Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through January 11, 2001	33

By David Bass on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Had my throttle freeze once. Of course it froze wide open. Having a momentary lapse of good judgement, I walked up to the front of my MaxIV and turned the key over so it would start warming up and thaw out my cable. Unfortunately it was in gear with the throttle frozen wide open. It ran me over and took out my mom's flower planter by her front door. It was trying to climb up on the roof when I finally caught up with it and got the key turned off. Sure am glad those tires don't exert much pressure on the ground.

By Greg Swanstrom on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Is there any way to grease the midle axels on a Max without removing the wheels? Any tips would be appreciated.

By mjlemon on Unrecorded Date: Edit

ok guys i'm wondering can you put 28 in outlaws on
a max or argo.

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

No they will not fit. 26" is as big as you can go on the Max IV. The Argo Bigfoot might take a 26" tire. But why would you want the Outlaws? They would give more ground clearance but the bad far out weighs the good. They wouldn't give any water speed and this really hurts amphibious vehicles in the mud. In mud with water on top, the amphib needs to have good water tires so it can swim through, dragging the bottom across the mud. A 4x4 quad needs the Outlaws because it will be at the bottom of the mud searching for traction.
The Outlaws are a very heavy tire and will really hurt the whole drive system of the vehicle they are on. You lose lots of power running a bigger tire also.

MaxRules

By cmdr vogt on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Greg,
The answer is yes , Recreatives has designed a
fitting that will allow you to grease your
bearrings while leaving your machine intact.
Brandon,
I saw the pics of of your ride and it looked like
it must of been a blast! Keep me posted as to your
next ride and maybe I can rally some of my friends
& customers to attend.
Have you actually mounted any 27" or 28" tires, it
appears that you could easilly fit 27" tires W/
room to spare,although I did say "appears" and I
could very well be wrong.
I would be very carefull as to what type of tread
you run , as manuvering at speed could become
dangerous do to excessive traction and a loss of
the ability to slide through turns (IE. you may
have more traction than you want!).
PS. My E-mail has changed to :
airborn6@bellsouth.net
, My old juno account is
no longer in use.
Kyle (Cmdr Vogt)
Airborn-Six Paintball & 6x6 ATV,s

By TODD JOHNSON on Unrecorded Date: Edit

HELLO TO ALL YOU EXPERTS,
I AM IN THE PROCESS OF LOOKING FOR A AATV, I HAVE AND DO OWN A NUMBER OF 4-WHEELERS, BUT I NOW OWN LAND NEXT TO A RIVER. I HAVE CUT A TRAIL ON MY PROPERTY USING A MINI-EXCAVATOR AND HAD TO CROSS TWO SMALL CREEKS TO GET THERE. THERE IS TWO VERY STEEP HILLS I HAVE TO TRAVERSE BOTH BEING ABOUT 50 DEGREE'S OF INCLINE AND 100-150FT LONG. SO THE MAIN QUESTION IS A UNIT LIKE THIS CAPABLE OF THIS TYPE OF TERAIN. ALSO THE RIVER I'LL BE TRAVELING IN IS NOT VERY DEEP BUT AT TIMES IT RUNS FAIRLY FAST, SO WHAT UNIT WOULD YOU GUYS SUGGEST I LOOK FOR UNDER THESE SIRCUMSTANCES. THANKS FOR YOU HELP.
TODD

By John Kevin Maiolo (Johnmaiolo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I'm not an expert, however I would go with a MAX 4
900T 26" tires, with a small outboard mounted on the rear for the river current.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

todd you dont want opinions, heres what you do, have a bunch of us ideots over for a ride and let the proof be in who servives, or realy what i mean is,observe the results of this real world test for yourself,
maybe it will be 1 guy 1 day 2 on another ect.. but test them out yourself, ride along with them, watch them and then make your desition,
of couars you will need to tell people where your at and if you fill out a profile it will be easyer for people here to e-you, and dont forget to fill out an owner registry anyway even though your looking, that way it will help people from your state to e-you for a apointment to demo there favoret atv for you,have fun,

By Steve J on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Todd,

I would go with the Argo Bigfoot. The Bigfoot will go nice up and down the hills with the low gear and will travel smooth across the water. Plus the Bigfoot has some cargo area and can also carry four people if needed.

Steve

By Midwest atv's #1 in 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Todd,
I would say the Max IV 900T with the 26" tires will be the best, but that is just my opinion. I agree with David. You need to get some people over with both atv's and see how each will do. Do remember though, an experience driver will do the best no matter which atv he has. I would say maybe call some of the dealers around and have them come over and give you a test drive. I can't help you with Argo's, but I can tell you where the closest Max dealer is if you email me. Good luck.

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Todd -

I'd suggest one of the Argos, with an outboard motor mount. Argos & Maxes aren't boats, and don't like strong currents. You'll want a motor in the river. Although I've never driven a Bigfoot, I have driven the Vanguard2 and the Response. I think the 8-wheel design has better handling and traction than the 6 wheel.

By Joe Jackson on Unrecorded Date: Edit

MAX IV with 26" tires offers the best water and land performance. 2.5 mph in the water for the argo. 6 mph in the water for a MAX IV with 26" tires. For those of you who cannot figure it out thats 41.166% better.

By john prince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

My two cents stays the same: Max climbs better, turns better on climbs, especially as it gets steeper. Argo goes down better, lower gear a very big plus. I have to deal with 1/4 mile steep runs. If I had only to deal with 100 to 150' steep runs, a Max would do just fine.

