Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through September 7, 1999	4
	Archive through February 6, 2001	14
	Archive through March 18, 2001	2
	Archive through September 10, 2002	42

By WALLEYE713 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

FOR ARGO OWNERS WITH TRACKS
I HAVE 50 HOURS ON MY TRACKS. I NEVER TAKE THEM OFF BECAUSE I AM EITHER IN SNOW OR MUD. THERE IS ALWAYS SOME GRAVEL ROAD AND WOODS USE GOING TO OR FROM THE SNOW OR MUD. MY HALF METAL PIECES ARE STILL INSTALLED AND I RUN 7LBS TO KEEP FROM THROWING THE TRACKS ON HARD TURNS. I AM HAVING NO PROBLEMS AT ALL. I WAS WONDERING IF IT WOULD BE TIME TO PULL THE HALF PIECES AND DROP THE PSI?
WHAT ADVISE DO YOU HAVE FOR ME?
THANKS
STEVE

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I personally wouldn't even consider running my tires at 7 psi. Mine are usually at 2.5 in the tracks and only last winter did they climb out because the snow was just about melted and the paved road and track didn't like each other. I don't know what the point of the extensions are, but I don't see how they would help since the tracks are made so that they fit over the tires at their recommended tire pressure. I would say you could get rid of the extensions and drop your pressure. They may seem too tight but they are supposed to be. What model ARGO are you using?? If its the bigfoot, then the extensions may be necessary from what I am told.

By jdhoath argoguru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

if you have a bigfoot you should have 28 links per side, a vanguard you will have 27, do not use half links and you should only run 5 psi in the tires maximum. I run 3 psi in the tires with tracks. tracks are hard on bearings to begin with and running 7 lbs. will really kill them quick plus give you a terribly hard ride. you need wheel extentions with super tracks, and you do not need them with standard tracks.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

One thing that just came back to mind was this past winter at the cottage. I put the tracks on and when I ran it in the bush, I found that turning a lot with the tracks on really was hard on my brakes. They really heated up and didn't work well. They had to be pulled twice as far to turn and it was almost like the pressure in the cylinders was really low. Is this common with tracks? Before this year, I couldn't go in the bush much with my ARGO because I wasnt' really able to leave the cottage property, but is the brake thing common? I have an ARGO MAGNUM as most of you probably already know.

By fred on Unrecorded Date: Edit

lilcheif: It sounds like you have a vacum leak. The Brigs. engine is a sealed system, if it is sucking air it will do exactly what you described. Check the valve covers to see if they are tight. I think they are supposed to be at 70 inch pounds, this needs to be done with a torque wrench, if you over tighten the nut,s on the valve covers, You Will Crack Them. Any Briggs Dealer should have the proper torque wrench. The only other thing that I think it could be is the Pre Cleaner on the air filter may be full of oil.

By Howard Hoover on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Can anyone tell me who makes the bodies for Max?
If I`m not mistaken the manufacturer is
somewhere in Mich.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

EXTREMELY URGENT HELP NEEDED!!

I am going to the cottage tomorrow (Friday) and I have to put the tracks on our ARGO. Their is at least 3 feet in areas where it hasn't been touched and I have to groom some trails in a development. The tracks aren't on now, but I heard that using ratchet straps is the easiest way to pull the tracks ends together. I bought a ratchet strap rated for a max load of 750 LBS. Is this enough to do the job or do I need a heavier strap?? I need to know asap as I have to take the one back and get a different one before tomorrow afternoon. Any and all help is appreciated.

By Barry Smythe (Barrysmythe) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David,

There is a very easy way to put on your tracks which I
have used for several years. It is really simple. All you
need are a couple of lengths of 3/8" rope (say 28"long)
and two pieces of 1x1 or 1x2 about 12" long.

Bring the track ends together as close as possible by
muscle power, then make two loops through the closest
holes of both ends of the tracks. Tie the ends of each
loop with a reef knot. Then slip the wood pieces
through each loop, one at a time, and twist each loop,
tourniquet-style to make it smaller and smaller until the
two ends of the track come together in alignment. This
method is really easy to align the ends. Before you
start tightening the loops, place the pin through the first
lug of the track end so it is ready to tap with a hammer
through all the lugs. Try it and you will like it.

