By Jonathan on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Is there any way to make a brand new Max II easier to steer? I'm disabled, and pulling the levers is difficult for me. What would hapen if I remove the springs in the levers?

By bcripe1 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Jonathan. I am in the same boat as you. I spoke to Richard Clark and he recommended removing the springs. He said he actually removes them on all of his machines. Its pretty easy to do. Just pull the seat, battery and they are right under the battery. I also changed (actually my buddy Charlie) the POS throttle lever and cable and cleaned up the governor and the throttle is now butter smooth. I also changed my seat cushion to 3 inch foam on the bottom and added 5 or so inches to the top and added shoulder harness. Works great except its hard to reach the gear shifter unless I unbuckle. Max is cheaper than an ARGO but now I wish I would have just bought an ARGO to begin with.

Bill Cripe

By Jonathan on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Bill:
Thanks for the info on the springs. I did find them. I'm going to try to loosen the tension by backing he nuts off a little. If that doesn't work, then I'll take the springs off completely.


I was just working on the gear shifter yesterday. I am in the process of making an extension for the gear shifter. It will make the shifter higher up (it's hard for me to reach the shifter) and also be longer so it will be easier to shift gears. Hope it will work.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

just dont make it too long to get floor boards out laiter

By Motown's (Bigwolf) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Bill,

What was the out come of that popping and slapping noise that were talking about in a prior message? Did you find the chain loose and slapping and popping on the sprockets, or was it some thing else? Or it still unsolved?

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

i have chian poping noises now, and leaks in my outer bearing flangets, so i need new sprokets for center axels and have to remove each axel to tighten the flangets(tap with hamer around the part that grips sphiricle bearing on each flanget, the frount one and the rear one)
people use greas or sometimes calk in the flangetrs to seal outside of bearing, theres nothing in mine at this time, and as i tend to drive hard and open the flangets up under the beating, im shure grease wont work for me, calk may for a while, im thinking about trying silicone sealer or calk with a rubber o-ring arround the bearing and sandwiched by the flangets, prehaps this will cut down on water leaks for longer lenth of time,
so whens recreatives going to show us there new axele seals?

By Motown's (Bigwolf) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

You know I have been thinking about these outer bearings and flange seals about every day, and I also spoke to Richard Clark about it breifly. I am just about convinced that it is better off to run the cheaper type sealed bearings versus using a more expensive multi seal type bearing and/or more external sealing device.

I say this because of the harsh conditions and environment that they are used in day in and day out. They are going to fail no matter what grade of bearing that you install, or how ever many seals that you install.

This may sound crazy but I am thinking the best thing that you can do is keep the bearings over greased, and just flat out blow out the bearing seals and just keep them pack with as much grease as you can pumo in there. This is about the only way to keep water and mud or sand from getting inside. Once the these things do get in it's only a matter of time and the bearing is trashed.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

yes i agree,
however i wasent complaining about how much water was leaking threw the bearings themselfes, but threw the flangets wich hold the sphiricle outer bearings, these are hammered into slopy fit by high speed trail rideing and they leak big time!

By Motown's (Bigwolf) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I am with you now about the outer flange plates and seals! I don't think that you will get an O-Ring to stay in there for very long, with out a retaining lip or a depression to hold it in place.

On my machine, I do not even see any flange seals installed, it appears that the factory has used that black marine grade RTV sealer, to create a seal between the body and flange plate. It looks like they laid in a very heavy bead of RTV, because it has flowed out all the way around the flange plate and has formed its own gasket seal. It looks like it works ok to me, its not a bad way to make a good sealing gasket.

If your bearing flange plates are severely damaged and bent away from the body surface, then you are going to have a difficult time trying to keep them sealed with any thing!

The other alternative to consider for a more robust flange plate, would be to buy or make some thicker custom outer flange plates, that will take a beating better over time.

For water application, you would normally expect to see about twice as many flange bolts, and a much more elaborate sealing system, versus only having a few bolts and some RTV form a gasket stuff applied. But again these are just standard run of the mill bearings and flanges, that they are using, and really were not meant to be used for mud and water immersion application. If you did use the properly applied bearings and outer flange sealing system for water immersion application, the cost will definately increase a lot.

This may further support the logic of installing and running cheaper stuff, and just plan to change them out more often. If it came down to being forced to pay $50 plus per each bearing, as the factory charges versus paying only $15 per each bearing of identical make and quality. Then I would just forget about even owning one of these machines any longer. It would not be economical at all!