By matt435 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I would go with the argo big foot. I own a bigfoot and a max 2. the bigfoot goes better in the water due to the tire size. And the argo offers a real outboard motor mount. Max does not. I have both a 44 pound thrust trolling motor and a 5 hourse gas outboard. For small river runns the troling motor is fine if you are not in a hurry but the gas motor takes you there as if you were in a row boat with a outboard. Also the low gear is great for hills and rough terain. Matt

By Joe Jackson on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The best advice I can offer is to try them both and see which one you like the best for your application. My findings through about a month of research was that any MAX will out perform any argo in the water. And any MAX IV 18hp or larger will out perform any argo on land. I bought a IV-900T. 35mph on land 6 mph in the water.

By TJJ on Unrecorded Date: Edit

GUYS, THANKS FOR THE INFO. I WOULD LIKE A DEMO OR A OWNER TO SHOW ME THE ABILITIES OF THESE MACHINES. SO IF THERE ARE ANY OWNERS OR DEALERS IN THE SOUTHERN MN. AREA I WOULD LOVE TO BE IN CONTACT WITH YOU. SEEMS LIKE THERE ARE A COUPLE OF DIFFERNT UNITS THAT WOULD FIT MY TERRIAN. I HAVE FILLED OUT THE PROFILE SO ANY OF YOU MAY E-MAIL ME. THANKS AGAIN FOR YOU HELP.
TODD

By Ken Thompson on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Joe Jackson,

I don't know whose Max you're riding but I had a 25hp Max IV and it did not got 35MPH on land. And it did not go 6 MPH in the water either. That I'm afraid is a sales pitch and the tape Max shows, well I think it is in fast forward. My Max IV went about 25MPH on land and about 2.5MPH on the water with the 26" tire option. The best 6x6 I've seen for water use is the Argo Vanguard with the Runamuck tires. Those tires are like paddles they are even better that the Rawhide III tires in the current. I now have a Bigfoot and I am pleased. I see no major differences in the water performance from the Max to the Argo. Also someone mentioned that the Max turns better. I don't see that either both machines are equal turning wise. Drive both machines on your property. Take a good look at the design and the quality of the con struction on both machines. Make your choice on those factors.

Ken

By Joe Jackson on Unrecorded Date: Edit

My numbers come from a gps. I have checked the accuracy with my car. It is dead on.

The exact numbers were 34.5 mph on land and 5.5 on water. Forgive me for rounding.

Any MAX goes faster than 2.5 in the water. you must be confusing it with the argo brochure. Or as Brandon likes to say you never owned a MAX.

As I said before try them both and make you decision.

By fred sain on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The problem you guys are having with corrosion can be helped a great deal by a product we use called Dry Molly, it is made by Sprayon, the phone number on the can is 800-955-6737. This is the best stuff we have found it is a dry lube that stays on metal much better than anything we have tryed. Hope this helps!

By Ken Thompson on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Joe,

I have owned a Max IV and I tested the speed against a certified radar gun! Ok I will admitt that I didn't use the radar in the water so I guessed at 2.5 but I know I am not 3 MPH off. I just went riding last weekend with 6 other machines one being a Max IV 25hp brand new only 30 hrs. We all crossed a small pond and were kinda racing. The Argo Vanguard won and the rest of us were pretty much tied. I have owned several boats and feel pretty comfortable saying that we were go around 2.5/3 MPH. You probably shouldn't listen to Brandon.

Ken

By john prince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well, the campgrounds are closing and its looking like I will have a nice flat lake all to myself for a month or so. Time to figure see how a Van 2 handles in water. Couple of items come to mind: Running Rawhide III tires, best configuration was V tread running forward on middle two tires, backward on front and back. I am wondering if this will work in water, or if I should just go ahead and reverse the front and back tires?

And then the question of an outboard? Some say an electric outboard isn't going to be much diff from tires. Others say a 5hp gas outboard would be a big difference? Comments?

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

john,
I put a 6 horse evinrude on the back of my bigfoot and the speed is 8-10 mph. I have tried big trolling motors and they do work better than the tires but not enough for me to justify the cost of the big trolling motor plus the battery. the outboard is the simplest of the two for me.

P.S. when i am using the outboard I have a hundred pound black lab in the back, shotgun plus ammo and a net surrounding my entire machine, my floating/driving duck blind. this is a good load of cargo and this is how the motor preforms. and dont forget all the ducks and the fuel tank. hope this helps your decision.

By Argotony on Unrecorded Date: Edit

John,

Best tread pattern would be all 6 tires v forward. Still the machine will be slower than with the runamuck tires. 5 to 8 hp outboard works great. I have a 5hp with the gas tank connected to the motor. Argo goes about 8mph maybe 10 depends on the current. I found the best way to outfit the motor is to make a bracket that connects into the reece hitch. This way you can lower the bracket slightly to ensure that the prop is always submerged. I seen one at the Humphrey ride and made one for my machine. The bracket works great and can be taken off when not in use..later


Tony

By Silly Ideas on Unrecorded Date: Edit

why don't you bolt a 225 Hp Merc bad boy on that thing and really get it going you might be just able to keep up with brandon!!!!!!! Ha Ha.

By dumb comments on Unrecorded Date: Edit

geez! i wish my ferrari F1 could keep up with brandons aatv!

By Silly Ideas on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The only way a mere Ferrari f1 could do it is if you add adapters that let you fit 2 exta wheels to every wheel to lower the "psi on the ground" cause my friends thats all that counts!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and maybe a helicopter rotor for added floatation.

By David Keeso on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I Have an ARGO 8x8 Magnum. When i run it in water, the back end sits very high out and doesn't seem to run as well as it should. The tires are brand new and it is in incredable condition. Any ideas?

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David - I have an 8x8 Response. I've had it in the water with just me, and nearly fully loaded. Yes, running light it does feel out of trim, but I think it handles better. I think with the rear tires riding higher hey give less back-thrust. (Look at a paddle-wheel river boat and compare how much of their paddles are in the water compared to our tires) I'd suggest loading some tools & stuff in your Argo for ballast, then take it swimming and see how it handles.

