By John Kevin Maiolo (Johnmaiolo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

COVERAGE OF THE IRAQ PRE WAR HAS UNVEILED A PROPULSION SYSTEM ON THE MILITARIES LATV'S. IT IS A SET OF PROPS THAT ARE MOUNTED ABOVE AND REARWARD OF THE BACK TIRES. THEY PROTRUDE FROM THE SIDE OF THE BODY. THE REPORTED WATER SPEED WAS 5 MPH. FOR ALL THOSE THAT WANTED TO MOUNT A PROP AT THE REAR OF THEIR AATV, HERE IS A GOOD OPTION MILITARY PROVEN.

By ej warden on Unrecorded Date: Edit

john,
I am just about ready to pull the plow off my Attex and get going on the water propulsion system I have designed. It basically consist of putting an extra sprocket on each rear axle, running a chain up to a 90 degree gear box (one on each side), and then shafts with props on the end sticking out the back end. I have also thought of using a belt from the axles but I am afraid it will slip. Would love to get a picture or a link to look at the military vehicles.
p.s. I have discussed the idea at length with my wife, and she is firmly convinced I need therapy.

By John Kevin Maiolo (Johnmaiolo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I saw it live on a news show, sorry no link to a web site. Chain drive sounds like it will be sturdy, more weight though. yeah, some people don't understand aatv gearheads, I know what you're talking about.

By ejwarden on Unrecorded Date: Edit

John,
It seems to me that one of the coolest attributes about the 6wheeler is the fact that they float, yet once in the water, they are notoriously ineffective. I find it amazing that one of the two companies remaining in the industry hasn't come up with an economical solution. Sure, everyone knows it's like trying to push a bathtub through the water, but if a machine was capable of at least a realistic 10 mph in the water, wouldn't that be a big seller?

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

One would think that since these machines are so versitile, as ejwarden said, water travel should not be so painful. If these machines are made to traverse water, they should be able to do it efficiently. Although these aren't made for extensive water travel, I think a lot of people are hesatent about water travel because it goes so slow in water. What I worry about is if I am in water and i go into mud or sand that the vehicle get stuck in, and you are floating, how do you get out. Their is no way to get a burst of speed in water because it takes so much to get a bit of thrust in water. If the runnamucks treads were deeper, say another 5-8 mm deeper, they may cling on and propel better in water.

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David -

Deeper treads might also throw more water ahead of the machine and slow it down, a bit like the tracks do. Other things that might help would be a better tread pattern (but that means that Left and Right tires would not interchange) or fenders that help control water flow. I think propellers or water jets would work far better. If ODG and/or RI would include a PTO on the tranny for a propeller, that would be a huge improvement. (I don't want to come straight off the engine since I'd like to be able to reverse the prop.) Right-angle drive off the rear axle makes sense, too.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The tires don't interchange now though. You can't move the left tires to the right-- the stems for the air on on one side and when you move a tire to the other side, you have to put it on backwards for the stem to be on the outside. Someone once mentioned adding small pieces to the axles. if you add little metal pieces that extend out from the axle, they would act as a small water wheel. As the axles turn, the pieces also turn

By Kevin Percy on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a Penguin, and what was done on them to help with water propulsion was install a set of rubber flaps on the body to act kind of like scrapers at the back of the tire to keep them from throwing water up and forward. On the 6x6's they would probably have to be installed behind each set of tires (unless you had tracks on), and placed as close to the waterline as possible. (the Penguin has them too low and the tire throws water all over the place anyway). The early ones also had a set of paddle blades mounted on the axle between the wheel and the body, but I don't know how well they worked, they dropped them off of later models when they changed the tire tread from a turf style to a "v"tread style.
I would think that as long as the wheels are hanging down from the body water speed will be limited (unless you want to use ridiculous amounts of horsepower) I don't doubt that there are ways to add some speed, but they will surely add cost to the machine, and you have to decide what that bit of water speed is worth to you.

By uzi2100c on Unrecorded Date: Edit

You guys want to see some props, go to the Power Track link. Pick used PT's and look at the pictures of the rescue vehicle for sale. I know, these units are hydrolic but thought might be good for ideas on placement, size, etc.

