By Henry Pitts (Henry) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Help! For the second time in six months, my Max II with a 14hp B&S V twin in it just stopped. I was working in a marsh moving slowly and running at about 1/4 to 1/2 throttle for about an hour and the engine just quit. It sat about an hour and then started, ran about 10 minutes and then quit. The first thing I checked was the fuel pump and it was always pumping fuel. Do these engines vapor lock or have some carb problem when run at mid throttle for long periods of time? It runs fine around the farm where we typically run 10 or 15 minutes at a time. It seems to only quit when run for long periods. Any ideas or help would be greatly appreciated because I don't trust it to go to inaccessable areas - I might have to leave it! Thanks, Henry hpitts@merctrust.com

By ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hey henry:

you must check for two diferent causes when next suddently stop occur:

* check spark ( an extra spark plug will help..just take out the cable from one cylinder and conect the "new" spark plug resting it on cylinder head and try to restart...if blue spark goes on ( orange/yellow spark means lack of electricity//magnetron failure//!!) then the problem is located on the fuel supply..........bottom line is that a "dead" engine doesn't bounce!!

By Lazerman (Lazerman) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Henry
Mine did the same thing one day in my front yard. Just took my 70 year old mother for a ride. We went down into a step ditch and just came up the other side when it just quit. It would start and run real rough but only with the choke out. I took the cab apart didn't see any dirt but blew everything out with an air hose, put it back together and haven't had any problems sense. So try cleaning out the carb even if you don't see any dirt. Hope this helps.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Henry,sounds like maybe an electrical problem. 1st, I'd check the plug-in for the ignition switch under the dash and make sure all is snug. Then I'd check the regulator/rectifier (a approximately 2"x 3"x 1/2" plastic box about 3" above the starter) for heat damage. If it isn't an obvious loose wire or damaged part, I would take it to a B&S service center. No there isn't any "normal" problem that will cause it to quit - Something is wrong!

By drsam2000 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Henry
I don’t know if he B&S has an oil sentry like on the Kohlers
if it dose then this could be what is stopping the engine.
When your oil pressure goes down below 3.5 lbs the oil switch will ground out your ignition.
This could happen when you run for long times under load where the engine gets to hot.
When was the last time you changed the oil and filter?
Try checking the oil pressure, I would guess you should have at least 15 to 30 lbs
You could also try to determine if the engine is over heating in the first place
You can use a hand held temp gauge and measure the temp as you go along
Here again, I don’t have the manufactures spec but, I would say it shouldn’t get over 240 degrees at the engine block and actually should run a little cooler say around 225 degrees
anyway, just measure the temp as you go along to see if you can draw a relationship between heat and the engine stopping.

Let me know how you make out
Hope this helps
Sam

By neil otto on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I just threw a rod in my 16hp Briggs Vangard in a 93 Max IV and am considering replacing it with a 23hp Vangard. Max does not offer this engine, but the drawings look like it will bolt right up. Has anybody tried this conversion? Thanks, Neil

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Neil, the 23hp Briggs is not a very good engine for the Max without an accellerator pump. RI tried this engine along with the 20hp Kohler and they went with the Kohler in the new Max II 800-T. The Briggs does not jump off the line and accellerate like the Kohler does. I just drove a new camo Max II 20hp today. Thanks to Troy and Bud Moore of Midwest ATV. It is an excellent machine and if I were to buy another II, the 20hp would be it. It is very quick and powerful. I like how it is smooth all the way through the powerband.
Is there any reason the Briggs blew up? Was the oil ok at the time? Were you using the governor?

MaxRules

By neil otto on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I talked to the Briggs people who say that you should be able to get around the lag problem by re-jeting. Going to the Kohler involves $300 in change over parts (engine stand, wiring harness, belt, muffler). I had just changed oil in the 16hp Briggs and apparently the oil pump air locked. It went about 1/2 mile and put a rod out through the block. The oil filter had never filled with oil. Any other good engine choices? Would the 18hp Briggs be very satisfactory with tracks? Thanks, Neil

By neil otto on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Addition to last message: Is there an accelerator pump available for the 23hp Briggs? Thanks, Neil

By Henry on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Neil:

Try contacting Briggs tech dept as you need solid answers not heresay. RI most likely went with the "other" engine because they got a deal. Companies today are driven by the dollar, Max and Argo are no different no matter what their dealers or anyone else said.

Henry

By Lazerman (Lazerman) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Neil
Just a little advice for future oil changes.
Fill the oil filter with oil before you install it next time. This way you shouldn't have any type of air lock. I do this on all my vehicles. If you've ever started an engine with an oil pressure gauge you'll notice the lag time between when the engine starts and when you actually have full oil pressure. That's due in most part to the pump having to fill the empty filter. If you fill the filter first, you see almost no lag time in building pressure. Hope this helps.

By Ernie Savinsky (Lucky45) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

why would it air lock, what kind of cheap filter was it? Good idea Lazerman, but I been doing it Neils way for 40 years, but you should idle engine for 5 minutes and check for leaks and if its warm and filled.
A 23hp BS probably don't meet pollution rules or its so fast RI is afraid we will kill ourselves?
When I get one I'll woop Brandons toy and the 8K Max II 20 HP KOHLER JUNK.