By David Keeso on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have had the ARGO 8x8 Magnum in water with people in the back and it didn't seem to be much better than when Im alone. The tires are fairly new, but it still seems to have a problem. Does the amount of weight in the rear compartement make a difference to performance in the water? Also, I found that the best way to get the vehicle to turn faster was to lean slightly into the turn. Also, how much throttle are you really supposed to use providing that the water is calm? I know that too much just creates a lot of disturbance, but not enough and the vehicle just sits there.

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David- I also find leaning into the turns helps. My theory is this. Any part of the tire that is in the water pushes. The part of the tire below the axle pushes forward. The part above the axle pushes backwards. All of the tires provide some forward thrust and some backward thrust. The trick is to trim the vehicle so that you get more forward thrust on each side than backward. When you lean, the low side generates less net forward thrust and the high side generates more. You turn. If you keep your passengers seated so that the rear is a little high, you should get better performance. As for how much throttle, too much and the tires throw so much water that it doesn't help. I'd guess I use about half throttle. My technique is to open the throttle slowly. When I get to the point hat giving it more gas makes more "noise" but not more "go," I hold the gas there. I really wish these buggies had a better drive systemn in the water - a small propeller on each side, or water jet, or something.

By David Keeso on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks Dougmac- Ill try it. Hopefully, their will be soem water at the cottage this year. The water levels have been so low down, i have to start looking for another spot on the shore to ride. I found a creek at the end of the bay and a friend who has a 4 wheeler and me, we go down and he usually ends up getting in with me in the Argo. The only problem is the really sticky mud. The Magnum doesn't like sticky mud. And I agree, the drive system in water has to be improved. The guy who does the repair and maintenence was a dealer around my cottage-retired now, but he got a 6x6 custom made with the bigfoot and conquest. Now their is an actual model, but he said the bigfoot tires don't do well in water. Is this true?

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David -

The Bigfoot uses the Rawhide tires, which I've heard work well in the water. All I've used are the Runamucks. I agree, Argos do not like sticky mud. Especially deep sticky mud. I tried to cross the bed of a drain artificial lake. I did not get too far!

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David -

The Bigfoot uses the Rawhide tires, which I've heard work well in the water. All I've used are the Runamucks. I agree, Argos do not like sticky mud. Especially deep sticky mud. I tried to cross the bed of a drain artificial lake. I did not get too far!

By lvnash on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I am planning on buying an Argo Conquest. I have
never owned an AATV before. I am a duckhunter and
intend to run it a lot in still water.

I was interested in the comments about electric motors vs. gasoline (outboards). One of the places I want to run allows electric outboards but not gas. I intend to get the big alternator (40 amp) on the Conquest. I thought I could keep the batteries for a high-thrust electric outboard charged up this way, shut off the Argo engine when in that area, and just run on the outboard.

I'm interested on info on how fast you were able to run with a particular AATV and a particular-size electric outboard.

Larry Nash

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Larry,
You are buying the best machine for duckhunting. as far as the alternator that is a good idea, you will also want a second marine battery, probably located in the back of the machine because the small battery will not be able to handle a high thrust trolling motor. I have a 6 hp evinrude for my bigfoot and I might at the most get 10 mph on smooth water with no wind. I do not suspect you will get that with a trolling motor, but you never know, they are coming out with some powerful ones. you will accomplish your goal of quietly going to were you want to hunt, I could not give you a definite on the speed though. good luck. welcome to the world of aatvs, you will love it.

By P.J. on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Larry: I have an Argo Response and am also looking for info on a suitable outboard. I used to have a Vanguard and used a 36lb. thrust Minn Kota electric motor. It moved it along okay in still water but I never tried it over any distance. For quiet putting around in still water I think the 36lb. motor (I hope) will be okay for my Response. I'm trying to decide which outboard to get for using on my moose hunt. I'm thinking a 5 horsepower Honda with a long shaft might be the trick. Anyone out there with any thoughts about my choice?

P.J.

By ARGOMAG on Unrecorded Date: Edit

P.J.

I have never put an outboard on my ARGO MAGNUM, but I do know that if you put one on, you can go up to 9.9 HP. Also, the long shaft is the best bet. You can order a small attachement to go on to the trailor hitch that is in a v shape. The long tail from the motor, will fit into the attachement and support it. It also helps reduce the weight on the outboard bracket. With the fitting in place, you also won't run into any problems with the shaft hitting the hitch. As far as hp. a mercury 6 HP is a very good engine. However, Honda is also good. Hope this helps some.

By J Mark on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I am also interested in outfitting my Argo Conquest with either an Outboard Motor or a Trolling Motor. What is the ideal thrust for a trolling motor for an 8 wheeler? I was told by my dealer that above 60 lbs thrust is needed. However, above 55 lbs typically results in a 24 Volt system. Any further experience and/or insight on this subject would be greatly appreciated. THANKS!!!

By Gord Young on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Gents,

I have a Conquest and I use tires in water for short trips, owever for longer trips and for trolling I use my 2HP Long Shaft Honda 4 stroke. You absolutely need a long shaft for the ARGO models. I've used this outboard with my previous ARGO, a Vanguard as well. The long shaft is needed sue to the height of the motor mount and the height of the rear of the ARGO when in Water. I also recommend using a few large rocks in the back or some other easily attainte ballast weight to keep the rear down. All Motors have an anti-cavitation plate above the propellor however it is my experience that this cativation plate needs to be submerged about three to four inches for the propellor to work properly.

I am about to use a Yacht motor mount to allow the outboard to be raised and lowered while mounted. This will permit land travel while ensuring there is no damage to the motor. They are available in the Cabella's catalogue and at Yacht dealers. Its commonly used as a sailboat motor mount. They are spring loaded and permit the motor to be locked in the vertical position ( its strongest position) and raised approximately a foot. I expect this will work well.

