By Mr.Kokusai on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I purchased a 1997 MAX IV 800T in Febuary 2001, I quickly found how important maintenance is with this machine. The previous owner had no clue about chain lube, Transmission oil change (every ten hours of use), or how to grease bearings. While at the Deepwater Jamboree in April 2001 with my 4 sons, we blew out an inner bearing on the right side. Recreatives sold me an upgrade kit at a discount which I think was great. It showed me they are willing to stand by their product. Since then I have put about ten hours on the machine. I too am very meticulas about maintenance on this machine. However, I now have to replace the bearings on the other four wheels. MAX is a great product, but I think that the engineering design is way too delicate!

By Bob Jenkins on Unrecorded Date: Edit

You really can't blame RI for the lack of maintainence from a previous owner. I have a 97 MAX IV-600T. I have over 225 hours on it and still have the original bearings in it. Use marine grease and follow the maintainence schedule. The only problem I have is I wish it was a 25 horse!!!

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I was there when you had that bearing problem. It's too bad it screwed up your weekend but all things break. I also found out that a little lube goes a long way. The engine is my Max is dishing out a lot more power than what this machine was made for. Over two and a half years and nothing has broke, only worn out from lack of lube.
Glad to hear you are still riding it. I think it will be a great machine once you undo what the previous owner did. Once you have a good machine, there is just nothing like six wheeling. Like a fine wine, it just gets better as the days go by.

MaxRules

By BILL on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Brandon;

Know alot about wine, uuhh???

:-)

BILL

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I happen to be a wine specialist. I listen to others whine about thier inferior off road vehicles and suggest things that may help them. Buying a new Max is always the first step to recovery. Drinking too much wine and buying an Argo is about the same thing... you always feel really bad the next day! hahaha

MaxRules

By Ken Thompson on Unrecorded Date: Edit

About 2 years ago I started looking at this site when I stumbled upon it one day net surfing. I was a long time 4 wheel rider and loved off roading. I had never seen a 6x6 before and was amazed at what they could do and how they looked. I went surfing and found several dealers near my Montana home. I looked at both the Max and the Argo machines but since I did not know much about them I did not know what I was looking at. I got both demo tapes from the dealers and watched them. Both Max and Argo machines went through equal terrain so the tape was of no help either. I then went to this discussion board and read all the replies from the many Route 6x6 readers. I read alot of stories about both manufactured machines and to me it sounded like most readers liked the Max. My brother and I then decided to buy some new Max's. I purchased a Max IV 25HP and my brother a Max II 18hp. For about the first 75 hours I was the happiest guy on earth. I went through all the terrain I wanted and followed the maintenance schedule to a "T." Then one day I was riding and heard a noise. I later discovered that I had 4 bad bearings on my Max. I took the machine in and had it fixed since it was under warranty. My brother then looked at his and low and behold he had 3 bad bearings in his. I figured that maybe there was some bad bearings at the plant or something so I just brushed it off. Well by 146 hours my warranty was gone and so were 6 more bearings and one inner sprocket. A grand total of $900 in repairs for a machine that was nearly $9,000. Need less to say I was not happy. My brother poked a hole in the body of his Max on a log. When we took that machine apart we found that the body was made paper thin. I was disappointed and sold my Max. My brother had the body fixed and kept his. Then I purchased a used Attex. This machine ran great but the body was old and leaked when I went into the water. I then took home an Argo Bigfoot for a test drive. I liked the machine and bought one. I did the same thing I did with the Max. I maintained the vehicle as the manufacturer recommended and rode the exact same area I did with the Max. I have never gotten stuck with the Bigfoot riding the same area I did with the Max IV. I now have over 230 hours on My Argo and have not broke one thing. The bearing design is superior and the body is nice and beefy. For anyone who reads this message and is considering buying a new machine take some helpful advice. Research each machine for yourself. Everyone is different and wants different qualities in an aatv. I listened to all the Max lovers on this site and I lost out on about $1,500 on my choice. Oh yeah and as for my brother. He kept his Max and wanted to prove that it was just a fluke. Well 4 bearings and 8' of chain later his new Bigfoot is on order and should be in sometime in Sept.

