luck on any purchases and that you're happy with your new toy! :-)

By Bill Davis (Nvbigblue) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Chris,

Good point about the comparison, but I have a comment on the tug-of-war issue. You ever watch tractor pulls on T.V.? They don't pull against each other....they pull a drag sled. That would probably be the best way to compare different machines. Neutral ground (groomed sand, dirt, etc.), neutral task (exact same sled, adding the same amount of weight/friction to each pull).

Just my 2 cents. :)

Bill

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The tug-o-war idea has a purpose: a comparison that people can relate to. So I would suspect that 6 or 8 tires on the ground/asphalt with reasonable power would out pull your average pickup easily. So do it, photograph/video it and post it. Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

By robnwan on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks Chris, you are right on. I was trying to be helpful without engaging in a useless debate about hooking up end to end with a truck or have my machine of choice demeaned by calling it an over priced lawnmower. It is a waste of time.

I do intend to however do exactly what Bill has in mind and videoing it when I get the chance, time and a willing Quad. Very good idea. It won't be as good as a moving sled but more like a pallet with bags of concrete or something sililar.

I will let you know how it turns out when I do it and in the mean time if anyone else has something they have done please share.

Thanks,
Robert

By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

How the hell would a 1000lb machine with 40 lbs/ft torque out-pull a 3000lb truck with 200 lbs/ft of torque? I know alot of people exagerate about their machines, but I have never read anything on this site so ridiculous about a Max or Argo out pulling a pickup truck.

By JESSE VOIGHT (Voight24) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

250 horsepower truck vs. 18 horsepower aatv
Only a Idiot would think of trying this.
Lets get real and maybe even relevant to the subject.

Don contact me and I will send you the Argo Video that came with my response. Its short and safety minded but may help.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Yes Don, to expect a 14 to 25 hp machine with a deadweight pulling limit of about 1000 pounds to out pull a machine that weighs five thousand or more pounds with 150 or more horses is a little over the edge. My guess is most any skid steer could pull that pickup (in neutral) on level ground.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

LIFTLOD I THINK THEY LEAVE IT IN PARK AND SEE HOW FAR THEY CAN DRAG IT, HEH HEH HEH

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

My 14hp Max II out pulled a 2wd Ford Ranger. It's not the power, it's the traction.

By Chris M. (Argomaster9000) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Liflod,

That's my point exactly, and I think based on the response that people agree with me.

Don, you're right with your idea, but based on what it sounded like, it looked like you wanted to do a pulling competition between your quad and a pickup truck, which I (and others) thought was quite unreasonable.

Anyway...

Bill, you're right about the tractor pulls. So for those of you who want to try pilling some dead weight, try hauling a big fat log around. That would fit the theme of off-roading in the woods. HEHEHE! Or make a raft-type of sled out of logs and load it up with boulders and try that.

Photograph/videotape the results and tell us all about it. I too would like to know how your 6x6 or 8x8s fared against the weight. :-)

By John Martin on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Bill Davis--That reminds me of this last summer. My dad is really involved in antique tractor pulling contests all around Northeast Oklahoma and the surrounding areas, he even went to Mississippi once for a pull. Well it seems like a bunch of the older tractor pullers have grandkids that want to pull to so they came up with a garden tractor class for the younger drivers or the young at heart who enjoy pulling the garden tractors instead of the bigger tractors, they are a lot easier to transport as well. We don’t pull the garden tractors but before the big tractors pull at each event they always start with the little garden tractor pulls using downsized version of the big tractor pulling sled so we thought it would be fun to do an exhibition pull with the Max IV 900T and just see how it would do. We changed the tires around in the normal direction (opposite of how they usually are for swimming) just to make sure we’d have good traction. It was a site to see, some of the garden tractors are really no longer garden tractors but highly modified motorcycle engine powered little pulling tractors that don’t cut grass anymore. When all the kids saw my dad in the Max IV hook up to the sled they went wild, he let three or four of them in for the pull and he ended up with a Full Pull out pulling all of those hopped up garden tractors with ease. I wish I could have gotten pictures to show everyone but maybe we can do it again. The Max diffidently out pulled those little tractors with ease showing that six wheels work a heck of a lot better than two spinning. I just thought I would share the story since you were talking about pulling sleds. It sure put a smile on a lot of kids face that day!

