Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through September 6, 2000	3
	Archive through September 4, 2002	30

By frank on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Had my tranny rebuilt by Richard and had it reinstalled by a friend. The Max II goes in forward and reverse now, but it is hard to get it in gear - sounds like the gears are grinding and I have to patiently try to get in gear without too much grinding - is this normal? Frank

By Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Sounds like the engine is idling to high or the belt is to tight. Make sure the drive clutch (on the engine) is not grabbing the belt at idle. The tranny is usually turning slowly when in neutral but gears grind when it is going to fast, just like if you were giving it gas. It also helps to pull the sticks back with one hand while shifting with the other.

By George on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I found that pushing the sticks forward or backward helps get you in to gear. I can't remember what the relatiuon is (if you pull the sticks back to get the tranny in forward or vice versa) but whatever it is, the opposite works for reverse too.

By Attex Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

You beat me to it Brandon. You took the words right off my keyboard!!!! :)

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Frank, To add to what Brandon said; You basically have a brand new tranny and they are tight and hard to shift for a few hours of use. Do not grind the gears as you will just necessitate another rebuild. Patience is important with a T-20. Check your idle and belt tension (you should be able to walk the belt off the driven pulley without loosening anything. It is tight, but you should be able to get it off - that is the right tension.

When shifting, set your holding brake and rock the machine with your body. I try to shift just as I come to a stop.

By hillbillymax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

just changed the fluid in my t-20. now I am having problems going in reverse. only the right side is pulling when in reverse. both sides work fine going forward. is there a problem internal or does the tranny need to be adjusted??

By Attex Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

How did you drain the T-20? Did you take it out and drain it?

Sounds like you have a bent shift rod? Make sure the two triangle are turning when and where they should.

By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I had the same problem with one of my machines. The pin that is attached to the triangle was bent. It allowed shifting one side between nuetral and forward, but reverse on that side didn't work. You will need to pull the shiftter out of the transmission to look at it. On the old machines there is a snap ring in the hole under the triangle and the newer machines have a angle bracket that hold the shifter in place.

Of course I discovered the problem when I was trying to back out of a dangerous situation. With only one side driving I could not go back, if I went forward I would drop over a 10 ft cliff. I ended up tying the machine off to a small tree to hold it from going over the cliff and lifting the front end of the machine to get it turned in the right direction going down hill. With the engine off and me walking along side the machine, I was able to drift and push the machine to where I could safley get in it and drive it out.

By hillbillymax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I think I found the problem. My kids where riding the max yesterday and it poped the drive chain off. After a quick repair out in the field I got the max back home and started trying to figure out why the chain came off. I found that one of the mounting bolts on the bottom of the t-20 was missing. this caused the tras to drop down and misalign the chain causing it to pop off.

I bought this machine used and so far have had to fix all kinds of problem. I guess when I had all the axels out replaceing all the bearings I should have just tore it down all the way to see if there was anything else wrong.

I don't know what happened to this bolt on the trans as it is not in the bottom of the machine and the mounting hole on the frame is elongated like the bolt was tearing it up. So it looks like I am going to have to remove the trans see if the houseing is striped out where the bolt goes. If so will have to re-tap it and then find a way to fix the frame and get everything re-aligned. Any suggestions on this????

This machine is a 97 Max IV the hour meter has 260 hrs on it when I bought it, now it has 265. I thought that it seemed to be in good shape. Well I was wrong. So far I have replaced all the bearings, had to have the drive sprocket taken to a machine shop and repaired, replaced 4 ideler sprockets and both the drive chains. I need to replace all the chains but those damm o-ring chains are alot $$$. Now I have this trans problem. I have spent more time working on this thing than riding it. Is this going to be the norm and it will break all the time? Do I need to sell this thing and just get a 4 wheeler? I am new to these things have only had this max a month. Any advice would be nice....

By Mike Longest on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hillbilly

In reference to your last paragraph, YES things will always
be that way with your machine, untill you restore the entire
machine. You have bought something with years of abuse and rigging.

As Richard Clark states. these machines do not take kindly to
part repairs, if you do not restore ENTIRE machine then something
will most likley always be broke, I suggest you contact Richard Clark
and do a complete tear down and restoration, as he does on this
Richard;s Relics site.