This is just one of several examples of why the manufacturing factories tell you as little detail about their products and the real (Life Cycle Cost) to maintain them. If a person really knew more about the short period that the bearings, chains, sprockets, transmission bands, and so on actually last, and the cost that they charge for replacement parts, they would probably not even bother to buy an amphibious ATV.

But again that is the game, if you want to do it all with one type of machine, you have to pay to play!

By tropicjungleboy on Unrecorded Date: Edit

preventive manteniance with the right tools ( waterproof grease and light oil like wd40) will keep your aatv alive longer on cheap cost and labor........it"s a common practice on heavy equipment when working on wet or extreme dust/dirt ambiance to "overlube" bearings point in order to keep contaminant (water,dirt) out of friction parts ( internal moving part of bearings/chains)...be sure of grease quality...makes a huge diference on result....molibdene or synthetic will repell dirt better than regular (lithium) grease....

to clean the sprocker and chains diesel fuel (fuel oil) and a brush will easily remove dirt from them....

to seal flanchetes agains the bearing polyurethane ahesive/sealant are far better than silicone

By dt5428 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I keep reading to use WD40 as a light oil I have always been told it is a solvent.Which I tend to believe from the MSDS sheet which one of the main ingredients is Stoddard solvent.I am not trying to offend you Jungleboy but I think you would be better off using LPS 1,2 or 3 depending what the application is.I think that is why WD-40 cleans so well and does not lubricate items for very long.Just to give you a little background about me I have been an aircraft mechanic for about twenty years and this discussion has come up several times in conversations also I have never used WD-40 on anything on an aircraft.Then again aatv's are not aircraft and you have to use what works for you but aircraft are subjected to all the elements which include a lot of dirt and some pretty cold temps.If I am wrong here someone please tell me and give the reasoning.Here is the a copy of the MSDS sheet you can make your own judgements from here.

