Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through November 20, 2000	2
	Archive through March 14, 2002	4

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey, folks, anyone else having problems with the alternator on their 18 HP Briggs Vanguard? The built-in (16 amp) alternator on my engine failed two years ago while the engine was still under warantee. It just quit again. Is this a common problem with the Briggs?

By Ian on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi, anyone ever rebuild a Vanguard 14-23HP. I just did a crank swap in a new 20HP Vanguard, by the book, lined up the timing marks, tightened all the bolts. It is trying to make compression when hand rotating, but for some reason, some of it slips out, so you don't get the backpressure at the compression stroke to slow down the rotation. I didn't change the valve adjustments, but the best I can tell, it may be leaking out the exhaust valve?

Any ideas, or anyone seen this?

Thanks,
Ian
buyerhaliscak@aol.com

By Larry Houghton on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ian: You didn't say if you had the heads off. If you did you have to re-adjust your valves. Also just check and make sure when your pistons are on top dead centre that your valves are closed. You could be out a tooth on your timing.

By Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

By your description, it sounds like there is nothing wrong with your engine. It has a compression release to make it easier to turn over. Both the electric starter and your recoil benefit from this. It does come out of the exhaust valve, you can see the little ball in the cam lobe that causes it.

By RickMoMoBigfoot on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Someone tell me should my 18hp vanguard motor valves be set at .030 . thanks for your info... Rick

By Rogersmith (Rogersmith) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I think it's around .005" Rick for both intake and exhaust.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Roger is right. The book says between .004" and .006" for both.

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Rick, they should be set around .004" to .006" for both, intake and exhaust. Hey, you and Mark going to make Deepwater in two weeks?

By Rogersmith (Rogersmith) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

And is that cold or hot clearance.. was thinking cold.

Anyone have a source for stronger valve springs on the Briggs, these things are so weak. Might see if there's room for a shim.

By RickMoMoBigfoot on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Troy, I'm going to deepwater for sure.Mark still not sure.He likes to do things at the last second. Remeber, last year he said no and one day he's there for the ride. Rick

By Timothy Schotanus (Mudbuster) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have some shims for a briggs if you want them but I recomend stronger retainers if you do that. The factory stamped ones are a week point.

By Rogersmith (Rogersmith) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks for the info, Tim. Do you know of a source for valve train parts?

By Timothy Schotanus (Mudbuster) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Try (704)291-7825 If you want to hear my experiance with "hopping up" a briggs feel free to e-mail me and I can give you the long winded version.

By lcater on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Gas problems? My ARGO 6x6 Bigfoot is having some fuel
problems which are intermittent. After running for about an
hour, she will stall, however can be kept going by manipulating
the choke. With the throttle held open, pulling the choke and
releasing it gets the revs back up and power to limp back home,
but it's tough with only 2 hands. I recently changed out for new,
fuel filter, air filter, new plugs, and full oil change. Plus I have
put in 2 tank fulls of gas since we bought her. After sitting for 2
hours, she'll run fine again, and may not experience this for a
few days. Any ideas? Fuel pump? Water or sediment in the fuel
system?
Thank

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

my Magnum did the same thing and it turned out to be water in the carb- something you may want to check, mine was bad though and caused it to roll over on the road one day.

By fred sain on Unrecorded Date: Edit

lcater, it can be either of the things that you mentioned, fuel pump, or trash in tank. The odds are more in favor of the trash in tank. We take the fuel out of the tank, with an electric fuel pump. Connected to the fuel line in front of the machines fuel pump. After draining tank pour a little fresh fuel in tank, and drain that also. If your problem is trash in fuel, this should cure it. Good Luck

By lcater on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks for the input. I as well spoke to Jaimie at ODG and he as well figures it is one of these. I picked up a new fuel pump anyway, as I figured at $60 (cdn) it'll be the cheapest fuel pump I ever buy.
I will still check the tank though to ensure it is clear of junk.

By Pete ( - 204.116.134.16) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

check your tank vent

By brettbbonner ( - 66.61.20.19) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Lcarter - I've had the same problem on a Vanguard 18HP. The cause is water in the tank that corrodes and builds up gunk over the jet in the carburetor. Bouncing around clogs the jet and emulsion tube, causing the lean condition you describe.

I have not found a satisfactory answer. I try to drain the carb via the screw where the backfire solenoid would go if so equipped (and it should be so equipped in my opinion).

I'm thinking about replacing the carb with a 20HP carb for better luck and adding a anti-backfire solenoid.

Does anyone know if the only change on a Vanguard 18 and 20 is just the carb?

By BrettBBonner ( - 199.82.243.74) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

UPGRADE 18 HP Vanguard

If possible, and if it would provide increased power, I would like to replace the 18HP carb in the vanguard with the 20HP version. I would like to add the anti-backfire solenoid. It looks like the only change is the carb itself.