Sorry to give you bad news, it is just the truth, otherwise perhaps
you would be better to sell machine and buy something either
new or in new condition, this applies to both 4 wheelers and our real
ATV's

Mike Longest

By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Recreatives has changed the frame design on newer models. There are no longer slots for the transmission to drop down through. They are drilled holes the bolt goes through so there is no chance of the transmission popping out of the slots. There is also a bracket that is welded between the frame rails under the transmission. One fix that I can think of is use a piece of 1" x 1/4" x 9" long piece of steel flat bar. Drill 2 holes in it where the transmission mounting bolts go through and drill a hole at each end of the flat bar. Drill the frame to match the end holes.This way the transmission is attached to the frame by 2 orignal bolts on each side and the 2 new bolts that you put in. You will strengthen the frame and fix the oblong slot. You will probably have to fix the threads in the transmission unless the bolt just worked itself loose. If the threads are boogered, use a Heli-coil to fix it.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hillbilly, Your max must have had hellish abuse. Even regular chains should last for about 300 hours with proper tension. You should get about 1000 hours from the o-ring chain. I don't know why some people just get in and drive a machine until it falls apart - and then be made at the machine and the manufacturer

To fix the frame, you can fill the gap with weld and grind down to original depth and thickness.

I agree with Mike, fix it right completely or get something else. These machines work very well when maintained. If something breaks,don't just fix the broken part, find out why it broke - something major is wrong when so much needs to be repaired.

By JOHN on Unrecorded Date: Edit

NOT ALL ATV'S HAVE THESE PROBLEMS, HAVE YOU EVER
LOOKED INTO GETTING ONE WITH HYDROSTATIC DRIVE AND
HYDRAULIC WHEEL MOTORS. THE FRONT END LOADER (BOBCAT) HAS BEEN BUILT THIS WAY FOR OVER 30 YEARS
AND THEY HAVE VERY FIEW PROBLEMS, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE USED COMMERCIALLY SEVERAL HOURS PER DAY.
THE LAWN MOWER INDUSTRY IS FOLLOWING SUITE.
NOW THE ATV INDUSTRY IS WAKING UP, AND THESE
MACHINES AREN'T THAT MUCH HIGHER THAN THE OLDER
STYLE.

By Sam Keys on Unrecorded Date: Edit

John

You are not being fair, comparing a junk old 6x6 to
an new 17000$ vehicle, your machine may be very good
when new, but if someone buys it and completely destroys
it, it too will need repair.

Why do'nt you have Richard Clark do a product review
on your machine? Otherwise do I hear EM2000 all over again

Sam Keys

By hillbillymax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well after reading some of your responses and taking a look at the max I found some more problems. The frame down by the trans, on the right side has a big crack in it. Starting at the front mounting slot, going all the way down to the bend in the frame. (How does that happen?)

The tans looks to be ok I ran a tap through the hole to clean it up and a bolt will tighten up that is a plus.

Got the sander out and sanded all the paint off both sides of the frame to look for anymore cracks all ok. I got out the trusty welder and fixed the crack after geting everything lined up and straight. To fix the mounting holes I cut some slots in some washers and welded them to the outside of the frame and filled the gaps. I think I am going to modify the frame and box it in around where the trans mounts, has anyone done this? This should strengthen this area greatly.

Everything else looks to be ok. I will replace the chains with new ones while I have the max tore down again. Is it realy worth the cost of the o-ring chanins as compaired to regular #50 chain? We use #60 and #50 chain on some of our farm machinery and it holds up real good as long as it is kept oiled and tight. Anyone have any thoughts on this.

thanks for the help

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hillbillymax, When the O-ring chain became an option, I was told to expect five times the life as compared to regular chain. Assuming it does not get destroyed; with reduced adjustment time, replacement time, and peace of mind, it appears to me to be cost effective.

If you have regular chain, it was probably just worn out with 265 hours (250 to 300 hours is what I expect to get from regular chain with frequent "correct tension" adjustment. A lot depends on how you use your machine. My demonstrator gets put to the test every time I take it out (going over big logs, stopping midway on a 45 degree slope and restarting a couple of times, doing several tight turns, climbing in and out of "v" gullies, etc. etc. I will only get about 200 hours on a set of regular chains. I have not put very many hours on machines with o-ring chains, but I have had machines in for service with the o-ring chains and I think they are all getting the stated five times expected life. The big thing is "not too tight and not too loose".