regards Ken

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

ken thomson, i have posted more than once that in a max you will need a set of bearings a year, there not realy good as seals! thats why thay go bad, the highest quality bearings with the best DUST SEALS going will fail as a result of subjecting them to use as seals for an aatv,
a maxII was the first thing i ran into with a 440cc engine when i desided to get another aatv, its the reason i got it and i put up with the extra maintanence cause i love 440cc power!

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Interesting story Ken. What do you call a 'bad' bearing? I call a bearing bad when it falls out and balls roll everywhere. Nearly every bearing on my Max has some play in it, but that does not mean spend hundreds of dollars to replace them. Also, six bearings and one sprocket would cost about $270... far from $900! What was the problem with the sprocket?
My outer bearings ('99 Max II) served well for 300 hard hours with NO LUBE! They leaked water while floating and since I had the money, I decided to replace them. If I didn't want to spend the money, the same bearings would be in it still rolling on. Five of the inner bearings are original. They got a small amount of lube in thier day, with the exception of the two middle and rear left. I replaced the rear left because after 2-1/2 years it never got a drop of grease.

The best on Earth.

By Ken Thompson on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well Brandon I call a bad bearing one with play in it. My Argo bearings are 100% water tight and have no play what so ever. The play in the bearing is usually what makes them go bad and fall out. The sprocket went bad when the bearing failed causing the axle to spin on an angle. The o-ring chain stripped the teeth and stretched the chain past repair all in the distance of about 100 yards. And maybe you can buy parts that cheap but where I live they are costly. The reason the bearings go bad is because they cannot be properly lubricated. The Argo I bought has two grease serts per bearings! I have over 230 hours and the machine does no leak one drop of water into the hull. ...Ken

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ken, Where in Montana are you located and who did you buy your machines from? Funny, I have sold about 50 machines in Montana and not one bearing has been replaced under warranty (actually I have never replaced a bearing on a machine I have sold). Too bad you didn't call me, I might have been able to give you some help. I am curious to just what happened to/with your bearings.

It's good to know there is an Argo bigfoot in Montana (gonna be two, I guess); would you guys be interested in maybe getting together for a little comparison testing - I'll be glad to come to your area.

By Oliver (Digipix) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

As a new Max owner... what can I do to help my Max bearings survive longer? I want my Max to run well and work for a very long time, at these prices, it really should. I hate to hear stories like Ken's above, it makes me wonder about my investment. What causes bearings to fail so quickly? Were these failures due to water use? I don't use my Max in the water, just crossing a stream if needed but nothing too extreme. I will be running it in winter though so it'll get pretty wet. What can I do to prolong the life of my Max and minimize repair costs like Ken's above?

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

In response to Ken & Oliver:
Ken, talking about chain, I think you are pulling ours!. Sounds to me like you picked something up in the chain (seatbelt maybe, wrench?) You were also probably running your chains way too tight (how many times did you adjust them in the 146 hours you put on it? - with the o-ring, should have been once, maybe twice). Chains work much better just a hair too loose rather than a hair too tight. My guess is you probably over greased your bearings -suppose to use only a squeeze or two and stop immediately when you see a little grease escape from any point. I'm not saying that you didn't have problems (I do doubt that though), but if you did, it is not the machines fault.

Tell me more about this hole in the max II body caused by a "log". Where did the hole occur and how did he fix it?