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

liflod: A 6 or 8 wheel drive vehicle has a great deal more traction than that of a 2 or 4 wheel drive pickup. The torque available to the wheels of an AATV is or should be 10X that of the motor rating.

Therefore I think the tug-o-war is reasonable.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

HEY DON I REALY DO THINK YOU COULD FIND SOME OF THE ANSERS YOUR LOOKING FOR IN THE VIDEOS AVAILABLE,DAVID SANDERS BOUGHT I THINK ABOUT 10 OF THEM AND STUDYED THEM VERRY CLOASLY,
HE DID FIND OUT PLENTY FROM THEM,

By mark harding (Promoza) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey brandon i can uderstand pulling a ranger hell you could use a Sears craftman lawn tractor to do that but i'm sorry your super boy hook to a bigger truck like a 1/2 ton ford or chevey

By Ford on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Some local gentlemen in my area came up with a tractor-pull type sled to be used for "ATV" (Quad) pulling competition. Once I saw the posters advertizing the pull, I showed up with my Conquest. (It was more of a sled test than a competition.) They had managed to stop everythig there up to and including a 500cc 4X4 Polaris when I showed up. When they saw the Conguest, they added additional weight right away but I still made a full pull. They then added more weight and I made a second full pull. As they added yet more weight, the owner of the sled made us stop as he thought I might break the sled. When I inquired about the date of their first competition they let me know they would not have a class for me and my Conquest. Boy, I had fun that day.

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

So now that you rocket scientists see that the tug-o-war is reasonable, when are you going to try it, video/photo it and post it?

By Chris M. (Argomaster9000) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ford,

I love your story. HAHA! You know what? You should've taken some bets that day. I'm sure you would've made a nice buck or two! It's always really nice to hear these types of things.

By David Sanders on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Ford )
I bet there sure were some wide eyes in the audience, that day, at the sled pull! I,m also sure, that the 4-wheeler riders could not believe what they were seeing either! Great story !!!

By mike s on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don, since this rocket scientist didnt put all his eggs into the stock market, I did purchase a aatv. If you had a aatv or a atv of your own, would you be as axious to hook it up to a pickup? When and if you buy either one, I will supply the logging chain and the pickup. Pink slips will be just fine with me. A four-wheeler has a softer ride and can go faster than a aatv. That is it. I know this from riding with them. They are different machines, one is not better than the other, just better at certain things.

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

mike s: Why as a matter of fact it wouldn't bother me one bit to hook up to a pickup and give it a try. I really don't understand why folks are so afraid - unless they fear discovering that their very expensive AATV is a gutless wonder. A tug-o-war doesn't have to be destructive. Recording it and posting it would be much more interesting than the look-ma-I'm-driving-in-mudhole pictures.

By mike s. on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don, simple fact- no quad, Max or Argo is going to out pull a four-wheel drive full size pickup truck. They wont push as much snow for the same reason-weight. A atv with a weight of seven hundred pounds,torque at 32 pounds and a towing capacity of 1300 pounds with one psi cannot compare to a seven thousand pound truck with 455 pounds of torque with four wheel drive. They may have some power and traction, but they will lose traction due to lack of ground pressure. That is why guys would put traction bars on their high performance cars. To try to keep wheel pressure on the ground and not sit and spin the tires.Pressur on the ground is why with the same vehicle,skinny tires work better in the snow than wide ones. One ton Dana axles are going to take a lot more stress than the sprokets, chains, or shafts on a atv. As you have stated, all atvs cost some money, maybe people dont want to hook up with a pickup truck because its a stupid idea, and they didnt buy them for that purpose. Maybe if you rode in a aatv and went where nothing else can go, you may find it interesting. Dont be a armchair quarterback, get in the game.

