Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through December 12, 2000	2

By joeh on Unrecorded Date: Edit

With spring finally coming I am anxious to hit
the mud with my max IV, could someone point
me to the section of the site if it exists that
explains what I need to get for T20 oil, and
how much, and how do i drain it, take it out or
buy a suction pump? Also i think someone
said add some kind of additive? Also the 20hp
Kohler deserves oil, plugs and filter, anyone
have recommendations re ordering online or
should I drive to the nearest kohler dealer, or
maybe I don't need a kohler oil filter? Can I
match it up? What about spark plugs? What
do you guys do? these are tme types of
questions I think would be great to see you
guys that know what your doing (like fred)
answer for this time of year, thanks for your
input, this site rocks!

-joe

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Joe, The Max is very easy to maintain, even though I seem to have failed once. I can tell you what you need to do though. Drain the T-20 by raising the front of the Max as high as you can get it. Real easy if you have a winch. Pull the plugs and get out as much as you can. It might not be dry but you can't really do anything about that. Put it back on a level surface and fill it with Dextron III / Mercon auto trans fluid. Fill it until it comes out of the lower drain hole. Do not overfill.
Any autoparts store can cross reference your oil filter to any brand you want to buy. I have used Wix and Fram. Your engine usually has the oil type written on it somewhere, probably like 10w-30. I use Quaker State full sythetic although I normally prefer Pennzoil.
For spark plugs, just take them out and get the number and brand off it. You can then buy the same kind or have them cross reference it to any brand you want. Champion is the best El Cheapo plug and will work great. I never thought you could change engine performance with a spark plug until I bought a pair of Bosch Platinum +4 plugs. They are $6 each and worth every penny. Easier starting and better throttle response. You will actually feel the difference.
Grease all your outer bearings. No more than three pumps of waterproof marine grease in each or you will blow out the seal. You did not say the year of your Max, but grease the inner bearings if you have the newer model.

MaxRules

By William L Stephenson (William) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Spent afternoon on routine maintainance, still haven't found easy way to get to inside passenger rear zerk, but had trouble dismounting 5 of 6 wheels to access the outer flange grease points. I have dismounted wheels probably 6 times before this without any difficulty (most recently Feb.)but this time the lugs all seemed out of alignment. It took a crowbar prizing incrementally around hub to dismount tires! I may have subsequently crossthreaded/stripped bolt with remount. (Yeah I used an air impact hammer probably shouldn't have) Can these bolts be individually replaced? And the Bosch plugs/synthetic oil and chain lube made an immediate performance difference. Quieter and more throttle response. Welcome all advice/input, Thanks in advance

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

William, you don't have to take the tires off to grease those outer flange zerks. Just use a flexable hose on your grease gun and you can get to them.
You don't say what model or year you have but I'm guessing it is a Max IV with k-rims. When you used the impact to put on the lugs last time, you probably over torqued them. This causes the metal of the rim to smash out and get real tight around the lug holes. The bolts on the axle flange can be knocked out of there with a hammer so I assume they can be replaced.

MaxRules

By Paul Laybourn on Unrecorded Date: Edit

What is the Bosch # for the platinum +4 plugs that fit an 18 hp B&S vanguard. It has RC12YC Champions in it.The auto parts store showed no cross reference.

Thanks for any info

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The Bosch plugs are 4418.

By gary obrien (Hayob) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

What would the gap be on the Bosch plugs?

Does anyone know the cross reference number for the drive belt maxII ??

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The Bosch +4 plugs can't be gapped, you just put them in. The Max II uses the Dayco Max 1039 drive belt.

MaxRules

By mr. tinker on Unrecorded Date: Edit

bosch has a new platinum plug called bosch +2. it has two electrodes instead of four. you may try to cross reference from the +4.

By Argohunter (Argohunter) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Has anyone found an easy way to grease the zerk on the inside bearing, rear axle, Max II without having to pull the engine. I thought I had just about every kind of grease gun fitting including needles for double carden u-joints. Any of my combos w/wo flexible fittings just can't get to it.

By Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I don't think it can be done with the old style zerk. Looks like you have a 2001 so the update must have came soon after that. The new ones have an angled zerk toward the back so a grease gun can easily attach without removing anything.

By Argohunter (Argohunter) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Yes it's a 2001 that I bought last spring.It's got 11 hours on it presently. I am about to shop it and do some maintenance and cleaning out. I'll try again to access the zerk. I'm glad RI changed this. I expect most people just don't grease it cause they can't get to it. I'll figure something out.

By shane forsythe (Shanefor1) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

argo hunter,
put a small copper pipe threded both ends where
the was , bend the pipe to fit in space and attach the on the end some where where you can access it easily.

this will stop dust getting in and bearing wear from dirt.

maybe R.I. could make these to fix the problem they made in the first place.

By Argohunter (Argohunter) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

shane,
I think the word zerk was left out of your post. but I think I know what you meant. It's an idea to look at. I'll see what I can do. Thanks

By shane forsythe (Shanefor1) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

yes argohunter
i did , that's what i get for typing too fast.

anyway you know what i ment.

hope this helps fix it.
shane

By jim stefanowicz (Maxindetroit) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi everyone, thanks for all the usefull info, i am a new owner of a 94 Max11, i went to change the plugs, it has Champion rc14yc in it now, I want to put in the Bosch plus 4 but nobody can cross reference it......any help?

By Attex Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I think Brandon can. I think he ran Bosch plugs in his along time ago?

By Attex Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I think Brandon can. I think he ran Bosch plugs in his along time ago?

By jim stefanowicz (Maxindetroit) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Oops forgot to say that 94 Max11 has a 16hp B&S engine

By Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The Bosch +4 plugs you need is 4418.

By jim stefanowicz (Maxindetroit) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks Brandon!

By Ronals T Severt on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hello, I have a 98 max two in excellent shape, ( no body damage any where and looks runs like new. I am taking on water like crazy.. It has to be coming in at axle seals. after taking off wheel, is it hard to pull axle? what steps do I take to do so? are the seals expensive? Thanks for your time

By Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Bearings are easy to replace but it will take several hours to do a full set. Your Max could have splined or regular bolt-through sprockets so I'll post info on both. To pull the axle with bolt sprockets:
Remove the bolt holding the sprocket to the axle. Your '98 II should have inner bearings that are the same as the outer bearings. Remove the lock collars by first loosening the allen screw. Use the other hole in the collar to spin the collar loose from the axle. A hammer and punch works best for this. Loosen both collars (one on each inner and outer bearing). The axle should pull out of the vehicle at this point. Many times I have found the bearings seized onto the axle. The bearings on my '99 II were in horrible shape when I replaced them. Those outer bearings had to be machine pressed off the axle. Removing the three nuts from the outer bearing flange will allow you to pull the axle out of the vehicle with the outer bearing still on the axle.

Please note the splined axle design has had some changes over the years. This info is for the 2004 models, but will be enough info for your '98.
To remove a splined axle:
Loosen the outer bearing lock collar same as above. The inner bearing on a splined axle is slightly smaller (1" compared to 1.25"). This bearing has only two allen set screws. Loosen those and remove the bolt from the end of the axle. The sprockets have an allen screw holding them in place. Remove it and check for a second screw under the first. I've heard some have two screws but the ones I have removed only had one. With any luck the axle will pull out at this point.

Retail price for Max bearings from a dealer are $39.75 each.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ronals T Severt, First thing is check your bearing flange bolts for uniform tightness. Tighten to 20 ft lbs torque. I use a short handled wrench so not to twist off the nut. Once all four bolts are uniformly tight, put two squirts of grease in each outer bearing flange. If a gob of grease comes out between the two metal plates, tighten the bolt on each side just a little more. I think your leakage will be solved. IF not, check each wheel for bearing slop and if you have a bad bearing, change it.