I have used clamps and ratchet straps and found the
ropes the easiest. I carry the ropes and twisters under
the seat at all times so it is easy to fix things in the field.

When you are putting on the tracks, you have to let all
the air out of the front and back tires. I use an air pig
and a compresser. There is almost nothing to it.

Let me know how it works.

If you already have the ratchet straps, they would work
the same way...through the holes in the tracks that are
closest to the track ends.

Good luck,

Barry

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Barry, Thanks for the help. I will try it as I don't think the straps I bought will work as the hooks are rounded and they may not hold in the holes.

I would appreciate any other methods that I can use if I really do a crappy job.

By newmax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

you might be able to do the same thing i do with my max tracks. i use a vacume cleaner with an adapter and suck the air out of the 4 corner tires, until they are square. put the caps back on and you should be able to bring the 2 ends together no problem. with rhis method i can almost slide my tracks righ on

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

How do you use the vaccumm to get the air out?? That could be the best idea I have heard yet. How time consumming though?

By newmax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

you buy an adapter at sears. it is a small nose piece that fits over the valve stem. it takes a few seconds for each tire. once they are square they a pretty small and easy to fit the max traxks over the tires. then take off the caps. it takes me less tha 10 minutes to put each track on. i got this idea from this board someone had a post on it.works great.

By Barry Smythe (Barrysmythe) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

That vacuum idea is great. Doesn't the suction take the
beads off the rims? I guess that is OK as long as you
have lots of air pressure (tank) to blast them back on
tight.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

what type of vaccum can you use? A shopvac or a central vac.`

By newmax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

i just use a small shop vac. no it didn't pop mine off the rims. it will work allot better if the tires are warm. i have a heater in my shed. it really does work real good. i am not kidding when i say i can just about slide the tracks on.

By newmax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

had one of my tracks come half off today on the trail. luckily got it back on. has anyone had their max tracks come off before

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I just got back from a weekend of a lot of ARGOing in snow ranging from 1 foot to 4, 4 1/2 feet. When I was on the roads, it was fine, but as soon as I got into snow that really slowed me down, the back left tire collapsed. WHen I say collapsed, I mean it bent and literally folded in 3 places making the tracks run really bad on the left side. I inflated it several times to 3 psi and after a little while it was down again. I inflated it to 10 psi this morning and left and when I came back to the cottage after grooming some trails in a development, it was just starting to collapse again. It was around -20 celcius to -28 celcius. What would cause this?? It was only the one tire, and it is a good tire as of the last time I used the ARGO before this weekend (Christmas).

Any input would be much appreciated.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

In addition to my previous post after newmax's, I didn't really have a problem getting the tracks on my ARGO on Friday night after we got to the cottage. It did take a while at first because i didn't really have the right equipment. The clamp that ODG sells that looks sort of like this [--] worked to pull the track ends together but The best way to do it is get a ratchet extension with a joint in it so that you can put the one end in the end of a drill and the other end on the clamp and just pull the trigger, and it is done in a few minutes. The way I had to do it was use a manual ratchet and click by click the ends came together. It took just under 2 hours to put both tracks on, inflate the tires and be out of the garage. Thanks for all the input on getting them on.

Newmax, I really liky your idea of getting the tires square and then not having to clamp the ends together. I need to get a shop vac for the cottage this year and if I had time on Friday, I would have gone to sears and got the end you were mentioning. That may likely be the way I do it next year.

By Timothy Schotanus (Mudbuster) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

NEWMAX are you running the factory rubber max track? I have them and have not had any trouble with the tracks coming off. I was fooling around lowering the tire pressure and had a tire loose its bead(not a k-rim). Fortunatly I was still on my own property and already had the k-rims but had not installed them. Since the bead was already broken the tires are now on k-rims. Lets ride sometime. We are only 1+ hour away from each other. How's the riding up there?