WD-40 -- WD-40 AEROSOL - LUBRICATING OIL, GENERAL
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
NSN: 9150011013727
Manufacturer's CAGE: 09137
Part No. Indicator: B
Part Number/Trade Name: WD-40 AEROSOL
===========================================================================
General Information
===========================================================================
Item Name: LUBRICATING OIL, GENERAL
Company's Name: WD-40 CO
Company's Street: 1061 CUDAHY PLACE (92110)
Company's P. O. Box: 80607
Company's City: SAN DIEGO
Company's State: CA
Company's Country: US
Company's Zip Code: 92138-9021
Company's Emerg Ph #: 800-424-9300 (CHEMTREC)
Company's Info Ph #: 612-275-1400
Record No. For Safety Entry: 002
Tot Safety Entries This Stk#: 002
Status: SMJ
Date MSDS Prepared: 01MAR90
Safety Data Review Date: 15MAR95
MSDS Preparer's Name: R. MILES
Preparer's Company: SAME
MSDS Serial Number: BXBPY
===========================================================================
Ingredients/Identity Information
===========================================================================
Proprietary: NO
Ingredient: STODDARD SOLVENT; (ALIPHATIC PETROLEUM DISTILLATES)
Ingredient Sequence Number: 01
Percent: 50
NIOSH (RTECS) Number: WJ8925000
CAS Number: 8052-41-3
OSHA PEL: 500 PPM
ACGIH TLV: 100 PPM
-------------------------------------
Proprietary: NO
Ingredient: PETROLEUM GAS (LIQUEFIED); (A-70 HYDROCARBON PROPELLANT)
Ingredient Sequence Number: 02
Percent: 25
NIOSH (RTECS) Number: SE7545000
CAS Number: 68476-85-7
OSHA PEL: 1000 PPM
ACGIH TLV: 1000 PPM
-------------------------------------
Proprietary: NO
Ingredient: MINERAL OIL, PETRO DISTIL, SOLV DEWAXED HEAVY PARAFFINIC
(SEVERE SOLV REFINING &/OR HYDROTREATMENT); (PETRO BASE OIL)
Ingredient Sequence Number: 03
Percent: >15
NIOSH (RTECS) Number: PY8038501
CAS Number: 64742-65-0
OSHA PEL: N/K (FP N)
ACGIH TLV: N/K (FP N)
-------------------------------------
Proprietary: NO
Ingredient: NON-HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS
Ingredient Sequence Number: 04
Percent: 1
Specific Gravity: 0.710 (H*2O=1)
Solubility In Water: INSOLUBLE
Percent Volatiles By Volume: 80
===========================================================================
Fire and Explosion Hazard Data
===========================================================================
Flash Point: N/A
Lower Explosive Limit: 1.8%
Upper Explosive Limit: 9.5%
Extinguishing Media: CARBON DIOXIDE, DRY CHEMICAL, FOAM.
Special Fire Fighting Proc: USE NIOSH/MSHA APPROVED SCBA AND FULL
PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (FP N).
Unusual Fire And Expl Hazrds: CONSIDERED "EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE" UNDER
CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY COMMISSION REGULATIONS.
===========================================================================
Reactivity Data
===========================================================================
Stability: YES
Cond To Avoid (Stability): NOT APPLICABLE.
Materials To Avoid: STRONG OXIDIZING MATERIALS.
Hazardous Decomp Products: THERMAL DECOMPOSITION MAY YIELD CARBON MONOXIDE
AND/OR CARBON DIOXIDE.
Hazardous Poly Occur: NO
Conditions To Avoid (Poly): NOT RELEVANT
===========================================================================
Health Hazard Data
===========================================================================
LD50-LC50 Mixture: NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER.
Route Of Entry - Inhalation: YES
Route Of Entry - Skin: YES
Route Of Entry - Ingestion: YES
Health Haz Acute And Chronic: INHALATION: MAY CAUSE ANESTHESIA, HEADACHE,
DIZZINESS, NAUSEA AND UPPER RESPIRATORY IRRITATION. SKIN: MAY CAUSE DRYING
OF SKIN AND/OR IRRITATION. EYES: MAY CAUSE IRRITATION, TEARING AND REDNESS.
INGESTION: MAY CAUSE IRRITATION, NAUSEA, VOMITING AND DIARRHEA. ASPIRATION
HAZARD: IF SWALLOWED CAN ENTER (EFTS OF OVEREXP)
Carcinogenicity - NTP: NO
Carcinogenicity - IARC: NO
Carcinogenicity - OSHA: NO
Explanation Carcinogenicity: NOT RELEVANT
Signs/Symptoms Of Overexp: HLTH HAZ: LUNGS AND MAY CAUSE CHEMICAL
PNEUMONITIS.
Med Cond Aggravated By Exp: NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER.
Emergency/First Aid Proc: INGESTION: DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING. SEEK MEDICAL
ATTENTION. ASPIRATION HAZ:IF SWALLOWED CAN ENTER LUNGS & MAY CAUSE CHEM
PNEUM. DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING. CALL MD IMMEDIATELY. EYES: IMMEDIATELY FLUSH
EYES WITH LARGE AMOUNTS OF WATER FOR AT LEAST 15 MINUTES. SKIN: WASH WITH
SOAP AND WATER. INHALATION: REMOVE TO FRESH AIR. GIVE ARTIFICIAL
RESPIRATION IF NECESSARY. IF BREATHING IS DIFFICULT, GIVE OXYGEN.
===========================================================================
Precautions for Safe Handling and Use
===========================================================================
Steps If Matl Released/Spill: SPILL UNLIKELY FROM AEROSOL CANS. LEAKING
CANS SHOULD BE PLACED IN PLASTIC BAG OR OPEN PAIL UNTIL PRESSURE HAS
DISSIPATED.
Neutralizing Agent: NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER.
Waste Disposal Method: EMPTY AEROSOL CANS SHOULD NOT BE PUNCTURED OR
INCINERATED; BURY IN LAND FILL. LIQUID SHOULD BE INCINERATED OR BURIED IN
LAND FILL. DISPOSE OF IN ACCORDANCE WITH LOCAL, STATE AND FEDERAL
REGULATIONS.
Precautions-Handling/Storing: KEEP FROM SOURCES OF IGNIT. DO NOT TAKE
INTERNALLY. AVOID EXCESSIVE INHAL OF SPRAY PARTICLES. DO NOT PUNCTURE,
INCIN OR STORE CNTNR ABOVE 120F.
Other Precautions: KEEP FROM CHILDREN.
===========================================================================
Control Measures
===========================================================================
Respiratory Protection: ADVISED WHEN CONCENTRATIONS EXCEED TLV. USE NIOSH/
MSHA APPROVED RESPIRATOR APPROPRIATE FOR EXPOSURE OF CONCERN (FP N).
Ventilation: SUFFICIENT TO KEEP SOLVENT VAPOR LESS THAN TLV.
Protective Gloves: IMPERVIOUS GLOVES (FP N).
Eye Protection: ANSI APPRVD CHEM WORKERS GOGGLES (FP N).
Other Protective Equipment: EYE WASH FOUNTAIN & DELUGE SHOWER MEETING ANSI
DESIGN CRITERIA (FP N).
Work Hygienic Practices: NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER.
Suppl. Safety & Health Data: VP: 55 +/- 5 PSI.
===========================================================================
Transportation Data
===========================================================================
===========================================================================
Disposal Data
===========================================================================
===========================================================================
Label Data
===========================================================================
Label Required: YES
Technical Review Date: 15MAR95
Label Date: 13MAR95
Label Status: G
Common Name: WD-40 AEROSOL
Chronic Hazard: NO
Signal Word: WARNING!
Acute Health Hazard-Moderate: X
Contact Hazard-Slight: X
Fire Hazard-None: X
Reactivity Hazard-None: X
Special Hazard Precautions: ACUTE: INHALATION: MAY CAUSE ANESTHESIA,
HEADACHE, DIZZINESS, NAUSEA AND UPPER RESPIRATORY IRRITATION. SKIN: MAY
CAUSE DRYING OF SKIN AND/OR IRRITATION. EYES: MAY CAUSE IRRITATION, TEARING
AND REDNESS. INGESTION: MAY CAUSE IRRITATION, NAUSEA, VOMITING AND
DIARRHEA. ASPIRATION HAZARD: IF SWALLOWED CAN ENTER LUNGS AND MAY CAUSE
CHEMICAL PNEUMONITIS. CHRONIC: NONE LISTED BY MANUFACTURER.
Protect Eye: Y
Protect Skin: Y
Protect Respiratory: Y
Label Name: WD-40 CO
Label Street: 1061 CUDAHY PLACE (92110)
Label P.O. Box: 80607
Label City: SAN DIEGO
Label State: CA
Label Zip Code: 92138-9021
Label Country: US
Label Emergency Number: 800-424-9300 (CHEMTREC)