By Eddie Beddingfield on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Man,not to hit on a sore spot,but I keep reading posts on leaking axles on Max vehicles.Seems they should copy ODG's design and go with a double sealed flange. But I guess you get what you pay for. Eddie

By Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Last time I talked to my Argo distributor, I asked what part he sold the most. Easy question for him, BEARINGS.
It's true Argo has a nice outer seal over the axle bearings, but the bearings themselves are cheaper than Max. Use and maintenance will determine how long they last on either machine.

By Eddie Beddingfield on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Cheapness of the bearing doesnt make that much difference. Contamination in a bearing is what will destroy a bearing.Keep the lubrication in and the water out and you will get good service out of it.Without a seal water will wash out your lube no matter how waterproof it is.Im sure bearings are a big seller for Argo dealers but they are probably for a machine that is several years old not two or three. Read the board and you will find more Max failures than Argo.

By sam on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The reason mre MAX failures is because there are 10 times more
max's out there that argos, not because one bearing is better than another. You guys need to be real

By Motown's (Bigwolf) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Gentlemen,

Since I have two neighbors right down the street from me that both own Argo's and me owning a Max IV, I have has the opportunity to look over all our machines including the bearings and axles and so on. What I have found is that both brand machines use what I would call an entry level or standard type bearing. Neither brand uses bearings that are better suited for a wet and dirty application. In both cases they are a lower cost bearings, that can be replaced at a low and resonable price. I also found that either brand could upgrade the type of bearings that they use for only $10 to $20 per bearing more, to a bearing that is better suited for wet and dirty applications, and have double or triple seals in the bearings.

I have discussed this topic with several people off line on the phone. Several are Argo owners and several are Max owners. I did not find any owner of either brand that was happy with the type of bearings used, or the actual life span that they last in either case, and no one was happy about the price of bearings from the dealer or factory at all. The consensus was to keep them pumped full of water proof grease regularly, and just deal with it when it comes time to change them out. Sorry to say this dealers, however, the actual retail cost for a bearing, through most any bearing supplier, is less than half of what was mentioned in the note above.

Actually my outer bearings flange seals do real good job keeping the water out. I do not get any water leakage from my outer bearings at all. However, where I do get a lot of water from is rain fall, when I have my machine out side, and it rains when I am hunting or camping. I also notice that there is a lot of debris and dust that ends up getting into the machine cock pit area, and settles down below in the lower body area. I have more concern about the rain water and debris and dirt getting into the lower body area than the water and mud that gets on the out side of the machine. I think this should really be more of a concern for people to pay attention to, versus the direction that these discussions always seem to go off in. There is a greater potentional for rust and corrosion and contamination of exposed bearings and metal parts of the lower drive trains and all twelve or more bearings and axle shafts from the inside versus the out side.

I have also noticed some thing else very interesting when I have been looking at used machines that poeple are trying to sell. In most all cases the entire lower drive train and lower body area seems to be just about totally consumed in rust. I am talking every where, every piece of exposed metal is usually all rusted up. When I see this in a machine, it tells me a couple of things about that person, one they have no clue what proper maintanance means or entails, two the machine probably was not maintained well if at all, and three I would not buy a piece of junk like that unless it was for a about $1.00. When I see things like that I automatically assume that it needs to have a complete tear down and overhaul from the bottom up. There is little doubt in my mind that bearings and seals are shot and have seen better days. And there is little doubt that there are probably many more worn out parts and components that you do not see.

These are the reasons that I do not buy used stuff/junk, and prefer to buy new. If a person is even 1/3 of a mechanic then some of what I have written here will make some sense!

