By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I was reading a 4x4 magazine, looking at photos of rigs climbing 60 degree or steeper rock chutes. They go up these pretty slow and I didn't read where they trashed their motors because of oil starvation.

Then I read the 25hp Kohler Command owners manual (MAX 900T) and it states that operating at angles in excess of 25 degrees will cause damage due in inadequate oiling.

So I was wondering what you folks have experienced. Should I be concerned about oil starvation? What kind of slopes have you folks conquered? Has anyone trashed an engine due to lack of oil pressure?

By Troy Moore (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don,
I have climb hills of 60 & 70 degree and have yet to have a problem. I even tried to climb hills that the 25hp Kohler moter didn't have the low end power to get me up. Most of the very steep hills that I have climb has been small. I have not climb any mountains that steep. I don't think you should worry about it.

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Troy somehow I don't see the 25hp running out of power. If you are not getting to the top, there is something else holding you back. The little 14hp will either go up or flip over.

MaxRules

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I keep hearing all this talk of fantastic hill climbing ability. I have to wonder how many people actually know what a 45-degree incline is. As an experiment I took 3 guys out with me along with an electronic level which is capable of reading degrees of incline. I had them along with myself try to judge several banks and steep hills. I found that all of us initially judge them to be much steeper than they actually were. At first a couple guys were estimating grades at over twice what they actually were. I found most of the ones we judged to be 45 were only 25 to 30. 45 degrees is mighty steep my friends, especially if there is any length to the incline. We found a bank about 30 feet in length and measured it at 44 degrees. I asked who wanted to try it with me. They all said it was impossible. I was able to drive the MAX IV up it but it felt like it was standing on the rear wheels. Traction turned out to be the biggest factor as it took several attempts to find the right groove. You had to be nice and straight to the incline or it would slide off sideways. I now can routinely climb this hill but still swear it feels steeper than 44 degrees. Claims of up to 70 degrees seem to me to be an exaggeration. I would bet if you jacked the front end of a machine up to equal a 70-degree incline that it would flop over and stand on end. There is no way to climb that steep a grade unless it's only 2 feet high. Find some way to accurately measure inclines and judge for yourself.
I can't comment on the Kohler engine but I too have rolled the Max over and the 18hp Briggs amazingly did continue running till I shut it off. Upon getting it upright again I was amazed how easily it started and how little it smoked when it did. Yet the oil level was still fine. I have flipped mowers over and almost choked to death in the smoke. Go figure!
Tim

By Joel Haslett (Rustyjeep) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Tim,We have played around with steep inclines with our Jeeps on some dry granite ledges near here.The angles can be very decieving.A few years ago I bought a "clinometer" or Tilt meter.I was suprised to find out what I thought was about 50degrees was only about 30 degrees. When I was at Humphrey NY. in '99 I asked one of the MAX factory guys if they ever thought of making a "tilt meter" as an option for the MAX ,I thought people would buy it. You can get a Clinometer in J.C.Whithey or where 4x4 accessories are sold for about $20 to $30 .It is a lot of fun to see just what angle you are at.Passengers get a real kick out of it. By the way how is your Allsport Tracker doing? There has been one for sale near here for pretty cheap money.

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Joel
The tracker is about half done but been put on hold till spring. I have most of the parts but need to do the body work and painting which has to be done outside in warmer weather. I'm currently working on restoring an old Farmall F-14 tractor this winter so I've been on the tractor discussion boards. The Passe Par Tout is together and in good running condition.
I might look into one of those Tilt Meters. Of course it might be hard to read while your concentrating on not flipping over!
Tim

By Troy Moore (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Tim, I do agree with you that most people can't guess what incline a hill is, but I do have a picture of climbing up a hill that is very close if not over 70 degrees. The hill was only about 12 maybe 14 foot high and it was not 70 degree all the way up, only about the last 6 feet or so. Brandon took the pic of me and I had 4 tires off the ground. I almost did flip it. The pic is on Brandon's web page http://www.homestead.com/maxatvs/Max.html under ride at Patawatomi. I only was able to make it up the hill once.