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Newmax-- I had my tracks come off last year. My tire pressure was way too low and the back climbed out while turning where the hard packed layer of snow had melted and the road was just sticking up enough to catch the back as it went over and pulled off. Now I make sure my tires are inflated properly as I thought that I had too much air in it as the vehicle was going really slow. The year before that, I wasn't able to drive on the roads at my cottage because I was only just 16 and didn't have my licence and therefore, I didn't know how fast the ARGO should travel on a road with tracks. Years before that, my dad always drove while taking my sister and I for rides. This year, I finally had long enough to fully test it on the road with tracks and properly inflated tires except for the one back left that keeps collapsing in deep snow. All is know is that in deep snow where the front of the ARGO body is displacing the snow, you can walk faster (if you can walk in snow that deep) but the ARGO will not loose its power to push through. The tracks keep you above the snow a lot and you won't sink in the argo.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Mike, I had a track come part way off early on after making a hard turn in real deep snow. It went back on with a slight turn the other way (I was making a sharp turn to the left and the right track tried to come off - making a slight turn to the right walked the right track back on). I checked my air pressure and I only had about two pounds in my tires (it had cooled off quite a bit on the trip to where I was riding and I had forgotten to check air pressure before I started).
Did you check your air pressure by any chance? I have found that each twenty degree change in temperature changes tire pressure by about one PSI.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

theres a good chance that tire is now a leaker, you got some damage of some sort, or if your lucky its water in the valve stem frezing up n letin out the air

By newmax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Yes Tim i have the factory tracks. My tires were way to low on air pressure. my air pump ran out of charge and couln't finish putting enough air in the tires. so i tried it anyway. big mistake. i won't do that again. i did walk the track back on. Tim the riding up here is awesome the trails are nice. i can get on them right from my house and ride for hours and hours. i havn't even been on half the trails. I would love to ride with you i just wouldn't want to slow you down i am not a very fast rider. and i know you really know how to ride.

By Timothy Schotanus (Mudbuster) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The lowest I like to run my tires at is 2 maybe 2 1/2 pounds. Without the tracks I go lower. NEWMAX, maybe next weakend for a ride?

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hey new max,
yah tim s. and i do love to ride fast but we can ride slow too!
it should not be a problem,
we'l have to get together n do it soon!

By Zoomer on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I'm amazed at the tire pressure you guys are running. I know these are low pressure beasts, but I can't keep my tires inflated at 2.5 lbs. I'm running 5-6 usually, and even at that have some bead leak problems. Do you have some special mounting or sealer that helps? My tires go flat at 2 lbs in a blink of an eye.

By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I'm running Goodyear Rawhides and if I run under 4 psi, the beads never hold.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Zoomer, it is the newer k-rims (rim made for RI by Kawasaki with a very good bead lock groove). On any rim, but the older rims for sure, mnake sure the bead area is clean and not nicked up (just water for lubricant). You can also use a bead lock product or a good quality siliconized latex caulk/sealer. Need to be sure and get the stuff on both edges of the bead that contact the rim.

By Dave Johnston on Unrecorded Date: Edit

My Argo Kawi engine was backfiring and missing. The WONDERFUL local dealer suggested I get it ported for higher elevations. I live at 4000 feet and usually am much higher. Worked like a charm. So first suggestion is to make sure you have your machine ported right for the elevation you are at.
Second suggestion, which I made else where is keep in mind OLD GAS is GUMMY Gas. Gas is not designed to sit around for months on end. If you fill with 8 gallons and only go out on occasion, some of that gas is going to sit in the tank for a very long period of time. It will gum up your fuel filter, carb and injection ports. Using gas line cleaner does not work well and fuel stabilizer is expensive. I usually drain the gas out if I know I am not going out in the next couple of weeks and dump it into the car. Then next time I go, I put in fresh gas.

By jdrummond on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hey dave johnston, what did you mean you had it ported, you had machine work done or did you get it jetted?

By Ken_Keyes on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Tracks or Tires??? Just bought an older MAXII to get me up to some property I own in Idaho in the winter. I had intended on installing tracks on this machine for just that purpose. I found that this is alot more costly than expected and can put more stress on the axles than they can stand (old hollow ones). I have to change tires and wheels also. My tires are 22" Rahwides like brand new. My question... in soft fresh snow without trax is this thing going to get around ok, or be stuck and high centered all the time?? Never had any experience with this in the snow so anyone who has can help. Guess I should have checked all this out before hand... but too late now. This thing MUST be dependable transportation in the snow as there wont be anyone up there to help me out. Thanks. Also, anyone who has any advice on where I can get a trailer to pull in the snow for hauling supplies (about500#) or has had any experience with this your advice would be appreciated.