By Lazerman (Lazerman) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Ernie I agree! You should let the engine run and warm up to check for leaks. And I did it Neil’s way for about 35 years myself, then someone told me about filling the filter before installing it and I thought that makes perfect sense so I've been doing it that way for about the last 5 years. That's what I like about this site. About the time I think I've heard it all I'll learn something new. I guess this old dog can still learn a few new tricks after all. And thanks Ernie for filling in what I left out.

By Alan Meeuwsen (Albo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ernie, First let me say that I don,t mean this to be argumentative but I am curious. I have the 20 HP Kohler in my Max2 and it seems to run stong and smooth without any problems so far.I don,t have a lot of experience with one engine versus the other and definately do not claim to be an expert but why do you say that it's junk?

By neil otto on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks for the word about the 23hp not working very well. I just ordered a new Kohler and all the changeover parts which are engine stand (heavier duty), wiring harness, belt, and muffler. Total bill will be $1802, so now you know what to expect if you pull the same stunt. RI has their kohler cranks machined down to 1", so don't expect an Northern Hydraulics or Harbor Freight engine to fit. Now I can start saving for some tracks, Har Har. Thanks, Neil

By Ernie Savinsky (Lucky45) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I'm sure this will create more fuss. Kohler is US made, BS Vanguad made in Japan. Sort of like Ford junk vs Toyota Quality. If its all setup in a new 20 HP max II and it runs good ..great, but to spend $500 extra for retro fit stuff when a 23 hp $1299 Briggs would bolt right in? $1800 for engine and stuff from RI? What about engine cover, eetc? Sounds like RI will build one less 20hp b/c they sold you the parts!
$1800 does not make a new 20 HP MaxII
Expensive equipment Cummins and Cat diesel engines recommend prefilling oil filters. Your right its a Good old dog trick if filter position allows. I think he needs to sue the filter manufacturer and/or go to oil change 101 school. ie: if you started it up and raced right off?
if it was an OEM BS $10 oil filter I got nothing to say they owe you a new engine. KN HP 1002 fits
BS Vanguard and works fine. 40 years doing it your way something missing or fishy in your story!!

By Ernie Savinsky (Lucky45) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Woops, excuse me I did not realize he put new engine in MaxIV probably a logical replacement.if you want to spend $1800. I would still go with 23 hp BS for $500 less if it were for a Max II.
OHV,fuel injection.etc caused by goverment pollution laws and standards.Just wait a Cat converter exhaust is comming to your AATV.

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Neil, excellent choice going with the Kohler. With all your new found power in the IV, you better get the sprocket/bearing reinforcement kit from RI. Your older IV was not made for the 20hp and you could start breaking things.
Ernie, I wish you knew what you were talking about. Just because the Briggs has a HP rating of only three more does not make it better by any means. It does not just bolt right in. How do you figure the exhaust manifold from a 16hp will magically fit a 23hp? The Briggs might run good with an accellerator pump but RI can't sell it because it will not pass emission standards. The Kohler has an accellerator pump and does pass.
I suggest you try the 20hp instead of just guessing.

By Joe Haute on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I tried a 23hp Briggs in my 1998 Max II. Brandon is correct, it does not bolt right in. I needed a custom exhaust system, cooling/ducting, the larger clutch (used on the 25hp Kohler in the Max IV). My Briggs dealer said there is no accelerator pump carburator available for the 23hp Briggs. The biggest issues were the exhaust and the clutch. The clutch used in a Max II is only rated for about 20-22hp according to RI and they wouldn't recommend using a 1" diameter crankshaft on a 23hp engine anyway. With the other clutch I had to dish the lower body out with a jack and a propane torch. Anyway, after my Max II started to look all butchered, I ordered a 2001 Max II 800T. I've had it about 2 weeks now and the Kohler outperforms the Briggs other than top speed due to the different clutching. The Briggs also has a very bad off the line bogg due to the lack of an accelerator pump.

By Chris Heili (Trailboss) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ernie, there is a good a reason the Briggs costs less than the Kohler. It's called quality. The old U.S. made vs. Japanese made stereotype no longer applies. You get what you pay for, and you pay more for Kohler because it's a quality product. Look around at all the small engine power equipment on the market and you will find Kohlers in the high-end equipment. I'm not bashing Briggs, it's just that they each have their own niche in the market. Briggs for the lower cost masses, and Kohler for the higher end, higher quality market. Hence the price difference.
Personally, I'd spend a little more for the Kohler.

By neil otto on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Oh this is fun! I'll let you know how it all turns out. Seems a little ironic that my modern Max was hauled home behind my 30 year old Cushman Trackster (howling and smoking at a whopping 8 mph) I used a Fram filter on the blown Briggs, and yes I will do penance for that. I did let it idle for a little while. Thanks, Neil

By Ernie Savinsky (Lucky45) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Fram? used then OK, I think something else went wrong or you used an incorrect # that fit but should not be used on a Briggs? Well on to the BS dimensions chart to see if you guys are right.
It seems the only option is buying that Kohler with turned down to 1" crankshaft to accept clutch?

By Ernie Savinsky (Lucky45) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Neil: This guy wants a Vanguard parts Engine!
http://www.leostar.com/viewad/254956


I sense a lot of fear/fobia that the 23HP w/pump will woop the Kohler so I want one!

By ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hey ernie:

on one inch shaft by 2.91" you can go on HONDA 20 hp....(northern tool..# 60205-b951)..at 1,249.99 + muffler (60185r-b951) at 127.99.....20 amp charger.........very reliable engine!!!...repower and back to bounce!!