By Chris M. (Argomaster9000) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

We're not the quad crowd. Unlike some people, we don't need to prove anything. People here know perfectly well what their AATVs are capable of. Because of this, we enjoy our machines and wouldn't want anything else.

One more thing, pulling against a pickup wouldn't prove anything. Pulling dead weight on an Argo vs dead wight on a quad would only re-inforce countless statements mentioned in this forum (right Ford?), which I will not mention again! :-)

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well Mike, using your logic, a 4x4 pickup should be able to climb steeper than an AATV, right?

Let me educate you: It's not PSI on the ground that matters because "ground" (dirt/asphalt/tire) gives. Either the ground moves or the tires liquify.

So what really matters in a tug-o-war is the total surface area gripping the dirt/asphalt. And that is why an AATV has a HUGE advantage over a pickup truck. I don't know what the final drive ratio is for an AATV, but I suspect that there is plenty of torque available at the wheels to pull a pickup enough to cause it to break the wheels loose.

Probably the real limiting factor in a tug-o-war is the strength of the hitch point on an AATV.

So it appears to me that none of AATV owners on this board have the gumption to even try pulling a car in the driveway as a test. Pretty lame.

Regarding the fellow who posted about pulling the "little sled" with his conquest, I know that the "big sled weighs 33,000lbs - 64,000lbs (how many of you own a pickup truck rated for 33,000lbs?), the "mini rod sled" weighs 8,000-12,000lbs, and the "garden tractor" sled weighs 4,000-6,000lbs. So unless they had a light sled (empty weight box) you did some serious pulling with your AATV.

By mike s. on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don, a pickup could outclimb a aatv in some situations. Many have stated in the past that speed can get you through some mud and especially up sand dunes. Don,psi does matter,try this to educate yourself. Walk on top of four feet of snow with your shoes on,now try it with snowshoes. Which one kept you from sinking? Put twelve inch wide tires on your car then switch to
six in wide ones and see which perform better in the snow. The wide ones will perform better in the sand. Every road going out onto the beach tells you to lower the air pressure in your tires so you able to ride across the sand much easier, and stay on top of it. This increased your displacement,therefore lowers your psi. Same tire, different application. You stated that no one here has the gumption to drag a car in the driveway and that they are afraid. Some of these same people have offered to take the time using the machines they saved the money to buy and take you for a ride just to help you decide what your going to buy. What do you do? YOU insult them. You would like us to use our aatvs and quads for a purpose they werent designed for, just to show you what? That they will outpull a car? Is that what your looking for? These aatvs are designed for climbing-6 to 8 wheel drive. Going over wetlands without sinking-low psi. Different applications require different vehicles. You wouldnt use a Mack semi as a commuter vehicle, or your honda atv to pull a container. Figure out what you want to do with a atv and find the machine that suits those needs.

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Sorry Mike, you're missing it. Climbing with momentum has nothing to do with traction/torque - just momentum.

If you weren't so afraid, you would discover that your AATV will or should outpull any stock truck - in the dirt or on the asphalt.

I went back and reread Ford's post. He was pulling at least 6000lbs and probably more since it was a sled setup for high-end quads. Now I seriously doubt that a Conquest is rated for that kind of pulling.

So I wonder why nobody has bothered to record and post such events?

Since AATVs are very expensive (20-50% more than a high-end quad) it would seem to me to be a great service to show some head to head competition of AATV versus a quad. But for some reason, nobody on this board seems able to do that.

By the way, I do appreciate the offers from people at least 600 miles away to give me a ride. It's heartwarming.

By argoguru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

don,
Bands would slip or three wheels would peel.
I you want something to pull a pickup, buy a towtruck and get off the board.