Oliver, give them a squirt or two of grease in the fall and in the spring (don't use too much grease and just as soon as any grease escapes, quit). Don't let your chains get real loose and don't tighten them too much. Keep your chain troughs clean and don't use too much chain lubricant (sandy grit wears chain out faster than anything except for being too tight). For example, I am still using a 1995 (March 20) Max IV 600T with the 26" tires (still my favorite Max) for a demonstrator (it is one of the last to be so equipped and has the old style smaller bearing that is prone to breaking bearing collar anchor points). Every time it goes out, I show the prospect what it can do and it is asked to do things many people would never consider doing. It has about 120 hours and has had nary a problem. I do everything easy and slow (I have a rebuilt back), but there is not much I will not try. Why don't I get current, because it takes 25 to 30 hours to break in a new machine and that is a lot of 10 to 15 minute demonstrations - the max gets better with age and I want my people to know what they will have.

By Oliver (Digipix) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Fred, Thanks for the info, I'm feeling better about things now. It's really difficult to keep the inner tub clean, it collects everything, but I'm getting pretty good with a shop vac. Thanks again.

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ken, there is no need to replace a bearing when there is a little bit of play in it. It's still perfectly good and water tight for a long time. Many years with proper lubrication.
The price I quoted was prices buying direct from RI. Shipping might add some, but $300 will cover it easy. $900 would replace all twelve bearings and all six axle sprockets!
Your chain and sprocket thing doesn't make sense at all. The bearing would have to be completely out of the flange to put the sprocket at that much of an angle. A simple worn bearing, no matter how bad, will not make a chain jump off the sprocket. If the bearing did fall out the chain would jump off the sprocket and that would be it. No 'striped' teeth and no ruined chain. The chains do not stretch within seconds like you seem to think. It takes many hours of use and wear to stretch a chain. If the chain is suddenly too tight, it will either break something or break itself. It will not stretch wildly out of control until it's no good anymore.
I don't doubt the Argo has a better bearing seal. Max will soon have an external bearing seal.
One thing I do doubt is that any of this ever happened. I think you are the same guy with the only land locked new camo Max IV we had a few weeks ago. Please tell me what the point of all this really is.

MaxRules

By jdhoath on Unrecorded Date: Edit

everybody:
I would just like to jump in on the max vs. argo discussion. I cannot speak for a max because I have never owned one, but the last three years I have pulled "several" out of mud holes at humphrey, with my argo bigfoot. Most of the time though I think if a more experienced driver was at the sticks the max(s) would have made it through. As far as dependebility, I have seen alot more maxes take a dump at humphrey than argos. for instance the so called best aatv transmission: the guy camping next to me blew his beyond repair and he only had 35 hours on it. In April at the humphrey ride the kid at the firehall who one the max II had a broke transmission with under 50 hours on it. to this day I have never seen one argo transmission take a dump any where. Maxes also scare me on hills (going down) another guy camping buy us said the only brake for going down hills was the parking break and that made him nervous. Is this true? My personal opinion is that the bigfoot is the best all around 6x6 on the market with the max IV (with the 26 in tires) close behind. And finally most of the riders I ride with are in maxes, they seem to be extreme riders like myself for instance, and a little more socialable. anyone know the "rats" from deleware or somewhere in that area out east in the brown max II? they were my kind of riding partners!

By Brett Barton on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have pulled my fair share of argos and some MAXs out of the mud at Humphrey. I saw a guy this year with a newer bigfoot with a blown tranny. He was being towed out by a MAX II.

Driver experience makes all the difference in the world.

One thing I have Noticed is there are a ton of old MAXS out there(pre-85 or so). All the argos I see at rides are post 92 thru present). The only old argo I have ever seen was the 440 at Humphrey, but the owner was afraid to take it in the mud.

There have been about twice as many maxs built than argos. Over 40,000 per max literature and 20,000 argos per odg literature. It follows that there would be more chances of a broken MAX than a broken argo.

I have owned both and personally I like my IV_900T best out of the two. I had the argo for 4 years and got tired of having problems getting parts. I have had my MAX for two years now and the one time I needed a part it was a phone call and 3 days away.