By Zing on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The Argo axle seals cause wear in the axle which results in water and "contamination" getting in to the bearing. They make a sleeve kit to put on your axle to cover these groves and give your new seals a place to ride when the bearing and seals are replaced. Keep the system greased and it will last a long time. This includes after every trip in the water. Max uses a triple lip seal on their outer bearings but no seals in a housing. No axle wear. Once again, if the bearings are not lubed, contamination will get past the triple lip seals and ruin a bearing. Keep it greased and it will last a long time. Yes, grease it after every water ride. Too much grease can damage a seal and allow contamination into either design. Use just enough to keep the bearing full and allow any contamination to be purged out. I've changed one bearing in my 1998 Max II and I am also good friends with an Argo dealer.

By harry wolstenholme (Plmkrz) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

does any body know how to hook up a hr meter for max 11 for a 16 hp. tecumseh and what kind of bosh plug whould it take it a champ.l82c or 86 thanks harry

By Rogersmith (Rogersmith) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

You'd think companies who build amphibious vehicles would put ample thought and design into sealing water out. Maybe they do, but don't want to increase production costs. Max's seal situation seems to me, ridiculous. Argo at least has a flange with two seals and two grease barriers between the bearing and the outside world, but it ain't perfect. The seals are single lip without a retainer spring on the lips. How they manage to wear a groove in the axle is beyond me. Maybe soft steel, or grit. It is a rough enviroment, all the crap they are exposed to, stuff wrapped around the axle.

I use common oil seals for replacements on my '97 argo, you know, a lip seal with a garter spring, and a outboard wiper seal. In other words, something real. Because the seal is different than the stock ones, the lips ride on a new spot on the axle. They seal like a seal should. Nothing goes in, nothing goes out. When you try to grease the outer flange, it's always full, and no contamination is there to be pushed out.

National oil seal #'s 471413 and 471737

By Bill cripe (Bcripe) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ok, well just so happens that I am replacing my outer bearings (not because they need it, because Im rebuilding my whole bottom end since this machine was used with a questionable background. At least no rust) and I am curious what would be top quality bearings to put back in? Max II.

Thanks,
BC

By Bubba Hunt on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Rogersmith, well, as much as I hate to discuss this matter, the hydraulic wheel motors of the Hydro-Traxx has seals with seal protectors. Since the pressure is on the inside, it never takes on water. And, they have never been known to leak hydraulic oil out. Some day maybe folks will make hydraulic wheel motors for all of them.Sure would take out the neck-wrenching twisting of skid-steer, oops, I may have started mud being "flang" at me again!!
Bubba shadowmountainoutdoors.com

By Motown's (Bigwolf) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Bill,

The axle bearings that are installed on my 2003 Max IV are Peer brand bearings and locking collars. Peer bearings are what came installed on my machine from the factory. They are an OK to good quality bearing, however, I would not call them the finest available. They are reasonably inexpensive though, ranging from $12 to $20 each retail, depending on where you by them from.

My machine uses the Peer HC 200 series bearings on the outers, and the I.D. bore is 1 1/2" dia. My inner bearings are the Peer UC 200 series bearings, and the bore I.D. is 1" or 1 1/4" dia. Both come complete with locking collars and set screws. One added piece of information, you can order and buy these same bearings with triple seals just by adding the suffix -TRL at the end of the part number.

I think that you can also locate these same type of bearings in stainless steel, however, the cost would be quite a bit more each.

I bought a couple of bearings from the factory at their very high price, just so that I could identify the manufacturer and part numbers on the bearings, and then I proceeded to by a complete set of spare bearings from Applied Industrial Technologies. Applied gave me a very good price on the bearings that I ordered from them, however, afterwards I discovered that Richard Clark from Route 6x6 handles and sells them for an even better price. He was as much as a buck or two per bearing cheaper.

You would need to pull a set of bearings out and get the part numbers and sizes off of them, or you can just call and talk to Richard directly, and he can tell you which sizes you need. Or your other alterative would be to call a Max dealer or the factory, and buy them for $35.00 each times twelve. If you have outer bearing cages to run the track kit, then the correct quantity would be eighteen bearings total.