By bigkodiak on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Guru
I also remember when you were repairing your governor spring that Matt pulled a seriously stuck Samuri out of some serious mud.
If memory serves me right that guy had 35's on the truck and you could not see the front tires at all. Matt hooked up and pulled straight back...POP goes weasel.
Russ

By robnwan on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks Guru. I tried to be nice and offered one of my Max's for his evaluation if he were in the area but told him I would not waste time with name calling and demeaning.

He sent me a private email saying I should take every opportunity to seed customers to which I responded I would be happy to demo but not engage in fruitless arguing(paraphrase).

This person is not legitimately looking for good info but just stirring things up. Don, go buy your quad if you have the money, don't waste my time anymore and good luck. I would not want a customer like you anyway.

Robert

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

i wish that i would have gotten a picture or video of me trying to pull about a half a yard of concrete that was ocupying a 6ft.x3ft.x12in. hole in my backyard. i used my 94'chevy 1/2 ton truck,and my bigfoot to pull it out.niether budged it.till i broke it in 2.then the argo pulled it out while my chevy just sat and spun.by the way for those of you who are not familiar with concrete,a half a yard weighs about 2000 lbs.
i would not try to out pull my truck on any surface that would in my opinion be foolish.how ever if my truck was to get stuck in my driveway due to snow or ice,i would not hesitate to use my bigfoot to get it out.of course i would have to use the winch.
and just for the record i believe this particular post was about humphreys pictures and not what can you pull,or who can you out pull.i think that is a different post.
and why look at pictures,when you can live the experience.no offense to you john,david, or any one else who has taken any.if you want to know what these machines are capable of BUY ONE and find out first hand.if you don't like it sell it,and buy a quad,or a little red wagon.
just my opinion,i don't think i'm wrong.

By Chris M. (Argomaster9000) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Unfortunately and needless to say, you seem to be right Rob.

If this guy wanted to do or try things with a machine, why doesn't he just purchase one and do it?? Seriously, as someone said earlier, that's the only way to get things done; do it yourself!

If its pulling power you need to know then call up O.D.G. or R.I. and they'll be more than happy to answer how much these machines can pull.

Case in point, he also mentions how Maxes and Argo don't climb hills, rocks or logs on that website. There's more to it than just one website, MUCH more. It's SO obvious this guy never tried one. If I visited only ONE quad web site, I'd say that they're only good for flat surfaces (preferably paved), but that's not seeing the entire picture!

Seriously though, please do everyone a favour by informing yourself PRIOR to posting information on this board. If you DON'T KNOW something, just ask!! I have, and others have too. We'll be more than happy to educate or inform you about anything it is you need/want to know.

P.S. Don, just because a Ferrari dealer doesn't allow you to test the car's top speed, doesn't mean that its top speed is 60mph. Why don't you buy the machine and THEN test its limits before posting how slow the Ferrari is (or asking someone else to do it), hmmm? :-)

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Funny how this thread has morphed. First it was about pictures which became a sales outlet for a fellow's videos. Then it became a split decision between two kinds of AATV owners: those who know their machines and those who don't.

The guys who pulled the sleds know their machines. The guys who believe their machine will explode if it pulls against a pickup need to get some more experience.

The one truism in this discussion is that AATVs are a teeny-tiny market, unable to generate enough revenue to advertise. Unable to invest $ into research and development. Unable to really develope a market. Buy 3 machines to get a dealer's discount and become a "dealer" looking to unload the extra two machines.

The baby-boomers have a lot of money. They're old enough to not care so much about speed anymore. They're smart enough to be decerning in their purchases. Sure seems like a potential market, but maybe not.

I hope that you AATV owners aren't so sensitive about your machines because you secretly feel ripped-off. Stuck with a very expensive machine that you can't use because of public access restrictions that favor quads/motorcycles. Stuck with a machine that you can't push it's limits because the terrain just doesn't exist in the lower-48. Stuck with a machine that your kids don't care about because it's not as fast or flashy as a quad/motorcycle. Sad.