Does anyone know if the above is true?

By lcater on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Okay, now it's time to call in the experts. My uncle, who is a lifelong mechanic took a look at my problem as it is still existing, but now every outing. A recap.
To date, I have replaced the following in the past 60 days (less than 5 hours of ride time)
- fuel pump
- air filter and pre-cleaner
- spark plugs
- gas
- hoses from fuel filter to pump, pump to crankcase, and pump to carburator
- fuel filter

We have as well checked
- intake from gas tank
- fuel line
- carburator (jets, needle valve, floats)
- mixture and idle settings
- carburator is very clean with no water residual, just nice shiney brass

We can get everything to work in isolation
- fuel pump pumps well when not connected to carburator
- crank pressure feels good (but have nothing to test with)
- pump draws fuel up from tank through filter with good flow rate
- needle valve and float arm are working
- engine runs great when it is running (42kph on bigfoot tires)

But, when we connect it all up, the pump does not draw enough pressure to pull the gas up to the filter. In the end, we suspect the fuel pump, however I just bought it because of this problem.

Has anyone experienced a bad batch of fuel pumps? I purchased from a briggs and stratten dealer, they look identical to the one I pulled off, and are manufactured by Mikuni. They are stamped 2 POM on them. Is this the right fuel pump? Does anyone know what pressure or flow rate is required on the fuel pump?
Appreciate the feedback.
Thanks
Len

By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

You mentioned there was not enough pressure to pull gas up to the filter. Is the filter on the suction side? I would try to move the filter so gravity fills the filter or pressure fills the filter. I don't think the little pumps have enough draw to pull fuel up through an empty filter.
I may be wrong ,but when I rearranged my filter so gravity fills it , it worked alot better.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

ANNYTHING THAT LETS VALVE COVERS BREATH OR CRANK CASE PRESHURE ESCAPE WILL HARM YOUR FULE PUMPS ABILITY TO FUNCTION IN THIS BRIGGS/MICUNI COMBO,
THEY ARE RELYING VERY HEAVELY ON SMALL PRESHURE CHAINGES IN THIS 4 STROKE TO ACT LIKE A 2 STROKE CRANK CASE PULSE WICH IS WHAT THAT MICUNI FULE PUMP IS DESIGNED FOR,
EVEN SO MUCH AS A LOOSE OIL DIPSTICK WILL KILL THE PULSE YOUR PUMPS COUNTING ON!
IT MIGHT JUST BE BETTER TO GET THE ELECTRIC FULE PUMP USED ON SOME ARGO MODELS,

By lcater on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The filter is between the pump and tank, however the design on the Argo has the filter and pump slightly above the tank. We have literally checked it all, including making sure the oil stick was in tight, we had venting in the tank. I will head to the local Briggs dealer, as he has 2 new Vanguards on the floor and compare the fuel pumps on those. I thought I read elsewhere that electric fuel pumps are dangerous on this setup, unless this as well requirs a new carb set up.
Thanks
Len

By Rpger Smith ( - 67.234.91.252) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Can't imagine not running an electric pump on the response/briggs. Never a fuel delivery problem. I'm using a generic automotive inline pulse pump(autozone)speced at 3-5 lbs or so. Havn't had to lower the float or anything, never runs rich or floods. Some guys are running a 1 lb. kawasaki pump.

I am a mechanic and can handle whatever it would take to make it work.. lowering the float, making a return line bleed off to lower the pressure if it was too high..

There are real dangers, one of the biggest I think is if the vehicle was upside down or on it's side and the key on and pump still running, the carb would spill. Anyone doing an electric pump should consider the dangers and install it safely. Carry a fire extinguisher.

Argoguru says he has a cure for the uphill fuel starvation. He adds fuel line between the stock pump and carb, and routes the hose up high by the front of the hood.

By fred sain on Unrecorded Date: Edit

lcater, I think you either have a bad carburator, or the fuel pump that you put on is bad. Although most of the time when we work on fuel problems, it is almost always trash, or water in the system.
If you are sucking air around the oil stick or anywhere else, the engine will be trying to flood out, blowing black smoke and such. A problem with any small engine is it takes very little, trash or water, to cause problems. If your tank has anything in it, every time that you clean out the system, it is just sucking trash back into the system from the tank. The tanks are very hard to get clean, we have had to replace a few, that had gas turned to glue, we just could not get them clean. I hope some of this helps, I know it is frustrating, but you will usually find something simple to be the problem.

By lcater on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I was back in with the B&S guy today looking at the Vanguards. The pump is the right one. He believes there is not enough vacuum being created from the crank. SO I can either continue to look for the problem or install a 1.5psi electric fuel pump which I may just go to. I called ODG and tech support said as long as it is rate to 1.5 and no more, then it should not be a problem. Has anyone else installed one of these?