The crack probably came after the bolts started working loose. When chains and sprockets get out of line, they put strain on everything. I hope your experience alerts all owners to check the tranny mounting bolts for tightness (I have mentioned it as something to do a time or two). And yes, the reason I know is that I had a customer with the same problem (he was having primary drive chains breaking). I had one heck of a time getting the drive belt off, telling me that something was wrong. I can't stress enough that things usually don't just break, something is wrong to cause part failure and it often goes to or comes from other things being wrong.

By hillbillymax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Guy's

Thanks for all the help and insite. I boxed the frame down by the tans and put it all back together. Not sure why they don't do this at the factory. It took me about 2 hrs to sand, cut, grind, weld, and re-paint the area. Anyway put the max back together and ran it hard to see if everything would hold together. It appears to be all fixed now. Now I just need to replace the chains. I am guessing that the chains are original on the max they are O-ring chains. Except for the drive chains that I replaced, they are just regular roller chain..

I took the old o-ring chains off put them in the parts washer to get all the crud off them then soaked them in chain/bar oil overnight. They look to be in pretty good shape but I think I will replace them anyway.

The one thing I do like about this MAX is that it is very easy to work on. I can now have it tore down in about 30 min. with the engine, seats, and wheels removed.

I do have another question. When I was riding it yesterday in our fresh snow, I would spin it around to the right and the engine would start to die like it was not getting fuel. A couple of times it did die. It would start right back up once it was sitting still. Now I could spin to the left with no problems. I think the carb is sucking air not fuel when this happens. Has anyone had this problem before? 18 HP Briggs motor.

By Howard Hoover on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Depending on wich side of the tank the fuel line is on probably the right if your spinning to the right it sounds to me like it could be throwing all the fuel over to the left side of the tank away from the fuel line and sucking air into the fuel line.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

naw howerd he says efect is emediet, fuel starvation during spin sugests a failur inside carb, as uncoverd fuel line wouldent efect contence of carb emeadiatly,rather staling and power loss would tend to follow after spins,ect..

By shane forsythe (Shanefor1) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hi dave, howard , all,
i had this problem in my car recently
sounds like crap in fuel blocking carb jets,

engine dies crap settles and the engine starts like nothing wrong.

because when you drive on bumps you stir this stuff up and a blocked jet results

or in this case do donuts to stir it up

also could be water in fuel.

clear out carb, fuel lines change filter and drain tank looking for crap /water in fuel.
shane.

By hillbillymax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I am guessing that the problem is in the carb. The kids have been riding the heck out of the max now that it is fixed and there is snow on the ground. With no problems except when they spin to the right. I will have to take the carb off and give it a good cleaning. The gas in the tank is good and the tank is clean. New filter and it is clean also.

Do they make oil coolers for the BS motor?

By jessiebritton (Attexpimpin) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

my 16hp vanguard did this 2 an it was cuzz it didint have enuff gas in the carb bolw i fixed this by bendin the flote up a lil bit an it worcks good it never did it agin

By doubledog (4.255.42.130) on : Edit

No spark,

just got a Max 2 from grandpa thats been sitting outside for 8-10-years. It has a koehler 2-cycle twin in it.just got the motor unstuck w/marvel mystery oil soaking in the plug holes for 24-hrs.
engine turns over fine but no spark. Ive traced the circuit & have power into & out of the motor.
of the three wires going to the black nitto box,
2 have power but only one blinks when the engine
is turned over,is this normal??I dont get any power from the nitto box to the coil when turning over. need a guru please

By doubledog (4.255.42.130) on : Edit

No spark,

just got a Max 2 from grandpa thats been sitting outside for 8-10-years. It has a koehler 2-cycle twin in it.just got the motor unstuck w/marvel mystery oil soaking in the plug holes for 24-hrs.
engine turns over fine but no spark. Ive traced the circuit & have power into & out of the motor.
of the three wires going to the black nitto box,
2 have power but only one blinks when the engine
is turned over,is this normal??I dont get any power from the nitto box to the coil when turning over. need a guru please