I'm learning a lot about AATVs from this forum. Thank you for the education. Enjoy the season.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Woah, things are heating up a little too much here. This may offend some, but they are just vehicles (really fun ones.) Whats the point in arguing over it. We all have our opinions, some people are just really aggressive and have their minds set in ways that we don't understand.

Calm down people. You may end up using each others vehicles to pull dead bodies out of the ground after this gets really heated up.

By David Sanders on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Don Abernathey )
You stated in your posting,,that the companies that manufacturer the AATV,s, are "unable" to generate enough income to advertise,,but,,this is not true.

There is a Magazine called "All-Terrain Vehicle"
and it comes out four times a year. I have looked at it,when it was avaiable, two times this year already.

The last issue had three pages about an Argo Bigfoot, with eight "large pictures taken at various angles. This was a well written article. This was not an article from the Argo factory,but,,an independent assessment, from the test riders point of veiw,as he drove the Argo Bigfoot in various terrain,,and, also how he felt the machine performed,when it.

This article was well written,and, a lot more imformative than any factory pamplet that you might read in a dealers show room, that sells Argo,s.

This article was quite expensive I,m sure,for Argo.

This months issue ( at the back )has adds for Max,Argo,and Hydrotrax.

By dave_p on Unrecorded Date: Edit

A wise man doesn't need advice and a foolish man does not listen to it. Good to see alot of advice/ideas being shared with those that want it. Every once and a while the other half has to show up.

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Mr. Sanders: Thank you for the info on the magazine - I'll look it up. I appreciate folks who post something usefull.

By Chris M. (Argomaster9000) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don,

I don't feel ripped off. I've owned a quad, sold it, bought an Argo and never looked back.

About the market. It certainly doesn't take a businessman to realize what ODG and RI are doing. You don't seem like the business type and it's sad that you can't see what's going on, with your experience in stocks, etc.

Even I have been able to realize that these two companies base their business on a STEADY market, one in which they can control, unlike the quad manufacturers. They are prone to world market forces out of their control, whereas these smaller companies are not as affected by market crashes, etc.

Honda, Yamaha, etc. are building "towers" whereas ODG and RI are building bungalows. Don, can you guess which will be standing when another market-quake hits? I guess I shouldn't mention that you shouldn't put your eggs all into one basket in stocks, hmm?

Bottom line? There is a REASON for what they are doing, and they know EXACTLY what they are doing. Too much advertisements means you have too many customers who are just along for the "ride" like in the quad industry. That's good revenue-wise, but you're screwed when the "quad-fad" is over.

If you don't advertise and let people explore themselves then you're more likely to get customers who are loyal to your products and realize the value of your product. Your business then only becomes stronger!

By Jim Stiver (Viper) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don,

There is also an article and evaluation of the Max in the April 2002 issue of American Rifleman written by Monte Burch.

By Chris M. (Argomaster9000) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David, I went to the ATV Mag web site, but couldn't find the stuff about the Max/Argo. I checked in the Archives, but nothing. Can you tell me which issue it was (month)?

By David Sanders on Unrecorded Date: Edit

( Chris M. )
The issue I was referring to, that had the write up, about the Argo Bigfoot, was the Sept. issue of "All Terrain Vehicle".

The issue that is out now,,,just has small adds for the Argo and the Max,but,no write ups. I did look in Popular Mechanics or Popular Science this month,,and one of them, had an add for the Max.

People that have posted here on the forum board, saying,, that neither Argo or Max advertise their machines are wrong! They do advertise,,and I have seen their adds more than twice already, since I have been looking for them.

By mike s. on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Argos are advertised in Field and Stream, Max's are in American Rifleman.

By argohunter on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The latest issue of American Hunter Magazine had a two page article on both the Max and the Argo.

By suvaman on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Just a note about the price of 4 and 6 wheelers.I was looking for an off road machine, any kind, and thought i could find a top line quad for not alot of money.Polaris 4x4 500 $6-7k,ouch!Looked for used machine $3-4k.Found a 2000 MaxII 20 hrs?Looked showroom to me, $2800.All I can say is this machine is awsome!