By Attex Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ken: With my experience in snow (not much) with my Attex, your going to have trouble. My Attex does not like snow. With powder, it's really bad. I do have bald tires on it though. The thing sinks up to the tub, and then I'm done. If it's wet packed snow, you might be alright.

Now for the really bad news. You already know how expensive it is to put tracks on your old Max. So you either need to buy a new Max or new tracked type vehicle. Sorry for the news.

By Greg on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a 1994/95 MAX2 and I have been thinking about tracks for snow use. After reading these postings it sounds like the tracks are very expensive and finnicky. Any thoughts as to what tracks will be best for this model and are there after market tracks that are less pricey than RI's tracks? I bought the unit with solid axles so I think I may be one step ahead already. Thanks for your comments!

By Jim Walsh on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Wondering about TRu-tracs, are they comparable to the Argo tracks. I have a 1993 8 wheel magnum that I bought last month.Tracks at the dealer here are about $2000, I live in Newfoundland and am looking to spend less than that. Any comments.
Thanks,
Jim

By bigwolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Ken and Greg,

Just to add to attex bobs note, I live up in Michigan were we get a lot of snow also. The maximum depth of snow that any type of atv can handle with just wheels installed will be determined by the amount of ground clearance you have. Once you have hit the frame and high centered you are all done! With the R.I. rubber track kit installed, you can handle any depth of snow period! The R.I. reinforced rubber tracks are as good as it gets! The alternate brand tracks available is Tru Trax, however, they are not as wide, and will not provide as good of traction. The cost is less but the performance is not the same.

Ken you can also still buy and install the solid axles for the older max machines. The cost of the R.I. track kit is about $3000, and that includes the tracks, wheel spacers, outer axles extension/support cages and bearings for all six wheels, and axle reinforcement bracket to span accross the bottom side of the undercarriage. You will also need to buy and install the solid axles and you will need the 21 inch Goodyear Rawhide tires in addition to the R.I. track kit.

Greg you are one major step ahead and almost ready for tracks with the solid axles already installed, however, you still need to finsh preparing the unit to run tracks.

The R.I. tracks are the best hands down! If you run about 7 PSI air pressure in the tires then you will not have and type of finnicky problems at all, in fact you will quicly discover that any type of terrain conditions is not much of a challege with the tracks installed.

I do beleive that Richard clark has solid axle kits and wheel spacers available for good costs, and or if you would like, I can help both of you fellows out with complete package kits, or just partial kits. As a new Max dealer, I would like to make some sales, so I can offer to help out and pass them along to you down near dealer cost. If you are interested, contact me via my web site at address www.motownatvs.com, and if you want to buy the solid axles and wheel spacers from Richard, you can reach him via this web site Route 6x6.

Fred the Max Dealer out in Montana can also work with you and help you out, or possibly one of the other Max Dealers in your area may be willing to help you out if you would prefer.

I don't think you will find a better offer any where else, and you will be glad that you invested in the R.I. track kits rather than an alternate brand.

Thanks
Gary
aka "big wolf"

By Tim Mueller on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Jim,
I have a set of Tru-Trax. I work for a Sheriff's Office out here in Oregon and we also dispatch all local fire departments as well. During a bad recent snow/ice storm the main radio repeater went down. It had to be fixed or 106,000 county resident's fire/EMS service would be seriously hampered with no way to dispatch them. The 911 director called me in a panic and made arrangements for the radio technician to meet me. We loaded up my Argo Bigfoot, all dressed up with it's Tru-Trax on, and headed to the hills (as far as we could go in the snow anyway...). We off loaded the Bigfoot and drove it up the mountain 4 miles in packed snow, about 3 feet deep with another foot of fresh powder on top of that. We had to cut a fallen tree or two out of our way, but we made it and the tech got the repeater up and running. We would have never made it without the Tru-Trax on my Argo.

I have the optional cleats. I took the cleats off before this trip and am glad I did, they work good on ice, but dig in too much in snow. The object is to stay 'on top' of the snow.

By Dave Evans on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I would like to know if when using traxs on pavement does it shake your maching apart?