As far as power is concerned. You have to ask yourself what you want to be able to do. Water Ski-ing is out of the question! The drag of the tires is significant! I find a 2HP Honda ( performs like a 4HP 2 stroke I'm told by the dealer) is sufficient to troll at minimum throttle at 0.5 knots... I estimate 6 knots at full throttle. There is an engineering rule that dictates that in order to double this speed, You will need an engine that is "X-cubed" times the power and thrust. That is to say, it 6 knots is not fast enough ( more than 3 times the tire speed in water)it means you will need atleast a 8 HP engine (2x2x2 = 8 or 2 cubed). This extra speed will come at a premium! I bought my Honda for $750 Canadian. I am sure the 9.9 HP is a little more!! A Lot more!!

As far as a 24 Volt system is concerned, you might want to discuss that one with a trolling motor dealer. The expense of the motor, Deep Cycling batteries, battery boxes and Deep Cycle charger is nothing to sneeze at. Potentially just as expensive as a Gas motor. Remember that there is also a requirement to securely fasten the batteries otherwise there is risk of cracking a cell and its resultant damage to the chassis of the ARGO. Not trying to scare you just to remind you of the risks.

Good Luck

Gord

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I just tried my ARGO MAGNUM in water again with weight in the back. I had a friend in there on the left (almost middle) and me on the right at the controls. With the back end down, their is defanitly a difference in performance but is their a way to get the vehicle to repond better when trying to turn? When ever I went to turn, I had to keep the lever out until is started to finally turn and then it started swimming sidways. How do I fix this?

Also, when my friend went to get into the back, it was obviously tippy. he leaned to one side and caused the entire vehicle to tip hard (not right over, but enough to scare the crap out of me). How stable are they when tilted to one side. Do the tires provide enough flotation to keep the vehicle upright?

Any help would be welcomed.

And just for the records on the ARGO being 3-4 wheel drive, next time any of you are in the water with your ARGO, stop both sides, pull the lever back, and give it gas. Obviously one side will not turn, now slowly let go of the lever so both are against the block. Look at the side that was stopped. It takes a very long time for the tires to start going at the speed of the rest. Now punch it into full throttle and they still don't get going fast.

However,I still believe that ARGO RULES hands down.

By Al on Unrecorded Date: Edit

David,
I have found that the best way to turn in water is to lean. When the tires rotate in the water, the bottom part of the tire pushes you forward, but the top part of the tire that is in the water pushes you backward. So, when you lean to the right, the top of the left tires comes up out of the water, and the left side speeds up and turns very well. I just wish these machines could go faster in the water.

Al

By jerry smith (Deerhunter) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a argo bigfoot and I made a outboard motor mount that slides into the receiver hitch at the bottom and attaches to the two bolts at the top where the old wooden mount was.This system works real good plus it permits you to use a short shaft motor and take the stress off the back end of the argo.It is "L" shaped and moves the motor 12" back and 8" lower, plus it only takes a couple of min. to install. good luck;

By Al on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Jerry,
If you have any pictures of your outboard motor mount, please send to allinv@hotmail.com I would like to make one too.

Thanks,
Al

By Dave Johnston on Unrecorded Date: Edit

WATER TRAVEL. My Argo Conquest has a motor limit on it of less than 10 hp. Funny how that works, as there are a lot of 9.9 HP motors out there. Obviously there must be a BUNCH of state laws say things like "motors of 10 hp and over must...."
Such as in California. California is a dirty smog state and has been busy passing laws like crazy. One being all new outboards must be FOUR Stroke, however there does seem to be an exemption on motors of, you guess it, less than 10 HP... But when you think you escaped the California lawmakers, they exempt the exemption for Lake Tahoe and other "endangered lakes." So before you go out and buy an outboard motor to stick on the back of your 6x6 or 8x8 check the laws in the states you plan on using it. One ticket may more than make up for the extra cost of the FOUR stroke.

By Al on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Good advice Dave,

Another advantage of a 4 stroke outboard would be that with a little engineering, you could use the gas out of your main fuel tank.

Al

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Al - Hadn't thought about using the main fuel tank for an outboard. Interesting idea!! I've been trying to come up with a good idea for getting better performance and handling in the water, and haven't come up with anything practical. I'd love to be able to use the amphib's own engine in the water, via a propeller or water jet instead of the tires. Wouldn't have to be horribly efficient to be better than the tires.

By Al on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Doug,
I know what you mean, The water speed of the tires leaves something to be desired, and the problem with an outboard is protecting it from damage when you are not in the water.

As far as mounting an outboard, go to
http://www.quadratec.com
and search for part number 5441

It is a spare tire holder for a reese hitch, and looks to me like it might make a nice mount for an outboard?

Al

By Joe M. on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I am still undecided on purchasing either an outboard or a trolling motor. However, after last weekend, I've decided that another means of water propulsion is essential in my Argo Conquest.

I was crossing a narrow river that had a fairly strong current. As soon as I entered the water, it was all over! I have super tracks installed and even at higher track speeds, the track thrust was insufficient to direct the Argo. Worst of all, nothing seemed to work to land the Argo on the moderately sloped, grassy shoreline. I finally abandoned ship and anchored the Argo to a tree. Then using the Super Winch, I was able to finally leave the water - after 1000 feet of river rafting fun. Yes, I fully admit, I have limited (very limited) experience with my Argo (i.e. don't know what the heck I'm doing). However, I have never been stuck in many swamp crossings and crossing standing, deep water.

Any tips on what I should have or should not have done to cross a river with a moderate current. Please don't bother saying the obvious (i.e. don't cross rivers with moderate currents).

Thanks for any input and yes, after leaving the water I realized that the overall experience was a blast. The winch worked great!!!

Thanks,
Joe

By Al on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Joe,
From what I have heard, an electric trolling motor is not much better than the tires. I would reccommend a 9.9 HP outboard for crossing a current. That might not help much with driving out of the water?