By John Martin on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I don't care what it is, anything can get stuck. If you haven't gotten stuck yet then you are not trying hard enough. Both kinds of machines do well in all types of terrian, it seems to me that operator experience has everything to do with it. I'm not having very much fun ridding if I'm not getting stuck every once in a while.(helps alot to ride in pairs or have a good come-a-long)

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hay, john, defenatly alwase ride in pairs! you can never tell what will hapen or when you might go "wheels~up!" don't go there alone!!

By jdhoath on Unrecorded Date: Edit

john and david.
riding in pairs is definetly a good thing. I learned that the hard way when i first bought my argo. when your in the middle of a 100 acre marsh there is not much to tie the winch to. As far as getting parts I have heard from alot of people about that but orrs all season vehicles in hamlet indiana take excellent care of their customers. I have seen a few argo dealers in michigan that are there one day and gone the next with no tec help because I knew more about them than they did, plus argos cost 1500 to 2500.00 more in mi. than In. because the michigan distributor has issues. word to the wise "buying a new argo? buy it in Indiana!"

By Argotony on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Guys,

I don't know about the rest of the readers on this page but this is the way I take the discussion board. For the most part it seems as if the readers are pretty much split on which brand of machine they like. Myself I prefer the Argo Bigfoot primarily because I have one. Most of the readers get on the discussion board to share a story of tech tip or ask a question. Once in a while there is a touchy debate about the quality or performance of a particular brand but most of the readers keep it clean getting their point across without offending anyone...that is with the exception of Brandon Price and Fred. It seems like everytime there is a discussion one of these guys comes on the board and starts slinging mud. I wish those two would take a permanent vacation so that the rest of us could talk shop....See ya boys.... Tony

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Tony, I think you would be hard pressed to find any post where I was slinging mud (I always go through slowly so I don't disturb the ground). I do call a spade a spade. Good luck with your argo.

Ken Thompson, I see your post on another thread. Do you really exist, do you have email? Why don't you take the time to fill out a profile? Your posts will be taken a little more seriously if we know you are a straight forward person. This goes for you too, Tony!

I'm serious about in the field testing of machines. That is the best way to shut me up - prove me wrong; make me eat crow!

Why won't you tell me where you live or who you and your brother bought your maxs from? Ya know, up until this spring, for the last several years I have been the only Max dealer in Montana; makes it kind of hard for you to have checked with several dealers (a Ken Thompson has never contacted me). You should also tell us when you bought your Max IV 900T, when you sold it and when you bought your Argo. Just for the record why don't you tell us where you bought your bearings, sprocket and, I presume, chain.

By P.J. on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Once again Fred, you speak with CLINTONian or is is CONDITian truth. There are all kinds of posts from you where you sling mud. Argotony is absolutely correct. If you like I'll quote the posts in question for all to check out.

P.J.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Have at 'er P.J. I suppose ones perspective enters the picture as to what is "mud slinging". I might very well be a little condescending every now and then when dealing with the "less bright", but I have never called anyone names, used bad language, or made up facts. The closest I ever came (I think) is my first post to david3rd about the t-20.

I would think you have better things to do than to research my posts, but if you find some "mud slingers", post them - I'm a big boy, if I need to take some heat, I will.

Sure would like some answers from Ken Thompson though.

By Etienne Kingsley on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Has anyone heard of a hydraulically driven aatv? I use a MaxIV to survey the beaches of Washington state. This has got to be one of the worst environments to drive a chain driven vehicle. I have spent more time and money than I can count fixing this thing. Can someone suggest another brand that uses a better engineering scheme?

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Etienne Kingsley, I think your only choice for all hydraulic is the hyrdo traxx. Pretty sure the triton predator uses chains to drive the wheels.

What year Max do you have? The newer machines with the o-ring chain will be less maintenance, but if you are going to be in salt conditions, you have extra work keeping anything up.