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Dave, I can most definatly answer that and can tell you from my own experiance from this week, and I was running mine only 7 hours ago at the cottage. It shakes the hell out of the machine with tracks on on any hard packed snow or pavement. Its definatly a rough ride and i find that it also slightly deforms my machine, for example, my steering levers are always against the dash block but as soon as the tracks go on, they are not touching the block. They always stay out about 5 millimeters.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

While were on the track topic. Here is an even easier way to get your tracks on but you have to have the right stuff. Get the vehicle off the ground at least enough to get the tracks under the wheeles. I like to drive the argo onto the tracks while they are on the garage floor. Then, block it up, and position the tracks so that when you bring the ends together, they meet at the space between the second last and last tires. Then, if you have one, (its a tracks puller thing from ODG that has a socket type bolt on it and the bars go into the holes in the tracks. But what happens is that when you have the correct socket size to fit the bar (much bigger than a spark plug socket- i'll let you know the exact size) and a universal joint (looks like the drive shaft on the underside of a truck with the coupled thing in it. ) and then an extension that fits the half inch drive, and get a drill that opens up enough to fit the extension into, just start the drill, and the tracks come together smoothly, evenly, tight, and all you do is drive the rod and collar through and thats it. It took me 30 minutes to get both tracks on and that was doing it manually with the socket, no drill to drive them together. I took pictures of the process and when they are developed, i'll put them up on my site. I have some great winter photos of my ARGO as well. (don't have any until now) I just hope they turn out alright.

By Steve Whitehouse on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Jim, I take it with your last statement that you really like the tru trax system. I was thinking about buying a set for my Big Foot. What size tire's are you running and what type? Also are they easy and fast to put on and what other problems have you had? Any info would be appriceated.

Thanks
Steve

By Kevin Watson (Kevin) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

New super tracks are being installed tomorrow on my Conquest.
The test will be Saturday when I try and skid some logs out of the woods.

By Barry Smythe on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Kevin,

I think you will like the super tracks for your Conquest.
Watch out for driving on ice, however, especially on a
hill, since the plastic really slides easily. I installed the
optional ice cleats (not expensive) and it made a huge
difference. In snow the cleats show no effect but on ice
they save a wild ride.

Good luck

Barry Smythe

By Kevin Watson (Kevin) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks Barry.
I have one small hill to climb so that will be part of the test tomorrow.
Should be more snow than ice so I don't anticipate any problems.
I'll be sure to get a few pictures.

By jdrummond on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hi guys, I've been thinking about getting super tracks for my vanguard.will i need axle extentions to make them work?

By Big Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well guys I just found a real good use and reason to install and use wheel spacers on a Max IV machine. I was out back yesterday running around through the mud and hills behind the house with my Max IV, with the 26 inch wheels installed only, standard set up, no wheel spacers or any thing else.

I was doing a demo ride with an entire family on board, every thing was going fine, we were mucking along through the deep trench two track trails full of mud and water. We were headed all the way out back to the hills that were made some years ago, by heavy earth moving equipment that dug out and created a huge storm water retention basin for our city. We started climbing up the hill grade, and I stayed right in the middle of the worst mud to show them how the machine would perform. We climbed the muck for about 150 to 200 yards, when I started having trouble with the mud build up in the right side wheel well area. The mud build up got so bad, that I had to bail out of the two track trenches and get it up on the grass. The build up got so bad on the left side that it was dragging that side and almost quite moving. I had to get out of the machine and reach up into the wheel wells to clear away some of the mud, so we could contine on our ride. I was shocked at first and embarrassed for the moment any way! That bad feeling went away, when I saw just how bad the mud build up was, and the guy told me that he could not have made it through that stuff even with his big moto cross dirt bike or 4x4 quad! We never got stuck, it was just inconvenient to have to bail out of the trenches and clear away the build up.

After that minor problem was solved, we proceeded to tear up the mud covered hills, running up and down 45 degree inclines fully over loaded, like they were not even there.

I think if I would have installed a set of wheel spacers, to push the wheels out farther away from the body area, and had more clearance for mud build up, I probably would have been able to just keep going. This may have either solved that problem completely, or it would have made it even worse, by creating some 60 inch diameter clay mud caked wheels.