Be careful, and wear a life jacket. A couple of 19 year olds lost their lives here in Cleveland, Ohio on Mother's day rafting on a rain swollen river, even WITH life jackets.

Al

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

If the current is fairly strong that it could pose navigation problem, try entering the river or water somewhere else where the current may not be as strong. Using tracks in the water gives you no propulsion and getting out is tough because when the tracks are wet, they slide on the mud banks and grass. Another way is to try and back out of the water. Because the 8x8 have more front end weight, the ass end is higher. Try backing out in water so that the back is higher and you can get out easier. Also try going as fast as possible using as much throttle as possible withoug creating too much turbulance in the water.

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Joe, my first suggestion is don't try crossing water with tracks. Everything I've read on Route6x6 about tracks warns that they are near useless in water. If you gotta have tracks, you need a propeller. The trolling motor is nice & quiet, but batteries can be heavy. Gas engines have lots of authority in the water, but the noise is a bother. Not to mention how do you reach the motor controls from the 8-wheeler's driver's seat.

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Al -

I looked at the part. Interesting possibility. I wish I had the mechanical skill to put short drive extensions off the rear axles, with a 90 degree gear to a dog clutch on each side of the vehicle's rear. Hook up a frame with a couple propellers that engage the dog clutches just before entering the water, and pull them off after you climb out. I can picture it. I just can't build it.

By Joe M. on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks guys for the advice; your feedback is most appreciated.

Regarding tracks in water: I have been very impressed so far with tracks used in water. However, I must note that the water I have been in has been primarily ponds, swamps, stagnant creeks, etc. This was really the first time I used my Conquest to cross a river with a moderate current. I did attempt the backing up technique, but David, you're right, the tracks slip on wet, muddy grass.

The next time I attempt such a crossing, I will be more prepared. David, your comment on creating turbulence versus forward motion I believe is spot on. I will try that technique next time I'm in the water. I believe I was causing far too much turbulence instead of forward motion. I should have found the threshold between forward motion and simply generating turbulence.

Doug, your absolutely right, there are pros and cons to either a trolling motor or an outboard.
Unfortunately, I have not found a trolling motor for transom mounting that is either cable or remote controlled. The cable or remote controlled units are strictly for bow mounting such as Minn Kota units. Perhaps a custom mount could be made, but I'm looking for a "ready to go" setup. I believe it is essential to be able to control both the Argo power unit and the transom mounted motor from the driver's seat.

If anyone knows of a trolling motor that is at least 55 lbs of thrust that is cable controlled or remote controlled via foot operation for transom mounting, please let me know.

If I can't find one, I most likely will pursue an outboard. The noise is another real concern.

Thanks again.
Joe

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Joe, this last weekend, was the May 24th weekend here in Canada. Everyone heads up north for the weekend and me along with them. I had a good opportunity to do some mudding, and water runs with the ARGO MAG. ALthough my tires get worn fast due to road use and very fast and hard donuts, they still have enough tread on them for water. I found that if their is no weight in the back, the less throttle you use. Becasuse part of the tires create reverse motion, you don't wan't them running very fast. The best way to find the threshold is to go into the water (calm water) and just let it sit for a sec to settle the water around you. Very slowly, give it a bit of throttle, until you start moving. Keep it at that level for a little and give it a tiny bit more throttle. If you don't see much of a difference, go back to the way you had it before. MOre trhottle doesn't give you any more speed in water. WIth weight in the back, however, you can give it more throttle depending on how much weight their is in the back. In my case, a friend of mine who is almost 200 lbs, was enough to keep the back end down and thus less reverse motion. As long as all tires are mostly submerged, you will have forwards motion at a fairly good speed. Watch shifting the weight though because it throws off the movement and turns the ARGO. Make really small adjustments in water and when you do this, you avoid over steering.

WHen you turn, i found that once you start to turn, lean and give it a fast burst of gas and really get things moving, and it will get you turned faster but watch out for the spraying water.

Hopefully this helps some. (I experimented with it for about 30 minutes in regards to your last post about getting out of the strean onto the bank.)

Feel free to e-mail me if you have any other questions.

By Dave Johnston on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Another consideration is WEIGHT. The FOUR Stroke engines weigh quite a bit more than the two stroke.
I pretty much decided I am going with a 6 HP FOUR stroke which weighs around 58 pounds. Easier to handle than the 110 pound 9.9 HP motor and it will not get me in trouble with the smog cops in California. I like the idea posted about using the main fuel tank. Should just need a little tubing secured around the side...

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Joe -

My canoe is a kayak/canoe hybrid. In order to use the trolling motor in the boat, I had to rig a tiller extension and a remote battery switch. The switch is just a momentary on-off switch with a lock to hold it "on." The tiller ran up the side of the boat, and is pushed forward & back instead of side to side. The only drawback was that you had to set the motor speed ahead of time. I was going to try the same thing in my Response. What do you think?

By Gary Fitzpatrick (Fitzville) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a new maxIV which is really hard to shift forward or reverse. Any Tips on making it easier. The instructions say pull both levers back with one hand but the levers are to far apart for my hand. I would appreciate any advise.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Gary, it takes about 25 hours of use for the tranny to loosen up and it gets easier to shift as the machine gets more hours. you can use your hand and your arm (keep the palm open with the fingers stretched out and you might be able to reach most of both levers) to pull both levers back at the same time. I find it easiest to shift just as the machine comes to a stop. If the tranny hangs on you, use your body rhythm to rock the machine while you hold the foot brake - the gears should line up. As the last resort and be very careful if you do this because you can ruin your tranny by grinding the gears: rev the engine just a little and as it slows down, try to shift as the gears line up. If you force the shifter when things aren't lined up you will break the shift collars or bend the linkage. as you get more familiar with the machine, you will learn how to shift it easily, but there will always be times when it is a pain to get into the other gear.