By fred sain on Unrecorded Date: Edit

lcater, If ODG says that you can use the electric fuel pump, it would be worth a try. I have had some customers use the electric, as far as I know, they have had no trouble. At least you will know if it is the fuel pump that is giving you the trouble.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

so how much dose the odg electrice fule pump cost?

By lcater on Unrecorded Date: Edit

It's not an odg fuel pump, but then again, they never make their own pumps anyway. It's a 1.5psi electric pump about the size of a pop can. It costs $110cdn and looks pretty simple to mount. I will most likely hook the electical in with the brake blower unless a better plan evolves. I'll need to cap off the manifold output, and get a slightly larger/better fuel filter (since the pump can draw through it, it is recommended to go with a finer paper.) I have not bought it yet but will post the progress.
thanks
len

By lcater on Unrecorded Date: Edit

This is my final post on this topic....I hope. Picked up a carb overhaul kit, and only replaced the slow idle and high speed jet. Runs like a charm, and in the end was the high speed jet clogged with crap. With the 1.5psi electric pump though, I find the engine does not get starved on steep inclines as she had a few times in the past.
Thanks again to those who posted ideas. Anyone looking for some photos on the electric install, can email me below.
Len

By funtothemax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

here is the motor we need in our 6 wheelers

http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/product.asp?PN=543477-0115

By Vaughn on Unrecorded Date: Edit

R.I. has one of those 31hp motors,unsure if they are testing it in a machine yet.

By reed on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Richard Clark has already used one of these 31HP engines, in a MAX IV.
I know because I bought the machine form him. Early 90's machine, rebuilt
by him, less than half pice from new, plus the 31hp engine to boot. Note about the engine, engine appears to be same block as my 20hp unit, different carb, aircleaner and so on. I thnik Briggs just took the 23 and hot rodded it a bit, sounds like it has a bit of a hot cam in it, so I think that is most of the power. I bet one could hot rod a smaller HP engine and do well. I asked Richard if he know any details about inside engine, he said he has not had one apart yet, they have only been available for about 6 months.

Reed McFadden

By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Reed,
How about sending some pictures for Richard to post?

By Bill cripe (Bcripe) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

How does that Max run with a big motor like that? Fast? Power? Acceleration?

Thanks,
BC

By Rogersmith (Rogersmith) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The 25-31 hp are a different block. Bore and stroke is way out there, it's about 900 cc. Block/head is about an inch taller. Love to have one.

By Timothy Schotanus (Mudbuster) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a hot-rodded 23hp and it is a different block than the 20hp. I had to make a custom exhaust because the ports were about 1/2inch further apart.

By hilbile ( - 216.146.255.169) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Having trouble with the 18hp briggs. When I spin my max IV the motor will die. I have adjusted the float up and down and it does not help. Anyone have this problem or know how to fix it. This is the only problem with motor. It still does this if the tank is full of fuel.

By roadwolf ( - 64.229.201.79) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

maybe too much fuel, not enuff air. dirty filtre or too big of main jet or low speed adjustment.

By Rogersmith (Rogersmith) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Brandon mentioned that before. Something with centrifugal force and the way it affects the carb when doing doughnuts?

By Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Very common problem with the Briggs engines. They usually don't die, but choke out for a second. Most engines only choke while spinning one way and not the other. I don't think anything is really wrong with your engine, it's just the fact that Briggs doesn't like to spin. The only cure I know of is to get a Kohler or Kawasaki.

By Tracy Norcross on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Looking to gain an additional 10% to 15% out of a new Briggs Vanguard 35 without sacrificing any dependability or starting problems in cold weather. Any "bolt on" modifications or other?
Tracy

By Bill Straub (66.181.136.36) on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 09:33 pm: Edit

I bought a 2001 MaxII 600 with the 18 HP Briggs. Low hours, but it wasn't maintained. The gas and oil were nasty and as a result, I had to replace a head because the valve was welded in place with gum. It seems to run fine now, but every once and a while, the rpms rise and fall - whether idleing or under throttle/load. After 15-20 minutes, it will stop and run fine. Am I still seeing the remnants of the bad gas?? I drained and cleaned the tank, replace all the gas line and fuel filter and cleaned the carb. Are there adjustments that can be made to the carb?? Know where to get a service manual for this engine??

By jim stefanowicz (Maxindetroit) (205.188.116.14) on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 12:08 pm: Edit

Bill, its possible you still may be haveing some residual affects of all that gunk in the system. Did you take the carb apart and clean it good? It dosent take much to plug up those carbs and affect performance, there are idle speed and mixture adjustments on the carb. Contact R.I., or Richard the owner of this site for service manuals. Also check and make sure the gas cap vent is open and allowing air into the tank. You may try the Briggs website also now that i think about it, you can see pictures and download engine breakdowns from there. Hope this helps. Jim