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Troy
Get some way to accurately measure that incline in the picture. I guarantee it is no where near 70 degrees! It looks little if any steeper than my 44-degree incline. The guys with me said my front wheels were off the ground by 6" at 44. Just look at the incline of the Max in the picture and you can tell is no where near 70. 90 would be straight up and down and you're a long ways from that. I admit when your driving it sure feels like 70 but in reality it isn't. It really is deceiving. Measure it.
Tim

By Don Abernathey (Dla) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Troy: I'm with you - I think the upper part of that hill is 70 degrees. I had to stare at the picture a bit to see it.

Were you going fast or slow to make that hill? Given the apparent center of gravity of the MAX, I wouldn't think the wheels would come off the ground.

By the way, if the oil pressure drops, does it trigger an audible alarm or shut the motor off?

By Troy Moore (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don,
I was going some what slow. I had no room to get a running start. I started at the bottom and tried to take it easy, without a roll cage, I didn't want to roll it. After looking at the pic, I didn't try to make it anymore. I didn't know the front 4 tires where off the ground. I don't know if a audible alarm will sound if the oil pressure drops. I have never heard a alarm when climbing hills from my atv or any other atv.

By Gord Young on Unrecorded Date: Edit

It does look like a nice little hill by the roadside gents, but 70 - 80 degrees ??? I think not. From the picture it looks more like 45 to 50 degrees tops!

Go and look at a retaining wall, any retaining wall in your town.... retaining walls are constructed to 80 degrees.

If you don't believe me, take a protractor and look at 70 degrees. Then look at your photo.

I leave it to you...

Gord

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Just for the sake of argument I will concede to 50 degrees, which is still 5 degrees more than the factory claims is possible. I definitely know it's more than I would want to try knowing firsthand what 44 feels like. And just compare the difference between 45 and 50. I want to take nothing away from Troy because he must have big gonads to climb it especially without a roll bar. But do like Gord says and really take a look at what 70 degrees looks like. If I have time Ill hook up the winch on mine and hoist it up to 70 degrees and take a picture to show what it would look like. I still say 45 is a heck of a lot steeper than most people believe. I also swore before actually measuring it that it looked and felt steeper than that.
Tim

By P.J. on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Joel: I agree, a clinometer is a great idea for an AATV. Using one in sterile conditions will tell you exactly what your machine (and you) are capable of. This way you can use it in remote locations to avoid any nasty surprises. By the way, they are easier to find if you search for Grade/Tilt guages or indicators. They are cheap and can save you time and money (and your butt!).
Great safety feature!

By Troy Moore (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey guys, I am not saying that the hill was 70 degrees and nothing less. I don't have a clinometer, so I could not tell you for sure what the degerees was exactly. I know what 90 degree looks like and I know what 45 degree looks like. To me it looked somewhere in between them. That would make it about 65 degree. It may be a little less, I do plan on buying a clinometer and next time I am there, I will messure it and see. I wasn't really trying to climb it at first. I was just going to go up as far as I thought I could go, then the next thing I knew, I was over the steep part. Like I said before, I didn't try and I don't think I will try to climb it again. At least not without a roll cage.
Hustler

By Craig Wentling (Craig2) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I'm a retired Army helicopter(UH-1V)pilot and 45 degrees really feels steeper then it looks. I have an ARGO Bigfoot and I take it on hills behind my home that are very steep, haven't measured them, but they are around 45 deg. They feel like 60.
Anyway my ARGO starts to have fuel starvation on some of the steeper ones. Thinking about an electric fuel pump, set to 1lb. pressure. Anyone know of a good little pump with adjustable pressure ? My wife and kids all quads and I pull them out of the mud and tow them, but they are fun too.Well have fun and keep the clean side up.