By Jim Stiver - Western PA MAX Dealer (Viper) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have been talking to an old NATV National Champion who lives locally and we have been discussing the possibility of starting a new racing association. I have recently acquired an original McKay-Attex factory racer myself and am starting to get the bug to race it as soon as I get it restored. I have also been toying with the idea of possibly building a dedicated 6x6 race track here on my property, but am curious as to how much interest there would be. Please post if you would have any interest in participating in sanctioned racing.

Thanks,
Jim Stiver

By Howard Hoover on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I would be interested but only if there were other events such as: mud pits, sled pulls etc. it might be a little too far east for me though. since I live in INDY.

By Jim Stiver - Western PA MAX Dealer (Viper) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Howard,

That could be possible. The venue could be made up of different types of events to show people the many capabilities of our machines. I am located approx. 5 1/2 hour from Indianapolis. I used to go to the ABC auto auction on the east side of town quite frequently. I am located just off of the first exit in PA on Interstate 80, just on the Ohio-PA line. My property is one hour north of Pittsburgh, one hour Southeast of Cleveland, one hour east of Akron and one hour south of Erie, PA. I will keep you informed of any additional developments.

Jim

By Eddie Beddingfield on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Jim, I don't think there will be enough interest to start anything up.I think allthe older machines are to spread out.Back when racing was popular all machines were racers to a point, Some did come with 4 cycle engines.I would like to know the ownership of the 70's vs. the 90's as to location and number of atv,s sold in each region of the country. I would be interested in racing my ss in Illinois but wouldnt want to race my Bigfoot or 8x8 ,not enough speed and to much weight. Eddie

By Damen T.Hill (Argoss) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hey eddie, you got a ss argo too? If you do, can you email me a picture of your ss, if it still has the racing stripe on it, i need to know where to put it on mine, and also do you know anyone else who has one to? And yeah i wish i could find some one to race I still have the ccw 440 for mine (out right now summer before last I blew the clutch sky high) seriously I could not find about 1/8th of the clutch, luckily I had the hood off of it at the time (it was like 102 degrees out so i was vainly trying to keep the 440 cool) right now I have a cast iron techupsa 16hp 4stroke in it (it really sucks) can't start the damn thing when it's cold out.Is kind of nice to have some lowend torq, but soon its getting a liquifire 440cc liquid cooled 2 stroke put in it and a 108xp comet clutch.I am not taking any chances this time, the 108xp's garunteed not to blow up.

By bigkodiak on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I had this consideration as well. I agree that there would be too little interest in such events.
If the events could bew associated in conjuction with a quad event, it would be a start.
Russ

By Eddie Beddingfield on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Damen, Yes I have a Orange SS it is completely restored with new axles , bearings and chains. The stripe was remanufactured by what was left of it. I could tell where the other stripe used to be and put it in same place. If there are any want to be racers, I dont use this machine,it is to fast to do anything with it,even trailride,but if someone wanted to race. Eddie

By kush on Unrecorded Date: Edit

How about racing in the snow, like on Dave's video's? I would love to be able to race on the Jersey Shore. Wildwood has beaches a half mole wide and miles long. they have Monster trucks in the fall why not ATV's?

By roadwolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hey, eddie post some pics of your SS. a lot of us would like to see it.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I know this has come up before, but isn't a 6x6 or 8x8 a bit dangerous when traveling at high speed usually reserved for a vehicle made for that speed? What i mean specifically is that the chains and sprockets would be under tremendous stress at that high of speed and wouldn't this open the doors for disaster or accident to happen? Are any modifications made to them structurally or component wise to make them able to race (Screw the engine- im not talking about the engine part of the machine- that is not stock- don't bring it up!) Can the cluthes, tranny, and other things withstand the stress, and do the tires or wheeles have to be changed?

Damen, how fast does your machine go and how much work do you do with it- What does it really get used for? How far have you pushed it and have you had to make many modifications (again, screw engine modifications- everyone seems to either want it swapped, have swapped, will swap, want to modify, have modified, or will modify engine components- NOTHING NEW!)

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

well i have driven a bit fast from time too time, i can say that older style maxII needs upgrades in the inner bearing department if your going to race it,
neewer modles have them wereas older ones have only bronz bushings.
also the chain adjusters are not up to the extra stess, maybe if i never pushed mine as i did i wouldent have broken my adjusters so often, i had to build stronger adjusters or suffer from more crashes than i have had,
the inner bushings are not up to the heavey duty pounding speeding along under the power of a 2 stroke twin!
even thogh the factory had to reverse part of the fraimwork when they went to inner bearings i have found that they can indeed be made to fit the older ones,
im toying with offering a instalation kit so people can more easaly do this upgrade,
i think the new inner bearings are a bit steep from the factory but it is a good upgrade,
the other things speed brings trouble with are chain wair and more easaly bent axles,
if you can aford them axel bearings extentions like used for tracks will help reduce the bent axels,hollow axels can brake from the pownding right at bolt holes! so solid axels should be on your list too!
(solid axels with extra suport for hub end)
lastly keep an eye on your jack shaft chain tention, keep the right wrench in your onboard tool box, more power used = more strech hear and too loose of a jack shaft chain is dangerouse,
with these things in mind and in check you can speed away! the rest of drive train can take it,
i do use a spaner wrench instead of a punch on outer locking bearing,
P.S
if you can create something to use as a custom fit spacer between end of drive tubes and inside edge of outer bearing you needent then worrie about loosend or broken cam locks on outer bearings ever letting an axel fall out or derail chain,, keep a fire extingisher onboard too!