By Attex Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Etienne: What keeps breaking? I don't have a Max, I have an Attex, which is basically a hot-rodded Max. If you think a hydraulically driven machine in the sand and salt water is going to be more reliable I think you are going to be disappointed. Those hydraulic motors really don't like dirt; and they absolutely can not tolerate any sand at all. I heard the drive systems on tanks in dessert storm lasted like 50 miles before they needed a complete overhaul. If it is the chains that are the problem, try a dry lube like graphite, don't use any lube that is sticky or you will turn your lube into a cutting compound. There is alot of people on this board that can help you if you give us more info on what the problems you are having.

By Bill Davis (Nvbigblue) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

HI guys! Just a little comment here about hydraulic motors. I worked on a core sample drill rig many years ago, and we used a nasty mixture of stuff (bentonite, water, polymers, soda ash, potassium and other chemicals) to lubricate the drill pipe. We used 400 gallon stock tanks to mix up our lube and to mix the stuff in the stock tanks we used hydraulic motors with props attached to them (mixers). These were motors of about (I don't remember exactly how big) 3/4 to 1 hp. Now I worked on the same rig for close to 2 years and we used the same stock tanks and mixers the whole time. I worked 12 hour shifts, 10 days on, 4 days off. These motors ran 10 to 11 hours a shift, 2 shifts a day. So we're talking, on average, 20 hours a day, 10 days straight, for 2 years. The only repairs I can ever remember doing on them, was replacing broken props (they were fabricated, not manufactured, and sometimes threw blades), and rebuilding the hydraulic pumps (which also drove the rest of the hydraulics on the rig). Now the fluid we mixed up was pretty harsh, and these pumps ran in water temps from just above freezing (over 10,000 ft above sea level in winter) to 180F degree water (4,250 ft above sea level, natural hot water) and they NEVER failed! So I strongly believe that hydraulic motors will hold up under the harshest conditions. And in other jobs, I've run Bobcat SKID-STEER loaders, and I don't remember ever having to repair the drive motors due to abrasive material penetrating the seals. On a different note, I ride quads, and have driven them through all types of environments (sand, mud, dirt, water, clay, snow, basically everything) and have never had a chain failure (NON O-ring!) from what I would consider abrasive material penetration. Yes, they have failed and/or worn out, but I would say they all had above average hours on them. Of course, I clean my machines after every ride. Obviously, if you were to neglect basic maintenance and servicing of any type of drive system, drive components will be damaged and require more than basic maintenence. It's just like washing a boat down with fresh water after running it in salt water. I'm not picking one drive system over the other,and I'm not saying that hydraulic motors never fail, but I believe that, depending on conditions, one type or the other will be more appropriate. (Hmmmm.... kinda like the the MAX versus ARGO debate?!?! hehehe)

And Attex Bob, (I'm not picking on you here) but as a memeber of the Air National Guard that served during the Gulf War, I have quite a few friends in the Army Guard. There were over 1,900 M1's sent to the gulf. And they had an operational rediness of over 90%. The actual numbers are available on the web. And remember, these are gas-turbine driven vehicles....an engine very prone to debri damage! So sand isn't neccesarily an engine/tranny killer.
Regards,
Bill Davis

By Attex Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Bill: No offense taken. I do think you misunderstood what I was trying to say about hydraulic motors. When I talk about sand in hydraulic motors; I was talking about sand getting inside the holding tank. The oil tank gets contaminated with dirt, sand or whatever, then it gets in the motor; then your done. I know they make filters, but it seems that sand gets everywhere!!! For example. I went to the beach last year with my Attex. I was really, really trying to be careful not to get sand on me or in my Attex. When I got back to camp, I had sand up my nose, in my ears, in my eyes, in my shoes and even in my underwear!!!! The reason I suspect they had a 90% rediness is because they had a ton of people working on those M1's. And with 1,900 tanks over there, they just hopped in a new one and took off across the sand until it ground up. Bill, if you don't think sand can kill an engine or a tranny; lets just say we agree to disagree. Etienne: If you think I'm full of crap (some people do, ha ha ha ha)and still want a juice AATV, contact Dave Blackburn on this board, he has a Power-Trac 6000 (a juice AATV)that you can probably pick up very cheap!!!! While your at it, ask Dave what he thinks about the Power-Trac, (tongue in cheek)he will give you his opinion!!!!!