Do any of you have experience with using a boat motor and/or a trolling motor. Sure would like to use my HT for fishing small streams but afraid a 3 mph current would completely stall you out. Hope someone figures it out. Ron

By ej warden on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Dougmac, you are right, I want to use the axles so that the props will have reverse also.
Well, if all goes as planned, I will be at the ride in Humphrey with the propellers on my Attex. That is why I was a little bummed that the ride isn't at the firehouse, where some of you might remember my miserable attempt with the duel trolling motors (it seemed like a winner of an idea at the time.)
The simple fact is that trying to come up with a "better" six wheeler, by using a welder and a few pops is most of the fun. If it works, great, if not, tear it off and try again!

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

yah i remember your attempt, if you hadent stoped too turn em on you may have taken the first place trophy, you were pulling an impresive time up too that point.

By jerry smith (Deerhunter) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I HAVE USED A FEW OUTBOARD MOTERS ON MY BIGFOOT RANGING FROM 5HP TO 9.9HP ON A MOUNT I MADE UP TO FIT IN THE RECEIVER HITCH TO LOWER THE MOTOR SO YOU DON,T HAVE TO USE A LONG SHAFT. I FIND THE 5HP IS ALL YOU NEED, THE SPEED IS THE SAME.THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL GET YOUR AATV TO GO FASTER IN THE WATER IS TO HAVE THE FRONT END MORE LIKE A BOAT TO CUT THOUGH THE WATER.GOOD LUCK JERRY

By P.J. on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Sure would be fun to have a Monster Garage style challenge to see who can build the fastest AATV in the water. I can see the body mods etc. now!

Are there any Jesse James types out there interested?

By uzi2100c on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Jerry, I could use your help. First can you discribe how you made the mount to fit the receiver hitch? Did the motor push your Bigfoot around pretty good with good directional control? Would it push it against a moderate current? How you ever tried a trolling motor? If so, where & how did you mount it? Will it move the unit around very well? I just purchased a Hydro Traxx and whould sure like to find a way to fish small streams and rivers with it. Spining tires would probably spook fish plus catching a fast spining tire on a stump or something might just flip the rig. Thanks, Ron

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Argomag-

You miss understood me when I said you could not interchange tires. Now you can interchange tires. You buy six tires, and they do not become left or right side tires until they are mounted. If we wanted to develop tires with the best possible in water performance, we could find that we need to buy three left tires and three right tires BEFORE they are mounted.

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Argomag-

You miss understood me when I said you could not interchange tires. Now you can interchange tires. You buy six tires, and they do not become left or right side tires until they are mounted. If we wanted to develop tires with the best possible in water performance, we could find that we need to buy three left tires and three right tires BEFORE they are mounted.

By ejwarden on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David,
You are right, I did have a good run going, but I had to try the trolling motors, that was half the fun! If you check the pictures from the run, you will notice that I had my tires on "forward", and that helped me zip through the mud. I have tried the tires on my Attex both ways, and have found a considerable difference in performance through mud with the "V" facing forward. Once you hit the water though, you are done.
Jerry- about the outboard engine... in the water, my Attex is very back heavy because of the engine and tranny placement. I have sunk it numerous times coming out of water onto a steep bank. I'm afraid that any more weight will make it worse.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Is their really a tire/wheel that really ups your performance in water?? The rawhides just make you go in reverse according to what I am told, the runnamucks are alright until tread wears down, and I havn't heard of a quad tire that works. What is the most ideal tire. for mud and water.

By argoguru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

david,
From experience, the rawhide works much better than the runnamucks. If they didn't work well RI and ODG would not put the rawhides on their machines from the factory. the rawhides on my bigfoot pick the front end up out of the water considerably at 3/4 throttle and it will go much faster than with runnamucks. the best tire I have seen for water is the dycos on max 1Vs.

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

argomag,
if you are going backwards with your rawhides in the water,,,turn them around.in other words swap sides with the "v" going up.
i don't know what style they were,but the titans that troy was running on his maxIV seemed to pull him through the water pretty good,and did just fine in the mud too.if i weren't selling my bigfoot,i would probably buy a set of them.