Later,Dan

By Motown's (Bigwolf) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have to agree with you Dan about the use of WD-40. It does seem to evaporate away very quiclky. I use a spray on rust preventer and lubricant called 7-11, I believe that is the correct name for it any way. I see our tool and die makers use it to coat and lubricate moving tooling parts in stamping dies. You have to keep high carbon steel coated or it will flash rust if you even look at it wrong! Even that spray on lubricant used for O-Ring chain would work fine, but it is a little sticky and tends to collect dirt and dust more than a light oil does.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

his reasoning is simply it cleans and penetraits ands cheep and easy to put on where you like it to go and even though it needs to be aplyed often that how often you should do this way to easy preventiv maintanance anyhoot,
i like grease my self caus i like to leave it without any maintanence for long periods of time, this dose colect dirt but as long as greas is under the dirt the dirt is my friend! hehj heh heh
it's when i forget to greas it up like it's going out of style and also forget to diligently w-d it that things freez and rust into place, such as it becomes nesesary to use a sawsall and a press to fix laiter, ether way works,

By bcripe1 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Bigwolf, The chains were pretty loose. We have basically completely rebuilt my Max. Tightening the chain and changing tranny fluid seems to have cleared things up.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

big wolf my leaks arnt between flangets and body, that area ok, just threw between bearing and flangets whar they are designed to hold bearing, but have bin beaten open some.
i'l try some adhesave as isaac has mentioned

By tropicjungleboy on Unrecorded Date: Edit

HEY DAN: i agree with you about the very short term of lubrication that give you the wd40..but the important thing is that you must reuse often in orden to relube...but most important, TO REMOVE DIRT that convert when consolidated on oil or grease into a grinding compound!!!...i also mention dw40 because is a famous brand...liquid wrench offer a cheap and better option with teflon on it........anyhow...the point is to keep internal parts soaked on fresh light penetrating oil to try to preserve chains and sprockers...also is easy to remove old residues from bottom of chain bilge in order to try to keep as clean as possible inside the aatv...with regular motor oil is very hard to do that without being involve on pressure washer or steam that remove all oil from internal component of chains and bearings..........bottom line is that something like wd40 is the easy way to balance between proper lubrication and rust free..not to mention clean internal body of aatv..