By Gary Fitzpatrick (Fitzville) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Fred Thanks for the info.
Gary

By Gary Fitzpatrick (Fitzville) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I had a thrilling experiance with my new MAXIV. I drove into a friends pond slow like the book instructs. I'm 180 my buddy 200. Entry to the pond flat bank about 6". The water is deep right off the bank. Water rushed over the front my buddy got into back to try to stop water from coming in. I gunned it to try and make the other side (30ft). The motor died and the Max rolled over. My Marlin 444 was in back and went to the bottom. We tied the upside down machine to a tree on the bank and then the two of us were able to turn it over. The winch still worked so we got it on land. Pulled the plugs blew out the air cleaner and changed the oil and filter. After turning the motor over with the plugs out a lot of times we got the water out and got it started.
My luck the only way back without cutting a fence was thru the pond. No problem. We thought that two heavies in the front was the cause of our earlier misfortune so I was going back sans passenger. Wellll!! guess what. Same kind of entry slow like the book says flat bank with deep water right off the bank. Almost made it this time and at least stayed upright but the motor drowned. Well three oil changes plug pulls etc.later all is well. I'm installing two bilge pumps with auto switches as I think that would have saved me at least from going over. I called the factory they couldn't belive it. I guess the problem is the deep water right off the bank. I've gone into my own ponds with no problem but they aren't deep close to the bank. Anybody have suggestions on the best way to enter water under these conditions? Yes the plugs were in both times. My ears are still plugged diving for the rifle which my buddies wife bless her heart found the next day. The moral of the story tie every thing down before you swim the MAX.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

GARRY NEXT TIME YOUR DUE FOR AN OIL CHAING IF ITS WARM OUT TRY IT AGAIN CROSSING THAT SAME BODY OF WATER, (WITH YOUR BATHING SUTE ON OF COARSE)
ONLY TRY IT FASTER ON THE ENTRY PART, GET IT OFF THE BANKING BEFORE IT CAN CHAING PITCH ON YOU,
NOT FULL SPEED OF COARSE BUT MOVING 15MPH OR SO
(YOUR FRIENDS WIFE CAN HOLD THE VIDEO CAMERA)
ALSO LOOK AT YOUR TIRES, BOIENCY ALSO DEPENDS ON THE TIRE SIZE AND INFLATION PSI,
TIRES THAT ARE OVERLY HEAVEY,TOO SMALL OR UNINFLATED WILL NOT HELP KEEP YOUR VEHICLE LEAVEL
ENOPH ON ENTRY INTO THE WATER,
OR WHILE IN THERE ETHER.
NOW THAT YOUR IN THE WATER START FIGURIN OUT HOW TO GET OUT, FOR THIS IF YOUR STILL FLOATIN AND RUNNIN YOU MAY WANT TOO HOOCK UP THE WINTCH FIRST BEFORE YOU TRY WITH THE ENGINE, JUST INCASE THE EXITING FLOODS YOUR VEHICLE YOU CAN INSTANTLY HIT THE WINTCH BEFORE IT COSTS YOU A DROUNDING,
LET US KNOW HOW IT ALL GO'S DOWN OK?

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I don't know what a MAX is like at all, but I suggest that you take a bit more time learning how to drive in water. It took a while to master in my MAGNUM (ARGO) and now i have it down, but extremely slowly always helps.

By Dan Thompson on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi Guys I am from New Zealand and looking at getting an Argo for fishing with a net. We travel across estuary mudflats (about 1.5 km) when the tide is out, and reach the sea where we tend to our fishing nets. If we have a lot of fish to remove the incoming tide makes life a bit hectic so enter the Argo amphibious vehicle. However, will salt water damage the argo this is my question ??

By ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

HEY KIWI MAN!!:

salt water is very corrosive on all metallic non-stainless material...if you take care to flush with fresh water in order to take away salty water splash and sand from your argo axles and rims and also apply some anticorrosive spray like wd-40 and keep greased bearings and chains your aatv will survive fine!!!........don't forget to include yourself on "owner registry" section

By Dave Johnston on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Outboards are good but how are you going to use it? Are you going to drive into the rapidly moving stream with the motor down and running? Pretty risky to the prop. Are you going to drive in then try to get to the back and drop the motor and then start it? By that time you will be down stream quite a ways. I SUGGEST..if you are crossing and recrossing the same stream at the same place, consider running a steel cable from one side to the other. Hook onto the cable and you can pull yourself across. With a little work, you can make a hand crank winch to do the job. Sort of like a ferry. Even if you do not use the cable to help get you across, it will keep you from floating down stream while you get the outboard started..

By Dave Johnston on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Back again. If you are really into mechanics, take a small outboard and encase the prop so you have a jet prop. YOU will need about a 4 inch tube in front of the prop and a 6 inch tube behind the prop. It will work best at lower rpms due to the cavitation problem. The casing will protect the propeller and it will work almost as good. If you are a REALLY good mechanic, make a circular mount for the motor so it can spin 360 degrees. Will give you really fast turns and a way to drive the AATV backwards using forward gearing. Also a cute idea...run some cables so you can steer from the driver seat, instead of having to get in the back.

By MIKE PHILLIPS on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I BOUGHT A MAX IV ABOUT A WEEK AGO. WHEN TURNING I HEAR A GRINDING SOUND IN THE TRANSMISSION. ALSO WHEN COMMING TO A STOP GOING DOWN HILL. IS THIS NORMAL?

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Mike, Yes, that is probaly normal - it's called tranny chatter. As the bands tighten (not completely tight) around the drums, they make noise. As long as the noise stops when the tranny brake is completely engaged and there is no noise when the levers are in the power to wheels position, there is no problem. If you slip steer (bands partially engaged to make a gradual turn) you need to accept the noise.

By Marc Stobinski (Jerseybigfoot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Had a similar problem with my Hustler T20 Added the RI trans additive and the problem stopped.