This was our first major thaw around here in South Eastern Michigan. Our mud around here is primarily pure heavy clay, the kind of stuff that just builds up and cakes up the bottom of your boots and does the same thing to wheels. I am not sure which type of muck is worse, our heavy clay muck, or the silty type black muck found in the swamps up here.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Gary, Next time you get in gunk like that, try backing up 25 or 30 feet (fast) every now and then (before it gets caked on real well). It should allow your tires to clean out well enough to keep going. One of the "not so good" things of having our tires on backwards. Having extenders on would give you the worst mud bath you can imagine!

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Fred, when you say "one of the not so good things of having our tires on backwards" what??? What is the not so good part and why would the tires be on backwards?? Are they usually supposed to run the other way?

By Big Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Fred,

I am not so sure that backing up would have solved that particular problem, although I will give it a try next time out. It would have probably been better if I was moving along at a higher speed, instead of just putting along granny style.

I am running the tires with the point of the the V-tread leading, that seems to provide for the most traction and digging power, versus the V-tread trailing set up. Are you saying that reversing my current tread direction set up would cause less mud build up in the wheels wells?

I am not sure if it would make much difference in this sticky clay stuff. I do find that if there is a little bit of water puddled up with the clay, then it does not seem to cake up bad at all. The water seems to counter act the sticky stuff good enough to not cause a huge build up.

The worst part was later in the evening, when I had to go back out in the pouring rain, and hose off the mud for about two solid hours. The temperature also dropped in the evening and I was soaked to the bone well before I finished the job. It never even occured to me to go back in the house and put on my rain suit or my gortex outfit!

I had to hose off that clay while it was still wet and not frozen, if you let it set up and dry or freeze, you would be forced to use a hammer and chisel or dynamite to clean it up later.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Yes, David, most applications use our skid steer tires (Goodyear super terra grip and rawhide III) mounted with the "v" going the other way for traction and the ability to clean the tread in mud. We use the tread the other way for propulsion in the water. For some of us, having the ability to back out of a problem area (better traction going in reverse and the machine's weight in the rear) is also a plus. In some mud conditions, the tires will not clean and build up tremendous amounts of mud just like Gary was talking about.

By dt5428 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Fred I can't resist.LOL.................

"For some of us, having the ability to back out of a problem area (better traction going in
reverse and the machine's weight in the rear) is also a plus."

Maybe you need an Argo with the weight in the front which would be the same as your Max going in reverse.Just having fun Fred did not mean it in any negitive way.

Later,Dan

By Timothy Schotanus (Mudbuster) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

If you give it enough throttle the mud sticks to the guy behind you instead of your machine.
PS: Sorry to anyone that was behind me at Humphry last year.

By barry smythe on Unrecorded Date: Edit

jdrummond,

You do need axle extensions for supertracks because
they are very wide. This is a casting for each hub-end
which allows the use of long bolts instead of the short
studs for each tire...not a big deal.

Barry

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Gary, assuming you still have your tires like the pictures in your custom cave, yes, they would clean better if you reversed them, but they won't go as well in water. If you have an open pond, the mud washes off real well if you run your machine in reverse for a few minutes. Actually, most mud will just crack and fall off when it is dry with low pressure tires. I never wash my machine, just vacuum out the inside regularly.

Dan, No problem (I do have a sense of humor, too). But, that would only be true if I had tires on the Argo backward for an amphibious vehicle (Then I could sit on the hood and drive the machine backwards - I'd almost have a max). Actually, listen up Argo people, there is one advantage I can think of to having the engine in front. When floating a river, the heavy end wants to go first so (I assume) in an argo you get to float facing forward, In a max, if you are just floating, the back end will swing around and you float backwards (If you want to go front going downstream, you have to keep your engine going or use paddles to keep it lined out).

By jdrummond on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Barry
Thanx for the info on the extentions, I appreciate it.

Jim

By Big Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Fred,

This clay stuff does not simply crack and fall off up here Amigo! When I mentioned that if you do allow it to dry or freeze, you will need to use a jack hammer or dynamite to clear it away.

Let me tell you just how bad the clay mud build up was, it was completely built up and packed in behind and between the wheels and the body, and packed around the axles and bearing cages, and on top of the wheels between the body and wheels. There was also weeds and grass mixed in the mud very nicely, so that would have made for some real good Egyptian style brick mortar. I do not have a pond of water here to float it in to help clean it up, that may have helped a little, however the weeds had it all tied together very well. It took a combination of digging it out with my bare hands and rinsing away the mud, in several stages.