By Dave on Unrecorded Date: Edit

MOTORS: I have been pricing 6 HP four stroke 20 inch long shaft outboards. (6 HP weighs around 50-60 pounds, the 9.9 HP weigh around 110 pounds, to heavy for wife to handle). Seems the Mercury motors run around $1600 and the Johnson motors around $1900. I found Nissen motors at www.cabelas.com for $1100 with free shipping. Anyone know of a CHEAPER motor by a name brand company?.....or a web site where I can pick up a Johnson, Mercury, Evenrude, etc for less?

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

bass pro used to have a 5 horse outboard for about 600.00,weighed about 30 lbs.now bear in mind this was about 4 years ago.but i pretty sure they would have something to suit your needs.go to www.basspro.com ,and check out what they have.

By Pete on Unrecorded Date: Edit

B&S has a 5hp air cooled one for 699.99 from cabela's

By attexsixwheeler on Unrecorded Date: Edit

One excellent way to get more speed in the water is to get the tires out of the water! I have built a model AATV before with retractible hydrofoils, and with a tiny remote control boat engine and jet it goes almost as fast as the boat it came out of! The bad thing is that the model buggy was wrecked due to unstability so all I have left are parts. It used a three-foil system, with two in front and one in rear with integral jet drive. Speeds of 20 MPH or more would be no problem for the real thing! Retract foils and tackle tough terrain as normal.

By Jim on Unrecorded Date: Edit

My experience has been that the hull speed of most 6 wheelers is around 4-5 mph. Now, design a front end attachment that modifies the hull speed and you'll have something. Interestingly enough I am building an eletric outdrive (trolling motor raising and lowering) unit for a max 4. I am almost done welding and will post pics when its done. It allows for an electric boat motor to be lowered in the water and raised out from the front seat -- like an outdrive unit on a boat. My design utilizes a 24 inch screw design.

By ej warden on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Jim,
Please post pics when you get it done, I would love to see it. I tried two electric trolling motors, and it didn't have enough "umph". I like the idea of props, but I want to utilize the power of the sixwheeler engine. Why use a seperate engine, adding more weight, when you have a perfectly good engine that is just sitting there waiting to work.

By amphibious1 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

10-12 ft jon boat gutted to remove seat platforms.
36" bottom. Drill holes in side of boat for flange mounted bearings. Take insides out of maxII or Argo and swap them into jon boat hull. Cover with marine grade plywood that is removeable for service. Ad floatation back in the seat boxes and you have a true amphibious boat.

By Howard Hoover on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Sorry if I'm changing the subject but you have mentioned chains in this discussion and I was wondering if anyone has seen this type of chain tensioner? it is round and rides or free wheels in between your chains it just looks like a sprocket more or less but larger in diameter so it forces the chain up farther on the top and down lower on the bottom instead of squeezing the chain together It's supposed to give the chains and sprockets longer life and the chain rides on the sprocket the correct way or the way it's supposed to anyway instead of the chain riding down the sprocket? Howard

By Dave Johnston on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The Briggs and Straton motor is 6 hp but only has a 15 inch (short) shaft. Not low enough in the water for an ARGO. Best I came up with is a 6 hp...four stroke long (20") shaft Nessan from Cabelas. (Around $1170 with free delivery) While the ARGO can take up to a 10 hp motor, the weight is around 105#...not including gas. (Internal gas tank?) The 6 hp weighs around 55# and since the gas tank is not internal, I have no added weight. My plan is to run a heavy duty gas line to the main tank of the ARGO. Wife in the back will run the motor when we are in the water, to better balance out the weight. I will let you all know how it goes... In regards to lights, by the way, there are cheap ($25) battery powered navigation lights you can buy that stick on with a clamp or suction cup. A good idea if you end up out in a lake at night. At least it is one LESS ticket you can get...

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Dave -

Great idea! However, I wish I could figure a way to use that nice 18 HP engine under the hood. A PTO back to the lower unit from a outboard, maybe? At times like this I wish I had studied engineering...