By pete6x6 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Attex bob,

I enjoy your commentary :) Powertrac 6000's are wonderful machines .

By MESC on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Boy You guys sure like to argue. Why not try that is TRY to come up with pragmatic trains of thought that you could apply towards 6by6 or8by8 atv operation??? I just found this site and 75 percent of it sounds like my little kids fighting. They are tqoo young to drive so I am assuming you are all over8 years old. Thanx Good potential on site but if youre gonna Whine Go eat some Cheese. BIG MIKE

By John Martin on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey big Mike, Is that not why they call this a "Discussion Board". You can easily read what you like and overlook what you don't. You have to sift through the stuff that dosen't interest you and get what you can from the board. Without arguments would improvements ever come about?

By roadwolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

MESC, we aren't really arguing when hitting the keyboard, we are kinda laughing (at least i am). this is north america, ford verus chevy, if it seems we all are hatin' each other , well at least it is a healthy hate.
i think many different types of machine owners all have provided a host of knowledge for people that may consider the sport.
so i apologize if we all came accross like a bunch of hot heads, but you gotta admit this board is very entertaining.

By David Keeso on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have to agree with all ARGO owners about the capabilities. Although I have never seen a MAX in action or driven one, everyone I have talked to has said that the max are not even comparable to ARGO. I have an ARGO and swear by them. They are a lot better looking as well!

By David Keeso on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have to agree with all ARGO owners about the capabilities. Although I have never seen a MAX in action or driven one, everyone I have talked to has said that the max are not even comparable to ARGO. I have an ARGO and swear by them. They are a lot better looking as well!

By David Keeso on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have to agree with all ARGO owners about the capabilities. Although I have never seen a MAX in action or driven one, everyone I have talked to has said that the max are not even comparable to ARGO. I have an ARGO and swear by them. They are a lot better looking as well!

By John Martin on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I guess you don't know what you've been missing. Each machine has qualities that are better than the other for you to find out for yourself. To name a few:different tranmissions, seating arrangements, motor placement, weights.

By Roger Smith on Unrecorded Date: Edit

John's right. I went riding with him, his Max and my Response. We got to admire the best qualities of each other's machines.

John, were you at Pryor Sunday? I went late and saw some tracks I thought could have been your's or your Dad's. I played hard Sat & Sun, thought about putting on the tracks (we got a big snow) since they just sit in the spare bedroom most of the time (we're in Oklahoma). Was a lot of fun crashing though the frozen stuff. Had to chain up the truck to get out on the way home. Glad I have a day off to clean up and regroup after the weekend!

By Roger Smith on Unrecorded Date: Edit

John's right. I went riding with him, his Max and my Response. We got to admire the best qualities of each other's machines.

John, were you at Pryor Sunday? I went late and saw some tracks I thought could have been your's or your Dad's. I played hard Sat & Sun, thought about putting on the tracks (we got a big snow) since they just sit in the spare bedroom most of the time (we're in Oklahoma). Was a lot of fun crashing though the frozen stuff. Had to chain up the truck to get out on the way home. Glad I have a day off to clean up and regroup after the weekend!

By Roger Smith on Unrecorded Date: Edit

John's right. I went riding with him, his Max and my Response. We got to admire the best qualities of each other's machines.

John, were you at Pryor Sunday? I went late and saw some tracks I thought could have been your's or your Dad's. I played hard Sat & Sun, thought about putting on the tracks (we got a big snow) since they just sit in the spare bedroom most of the time (we're in Oklahoma). Was a lot of fun crashing though the frozen stuff. Had to chain up the truck to get out on the way home. Glad I have a day off to clean up and regroup after the weekend!