By John Schwab (Johnschwab) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi Mike - I had the same annoying chatter, 4 ounces of limited slip friction modifier (available at any parts store) added to the transmission and the noise was gone. You will have to replenish the additive each time you change your trans fluid. This was recommended by RI

By F. Brohs on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Has anyone experience with a TRITON predator? We (a fire brigade) ponder purchasing an ATV after having suffered floods (in Europe) to ferry people and stuff through mud/water. What I read in the dealers description, the predator has a more balanced (is centered) motor and also the possibility to run one side forward and the other one backward instead of applying brakes to one side. It is of course a little heavier and a bit more expensive (at least with the 37 hp diesel engine, we would install for ex-protection, as in oil harbour, that is also in our area of ops fuel engines are prohibited)
So any comments on Triton would be appreciated.

Next question?

The TRITON/predator is capable of climbing 45 degrees grade capacity (says the dealer info), what is the ARGO/Conquest´s capability

One more question?

Does anyone know a TRITON dealer within the European Union??

How long is the average delivery time for a TRITON or ARGO conquest ???

THANKS to all answers

F. Brohs

By ISAAC EISENMAN (Tropicjungleboy) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

HEY F.BROHS:

first comes first!!!...smart choise to add an versatile aatv on your rescue equipment.....about the triton stuff...i highly recomend a reliable and easy to handle unit...on that orintation is very usefull to have the front area of aatv "light" as maxes or hustlers are...when you get stuck ( sooner or later you are going to be stuck!!) it's a good feature to have the capacity of a single man operation to reoriented tires ..and that and easily task on maxes where front side is easy to lift so you can skip a little to get "new" tire grip area.....on the long run the hydraulic transfer power method it's simple not reliable due to natural rubber degradation ( on hoses, seal,....) and if your life depend on it....well you can easily catch the picture don't you????.......on the other hand argos offer a deep clean cargo space on back so that's also a extremely good feature.......so logical target will be between max 4 and bigfoot but for that extra flotation capability also argo 8....

By Hap on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have two questions concerning my Max II. 1) I often ride my max in a large creek w/ a very sandy/gravel bottom. Will this sand and gravel damage my max? 2) Does it harm the max to enter the water at speeds of 20 or 25 mph?

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I think it would greatly depend on the depth of the water where you enter. For one thing, if you enter the water at a high speed from any surface on any level or incline, you will make a big splash. However, if you are going downhill into the water, really fast, the front end could get caught under water when you enter. As long as you are aware of the angle you enter on, you should be alright. Sandy and gravel bottoms wont do any damage.

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hap,
You shouldn't have to worry about the sand or gravel. Also entering the water at that speed is fun. In a Max II you shouldn't have any problems. At the Badlands ride, there is a water hole that all of us, Max and Argo climb a nice size hill and then go all out down the hill into the water. We just hit the water and skip across most of it. Very fun! I even got a little air after hitting the water once.

By sierraav8r on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Just how liable is an Argo Bigfoot to capsizing? I've had mine out on Alpine lakes where there were some swells, and the thing seemed to be a bit tippy. I might get it in some shallow water and experiment with how stable it really is..

I got mine insured, just in case she went to the bottom.

By George on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I've always read that all AATVs should only swim in "mellow" conditions. No swells or heavy currents.

George

By mike martindale (Wetsu) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

rumor has it that you can pull the plugs out of a bigfoot,and it won't sink!!!!i personally never tried it(no insurance for stupidity).but logic dictates;you can lean over as far as you can before water comes in over the side's.and that is how far you can go before you capsize.2ft.swells,and 30 knot currents i strongly advise against.unless you are one of those types that would like to go over niagra falls in a barrel.good luck in your quest!

By Roger Smith on Unrecorded Date: Edit

It won't sink to the bottom, but it'll be underwater.. the front end down with the back end floating. This was from a dealer who knew someone who towed an argo with a powerboat. Evidently the tow arrangement let the aatv get pulled under.

By Timothy Schotanus (Mudbuster) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I rolled down a steep sideslope and landed in the water upside down in my MAX4 and it didn't sink. It was almost under and was a nightmare to get out of the water but I can say with experience that a MAX4 with 26" tires wont sink to the bottom.

By maxfactor on Unrecorded Date: Edit

how about a better discription of what happened , did it land on you in the water? how high was the drop,how deep the water. It realy sounds somthing like I would do.

By sierraav8r on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ok, who volunteers to pull his plugs and test the theorys? Who's gonna' take one for the team?

I guess when it looks like you're going down, you need to shut of the engine to avoid sucking water into the heads and hope for the best. A capsized Argo or Max will probably stay afloat if the air bubble under the body isn't disturbed but a slow-filling vehicle MAY go down. I dunno.

You might be right, Rog, about the Bigfoot. I hope so. ('cause that's what I have!)

By BrettBBonner on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I capsized my MaxIV with 26 inch tires in 8 feet of water. The Max is equipped with the roll cage. Basically, I overloaded it, and also lost control of a passenger and the machine. It was floating upside down with the roll cage 2+ feet from the bottom. If definately will not sink.

We righted it like one would right a canoe, turned on the bilge pump, and recovered the machine.

By Timothy Schotanus (Mudbuster) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

When I dumped my machine in the water it was on a path slightly wider than the machine running parallel to the water when some of the ground gave way and sent me over the edge. It was about 6-8feet down to the water at a very steep angle, somewhere between 45 and 60 deg. The machine landed in the water upside down and the problem was that even after we(I was not alone) righted the machine,even if it wasn't full of water and in perfect working order there was no way the machine would come out of the water at that spot. I had no builge pump and no winch so it was a long walk back to the truck to get a come-a-long and try to get the machine far enough out of the water to drain the machine. A quick note:flipping a machine right side up in the water is not as easy as it sounds.