What else happened as a result of the massive clay mud build up problem was, it caused the "O"-Ring drive chain on the left side, from the jack shaft to the center wheel sprocket to stretch and sag, which also caused the chain to pop and jump when the build up occured. I gave the entire machine a close inspection this afternoon, and found the stretched chain. The chain take up idler is currently set at about mid point of its adjustment, and when I do readjust it to take out the chain sag, there will not be much adjustment left on that chain. I only have about 25 to 30 hours on my machine, and I am already at the end of adjustment on that chain now!

Not real sure what to think about this at the moment!

There is no question in my mind about how well I do maintain my machine. I know for a fact every chain was adjusted correctly after the break in period! I went through this machine top to bottom at that point in time, and always spot check things periodically.

By Kevin Watson (Kevin) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Here are the pictures from today ...
http://community.webshots.com/album/123480482DXEXjQ
Select "normal" to view.


The tracks are fantastic!
Now I need the ice cleats for those "off shore" adventures.

By Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Gary, we have been in that same situation once at Deepwater. Myself, Troy, and another Maxer got into some really stickly mud near a lake. My 14hp II would barely move at about 5mph. Troy had a 25hp IV that would move faster but it was tough. The other rider had a 25hp IV also but his belt was messed up and his machine couldn't move. Getting in the water at the edge of the lake freed it up almost instantly. I've done the same thing with a 4x4 quad at Finger Lakes state park and it nearly stops them also.

Although it's always possible, I really doubt your chain is stretched. Sounds to me like you have something bent. Chains usually only get longer when the pins and rollers get sloppy. The o-rings keep them lubed and that is why they last so much longer. I think you should look close at the axles and bearings around that chain.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Gary, sounds like you had a mess. I had forgotten that you have bearing cages. I was thinking the mud was just on the tires and wheels. You might want to invest in one of those electric pressure washers (I bought one off ebay last year for about $30 - 1300 lbs pressure - would work well for that. I used mine to wash the cedar siding on our house before we re-oiled it).

I'm a little confused about your chain problem. The Max IV doesn't have a jack shaft. Main drive goes from the tranny to the rear axle. Rear final drive goes from rear axle to center axle and front final drive goes from center axle to front axle. Knowing you had mud buildup bad enough to stop the vehicle, I wouldn't be surprised if you got some chain stretch, but both sides should have stretched the same (unless you were going along a side hill and slip steering so only one side was propelling the machine). I'm going to guess, but I'm thinking that maybe your adjuster for that chain (left rear final drive) just slipped under the strain (bolts have to be really tight on the adjuster sprocket to keep it in position). I can't imagine complete chain stretch in 25 or 30 hours. If you heard the chain jumping sprocket teeth, you probably should check to make sure you don't have a broken tooth on your rear axle sprocket or center axle sprocket.

By Big Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well I dove into the machine this afternoon for a few hours and inspected every thing top to bottom. There is no damage to the drive train at all. There is no bend damage any where at all, every thing looks just fine, axles, sprockets, chain adjusters, frame, every thing is still in its normal position! Non of the chain adjusters are looses and non slipped at all. When I get down on tightening up stuff, it is either tight or it breaks from my excessive force. On the left hand side, the "O" Ring chain from the transmission to the rear axle was stretched a little, and the "O"-Ring chain from the rear axle to the center axle was stretched a lot, and was sagging. The "O"-Ring chain from the center axle to the front axle was just slightly stretched. I did not even need to touch or adjust the right side at all, those chain tensions were just fine.

I am happy with the amount of adjustment travel left for all the chain adjusters, except that one on the left side, for the rear axle to center axle adjustment, there is only about 25% adjustment travel left on that one.

Again there is nothing broke or damaged or bent, just that one chain is stretched!

I do have a real nice gas motor driven pressure washer that I could have used to clean it up. Next time I definately will do that.

I keep telling myself that it was worth doing the demo rides, that family will be back the end of this month to order a new Max IV-950T machine, and possibly a second machine also! They are a young family, and have been out shopping for four or five new 4x4 quads for the entire family. They plan to haul every thing in a one of those new travel trailers with the toy garage and entry ramp on the back end.