By tonylarose on Unrecorded Date: Edit

max hydro conversion
Hello all; i am a 98 max4 owner who is sick of his sticking clutches and kinda crappy t20 performace; having to adjust frequently and deal with a screaming engine all the time. I am looking into swapping my t20 for a couple of hydro motors and mounting them in the same area driving the chains. I was looking for others who would be interesting in sharing in a disccusion of the project and findings. currently i have researched a couple of motor options but have not found any with the performance that i am really happy with. this is why the t20 is around because its hard to find a hydro motor that will put out the tourque and speed that the t20 can. I think that the steering will drasticly improve because not the aatv will be able to have one drive going one way and the other drive opposite so in theory it will be a nice turning machine. The engine may even be able to reduced and weight saved. do you need 20hp to drive these hydro motors.
well i will conitinue to search and hope others will post
thanks

By Motown's (Bigwolf) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I do not have any thing to post regarding your hydro conversion project, however, I do need to correct the information that I posted on the prior note about the Max IV bearing sizes.

The bearing sizes that I posted earlier were the wrong sizes, I just found my paper work of the correct bearing sizes and part numbers that I bought for my 2003/2004 Max IV, for spare parts. The correct Peer Bearing for the outer bearings is #HC207-20, which has an 1 1/4" race I.D. The correct Peer Bearing for the inner bearings is #UC206-17, which has an 1 1/16" race I.D.

These are the correct part numbers and sizes of the bearings that the factory installed. If you want to change them to a triple seal type, just add the suffix -TRL to the end of the part numbers.

Sorry for posting the wrong information in the earlier note!

By Thomas Butman (Tbutman) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi, I just bought a 2002 Max 2 off E-bay (had it home 5 days) Well, it didnt come with a owners manual. This may sound lame to you seasoned Max owners but how do you take the top part of the tub off to clean the debris out and lube the chain and service the engine and stuff? Anybody feel up to giving me a step by step? Man these things will go anywhere!~
Any other Mainer's on this board with a Max?

By shane forsythe (Shanefor1) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

tonylarose,
because of the nature of hydrostatic drive,
you will have a high reving engine.

you can email me if you want.
shanefor1@yahoo.com.au
thanks shane

By Bud ( - 167.230.104.90) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thomas:

1. Remove the seat/floorboard. Pull the hairpin out of the mount at the bottom of the floorboard (below the shifter) and lift up the seat/floorboard. Be mindful of the brake pedal and the shift knob.

2. Pull the pins out from the rollbar mounts (just beneath the body where the rollbar mounts to the frame).

3. Unscrew and remove all of the wingnuts holding the upper body to the tub except for the ones (3 - ?) on the very front. These stay in place.

4. From the rear of the Max, lift the body away from the tub and secure it up with the prop rod that you will see near the rear of the engine. The body will stay attached to the front and hinge up.

By Thomas Butman (Tbutman) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks Bud and to all you guys that e-mailed the solution to me. Much appreciation~ Was doing doughnuts last night on the packed snow in my driveway and after about 30 minutes all of a sudden started running like crap had to keep choking it to get it into the garage acted like it was out of fuel, even though it has a half tank.
any ideas whats wrong? its a 2002 Max 2 18 hp vanguard Briggs

By Thomas Butman (Tbutman) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I found the problem. The fuel line going from the pump to the carb was dry cracked badly and when I plugged one end and blew through it the pressure would quickly dissapate through the cracks. I replaced this temporarily with a new piece of lawn mower fuel line and used some small zip cord for clamps and after the breather/air filter was all put back on it ran like it was suppose to. I was convinced my fuel pump was bad. The machine is only 3 years old seems strange that the factory rubber hose would be so deteriorated.

By Mikel Bradford Sr. (4.224.114.193) on : Edit

Ronals
This is just a thought, Are the drain plugs in place om your 98 max?