By Motown's (Bigwolf) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ah ok I comprehend what your problem area is now! A heavier duty flange plate would probably help you in that area, but you have to custom make them. I don't think an O-Ring seal would stay in there as you mentioned in a prior note. You will probably be better off to try the adhesive sealant like the jungle man suggested.

Please excuse my foggy mind today, Jose Cuervo got the best of me last night! It was my wifes fault though, she kept buying more pitchers of margarita's and forced me to drink them with her!I am not even a casual drinker, and she knows this, so I have no idea what she managed to talk me out of or into last night! For all I know, I probably bought her some new diamonds or some thing to that affect. Her Red Wings went down to the flames, so we had to comiserate the event.

About the only positive thing that I can say about visiting the local saloon is, you can design and engineer some real good ideas on the bar napkins! Particularly once your mind starts wondering and expanding into new horizons!

By dt5428 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I see you point Jungleboy.But I think the real issue is preventing the dirt in these areas.Big Wolf and I had a long talk about improvements to aatv's and one of the areas we touched on was sealing the floor boards to prevent this.Has anyone done this if so speak up.We were thinking about some type of seal to the exsisting flooring or diamond plate with a seal.I think that we both agree that dirt and heat are the two major causes for componet failures and the more you eliminate of either the less money out of you pocket.Which means lots more beer and toys.Big Wolf owns a Max and I own an Argo and I see the same problem with both of the flooring designs and I think that the cost of doing such a modification far out ways the premature failures that people are having.One of these days all of us will get together and build a better mouse trap.But first we need to get tuned up and break out the napkins.


Later,Dan

By tropicjungleboy on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hey dan: i find very hard to avoid dirt geting inn on chains and sprockers....the lower part of machinery inside aatv are the chains...unless you keep perfectly tensioned sooner or later the chains are going to touch the bottom of body....and since this lower part of the body is narrow..any quantity of dirt inside will be transfer to chains.....sure that a better removable floor board design that will contain ALL OF DIRT THAT OPERATOR BRINGS WITH SHOES and will lift without bend it will be an improvement...but when you drive aatv hard you will also get dirt from air when engine cooling system is working (otherwise there will be no reason for replace air filter...ah!!)...so better to go back light oil on chain often!!

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

maybe once a year when the mudd in my hull gets a chance to realy dry out well i remember to drive down to car wash to use ther vacumes on my 3/4" thick cracked up dryed out mud wich lines entire inside of my maxII's hull, on hand i have a screw driver to help scrape off some of the mud from sprokets and such, i don't bother with outsides of the max, nature takes cair of the outside,
the car wash guys have thretend to take my picture and post it with police department, heh heh heh

By Motown's (Bigwolf) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey David, you may just want to take a gallon of motor oil (synthetic of course), and pour in into the lower body area of your machine. It will slosh around nicely when you ride, and when the mud re-dries again, it may just encapsulate the oil and give you a nice protective coating on the mechanical parts.

We could probably do a full blown study on this topic, using your machine as a good test case!

By the way that was some free advice, and Jose Cuervo had no part in that idea this time!

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

thanks but im way ahead on this one, the study is well under way, i use anything at hand, i beleave in wd-40 when im in there but havent had the time and cash for a few years so i have pored oil sometimes but only on the parts, and when i greased the bearings and axels inner bushing pockets and my jack shafts i alwase smeared the extra greas on chains and stuff as well as any shiny or slightly rusted spot on fraim so it would be protected for as long as posable, i have found as long as you don't take on alot of water it dose grow an encapsuleation of dirt, once broken threw the grease is still protecting from rust if nothing else, yes things dont freez because water never gets to them, it worked some on my cam locks too, smeard grease in spaner hole and allen set screw hole and seam arroung axel and camlock, this usualy made it posable to remove for many months, but not years,
too much water in hull will wash all greas and oil from everything in there, adgetated by chains and carying agregat particles of dirt sand sticks and bugs it leaves even old chains sparkly new!
and ready to rust, this reminds me i did almost sink last sunday i guess it's high time i go out and at least wd - it, hope my new inner bearing upgrades have a sence of humer, heh heh
there getting the real test now