We put her behind the sticks, and seat belted the kids in, and turned her loose out back in the flat area of the field. When they returned they were all clean and dry, and had smiles on their faces.

Afterward the mother said she does not want herself or the young kids riding quads for safety concerns, so she spoke out and put her foot down and told the husband to buy the Max machines for the family instead.

Never under estimate the voice and wishes of the ladies!

By Big Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Sorry about side tracking the original discussion about tracks! Kevin very nice photo's and set up on your Argo!

Hey Thank God the later model Max's have the solid splined axles and matching splined sprocket hubs. From what I have read on one of the other postings about the earlier model Max's shearing the bolts for sprockets and axles. There is little doubt that I would have sheared bolts with the older style set up.

I have looked over this Max IV-950T machine very closely, you are not going to bend the frame, or solid axles, or bearing mounts, and drive train quite that easily. The weakest point of the drive train in that machine is the set of chains that drives from the transmission to the rear axles, and the set of chains that drives from the rear axle to the center axle. Those sets of chains see the highest amount of forces because they drive multiple wheels. The worst thing that happened was I stretched the chains a little bit more, because I probably over loaded them real bad.

I never got stuck, and I did not damage any thing, I just had to clear some build up away, to get move better!

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Gary, How was the weight distributed in your Max on the bad day? Is it possible that the left side of the machine had a lot more weight than the right side? Obviously your drive belt has no slippage and your tranny bands have no slippage - I'm wondering if the 27 HP engine with its high torque was too much for the one chain to handle. If the left side was heavier than the right, there could have been a lot of wheel slippage on the right and the left side with more weight and more mud basically froze up the front and middle wheels and all the engine power went to the left rear wheel. I could see how the chain could stretch. I'm really surprised the master link didn't break.

Just trying to figure out in my mind, why?.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Since this topic is Tracks, I have just scanned in about 15 pictures from last weekend at my cottage with the ARGO- The pics are going to be up on my website hopefully today and tomorrow. They are all taken in very deep snow that I couldn't walk in, or going up steep banks on the side of the road. I invite you all to take a look- they should be up after 3 this afternoon.

www.argomag.50megs.com

By Big Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Fred, The weight distribution was about as good as you can get on that day. Two adults in the front seat, and three small kids in the back seat. For some reason the clay build up was much worse on the left side of the machine, versus the right side. I did not need to clear much of any thing out of the right side, primarily on the left side only.

I did not notice any slippage of the drive belt or transmission. We traveled through the two track trenches up hill for about 200 yards, and the left side loaded up with clay completely, and started dragging down real bad. I heard one pop of the drive chain on the left side, and then one more pop, so I bailed out of the trench to the left side, and heard one additional chain pop when I got up on the weeds and grass area, and then I stopped and got out to check out the problem. I cleared away the worst of the build up, and got back in a took off to finish the ride on the hills.

That is all it took to stretch out the #2 chain on the left side. The #2 chain stretched and sagged much more than the #1 chain did, and I think that is only because the #2 chain is much longer than the #1 chain, so it had more links that it could stretch out.

It did feel like there was plenty of torque and power in the engine and transmission to break that chain, if I had just kept going in that condition.

I am not real pleased about what happened, and I do think this same thing could also happen to any brand machine with a chain drive set up. It would have been much better if both sides had loaded up equally with mud, that would have distributed the torque from the engine and transmission across both drive lines more evenly, which would have resulted in a some what reduced and even amount of chain stretch to both sides.

There is not much more that I can say about this item. I am confident in my analysis of what happened to cause this problem. Thats the beauty and pit fall of running a non differential transmission, in addition to having some substantial amount of engine torque driving it.

By Ed Simon on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Has anyone tried to put tracks on an Argo with 25" tires? I see that the new Advenger is coming out with the larger tires but it would be a pain and expensive to have to switch tires. Are there any other makers of tracks out there? How about some rubber tracks.

By Ed Simon (136.1.1.101) on : Edit

Has anyone tried to use the plastic super tracks on the new Avenger? I heard that argo is offering a new rubber track but the cost is about $3000. I know that the Avenger has 25" tires but could you use the plastic super tracks from a Conquest and just add some additional links?