By BrettBBonner on Unrecorded Date: Edit

With regards to righting a capsized machine, I don't recall having an issue. We did have to stabilize it until we had pumped out the water.

The bilge pump was the salvation of the day. RI should have bilge pumps as standard equipment. I think it is a necessity. But like all electrical and battery operated things, you can't depend on them. I also think one should have a manual bilge pump. You need a manual one to effectively get out the water around the chains. A manual one will be in mine next week.

By Andy roy on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I'm a new 6x6 owner do you guys have any tips for building a motor mount for my maxII thanks

By Cliff Barrington (Cliffb) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey you guys with rawhide III's. Will they paddle the water with the chevrons turned forward? The 1's on my hustler pull the mud so much better in reverse with the lugs like they were intended for traction, but won't paddle for crap.I see the 3's have a lot deeper lugs and they have a more horizonal angle at the tire shoulder. Do the 22's have any more noticeable floatation than the 21's?

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Why are the rawhide 3 tires on wrong on the machines, do they just put them that way so they swim? Or do they have to go on that way. WHat happens if you switch the runnamucks the other way, will it swim any better?

By Cliff Barrington (Cliffb) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I'm trying to find out if the 3's will pull in the water if turned with the chevrons forward like a tractor. I know that the 1's will not move in the water at all if they are not turned backards. The 3's tread is very different from the 1's and look like they would paddle turned forward. Surely someone has tried this and can tell me before I buy a set.

By Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Both the 21" and 22" Rawhides are slow in water when on 'wrong' or lugs pointing forward. It is true they give better mud traction. I had IIIs on my old Max II and put them on for mud, opposite of what the factory does. It was almost impossible to cross any water and most mud holes where harder to get through since they had water on top. I had better traction in solid mud, but the trade off wasn't worth it to me. I'd say water speed with either tire on wrong (for mud) is about 1mph with wind blowing you. The 21" tire is barely faster than the 22" when on for water. I'd keep them on correctly for water. Having them this way allows you to actually use your amphibious vehicle, and might even let you back out of a mud hole since traction is better in reverse.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Cliff, The rawhide IIIs will work kinda going backwards. Some say the regular rawhides are better in the water than the IIIs, but I personally don't think so. I think the IIIs work much better in the mud, etc. set up for water propulsion (tread backwards) than the regular rawhides because of the aggresive tread.

What I am saying is you will not have very good water performance with the IIIs on as used for traction in conventional vehicles, but you will have much better traction in mud, etc. with the IIIs than you have with the regular rawhides both set up the same way. My guess is you will have better traction with the IIIs backwards, than the regular rawhide tires on in traction direction. Personally, I think the only time one should use the regular rawhides is if they are using tracks or want to have a very soft footprint.

Hopefully someone else will give you an opinion. Some think I am full of it.

By Cliff Barrington (Cliffb) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks for the feedback.

By Cliff Barrington (Cliffb) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ok, I spung for a set. Just test drove them around today. Don't have any water around deep enough to try them swimming, but I will this weekend when I go work on my duck blind. I can feel the Hustler 16hp Kohler working a little harder to steer at slow speeds and on steep hill sides. I was looking at the driven sprocket on the center axels and thought that if I had it machined off and a little larger one welded on, I could convert some of that unusable top end into more low end power. I have plenty of clearence around the gear to go a little larger. What do ya'll think?

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Cliff, My gearing math is not very good so I don't know how much improvement a tooth or two larger would give you. Clearance would be the major concern; then benefit from dollars invested.

I think you will like the rawhide IIIs.

By Cliff Barrington (Cliffb) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

If I did my math right, with a 15 tooth on the trans and a 26 tooth on the axel, and seeing that the rolling circumference of the 21" is 60" and the 22" is 66", to stay the same would require a 28.5 tooth on the axel. A 30 tooth is only 0.8" larger in diameter than the 26 tooth. I still have plenty of clearence.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Sounds right to me.

By Cliff Barrington (Cliffb) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well those RH III's won't swim forward. I had to cross all the deep parts backwards. But man, will those babies dig. Turned them around as soon as I got home. Got the 30 tooth sprocket ordered. Will let you know how that works out later. Really worked the old Hustler out today. I have an average of 12" of water in the duck spot and 24" of grass and weeds. Spent all day dragging a pipe through it to drag the grass out. Stopped a few times when I started to smell the belt, but it did great. A real test. Fred, thanks for the opinions.

By cliffb on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The larger driven sprocket is a success. The Hustler steers and drives smoother and has more power. I still have more top end than I can use. The RW III's definitely have less waterspeed than the RW I's. But I'll stick with them because I mainly just cross creeks and don't travel much while fully floating. Am agravited though. I was in such a hurry to get the sprockets on that I forgot to turn one of the wheel bearings with the grease hole to the grease fitting. I just hate going back into something that I should not have to. One more question. When I've been going all day, the variable speed gets stiff. I really have to spin it up to get it to gain ground speed. A shot of WD-40 in the motor pully holes and on the trans pully shaft and it's good as new. Is there a prefered lube for this? What have ya'll found to work the best?

By Jerry Becker on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a MaxII and recently installed the Snow Plow option and I really enjoy the machine.
The only real problem I have with it is the comfort of the seating.
Last year I went to the best tractor bucket seats I could buy to help but still is pretty rough ride and I am thinking of going back to the bench seat? Has anyone had any success with a more comfortable seating option?
Thanks,JB

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

jb for more comfort may i sugest you try leaning forward as you drive, let machine pivot under you.
stay loose,
and your tire pressure should be as low as your tires will stay inflated at,
i have reguler rims but drilled and placed screws in them to hold tires firmly so tubes would not be damaged and keep mine aprox 2-2.5 lbs
if you have k-rims yours will stay inflated and on beads at low psi without tricks & tubes!