By Eddie Beddingfield on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Roadwolf, I would like to post pic, but do not have scanner. It does look just like the one in info bank under Argo-70's model sent in by a Mr.Duggan. The only thing I havent been able to find is a pattern for the rear tonneau cover. Everything is as it came from factory ,except I did not want the white upholstery, as it would probably be hard to keep clean. Eddie

By Howard Hoover on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I can't tell you anything about the transmissions
or the clutches but I can't think of any reason why the chains or sprockets wouldn't hold up unless their just real cheap or poorly made.
Why would they be any different than a motorcycle
chain and sprocket at high speed like on a cafe style bike (crotch rocket)at say 180 mph?

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Dave Berger, all this talk about bearings in axles and then failing- I still don't have the slightest clue where the bearings are and the whole assembly of the axles etc. All I know is that in the ARGO, the axles are attached to the innermost part of the frame and the sprockets are on them to turn the whole thing. What are the inner and outer bearings? I even read the manuel for the ARGO and that didn't help. I do know what a bearing is though, just not where they go and how they go in there.

Oh Ya, if anyone is in the Bruce Penninsula area (Ontario)after tomorrow (midday) give me a shout at (519) 793-4971 or today and tomorrow morning at (647) 223-8511 and let me know where you will be and we can ride.This will likely be the last time for a week or so that I'll have internet acess so everyone have a Merry Christmas or whatever you celebrate and get lots of riding time in- I know I will be tomorrow afternoon!

By oldnatva on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I left racing in the mid 1970s, but already the modified machines were approaching the 100mph mark. I'm sure by the time sanctioned racing ended they were well past it.

The safety rules called for complete chain guards and belt/clutch covers. As long as the chains and drive gear are kept in maintained condition, there shouldn't be a problem with the higher speeds.

Still, at the speeds race machines can attain, driving a skid-steer vehicle is like trying to keep a squirrel under control, so roll cages and restraints are the only way to go.

By Damen T.Hill (Argoss) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well david usally I use it for grunt work, it would pull heavy loads no problem in low gear. It tops out at 35 mph in low and 55 in high gear and thats on dirt, yes it is very squrilly at those speeds even on dry ground. the only thing I have had problems with was the clutch and that was my own fault, was traveling down a dirt road in low gear with the engine wide open, tach hit 14 grand and clutch wound out and blew apart (would have destroyed my hood but it was luckily off the machine because it was beastly hot out and I was vainly trying to keep it cool) thank god it's the orginal.

wouldn't want to take it to a full blown race with out a roll cage. had the thing on three wheels to many times!

I can't wait to finish my scrambler 1000, but it has been put on the proverbal "shelf" for now my drag truck has consumed all my toy money :(. oh well some day they both will be done.


also eddie I have a factory repair manul picture of the ss from behind and the tenu cover is picturedlet me know I will scan you a picture and also if anybody is interested I will post some pictures of 70's accesorys for argos, And if anybody need's diagrams of pretty much any 60's-70's argo part let me know.

damen

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

well sounded as a general question about 6x6 and 8x8 vehicles, i gave my 2.5 cents on vehicle i know about, as for what parts are up to a raceing carear in an argo, im realy not shure,
this will have to wait till an argo racer can chime in with his or her expereance,

By Dave Johnston on Unrecorded Date: Edit

RACING? Racing a 6 or 8 wheel ATV? Good grief...that will definitely put is in the same SPEED category as the 2,3,4, wheel machines.... seems to me to be a good way to ensure we get banned also...
We need to develope the SLOW CAREFUL ATV image for our machines...not the HAUL ASS concept that is killing the 2,3,4, wheel machines...

By barryhh3f on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Racing unstable vehicles is one of the things that killed the ATC. And the current crop of 6X6/8X8 wheelers falls into that category. Our AATVs do not have any suspension. Low pressure tires are not designed for high speed. Running ATCs at speed with them killed a lot of people. If you think finding insurance is hard now, think how hard it would be if you were racing AATVs with suspensions that have no ability to dampen.

By Damen T.Hill (Argoss) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Yes this is ture but, at the same time If we bring racing back it may just cause the rest of the world to start turning its back to 2-4 wheelers and taking interest in 6-8 wheelers, Everybody I meet loves my 6x6's, and also asks me if the white one is the same as the one from the banna splits It is the same type. And even on a few accaisons I have referred some possible buyers to our local argo dealer ( by local I mean a two hour drive away). I just don't see why we arn't as popular as the 2-4 wheelers I mean A new argo is about the same price as a quad Or at least they are here.

By P.J. on Unrecorded Date: Edit

barryhh3f is absolutely right.

If you feel the need to compete, it only makes sense to compete at tasks these machines were built for. They aren't built for speed, they are built to go where other machines can't go and do things other machines can't do. Racing through a stretch of mud and water or pulling weights makes a lot more sense than racing on a dirt track. You don't go to a NASCAR race to see lousy mud racing and no-one wants to go to a fast track to see lousy AATV racing. You don't see sled dogs at a greyhound track.

Make them excel at what they do best, not make them look inadequate compared to other types of machines at something they were never intended to do in the first place. Trying to reach new heights and setting new standards of performance for these AATV related activities is what will generate new interest by those not familiar with these machines and drive manufacturers to experiment, innovate and implement.

P.J.

By Damen T.Hill (Argoss) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

the 70's ones were made to do "best" at racing, and I know alot of us would be using 70's aatv's, yes you could easily drop a 2 stroke and a rollbar into a new argo or max and make it a racer just as easy as you could drop a four stroke into a 70's argo, max, attex,Etc... to make it do best at grunt tasks like pulling trail riding, but in my opion a 4 stroke just kills performance which is why I dislike new 6x6s,but thats just my opion, I don't want to start a 2 vs. 4 stroke battle here, even though we all know two strokes rule and four strokes suck.

later

argoss

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

now hold on there, your logic is sick, it is a fact there was plenty of raceing done with 6x6's that proved well they are up to the task, and who says oval tracks are the only raceing enviroments?
a gander at marc stobinki's old navta raceing videos would show you the raceing enviroments vairyed as much as emagination alowed, our vehicles can take any coarse amaginable and thats still an open posability in race coarse design, they can go fast when posable but obsticles and water crossings are welcome in a track design, windy turns and side hills a must,
id like to se a track with choices like short trail to next checkpoint has log crossing and long trail is smoth, this lets operators chouse and opens up the vairyations that make it realy fun to watch, contrary to your unimaginitive view on raceing, just look at the way the old black water race was run, id love to see this one run with 6x6's!

By Attex Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

"They aren't built for speed, they are built to go where other machines can't go and do things other machines can't do."


Maybe you should tell Attex that. They are the ones that put a 45HP 2 stroke engine in mine from the factory.

I would not call my Attex a sled dog, and thats for sure. (even though it's got a sled motor in it) He he he he. It's as stock as can be and the clutch comes in at around 4K (a guess). Not very practical for pulling a pipe trailer around the ranch. But for having fun, thats a different story!!!!!!!!

I say, to each his own. Have fun and be safe.

By oldnatva on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I'm guessing that the nay-sayers weren't around for the races in the 70s and 80s. It's just a suggestion, but get some of the films and watch them; then we'll talk some more.

The reason newer machines are better at low-speed events is because they've borrowed their engines from gardening equipment. I realize the days of the big two-stroke are numbered, but once you open up an old Bigmax, Superchief, or one of the other fire-breathing beasts of the past, I think you'll wish they were still being made, too.

BTW, they also raced three-wheelers at the rallies, and the ATC along with it's clones from the other Japanese companies couldn't keep up. I saw some Japanese machines start races, but don't remember seeing one finish. It was a shame to see the good machines from Sperry, Allsport and Dunecycle banned because they were grouped with the unstable foreign three-wheelers.

By mark harding (Promoza) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

hey attex bob my rim came with a 500cc from the factory Richard told me not to believe the HP that they state it's a little heir all i know is when i bought it had a Max 2 tranny in it with that it would fly way over 40mph but a small hill would stop it cold had no bottom end so now with the rite tranny it has the bottom end just don't go as fast it bites use to love out running quads i do like the the idea of a corse style track it would show what the 6x6 + how the drive handels it i could be the fastest to at getting stuck LOL keep working on a plan sounds fun Mark(Funtothemax)

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

as old vavta has said "get some of the films and watch them; then we'll talk"
richard clark has them here on route6x6 in the route6x6 store,
i also have them,
shur raceing is dangerous, then anything fun would be huh

By Damen T.Hill (Argoss) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

god yes I to know about the small hills and how they just kill me when I got the ss in high gear, goes from 55 to 5 in 5.5 seconds, now as for my scrambler could not tell you how it does on hills, since it does not run, been plauged with the fact that it does not run very well without a motor, seat, gas tank, or all six wheels, and also a junk tranny:( anybody know where I can get a scrambler 1000 tranny at for a cheap price? Or can anybody rebuild it? its just kind of rusty and frozen up and needs new clutch material